One Killed, 10 Injured In Bangkok Hotel Fire

[8OA8]

Wishing a speedy recovery for the injured.

When temperatures change to becoming extremely hot, or extremely cold, the systems that are used to cool or heat a building are put under extreme load and that could easily be the cause of an electrical overload (pure speculation by me). An example is house fires in the UK, where people are now using fireplaces in their houses because the fuel oil that they have normally been using has become too expensive to purchase and they are now burning wood in the fireplace as it's cheaper, but the chimney isn't swept. and next thing it's on fire (= air-con maybe not serviced regularly enough because of extreme weather and system is overloaded). as mentioned pure speculation! Even the best planning will not prevent an accident from happening regardless of the country you are in.

For those beating on Thailand about building safety and fires, Sure the western cities are way ahead, however just ask yourself why do these large western cities all have a huge fire brigade with annual expenditure in excess of half a billion pounds Stg...not because the buildings are all so great that none ever have fires!

[Wiggy]

"We're now helping foreigners staying in the hotel," said a police officer at the scene.

Why the need to mention "foreigners"? Does it matter WHO you're helping? I can see the headline in tomorrow's papers, "No Thais injured in hotel fire". So insulting.

[JMG]

11:49pm: To add to the confusion, Deputy Bangkok Governor has just come out saying NO deaths from the fire on Suk22 @RichardBarrow

Don't want to effect tourism so retract that death, all is well now the person has been reincarnated to his previous life.

Is the hotel taking bookings for the Grand Prix?

[Udox]

I am just around the corner from this hotel and last night I was outraged as I watched the fire engines and rescue trucks sat stationary on Sukhumvit because the drivers in front refused to pull over and let them pass. One Fire Vehicle was screaming at them over his PA microphone to move - but they still just sat there picking their noses and sending sms messages.

I see instances like this every day with emergency vehicles and can't get my head around it. Those vital seconds could save lives.

[anterian]

[takes mod hat off] It does seem that Asoke is especially unlucky this week. One more and it's not going to seem like coincidence anymore.

I was thinking just the same, once is bad luck, twice is coincidence, three times is intentional.

[aussiejosh]

Hhhmmmm that's 2 hotel/hi-rise fires in about 1 block,, in about less than 1 week,,,, hhhmmmm,,,, is someone trying to buy up those blocks?,,,, odd in a city this size,, they are so close, in area, and time I think,,,

My dads apartment is in that soi, there are some strange things going on around it as well. In our building a local Thai has moved in and started taking over the management of the building, somehow got the votes to remove the original management company and started buying surveillance equipment from his own company, replaces the security with his own men; and I think he is now renting out parking spots in our building.

Also I have had a few occasions where I have been told my taxi can't go into the soi and requested that we turn around, I got out and walked the short distance to my apartment and there were a lot of semi official looking men running around making sure no one was driving around until whoever it was had passed through the area. However, they were not police, so I didn't really understand who it was or what was going on.

I might add there was another fire in the soi on new years eve, I can't remember exactly what structure it was I just remember walking home from Narz and there were fire trucks and police cordoning off the street.

[Mosha]

I am just around the corner from this hotel and last night I was outraged as I watched the fire engines and rescue trucks sat stationary on Sukhumvit because the drivers in front refused to pull over and let them pass. One Fire Vehicle was screaming at them over his PA microphone to move - but they still just sat there picking their noses and sending sms messages.

I see instances like this every day with emergency vehicles and can't get my head around it. Those vital seconds could save lives.

I have seen an ambulance, following a local Puy Yai down a quiet road lights flashing, meanwhile, she carries on, blissfully ignorant, straddling the middle of the road. It just isn't part of their thinking to get out of the way.

