Thai Govt To Name Flood Catchment Zones

[webfact]

FLOOD PLANS

Govt to name flood catchment zones

Chularat Saengpassa

Pongphon Sarnsamak

Techawat Sukrak

The Nation

Areas will be identified this week; compensation has 'already been discussed'

BANGKOK: -- The government is expected to identify specific areas to be included in the two million rai marked as water-catchments before the end of this week, according to a source at the Royal Irrigation Department.

The source yesterday disclosed that scales for compensation payment had already been discussed.

"For example, we will check how many crop seasons these areas have had each year in the past. The expected incomes of the farmers who have utilised the plots will then be taken into account when we work on compensation amounts," the source said.

To date, the government has offered Bt2,222 per rai of paddy fields ravaged by natural disasters. The amount is about half the actual cost incurred.

"I can assure you that there will be no land expropriation. We will not force people into submitting their land plots for water-retention purposes. We will offer fair compensation," Kijja Pholphasi said yesterday in his capacity as a member of the Strategic Committee for Water Resources Management (SCWRM).

The vast water-catchment areas are part of the government's efforts to prevent flooding this year.

Today, a panel of the SCWRM will convene a meeting to follow up on the progress of short-term measures, including canal dredging and repair of water gates.

Petipong Pungbun Na Ayudhya, a panel member, said dredging of existing canals and improving capacity of existing floodways to drain water and reduce flood risk were among the urgent measures to be completed before the upcoming rainy season in the next four months.

Natural waterways should be mainly used as floodways in water and flood management this year, rather than depending on man-made channels, many of which do not yet exist, he said.

Speaking of a proposal to create a "Chao Phraya 2" floodway, Petipong said it was a long-term solution which would take time and many steps, including a public hearing.

Instead of building man-made floodways in the short term, he added that he proposed using streets in the Eastern Outer Ring and Buddha Mondhol 5 Road in the western area of Bangkok as channels to drain water.

"I am sure that if we follow this short-term plan, we will not face a flood crisis this year," he said.

"I can assure that there will be no massive expropriation of land to be used as floodways. The main factor behind the 2011 massive flooding was the huge rainfall," he said.

Petipong admitted to being upset at not getting information from government agencies quickly enough. "I am just an ordinary person, not a permanent secretary, a director-general or a minister," he added.

Obstacles to water flow will be demolished as a short-term solution, after information is received from agencies, including the State Railway of Thailand, the Department of Highways and the Royal Irrigation Department.

Petipong's panel asked other agencies, including the Transport Ministry, to demolish roads and other related structures - including bridge pillars or railroads - that could obstruct narrow floodwater flows, such as Bang Na-Trat Road.

He said the panel also had a plan to manage and release water from main dams including Sirikit and Bhumibol dams. However, he said he was worried about public concern about plans to use agricultural land or farmers' paddy fields as water-retention areas and "monkey cheeks" to store and drain flood water.

He said the government had to tell local people clearly about the planned use of their agricultural land for water retention and the compensation they would receive.

"We still have no plans to expropriate land from people who live in floodway areas - but we will improve the capacity of existing canals and floodways to drain the water," he said.

The committee also has a plan to protect the economic zone - such as by fixing the existing dyke along the Chao Phraya River, dredging canals and increasing the capacity of pumping stations, he added.

Meanwhile, SCWRM member Royon Jitdon disclosed that the National Water and Flood Committee would integrate all water information by May. He was speaking after a meeting with the prime minister.

-- The Nation 2012-02-28

[Ijustwannateach]

Oh, this is going to be good if it happens.

[pimay11]

Petipong failed to mention how many boats will be purchased to speed up the water flow. Maybe they are planning on renting the same ones used last year.

[FOODLOVER]

"Elephant Nuts", seems appropriate.

[OzMick]

If any land is to be purchased, the government should void the sale contracts on land sold in the last, say, 6 months if the seller requests this.

This would remove any suggestion that speculators with inside knowledge have used it to reap an illegal windfall profit. The measure could be extended to any future government land purchases.

And pigs might sprout wings and indulge in aerial acrobatics.

[Pib]

Petipong failed to mention how many boats will be purchased to speed up the water flow. Maybe they are planning on renting the same ones used last year.

No boats being used this year; instead, water-proof fans will be used. Unfortunately in making the fans water-proof by putting the whole fan in a garbage bag somewhat impedes the fan's operation, but the Ministry of Fans is diligently working this technical problem through the formation of a committee.

[webfact]

BKK's Dep Governor Worried About Flood Plan

BANGKOK: -- A deputy city governor expresses concern about designating certain areas to be used as flood-waterways, saying that their physical geography could create problems in the flood prevention plan.

