phiphidon Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I questioned your post that implied that the deadline was unrealistic on the basis that, without the technical knowledge you were speculating; at least we are now in agreement that you merely doubt that it can be done. Yes ... I don't believe in miracles. Oh come on Whybother, why not just admit it, you saw a chance to bash the government with a stick and took it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Right on, let's not waste time on this topic. Let's get back to the more worthy pursuit of petty bickering. I questioned your post that implied that the deadline was unrealistic on the basis that, without the technical knowledge you were speculating; at least we are now in agreement that you merely doubt that it can be done. Yes ... I don't believe in miracles. Oh come on Whybother, why not just admit it, you saw a chance to bash the government with a stick and took it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Oh come on Whybother, why not just admit it, you saw a chance to bash the government with a stick and took it. I see too many chances to comment on all of them. I thought this one was obvious. Just the rigmarole of deciding where to do the planting and getting agreement (who gets paid what) from all the associated parties will take 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbk Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Right on, let's not waste time on this topic. Let's get back to the more worthy pursuit of petty bickering. I questioned your post that implied that the deadline was unrealistic on the basis that, without the technical knowledge you were speculating; at least we are now in agreement that you merely doubt that it can be done. Yes ... I don't believe in miracles. Oh come on Whybother, why not just admit it, you saw a chance to bash the government with a stick and took it. Indeed, lets drop the petty off topic bickering. It really is unnecessary and pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Right on, let's not waste time on this topic. Let's get back to the more worthy pursuit of petty bickering. I questioned your post that implied that the deadline was unrealistic on the basis that, without the technical knowledge you were speculating; at least we are now in agreement that you merely doubt that it can be done. Yes ... I don't believe in miracles. Oh come on Whybother, why not just admit it, you saw a chance to bash the government with a stick and took it. If I ask politely, may I join the fray? The idea and initiative of planting trees is good. Even when not aimed at flood prevention, it's still a good idea. A bit of greenery around human habitats makes people feel somewhat better. As for planting trees to avoid floods. Now that's a more complicated issue. Location, area preparation, type of trees / mix of trees, shepherds for the trees. Oh, where is Fangorn when you need him? Edited February 26, 2012 by rubl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) It seems to me the apparatus to coordinate tree-planting events already exists, with local government, temples, civil society, private industry. It just needs the will to make it happen, by acting locally. Planting a tree. Maybe we are overthinking ourselves into inaction. Edited February 26, 2012 by Reasonableman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I questioned your post that implied that the deadline was unrealistic on the basis that, without the technical knowledge you were speculating; at least we are now in agreement that you merely doubt that it can be done. Yes ... I don't believe in miracles. Oh come on Whybother, why not just admit it, you saw a chance to bash the government with a stick and took it. Can't help but add that after about 1 1/2 pages of reading, your post had me on the floor. As for the stick, I think it was actually, 1/1,000,000th of the government's allocation for reforestation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 If it was a green stick, so stick it in the bleedin' ground! I questioned your post that implied that the deadline was unrealistic on the basis that, without the technical knowledge you were speculating; at least we are now in agreement that you merely doubt that it can be done. Yes ... I don't believe in miracles. Oh come on Whybother, why not just admit it, you saw a chance to bash the government with a stick and took it. Can't help but add that after about 1 1/2 pages of reading, your post had me on the floor. As for the stick, I think it was actually, 1/1,000,000th of the government's allocation for reforestation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I questioned your post that implied that the deadline was unrealistic on the basis that, without the technical knowledge you were speculating; at least we are now in agreement that you merely doubt that it can be done. Yes ... I don't believe in miracles. Oh come on Whybother, why not just admit it, you saw a chance to bash the government with a stick and took it. Can't help but add that after about 1 1/2 pages of reading, your post had me on the floor. As for the stick, I think it was actually, 1/1,000,000th of the government's allocation for reforestation... Did you miss the "saw" part - see what I did there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) It seems to me the apparatus to coordinate tree-planting events already exists, with local government, temples, civil society, private industry. It just needs the will to make it happen, by acting locally. Planting a tree. Maybe we are overthinking ourselves into