[whybother]

Hhhmmmm that's 2 hotel/hi-rise fires in about 1 block,, in about less than 1 week,,,, hhhmmmm,,,, is someone trying to buy up those blocks?,,,, odd in a city this size,, they are so close, in area, and time I think,,,

Opposite sides of Sukhumvit, about a kilometre apart. That's one big block.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[Payboy]

I am just around the corner from this hotel and last night I was outraged as I watched the fire engines and rescue trucks sat stationary on Sukhumvit because the drivers in front refused to pull over and let them pass. One Fire Vehicle was screaming at them over his PA microphone to move - but they still just sat there picking their noses and sending sms messages.

I see instances like this every day with emergency vehicles and can't get my head around it. Those vital seconds could save lives.

I have seen an ambulance, following a local Puy Yai down a quiet road lights flashing, meanwhile, she carries on, blissfully ignorant, straddling the middle of the road. It just isn't part of their thinking to get out of the way.

Getting out of the way would be a sign of weakness or inferiority.

With all the tailgating going on highways, its strange how they expect others to oblige when the shoes on the other foot!

[webfact]

RT @RichardBarrow: 8am - Kluaynamthai Hospital: Foreign woman died at 3am from smoke inhalation from the Suk 22 hotel fire /TR @js100radio

[charliec]

I've worked installing and testing fire systems in NYC under some of the most strict Fire laws in the U.S. Basic rules about sprinkler systems is that, by the time the sprinklers ,whether new or old, were to break and activate, anyone in the room would have died of smoke inhalation. Secondly, in real life situations, as supposed to movies, if one sprinkler head activates, the entire floor does not activate. The most important way to save lives is time. Smoke Detectors and signaling devices and proper training are a necessary evils, but life savers. Owners to high-rise hotels, apartments, and commercial buildings each must follow different codes based on what type of building they own. It is their responsibility to make sure no one is hurt inside their premises. Each building is tested every 6 months and the fire Marshall has the right to do a surprise inspection of all the books and records of bi-yearly testing of ALL smoke alarms, heat detectors, and sprinklers. I don't think in Thailand they would or could ever get to the standards of the rest of the world unless major laws are made and strictly enforced. If they don't even enforce driving on the wrong side of the street or even bikes on the sidewalks, it would never happen.

[webfact]

Police believe fire at Grand Park Avenue Hotel in Sukhumvit caused by electrical short circuit; 24 injured /MCOT

[supaprik]

I stayed at this hotel for a month during the water floods and there were sprinklers and alarms as I remember, also the renovations that had been recently completed seemed to be first class but as others have posted what is behind the walls and what actually works is anyone's guess....

R.I.P. to those that have died...

[moe666]

How many times have you stayed in a hotel or even someones house and knew the fastest and safest way out. Having spent 10 years in the Navy on ships you have to know the way out, extending that to civilian life when ever I go into a public building or unknown house I always check the exits.

For your own safety always check the location of exits to your location always, know in which direction to go, it is very easy to get disorientated in a room filled with smoke. In the end you are responsible for your own safety if you leave it up to someone else you maybe dead.

[spectrumisgreen]

'A body was later found on the fourth floor, which is for holding banquet, by fire fighters.'

Almost sounds like a disclaimer, saying he was in the wrong place.. 'Sorry sir, you can't burn to death here, banquet guests only!'

[NanLaew]

[takes mod hat off] It does seem that Asoke is especially unlucky this week. One more and it's not going to seem like coincidence anymore.

You wear a hat at work? Or is it when the hat is on, you can't sew conspiracy theories?

Just playin'.... I wouldn't be paying much attention except my new place of work is right in the Terminal 21 area and I have been looking at condo rentals in the area while lodging at hotels. Maybe I need to revisit my short-list and reconfirm how narrow the access lanes are, how cluttered with utility poles and if there are working sprinklers in evidence. I may just stay in the same place as last year (low-end of Sukhumvit) as it had been 100% gutted and remodeled, including working sprinklers and wasn't such a high-rise either. I guess I can handle the social stigma of the street location another year.

[craigt3365]

An inappropriate post has been removed from view. Please show some respect for the dead.

[NanLaew]

BTW, on the subject of fire sprinklers in older buildings, ala the Fico building fire and perhaps here...

