Thailand's Thaksin Prepares For War

[CalgaryII]

Given how many times he's spouted about coups. My money is on Jattuporn being the source of this articles info.

Expect that 'spouting off" to continue.

The coup-ists will be closely watched.

[Mosha]

300 Baht to vote helped

Edited February 18, 2012 by Mosha

[CalgaryII]

300 Baht to vote helped

Demonizing wholesale, those who elected the Govt. is very disrespectful of that vote.

Every one knows the scourge of vote-buying exists in Thailand. But Oppositional holier-than-thou insinuations that it is other people doing it, doesn't fly.

The fact vote-buying prevailed on all sides, one could argue persuasively that even without it, the results would have been the same.

[MAJIC]

majic, #117

Of course the view that "Yingluck is in the dark" "is not shared by a Majority of the Electorate" that's because they are all living on the same Mushroom Farm,on cloud cuckoo land!

I have been quite impressed with the Thai electorate.

I recall the no-holds barred assault during Samak's election campaign by the Opposition media.

Likewise during Ms. Y's election campaign.

Yet the electorate saw through this smoke and conducted themselves much differently than the Opposition media expected.

Impressed the hell out of me.

I guess you are easily impressed.

[scorecard]

Always scare when a country feels a need to have pro-government demonstrations when there are no anti-government demonstrations going on.

Clearly this is the path to reconciliation.

BTW, a humongous rally is planned for Bonanza in Khao Yai this Saturday.

So that begs the question posed by Nisa......Why?

Here is my take on it.

There may be no overt anti-government demonstrations, but that doesn't mean there is no energetic anti-govt. agenda being spun out by the Opposition covertly.

What are some of the indicators of that? I can think of several:

1. The steady parade by the Opposition to the Judges. This is not intended to be Oppositional in the same sense as would Parliamentary opposition. This is intended to detonate some of the coup-bomblets built into the constitution by the coup-ists
   
2. The pressures on this Govt. by its electoral base, preventing them from reneging on Constitutional reform in the face of Opposition intimidation, both overtly and covertly, is because these people see it as an existential threat to the Government they elected. They are not about to do another 2006.
   
3. The enforced separation of Oppositional armed institutions from Government control, as explained by Amsterdam recently, is another slippery slope this Govt. finds itself on.
   
4. The warnings by UDD/RS leaders of Coup threats are not made idly. They have substance behind them.
   
5. Why this humongous rally this Saturday? Because the UDD/RS see fit to demonstrate that they are a political force to be reckoned with, as a message to coup plotters. A message focussed on consequences
   

Those are the five reasons top-of-mind to that questpinion posed by Nisa. I am sure there are more.

Spoken like a true spin professional. Nothing more than a troll trying to cunjur up a certain image, a certain perception. Troll and nothing more.

[Macmundi]

The creation of this so-called War Room, now that it is already in the news and practically in front of Yingluck's face. Can she still deny knowledge of this activity? Does he take the whole country to be idiots?

[scorecard]

300 Baht to vote helped

Demonizing wholesale, those who elected the Govt. is very disrespectful of that vote.

Every one knows the scourge of vote-buying exists in Thailand. But Oppositional holier-than-thou insinuations that it is other people doing it, doesn't fly.

The fact vote-buying prevailed on all sides, one could argue persuasively that even without it, the results would have been the same.

More attempts at trying to spin the whole situation.

Sure everybody knows there's vote buying all round - that's well known, it's old news.

It's also true that some parties engage in much more than wholesale vote buying, more like mass manipulation of lots of very naive folks, who should be respected and not used.

CalgaryII, you can convine a few naive folks, but you can't fool everybody all of the time.

Just a troll and a spinner , nothing more, nothing less.

[CalgaryII]

An afterthought to Post #113 above (Edit option had expired)

A Poster asked why there are continuing Pro-Government Red Shirt rallies, in the absence of anti-Govt rallies.

Given the above discussion about rallies, and my reference to a humongous one planned for next Saturday.

It has just come to my attention that a very, very large one is going on in Khon Kean as I write this.

We drove to Khon Kean today for other business, and drove through a community also hosting a significant Red Shirt Rally.

So that makes three specific ones as we speak.

The Opposition must know that this political movement is not fading in the least, and is intending to hold this Governments "feet to the fire" in the face of the forces arrayed against them.

Edited February 18, 2012 by CalgaryII

[CalgaryII]

majic, #117

Of course the view that "Yingluck is in the dark" "is not shared by a Majority of the Electorate" that's because they are all living on the same Mushroom Farm,on cloud cuckoo land!