inaction. I think that you are right. With just a little bit of coordination, it could involve the locals and get a lot done quickly. Getting locals who can help with the work allows them to do something to help solve a problem that everyone recognizes is important for the country (pride), raises awareness (at least a little bit), and puts some money in the hands of people who could probably use it. Edited February 26, 2012 by tombkk Double quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlansford Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) - sniper - Yes ... I don't believe in miracles. Oh come on Whybother, why not just admit it, you saw a chance to bash the government with a stick and took it. Can't help but add that after about 1 1/2 pages of reading, your post had me on the floor. As for the stick, I think it was actually, 1/1,000,000th of the government's allocation for reforestation... Did you miss the "saw" part - see what I did there nah, couldn't see that one from the floor. (edit : ps to Whybother, thank you for your posts. 3 months is not a lot of time, especially seeing how often things get gummed up. But it is a target, and maybe even one that they hit.) Edited February 26, 2012 by tlansford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikster Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 This country would be a much better place if the politicians just did what HM tells them to. He also said to stop the burning of forests in the north, which is a major health hazard every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimamey Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 H.M The King has a lot of wise words, but I see the ministers and most people in government as naughty children who simply pay lip service, once they are out of the room they carry on as normal. Almost as though they never heard the words in the first place. Greed and corruption, nepotism and self interests seem to dominate the day. I'm inclined to agree. This may not be the total solution but I'm sure it would be a very good start. Then again we are talking about HM The King and I'm fairly sure flood management isn't part of his job description. I wonder if he every thinks what's the point of these people if I have to tell them how to deal with these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 It seems to me the apparatus to coordinate tree-planting events already exists, with local government, temples, civil society, private industry. It just needs the will to make it happen, by acting locally. Planting a tree. Maybe we are overthinking ourselves into inaction. The absolutely best way to carry this out is through the agricultural extension departments belonging to the agricultural companies. They have all the necessary infrastructure to get everything needed into the countryside already. The truck contracts are there, the warehouses are there, the fertilisers are there if needed. I undertook tree planting projects in a previous job. Very successful, but didn't lead to huge tracts of arable land being turned over to trees. Now, where to find all this open area to put trees into, because not too many trees grow particularly well in rice paddies. As far as I understand, the topography of the land going North of Ayyuthaya is pretty much flat paddy land that is used in large amount for rice production. The floods are on the flatland, the flatland is already used for rice. There is little or no agriculture on the higher land in this area, and they are more densely forested anyway, so who is going to volunteer to give up their productive rice land to plant trees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 It seems to me the apparatus to coordinate tree-planting events already exists, with local government, temples, civil society, private industry. It just needs the will to make it happen, by acting locally. Planting a tree. Maybe we are overthinking ourselves into inaction. The absolutely best way to carry this out is through the agricultural extension departments belonging to the agricultural companies. They have all the necessary infrastructure to get everything needed into the countryside already. The truck contracts are there, the warehouses are there, the fertilisers are there if needed. I undertook tree planting projects in a previous job. Very successful, but didn't lead to huge tracts of arable land being turned over to trees. Now, where to find all this open area to put trees into, because not too many trees grow particularly well in rice paddies. As far as I understand, the topography of the land going North of Ayyuthaya is pretty much flat paddy land that is used in large amount for rice production. The floods are on the flatland, the flatland is already used for rice. There is little or no agriculture on the higher land in this area, and they are more densely forested anyway, so who is going to volunteer to give up their productive rice land to plant trees? It appears that 1.5 million rai have already been identified for flood dissipation. Could the owners of this land help, or would trees in this area cause more problems that they solve, by inhibiting water flow out of the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 It seems to me the apparatus to coordinate tree-planting events already exists, with local government, temples, civil society, private industry. It just needs the will to make it happen, by acting locally. Planting a tree. Maybe we are overthinking ourselves into inaction. The absolutely best way to carry this out is through the agricultural extension departments belonging to the