One way some other cities have handled that difficult issue with older high rises that predate sprinkler laws is to require sprinklers be installed when different kinds of trigger events occur...Such as...

--any time the building is sold, and money is changing hands, it's not unreasonable for local government to require that fire and life safety upgrades be made part of the sale.

and/or

--when an existing building undergoes a certain level of modification, upgrading or expansion, etc -- again where the owners are already spending money == to then also mandate fire and life safety upgrades be added.

Ill be very interested to see what kind of supposedly promised directive the BMA is going to issue on requiring fire sprinklers in older highrises that currently lack them.... The usual routine is lots of promises, and then little or nothing in the way of actual performance.

Good point as even a layman will appreciate how an older building cannot easily be upgraded with sprinklers overnight. I am not sure I have seen entire office buildings change ownership where the opportunity for major upgrades could be carried out. However, hotels generally do change en-bloc as was the case with this unfortunate hotel so maybe it already had sprinklers installed. The complexities of wet or dry-riser sprinkler systems is not my forte but I think a key oversight in Thailand is testing and inspection of these systems. Per my earlier post, the place I stayed last year was built back in the 'olden days' as a condo but was 100% gutted and remodeled before reopening in 2009 as hotel/service apartments. There was a brand new sprinkler system installed and I know it was a wet-riser and working because a delivery truck took out some pipework in the parking garage. For half a day, it looked like the Bangkok floods had really hit the Soi!

[gjoo888]

"We're now helping foreigners staying in the hotel," said a police officer at the scene.

Why the need to mention "foreigners"? Does it matter WHO you're helping? I can see the headline in tomorrow's papers, "No Thais injured in hotel fire". So insulting.

Maybe because there are mostly foreigners staying at that hotel?

[theanimaster]

This has happened a couple of times within the last month. Electrical inspections need to be made now at all hotels, and sprinkler systems need to be working, or they're going to feel tourism money going elsewhere. I wonder if there is any chance of arson on these recent fires.

I wonder... how do they test the sprinkler systems to see if they're working?

[theanimaster]

Wishing a speedy recovery for the injured. When temperatures change to becoming extremely hot, or extremely cold, the systems that are used to cool or heat a building are put under extreme load and that could easily be the cause of an electrical overload (pure speculation by me). An example is house fires in the UK, where people are now using fireplaces in their houses because the fuel oil that they have normally been using has become too expensive to purchase and they are now burning wood in the fireplace as it's cheaper, but the chimney isn't swept. and next thing it's on fire (= air-con maybe not serviced regularly enough because of extreme weather and system is overloaded). as mentioned pure speculation! Even the best planning will not prevent an accident from happening regardless of the country you are in. For those beating on Thailand about building safety and fires, Sure the western cities are way ahead, however just ask yourself why do these large western cities all have a huge fire brigade with annual expenditure in excess of half a billion pounds Stg...not because the buildings are all so great that none ever have fires!

Where I teach, this happens PLENTY times -- the hotter the day, the more the circuit breakers trip. Did I say circuit breakers? But of course -- even a cheap government school implements these! So although we don't have fires, the students in their computer classes are regularly interrupted every 10-15 minutes... just when they've finished building up whatever they've lost just moments ago.

RIP to the victims of this tragedy.

[gkinbkk]

Also I have had a few occasions where I have been told my taxi can't go into the soi and requested that we turn around, I got out and walked the short distance to my apartment and there were a lot of semi official looking men running around making sure no one was driving around until whoever it was had passed through the area. However, they were not police, so I didn't really understand who it was or what was going on.

Imperial Queens Park on Soi 22 frequently has Thai VIPs visiting and also the bomb squad is located in the basement of that hotel

[HalibutJones]

Firstly, any time there's an incident like this there are 2 sides: the "Thailand building and safety regulations are a joke" group, and the "How can you say that, this could happen anywhere" brigade.