I have been quite impressed with the Thai electorate.

I recall the no-holds barred assault during Samak's election campaign by the Opposition media.

Likewise during Ms. Y's election campaign.

Yet the electorate saw through this smoke and conducted themselves much differently than the Opposition media expected.

Impressed the hell out of me.

I guess you are easily impressed.

Perhaps.

[scorecard]

majic, #117

Of course the view that "Yingluck is in the dark" "is not shared by a Majority of the Electorate" that's because they are all living on the same Mushroom Farm,on cloud cuckoo land!

I have been quite impressed with the Thai electorate.

I recall the no-holds barred assault during Samak's election campaign by the Opposition media.

Likewise during Ms. Y's election campaign.

Yet the electorate saw through this smoke and conducted themselves much differently than the Opposition media expected.

Impressed the hell out of me.

I guess you are easily impressed.

Easily impressed, easily fooled perhaps more to the point.

Not that it really matters because you are nothng more than a troll.

[CalgaryII]

scorecard, #125

Spoken like a true spin professional. Nothing more than a troll trying to cunjur up a certain image, a certain perception. Troll and nothing more

.

Disagreement with an expressed opinion, does not a troll make.

[scorecard]

ianf, #37

Do some people have no idea at all about what the red movement represents? Such naievity is astounding! The reds fought for democracy. Really? Do we now have a democratic government in Thailand? I am sorry chaps, this is about anti-democracy and the struggle of one man to become the supreme dictator. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Count me as one of the people who have a very good idea of what the Red Shirt Movement represents.

Given my grizzled no-nonsense perceptiveness, not many who know me, would consider my naiive as ianf would seek to characterize me..

The comments above are strongly indicative that the author has had little, if any, meaningful interaction with the Red Shirts. His take is perfectly aligned with the anti-Red Shirt Opposition agenda. That agenda being one of demonizing these people by reducing their political motivations to a simplified non-political context....focussed on what the author describes above, devoid of political insight.

This is grossly offensive to these people, and is the height of arrogance as represented by the elite, pinnacled by Abhi, who couldn't get elected of his life depended on it.

Without belabouring the point, suffice it to say that this Political Movement came into being as an oppositional movement to a coup. A political motivation if there ever was one. As much as the coup-ists beat on them until the last election, they held true to their goal.

They achieved it last July.

Nothing more, nothing less, and also not very complicated.

You say ....Count me as one of the people who have a very good idea of what the Red Shirt Movement represents. ....

So why don't you enlighten us, and explain why they have never produced any literature whatever which explains the true meaning of democracy, and why none of their leaders, including the paymaster have never given a stand up presentation about this subject, and share just when did the paymaster flip from his oft mentioed ''' I have no interest in democracy / democracy is not important for Thailand ''' backed up by gagging and harrassing the media. Just for a start.

Perhaps you'd like to also enlighten us about what the red shirts are going to do, in some structured way to build pure quality democarcy and also share what their structured approach is to stopping abuse of fair and balanced application of the law. Perhaps evn by the paymaster setting an example and allowing the courts to procees? And please don't say again a whole lot of untruthful spin about 'all politically motivated'.

And yes their is deep inequity in this country, the poor / the rural poor have a tough time and get little respect from their own who have found their way to the feeding trough. They deserve better, so what is their structured strategy to achieve change. You claim to have access to these folks, why not share all of the above, maybe we might all learn something.

Or, is it a secret? Or, is there in fact no substance, meaning that your just a troll?

Waiting.

Edited February 18, 2012 by scorecard

[Mosha]

FWIW my wife did vote for Thaksin once. Then she realised helping the poor did not include the South. I admit she has accepted payment for village elections. She tells me she has never been offered money to vote in a general election. All I ask of her when she votes is to do what she thinks is right, and not what someone tells her is right. Also in this village the booths are closed and no one tells people where the X goes.

[CalgaryII]

300 Baht to vote helped

Demonizing wholesale, those who elected the Govt. is very disrespectful of that vote.

Every one knows the scourge of vote-buying exists in Thailand. But Oppositional holier-than-thou insinuations that it is other people doing it, doesn't fly.

The fact vote-buying prevailed on all sides, one could argue persuasively that even without it, the results would have been the same.

More attempts at trying to spin the whole situation.

Sure everybody knows there's vote buying all round - that's well known, it's old news.

It's also true that some parties engage in much more than wholesale vote buying, more like mass manipulation of lots of very naive folks, who should be respected and not used.

CalgaryII, you can convine a few naive folks, but you can't fool everybody all of the time.

