Thai Army Has Veto Power Over Key Issues: Robert Amsterdam

[webfact]

THAKSIN'S LAWYER

Army still calls tune in key issues : Amsterdam

Pravit Rojanaphruk

BANGKOK: -- The Yingluck Shinawatra government is not fully in charge of Thailand as the Army has a "veto" power over some key issues - including who will be the Army Chief or what is to be done with the lese majeste laws, said red-shirt movement lawyer Robert Amsterdam yesterday.

Amsterdam is funded by Yingluck's elder brother, convicted and fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

He said General Prayuth Chan-ocha remains the Army Chief despite his role in the April-May 2010 crackdown on mostly red-shirt demonstrators, which demonstrates that the government is not fully in charge.

"The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed.

Amsterdam, who was interviewed by this writer on a pro bono basis for a special video-interview series for prachatai.com on-line newspaper, said the Yingluck government was not going to amend the controversial lese majeste law, as proposed by the Nitirat group of law lecturers, because the government "is a hostage to the Army".

"Anyone with the political knowledge understands that if they touch it, it's a red line… I think it's very important for people who support democracy in this country not to be angry at a party that is a hostage to an Army veto."

Amsterdam criticised both Amnesty International (AI) and the US government for failing to act regarding the twelve or so known lese majeste detainees currently being incarcerated.

He called AI "spineless" and described the US as a force that has until recently been "pro-Army and anti-democratic" in Thailand.

"I think the history of American policy in this country is shameful," said Amsterdam, referring to the US engagement with Thailand during the Cold War and after.

Regarding the perpetrators of the killing of 91 people, mostly red shirts, in April-May 2010, Amsterdam warned that it could take 20 years to identify them - as it did in Argentina - but added that he's confident "these people will be made accountable"

He said the Thai elites must ask themselves why so many poor Thais are upset and decided to demonstrate in 2010.

"The elites have to ask themselves how they could allow people, in this country, to be so disenfranchised that they felt they had no choice but to virtually commit suicide [in front of] the Army to have their rights ratified."

He also said Thai society had to ask why the Army shoots its own citizens every decade or so. "Until we understand what are the drivers [and] why the Army keeps killing its own citizens …,we'll never have peace or reconciliation."

Amsterdam refers to the Democrat Party as "the Army Party", but at the same time urged red shirts to stop calling the now opposition party an insect party, saying it's "dehumanising" to do so. "Whatever they stand accused of, we need to always show that our differences are political."

-- The Nation 2012-02-07

[FOODLOVER]

"Amsterdam is funded by Yingluck's elder brother, convicted and fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra".

How's it smell in sphinkterville, Robbie? Sell your soul lately?

He also said Thai society had to ask why the Army shoots its own citizens every decade or so. "Until we understand what are the drivers [and] why the Army keeps killing its own citizens …,we'll never have peace or reconciliation."

As long as idiots like yourself defend Thaksin and accept funding from the convict and proceed to vocalize your support for the Tourette afflicted it makes your statements such as " Why the army must shoot their own citizens", sound preposterous! When the Army was defending itself against people who threatened the security of the country by threatening to burn down the capital and lob grenades, it is their duty to protect!

[whybother]

"The Yingluck administration is not in charge."

Everyone knows that, RA. Your employer is in charge.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[Reasonableman]

Did Amsterdam only put on all that weight recently? Hope he's enjoying the plush lifestyle, but hey watch those calories and cholesterol levels. Such earnest concern for the welfare of Thailand could have negative stress-related health effects if not managed properly.

[Moruya]

The question here is why anyone should pay any attention to a man who is hired by the opposition to run noise for them.

Mister Amsterdam, when you have a government that is being run by the Shinawatra family, its extended family including the Damapongs, friends and other crony assiciates of your clients, you do not have democracy.

If this sorry collection of paid individuals performed well for the country in a matter, say, similar to Singapore then that could possibly be overlooked. But it doesn't.

If the cabinet had performed from the kick-off, we wouldn't have had all these changes (more cronies) but they screwed up whatever they touched. Flooding and post-flood are still disasters. The heros here were the army.

So in a world with minsiters every 5 minutes you want the defense of the country in the same basket? Another man with Shinawatra DNA? Maybe someone with Zimbabwean roots?