Deputy Bangkok Governor Theerachon Manophaiboon said the creation and designation of areas to be used as floodways are not in line with the engineering theory which states that decisions about waterway construction sites should take into consideration the surrounding landscape.

These determinations are made by the Strategic Committee for Water Resources Management, or SCWRM.

Theerachon said that the designation, which didn't take into consideration the physical geography of the designated areas, will cause a reoccurrence of the same problems that resulted from building a barrier at Raphiphat Canal during last year's floods.

He said the areas above Raphiphat Canal are mountainous and water cannot go over the mountain.

He advised the SCWRM to increase the efficiency of the existing flood ways around the city. On the eastern side, the canals should be used to help speed up drainage of water from other areas into the estuary.

He said canals on the eastern side are now equipped with more than 200 large-caliber water pumps, which were provided by the Irrigation Department, as they are capable of draining water even during high sea tides.

On the western side, he urged the panel to look at the 76.42-square kilometer water retention area that helped King Rama II Road both in Bangkok and Samut Sakhon province survive the floods last year.

He said the dredging of canals in Nonthaburi, Nakhon Pathom, and Samut Sakhon, must be expedited to guard Bangkok's nearby provinces against flooding, given that the construction sites for several phases of the mass transit routes are in areas where the overflow passes.

Theerachon said he is worried about ignorance, adding that suggestions from engineering specialists or the failure to enhance the existing floodways at the recommendation of His Majesty the King will create negative consequences for flood management plans.

-- Tan Network 2012-02-28

[AleG]

So the PTP plan for flood prevention is to flood poor farmers to protect Bangkok... if the Democrats, or any other party would come up with this solution there would be a Red Mob with torches, pitchforks and RPGs laying siege to Parliament.

But of course It's OK if Thaksin/PTP Does It.

[phiphidon]

So the PTP plan for flood prevention is to flood poor farmers to protect Bangkok... if the Democrats, or any other party would come up with this solution there would be a Red Mob with torches, pitchforks and RPGs laying siege to Parliament.

But of course It's OK if Thaksin/PTP Does It.

Retracted. Not worth arguing the point.

Edited February 28, 2012 by phiphidon

[Payboy]

Govt to name flood catchment zones

Hmm, let's see now - those would be Nakhon Sawan, Lopburi, Ayuthaya, Pathumthani, Bangkok,.... and so on and so forth.

[Xonax]

So the PTP plan for flood prevention is to flood poor farmers to protect Bangkok... if the Democrats, or any other party would come up with this solution there would be a Red Mob with torches, pitchforks and RPGs laying siege to Parliament.

Not if the compensation is large enough

[cloudhopper]

Oh, this is going to be good if it happens.

I think that sums up their planning until they can inform the water exactly where the retention zones are and how to get there.

[cloudhopper]

"Theerachon said he is worried about ignorance, adding that suggestions from engineering specialists or the failure to enhance the existing floodways at the recommendation of His Majesty the King will create negative consequences for flood management plans."

Can't have any of those engineering specialists interfering with our plan now can we.

[rubl]

The OP has

""I can assure you that there will be no land expropriation. We will not force people into submitting their land plots for water-retention purposes. We will offer fair compensation," Kijja Pholphasi said yesterday in his capacity as a member of the Strategic Committee for Water Resources Management (SCWRM)."

and from Petipong Pungbun Na Ayudhya, a member of a SCWRM panel:

""I can assure that there will be no massive expropriation of land to be used as floodways. The main factor behind the 2011 massive flooding was the huge rainfall," he said."

Consistency, thy name is SCRWM

[Ijustwannateach]

Oh, this is going to be good if it happens.

I think that sums up their planning until they can inform the water exactly where the retention zones are and how to get there.

I just really wanna see where they decide to 'doom' the people and how that plays out politically. Won't be good for them if it's rich OR poor people....

[rubl]

OP: "We will not force people into submitting their land plots for water-retention purposes."

If a plot is in a area selected for water retention purposes and the owners don't want to submit, will SCWRM build a high enough 'big bag wall' around the plot to keep the water out?

[ResX]

If I can recall conversion factor correctly 2million Rai is equal to 3200km2 of land. If this is required for temporary measure only then I have nothing to say. But if they want to make the area permanent, something is terribly wrong. I don't know what is it. But it isn't about the flood control.

You don't need 3.2billion m2 of land to deal with 17billion cubic meter of waters. Even if Thailand has decided to take 34billion m3 of flood water that area is pretty to big. Bhumibol dam required 0nly 0.3billion m2 of land to keep at least 7billion m3 of water to stay calm.

Is my conversion factor correct? Or did I miss something?

[whybother]

If I can recall conversion factor correctly 2million Rai is equal to 3200km2 of land. If this is required for temporary measure only then I have nothing to say. But if they want to make the area permanent, something is terribly wrong. I don't know what is it. But it isn't about the flood control.