Just a troll and a spinner , nothing more, nothing less.

Disagreement with an expressed opinion does not only exclude being a troll, but also 'spinning' a perspective.

It is opinion, supported by rationale.

The notion advanced by the Opposition that political entities other than themselves engage in vote-buying to a greater degree than they do, is only accepted by their own kind who want to believe such a thing as a way of diminishing their electoral embarrasment..

Those who accept my opinions are not naiive, and are not individuals subject to fooling.

A tad disrespectful of many who participate in this website.

[CalgaryII]

majic, #117

Of course the view that "Yingluck is in the dark" "is not shared by a Majority of the Electorate" that's because they are all living on the same Mushroom Farm,on cloud cuckoo land!

I have been quite impressed with the Thai electorate.

I recall the no-holds barred assault during Samak's election campaign by the Opposition media.

Likewise during Ms. Y's election campaign.

Yet the electorate saw through this smoke and conducted themselves much differently than the Opposition media expected.

Impressed the hell out of me.

I guess you are easily impressed.

Easily impressed, easily fooled perhaps more to the point.

Not that it really matters because you are nothng more than a troll.

Somebody who disagrees with scorecard is a troll.

Allright,

[ricku]

Anyone else getting the feeling that this country will never be truly stable?

Seems that the scheming and plotting will never end.

Too many greedy and power hungry retards thinking about their own interests instead of what is good for the country.

Edited February 18, 2012 by ricku

[CalgaryII]

ianf, #37

Do some people have no idea at all about what the red movement represents? Such naievity is astounding! The reds fought for democracy. Really? Do we now have a democratic government in Thailand? I am sorry chaps, this is about anti-democracy and the struggle of one man to become the supreme dictator. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Count me as one of the people who have a very good idea of what the Red Shirt Movement represents.

Given my grizzled no-nonsense perceptiveness, not many who know me, would consider my naiive as ianf would seek to characterize me..

The comments above are strongly indicative that the author has had little, if any, meaningful interaction with the Red Shirts. His take is perfectly aligned with the anti-Red Shirt Opposition agenda. That agenda being one of demonizing these people by reducing their political motivations to a simplified non-political context....focussed on what the author describes above, devoid of political insight.

This is grossly offensive to these people, and is the height of arrogance as represented by the elite, pinnacled by Abhi, who couldn't get elected of his life depended on it.

Without belabouring the point, suffice it to say that this Political Movement came into being as an oppositional movement to a coup. A political motivation if there ever was one. As much as the coup-ists beat on them until the last election, they held true to their goal.

They achieved it last July.

Nothing more, nothing less, and also not very complicated.

You say ....Count me as one of the people who have a very good idea of what the Red Shirt Movement represents. ....

So why don't you enlighten us, and explain why they have never produced any literature whatever which explains the true meaning of democracy, and why none of their leaders, including the paymaster have never given a stand up presentation about this subject, and share just when did the paymaster flip from his oft mentioed ''' I have no interest in democracy / democracy is not important for Thailand ''' backed up by gagging and harrassing the media. Just for a start.

Perhaps you'd like to also enlighten us about what the red shirts are going to do, in some structured way to build pure quality democarcy and also share what their structured approach is to stopping abuse of fair and balanced application of the law.

And yes their is deep inequity in this country, the poor / the rural poor have a tough time and get little respect from their own who have found their way to the feeding trough. They deserve better, so what is their structured strategy to achieve change. You claim to have access to these folks, why not share all of the above, maybe we might all learn something.

Or, is it a secret? Or, is there in fact no substance, meaning that your just a troll?

Waiting.

Conjure up a country that has a perfect Government?

That is what a Red Shirt Government looks like

[Skywalker69]

Another conspiracy theory spun out of some innocuous decision to perhaps have a new canteen for defense ministry staff.

He want total power.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/4293-thaksin-democracy-is-not-my-goal/

[ianf]

An afterthought to Post #113 above (Edit option had expired)

A Poster asked why there are continuing Pro-Government Red Shirt rallies, in the absence of anti-Govt rallies.

Given the above discussion about rallies, and my reference to a humongous one planned for next Saturday.

It has just come to my attention that a very, very large one is going on in Khon Kean as I write this.

We drove to Khon Kean today for other business, and drove through a community also hosting a significant Red Shirt Rally.

So that makes three specific ones as we speak.

The Opposition must know that this political movement is not fading in the least, and is intending to hold this Governments "feet to the fire" in the face of the forces arrayed against them.

What forces?