Methinks you and your employers are after the crown jewels Mister Amsterdam

[RubbaJohnny]

Amsterdam

Dope

I rest my clog

[ratcatcher]

The question here is why anyone should pay any attention to a man who is hired by the opposition to run noise for them.

Mister Amsterdam, when you have a government that is being run by the Shinawatra family, its extended family including the Damapongs, friends and other crony assiciates of your clients, you do not have democracy.

If this sorry collection of paid individuals performed well for the country in a matter, say, similar to Singapore then that could possibly be overlooked. But it doesn't.

If the cabinet had performed from the kick-off, we wouldn't have had all these changes (more cronies) but they screwed up whatever they touched. Flooding and post-flood are still disasters. The heros here were the army.

So in a world with minsiters every 5 minutes you want the defense of the country in the same basket? Another man with Shinawatra DNA? Maybe someone with Zimbabwean roots?

Methinks you and your employers are after the crown jewels Mister Amsterdam

Yiour last line says so little yet speaks volumes.

[geriatrickid]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

[scorecard]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

Personally I'm quite happy that, right now, their is a 'relief valve' in the picture.

[whybother]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

"HE wished Prayuth could be removed". Is RA "the government"?

I agree that the army would probably step in if the government started shuffling the military leaders to put Thaksin cronies and relatives in control.

The government doesn't need its people in control of the army to run and administer the country.

[Reasonableman]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

You may be right, and then there's nepotism and cronyism, let's not forget those. Or do they fall within the definition of corruption in your book? VERY widespread in LOS, don't you agree?

[DP25]

Regarding the perpetrators of the killing of 91 people, mostly red shirts, in April-May 2010, Amsterdam warned that it could take 20 years to identify them - as it did in Argentina - but added that he's confident "these people will be made accountable"

Don't worry, Thaksin will be held accountable some day. Will be a sad day for the bloodsuckers hanging off of him. Not easy for a parasite to find such a juicy host these days

[FOODLOVER]

He is paid by the Shinawatras so he can be discussed as his motives are tainted. With this association he has gained wealth as well as another chin, so is fair game.

[MikeOboe57]

[...]

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

Mr. Amsterdam had no clue about Russia when he tried to paint his client Mikhail Khodorkovsky as a fighter for democratic change when Wladimir Putin nailed him for plundering the country's resources. This provided Mr. Khodorkovsky with some extra years in a nice Russian jail.

He also has no clue about Thailand, which he clearly proved in all his previous statements as a paid Thaksin lobbyist.

[SomTumTiger]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

I agree with that statement.

[Reasonableman]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

I agree with that statement.

Well, that makes it conclusive, then. Do you have any reasons underlying this belief? Would anyone care to address the issues of nepotism and cronyism, or are they verboten topics when we talk about corruption?

[longway]

If the PT were not so corrupt and inept, and did not achieve their mandate based on deceptions, they would have all the authority they need to reform the army and the LM laws,

Edited February 7, 2012 by longway

[KKvampire]

So Amsterdam was banned from Thailand until his convicted boss's sibling was "puppeted in" and now he can say what he wants inside the country , Only in crazy thailand

Edited February 7, 2012 by KKvampire

[KKvampire]

I agree with the statement "The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge". "in charge" but lacking the ability to administer, couldnt run a "P**s up in a brewery"

Edited February 7, 2012 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[CalgaryII]

Amsterdam is funded by Yingluck's elder brother, convicted and fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra".

How's it smell in sphinkterville, Robbie? Sell your soul lately?

Perhaps it would be more fruitful to focus on the message instead of the messenger, esp[ecially when in this case Judiciaql actions following the coup are subject to serious scrutiny regarding validity.

When the Army was defending itself against people who threatened the security of the country by threatening to burn down the capital and lob grenades, it is their duty to protect!

Political negotiation would have solved everything. Even after the protesters were trying to be ignored out of existence

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

[CalgaryII]

Did Amsterdam only put on all that weight recently? Hope he's enjoying the plush lifestyle, but hey watch those calories and cholesterol levels. Such earnest concern for the welfare of Thailand could have negative stress-related health effects if not managed properly.

But what about what he said?

[whybother]

<snip>

Most people regard the feeble efforts of "fightback" by the demonstrators against the coup perps as fully justified - not anti-social, not anarchic - but fully justified when confronting the force assertions from the coup perps. trying to enforce their undemocratic power grab.