You don't need 3.2billion m2 of land to deal with 17billion cubic meter of waters. Even if Thailand has decided to take 34billion m3 of flood water that area is pretty to big. Bhumibol dam required 0nly 0.3billion m2 of land to keep at least 7billion m3 of water to stay calm.

Is my conversion factor correct? Or did I miss something?

How deep is Bhumibol Dam? And how deep do they expect the water to be over the 2 million rai?

If Bhumibol dam is 10 metres deep, you would need 3 billion m2 of land to store that water 1 metre deep.

... I think.

[Reasonableman]

If I can recall conversion factor correctly 2million Rai is equal to 3200km2 of land. If this is required for temporary measure only then I have nothing to say. But if they want to make the area permanent, something is terribly wrong. I don't know what is it. But it isn't about the flood control.

You don't need 3.2billion m2 of land to deal with 17billion cubic meter of waters. Even if Thailand has decided to take 34billion m3 of flood water that area is pretty to big. Bhumibol dam required 0nly 0.3billion m2 of land to keep at least 7billion m3 of water to stay calm.

Is my conversion factor correct? Or did I miss something?

How deep is Bhumibol Dam? And how deep do they expect the water to be over the 2 million rai?

If Bhumibol dam is 10 metres deep, you would need 3 billion m2 of land to store that water 1 metre deep.

... I think.

You mean if the dam wall falls asunder, or wot?

[justaphase]

It's all <deleted> anyway. the flood will come. We'll all get wet. (I live in ayuttaya, had 2.5 metres in my soi for 6 weeks)

And then the lies will start all over agian.

Lies, for example.. a government hotline to rescue the desperate. We were without power, food and water for 3 days, called the army hotline, waited 4 more days and nothing.

In a country that cant even educate it's people properly, what do u expect.

TIT

[MAJIC]

Oh, this is going to be good if it happens.

I think that sums up their planning until they can inform the water exactly where the retention zones are and how to get there.

I just really wanna see where they decide to 'doom' the people and how that plays out politically. Won't be good for them if it's rich OR poor people....

I guess the Red Villages have nothing to worry about.

[whybother]

If I can recall conversion factor correctly 2million Rai is equal to 3200km2 of land. If this is required for temporary measure only then I have nothing to say. But if they want to make the area permanent, something is terribly wrong. I don't know what is it. But it isn't about the flood control.

You don't need 3.2billion m2 of land to deal with 17billion cubic meter of waters. Even if Thailand has decided to take 34billion m3 of flood water that area is pretty to big. Bhumibol dam required 0nly 0.3billion m2 of land to keep at least 7billion m3 of water to stay calm.

Is my conversion factor correct? Or did I miss something?

How deep is Bhumibol Dam? And how deep do they expect the water to be over the 2 million rai?

If Bhumibol dam is 10 metres deep, you would need 3 billion m2 of land to store that water 1 metre deep.

... I think.

You mean if the dam wall falls asunder, or wot?

ResX was comparing the volume of the dam to the volume of 2 mil rai, suggesting that they 2 mil rai is way too much. I was suggesting it isn't (given that my calcs are correct).

[Reasonableman]

Oh, in that case I'm in way over my head.

[ResX]

If I can recall conversion factor correctly 2million Rai is equal to 3200km2 of land. If this is required for temporary measure only then I have nothing to say. But if they want to make the area permanent, something is terribly wrong. I don't know what is it. But it isn't about the flood control.

You don't need 3.2billion m2 of land to deal with 17billion cubic meter of waters. Even if Thailand has decided to take 34billion m3 of flood water that area is pretty to big. Bhumibol dam required 0nly 0.3billion m2 of land to keep at least 7billion m3 of water to stay calm.

Is my conversion factor correct? Or did I miss something?

How deep is Bhumibol Dam? And how deep do they expect the water to be over the 2 million rai?

If Bhumibol dam is 10 metres deep, you would need 3 billion m2 of land to store that water 1 metre deep.

... I think.

Roughly about 25-30m useful storage. I don't think they prepare to keep 17 billion cubic meter there. Bhumibol & Sirkit can hold at least 7 billion cubic meter. Chao Pharaya dam another close to 1 billion cubic meter, There are 197 ++ other dams scattered around in Thailand.

Maybe they need extra. At most 6.4 billion cubic meter more . In this case the height of the water will be 2m. The question is why not solve the problem like anybody else? Get an area or a few areas with total area of 300km2. Then flood the area by 20m. They get the same 6billion cubic meter storage + total area 10 folds smaller.

[animatic]

Yes now they tell the public, after their friends have had time to

buy up large tracts cheap to sell to the government for significant profits.

[rubl]

The way water flows am I wrong in assuming the catchment areas will be well North of Nakhon Sawan ?