[scorecard]

scorecard, #125

Spoken like a true spin professional. Nothing more than a troll trying to cunjur up a certain image, a certain perception. Troll and nothing more

.

Disagreement with an expressed opinion, does not a troll make.

That's just your opinion.

I disagee, I believe you are a troll and I'm entitled to my opinion.

[scorecard]

majic, #117

Of course the view that "Yingluck is in the dark" "is not shared by a Majority of the Electorate" that's because they are all living on the same Mushroom Farm,on cloud cuckoo land!

I have been quite impressed with the Thai electorate.

I recall the no-holds barred assault during Samak's election campaign by the Opposition media.

Likewise during Ms. Y's election campaign.

Yet the electorate saw through this smoke and conducted themselves much differently than the Opposition media expected.

Impressed the hell out of me.

I guess you are easily impressed.

Easily impressed, easily fooled perhaps more to the point.

Not that it really matters because you are nothng more than a troll.

Somebody who disagrees with scorecard is a troll.

Allright,

Up to other people to have their own opinion.

I believe you are a troll. Prove me wrong, give some structured non spin answers to some of the points made by posters who disagree with you.

You engage only in comment which is designed to build a certain perception. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Skywalker69]

Isn't Yingluck kept in the dark about everything? Plausible deniability - except it usually lacks the plausibility.

I presume she doesn't read Thai Visa . . .

If she read english the same way she talk english, I can understand she don´t login to TV.

[scorecard]

300 Baht to vote helped

Demonizing wholesale, those who elected the Govt. is very disrespectful of that vote.

Every one knows the scourge of vote-buying exists in Thailand. But Oppositional holier-than-thou insinuations that it is other people doing it, doesn't fly.

The fact vote-buying prevailed on all sides, one could argue persuasively that even without it, the results would have been the same.

More attempts at trying to spin the whole situation.

Sure everybody knows there's vote buying all round - that's well known, it's old news.

It's also true that some parties engage in much more than wholesale vote buying, more like mass manipulation of lots of very naive folks, who should be respected and not used.

CalgaryII, you can convine a few naive folks, but you can't fool everybody all of the time.

Just a troll and a spinner , nothing more, nothing less.

Disagreement with an expressed opinion does not only exclude being a troll, but also 'spinning' a perspective.

It is opinion, supported by rationale.

The notion advanced by the Opposition that political entities other than themselves engage in vote-buying to a greater degree than they do, is only accepted by their own kind who want to believe such a thing as a way of diminishing their electoral embarrasment..

Those who accept my opinions are not naiive, and are not individuals subject to fooling.

A tad disrespectful of many who participate in this website.

So people should not disagree with you because it's disrespectful to some tv members.

I have every right to express my opinion whether you or any other tv members disagree or not.

This is just your veiled attempt at gagging.

[Orac]

An afterthought to Post #113 above (Edit option had expired)

A Poster asked why there are continuing Pro-Government Red Shirt rallies, in the absence of anti-Govt rallies.

Given the above discussion about rallies, and my reference to a humongous one planned for next Saturday.

It has just come to my attention that a very, very large one is going on in Khon Kean as I write this.

We drove to Khon Kean today for other business, and drove through a community also hosting a significant Red Shirt Rally.

So that makes three specific ones as we speak.

The Opposition must know that this political movement is not fading in the least, and is intending to hold this Governments "feet to the fire" in the face of the forces arrayed against them.

What forces?

According to the OP and its unnamed sources the forces are within the military but I assume it is also refering to some of the other non-elected establishment bodies. Apparently, according to the OP, the elected government has some laughable idea that the country should be run by them and the military should be answerable to them as in virtually every functioning democracy I can think of.The military, on the other hand do not appear to want to relinquish control to the government which effectively means that a huge part of the apparatus of state sits outside the control of the government as it does in such bastions of democracy as Iran.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Orac

[ianf]

Calgaryll is well known as one of the few posters here who blindly supports Thaksin and his red movement. Well that's up to him. I have discussed these issues with ardent red shirts, I have also been involved in democratic politics since the age of 15, that's 45 years of thinking and occasionally working within the political arena/human rights field. I am also interested in the psychology of political movements. Whatever fine words and posturing Calgaryll and his ilk wish to take, they cannot convince me that the red movement is not akin to the 700,000 souls who blindly followed Mussolini enabling him to take power. Any study of Wilhelm Reich's Mass Psychology of Fascism and indeed Hitler's Mein Kampf draws inevitable parallels between what is happening here in Thailand and what has gone on in other countries besmirched by brutal dictatorships. Part of the approach is twisting facts as we have seen RA and the red leadership do so adeptly over the past few months. And we are not talking about just twisting facts to score a political point, we're talking here about lying to a great body of decent working people who are easily manipulated through the use of tactics described by both Hitler and Reich. Quite frankly Thaksin, Amsterdam, their reds and their very few farang supporters on Thai Visa scare me to death. Wake up guys before it is too late. This is a very very dangerous movement. I could write a page or two debunking Calgaryll's post but that is an utter waste of time as I believe that most decent people can see what prejudices lie behind his words.