The 2010 protests were not against the coup. They were against the court's decision to seize Thaksin's assets.

[Reasonableman]

Did Amsterdam only put on all that weight recently? Hope he's enjoying the plush lifestyle, but hey watch those calories and cholesterol levels. Such earnest concern for the welfare of Thailand could have negative stress-related health effects if not managed properly.

But what about what he said?

Please, have you no concern for the well-being of your fellow human bean?

He said what he was told to say, that's a paid lawyer's job. Hey, is it time for some lawyer jokes?

[samran]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

Paying lipservice to democratic ideals and transparency when it convienently suits. Nothing more.

[CalgaryII]

The question here is why anyone should pay any attention to a man who is hired by the opposition to run noise for them.

Mister Amsterdam, when you have a government that is being run by the Shinawatra family, its extended family including the Damapongs, friends and other crony assiciates of your clients, you do not have democracy.

If this sorry collection of paid individuals performed well for the country in a matter, say, similar to Singapore then that could possibly be overlooked. But it doesn't.

If the cabinet had performed from the kick-off, we wouldn't have had all these changes (more cronies) but they screwed up whatever they touched. Flooding and post-flood are still disasters. The heros here were the army.

So in a world with minsiters every 5 minutes you want the defense of the country in the same basket? Another man with Shinawatra DNA? Maybe someone with Zimbabwean roots?

Methinks you and your employers are after the crown jewels Mister Amsterdam

• Like him or not, he represents the views of a huge electoral block in the country, those responsible for electing Ms. Y. and co. That is why one should pay attention.
  
• In spite of all the electoral faults of Thailand, this Govt. was elected, and is Democratic as a result. For Thailand, this is pretty good.
  
• This collection of individuals were elected in as fair an election as Thailand can muster.
  
• Political appointees after an election are not cronies, but appointees by those who were elected by the people. Next time Abhi. and Co. win an election, they will also appoint people of their own kind - not cronies.
  
• But those "crown jewels" won an election and were the choice to govern thailand by a majority of the governed.
  
• How the flood was handled was exemplary when compared to how other nations and leaders handled their disasters. Whenever one is inclined to criticise this Govts. handling of the flood disaster, I always ask the question, "which nation and leader did better?' I have never received an answer to that question.
  

Edited February 7, 2012 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[CalgaryII]

Amsterdam

Dope

I rest my clog

But what about what he saId?

[samran]

Whenever one is inclined to criticise this Govts. handling of the flood disaster, I always ask the question, "which nation and leader did better?' I have never received an answer to that question.

Here's one:

Anna Bligh. Premier of Queensland. Jan 2011.

Edited February 7, 2012 by metisdead

[CalgaryII]

Rather than discuss Mr. Amsterdam, how about some attention be given to his statement. Do people agree or disagree with this;

The Yingluck administration is not fully in charge of this country. We all know it. We all know the Army has a veto over what happens here. Let's not pretend. And therefore I understand that were this government to [sack General Prayuth], it would be removed militarily without hesitation," he said. Nevertheless he wished Prayuth could be removed

I agree with him. The military is still calling the plays and that is why there cannot be any progress on key issues such as corruption.

Personally I'm quite happy that, right now, their is a 'relief valve' in the picture.

Undemocratic as it might be.

Representational Democracy means representing the electorates choices and respecting them.

To give a veto to unelected entities denigrates elected entities and the voters, the majority in the country.

[CalgaryII]

He is paid by the Shinawatras so he can be discussed as his motives are tainted. With this association he has gained wealth as well as another chin, so is fair game.

But what about what he said?

[FOODLOVER]

Did Amsterdam only put on all that weight recently? Hope he's enjoying the plush lifestyle, but hey watch those calories and cholesterol levels. Such earnest concern for the welfare of Thailand could have negative stress-related health effects if not managed properly.

But what about what he said?

Please, have you no concern for the well-being of your fellow human bean?

He said what he was told to say, that's a paid lawyer's job. Hey, is it time for some lawyer jokes?

Customer: Waiter, what do you call this soup?

Waiter: It’s bean soup, sir.

Customer: I don’t care what it’s been. What is it now?

Edited February 7, 2012 by FOODLOVER