agricultural companies. They have all the necessary infrastructure to get everything needed into the countryside already. The truck contracts are there, the warehouses are there, the fertilisers are there if needed. I undertook tree planting projects in a previous job. Very successful, but didn't lead to huge tracts of arable land being turned over to trees. Now, where to find all this open area to put trees into, because not too many trees grow particularly well in rice paddies. As far as I understand, the topography of the land going North of Ayyuthaya is pretty much flat paddy land that is used in large amount for rice production. The floods are on the flatland, the flatland is already used for rice. There is little or no agriculture on the higher land in this area, and they are more densely forested anyway, so who is going to volunteer to give up their productive rice land to plant trees? It appears that 1.5 million rai have already been identified for flood dissipation. Could the owners of this land help, or would trees in this area cause more problems that they solve, by inhibiting water flow out of the area? I am no arboreal expert, but I suppose that land could be used to absorb even more water by putting trees in it. But then by definition, it will be used for temporary storage of water in the event of a bad flood, so it is essentially dry land, so what to plant that will prosper in essentially dry land that "may" get inundated once a year. There must be something, but then would it make that much difference. I think the issue is that so much flat land has been deforested and turned into paddy land, and it isn't going to be easy to convince anyone that the best thing to do is that it should be reforested and essentially left fallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yes, this issue needs expert advice. I was more of the impression that it was upland areas that needed reafforestation rather than paddy, since the paddy could be used for water retention and drain-off. But that's only a guess, I'm afraid. Looks like different geographies require different solutions. Do we have an expert in the house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shantaram Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Yes, this issue needs expert advice. I was more of the impression that it was upland areas that needed reafforestation rather than paddy, since the paddy could be used for water retention and drain-off. But that's only a guess, I'm afraid. Looks like different geographies require different solutions. Do we have an expert in the house? It seems there is an overpaid red shirt one lately on TV, but he sounds like couldn't tell a tree from a stump anymore. ;> Edited February 29, 2012 by Shantaram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shantaram Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Israel is one of two Countries that achieved a net gain in trees last century. http://en.wikipedia....i/Tree_planting Whilst this is probably too optimistic in Thailand the government can show some political will in helping arrest deforestation and at least make a start in re-stocking. Such an undertaking has to span several different parliaments so until politicians start thinking in terms of helping their Country instead of themselves nothing will change. On a personal level I know that any Thai citizen who turns up at a forestry commission office with their Tabien Baan papers is eligible to receive some tree saplings for free if they have any to give, but this of course requires the Thai people as a whole to see the issue as important enough for them to go and get the trees and dig holes themselves to plant them in. What the hell has this got to do with Israel? Jeez, talk about tin foil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shantaram Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Funny how the Prime Ministers proposals for reforestation were ridiculed by many, here on TV a couple of weeks ago.................. Obviously HM is correct. It is undeniable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Israel is one of two Countries that achieved a net gain in trees last century. http://en.wikipedia....i/Tree_planting Whilst this is probably too optimistic in Thailand the government can show some political will in helping arrest deforestation and at least make a start in re-stocking. Such an undertaking has to span several different parliaments so until politicians start thinking in terms of helping their Country instead of themselves nothing will change. On a personal level I know that any Thai citizen who turns up at a forestry commission office with their Tabien Baan papers is eligible to receive some tree saplings for free if they have any to give, but this of course requires the Thai people as a whole to see the issue as important enough for them to go and get the trees and dig holes themselves to plant them in. What the hell has this got to do with Israel? Jeez, talk about tin foil! It is not specifically aimed at Israel but the Wiki thread explains that Israel is one of only two countries that grew more trees than were cut down. It also mentions Canada, USA, UK and NZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiascharlie Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 People cut down every tree in sight blanket everything in concrete and then complain about how hot it is . Amazing .Imagine the crops you could pull off trees if people could see the past the end of their nose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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