Edited February 18, 2012 by ianf

[Mosha]

Where is the ignore button, I know it's a symbolic act as he'll be quoted.

[scorecard]

ianf, #37

Do some people have no idea at all about what the red movement represents? Such naievity is astounding! The reds fought for democracy. Really? Do we now have a democratic government in Thailand? I am sorry chaps, this is about anti-democracy and the struggle of one man to become the supreme dictator. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Count me as one of the people who have a very good idea of what the Red Shirt Movement represents.

Given my grizzled no-nonsense perceptiveness, not many who know me, would consider my naiive as ianf would seek to characterize me..

The comments above are strongly indicative that the author has had little, if any, meaningful interaction with the Red Shirts. His take is perfectly aligned with the anti-Red Shirt Opposition agenda. That agenda being one of demonizing these people by reducing their political motivations to a simplified non-political context....focussed on what the author describes above, devoid of political insight.

This is grossly offensive to these people, and is the height of arrogance as represented by the elite, pinnacled by Abhi, who couldn't get elected of his life depended on it.

Without belabouring the point, suffice it to say that this Political Movement came into being as an oppositional movement to a coup. A political motivation if there ever was one. As much as the coup-ists beat on them until the last election, they held true to their goal.

They achieved it last July.

Nothing more, nothing less, and also not very complicated.

You say ....Count me as one of the people who have a very good idea of what the Red Shirt Movement represents. ....

So why don't you enlighten us, and explain why they have never produced any literature whatever which explains the true meaning of democracy, and why none of their leaders, including the paymaster have never given a stand up presentation about this subject, and share just when did the paymaster flip from his oft mentioed ''' I have no interest in democracy / democracy is not important for Thailand ''' backed up by gagging and harrassing the media. Just for a start.

Perhaps you'd like to also enlighten us about what the red shirts are going to do, in some structured way to build pure quality democarcy and also share what their structured approach is to stopping abuse of fair and balanced application of the law.

And yes their is deep inequity in this country, the poor / the rural poor have a tough time and get little respect from their own who have found their way to the feeding trough. They deserve better, so what is their structured strategy to achieve change. You claim to have access to these folks, why not share all of the above, maybe we might all learn something.

Or, is it a secret? Or, is there in fact no substance, meaning that your just a troll?

Waiting.

Conjure up a country that has a perfect Government?

That is what a Red Shirt Government looks like

So you didn't answer my questions, just your usual tactic of diversions.

My questions /comments are very valid and to the point. you claim to have inside knowledge of the red shirt people and their objectives, etc, why not share some answers and help them to spread a structured insightful message.

Or maybe you can't, or maybe in fact there are no real structured answers, so you just continue to give diversions.

[Tanaka]

I just seriously don't get this. Why are the journo's giving this criminal any media attention at all. What is this guy doing giving orders and stating that Thailands PM must be kept in the dark? He seems to be doing a practice run for the position he ultimately wants. The media is allowing this man to become self appointed President!!! He needs stopping/silencing quickly.

Agreed. This terrorist is the basic problem in Thailands politics and cause of disturbances. It would be great for this country and its people if he would be terminated asap. Then, maybe, the country could take a small step forward again. As long as he is alive and allowed to influence Thailand, it can never move forward.

[scorecard]

An afterthought to Post #113 above (Edit option had expired)

A Poster asked why there are continuing Pro-Government Red Shirt rallies, in the absence of anti-Govt rallies.

Given the above discussion about rallies, and my reference to a humongous one planned for next Saturday.

It has just come to my attention that a very, very large one is going on in Khon Kean as I write this.

We drove to Khon Kean today for other business, and drove through a community also hosting a significant Red Shirt Rally.

So that makes three specific ones as we speak.

The Opposition must know that this political movement is not fading in the least, and is intending to hold this Governments "feet to the fire" in the face of the forces arrayed against them.

What forces?

More spin.

[OzMick]

Where is the ignore button, I know it's a symbolic act as he'll be quoted.

Use it on the troll Canuck and half the posts on the thread disappear. Now if we could only persuade others not to bite.