There's a simple explanation for how people can say that, it's called experience. People saying they haven't seen fire escapes padlocked are either very lucky in their time here, or their guide dog didn't tell them about it. More often than not, fire escapes ARE chained and padlocked. The amount of times a fire escape has been inaccessible because the corridor is being used for storage is commonplace. How many times have those of you that check the fire escape isn't locked have actually opened the door, to see it's not obstructed on the other side? How many times have you taken a photo of a shower unit, just plugged into a socket wired 12" from the shower head itself, it's earth pointing out and unconnected, and sent it to an electrician mate back home for shits and giggles, only you don't bother now, 'cause it's so commonplace and the novelty's worn off? Experience.

Secondly, we're in Methi Niwet, behind Benjasiri Park, at the end, as close as you can get to 22 without being on it, and directly opposite the hotel in question. At 10pm a group of us were up on the roof, watching. There was thick smoke billowing out of vents in the lower part of the building, the living units and pool were directly above this. One truck sent a ladder up to the vents and/or pool, it couldn't reach and retracted. The building, despite interior lighting, seemed quiet, with only a group of people on the balcony of what I'd guess is the 7th floor, or that's all we saw, at least. There was little commotion, except for one of the people running off down the corridor, then back again. A cherry picker was then deployed, got about two thirds of the way up to the people, and was again retracted. We then saw flashlights on various floors of the building, the smoke had abated, and we came down, assuming it was under control.

Just before 11, hearing more sirens, I went back up for a last check. The majority of the building was in darkness, flashlights evident in most floors, presumably many fire officers searching the rooms, some on the roof. The cherry picker was out again, this time at full extension, alternating between what seemed to be the aforementioned balcony and the pool level below. Smoke was coming out of the opposite side of the building, but not as intense as the first time we'd seen it.

Regards the woman being dead at 3am: pronounced dead at 3, or found at 3? That building was full of people at 11pm, if she was found at 3am why did it take 4 hours? If she was pronounced dead, what went on for 4 hours? This is just speculation, I have no experience of fires, or fire rescue, or smoke inhalation, etc. Just wondering.

[webfact]

Female foreign tourist dies from injuries in fire at Grand Park Avenue Hotel; 21 injured admitted to several hospitals; four Thais among victims /MCOT

[belg]

guess a way to cut costs and improve profits is to put fake sprinklers, no laws here to make it an obligation ?

[49337]

speaking of which, how safe is the subway system. when i was in bkk, i never bothered to use it. any comment?

[SabaiBKK]

i response to people complaining to other people that they speculate without even thinking or giving condolences for the victims i would like to say that you can have sympathy for the victims without having to brag about it on a webboard that only irrelevant people from the story read .....

on a nother note I still remember the ambassador hotel fire which was purely an insurance scam to make way for a new shopping mall .... what impressed me was the firefigthers in flip flops or rubber boots fighting this huge fire !

Edited March 9, 2012 by SabaiBKK

[bbradsby]

I assume the fire exits were locked (chained?) as per normal Thai practice,

for security, of course.

There was nothing in the OP to suggest that fire exits were locked. Or do we now base news on assumptions? How many fire doors have you found locked in Thailand? Have you ever checked? I assume that you just copied your assumption from some other Doom and Gloom TV negative poster

I hate to burst your bubble. But, I have personally seen locked ground floor exit doors in high rises in Bangkok. Best one was a sand bag wall blocking it from the outside.

As an American architect, what's left of my hair stands on end with what I see here in terms of fire hazards in high rises. Seriously, I check the closest exit stair all the way to the ground, every time I take my family to a hotel, anywhere in Asia. In the vast majority of the time, the fire stair's required fire-rated stair enclosure is breached by several doors propped open or missing, closers or latches broken or purposely disabled via simple removal, and/or flammables stored in the stairwell itself! These are deathtraps via smoke inhalation in the first minutes of a highrise fire. Then the fire comes up the same path later, but it doesn't matter, the smoke already killed the occupants.

This is how a fire on the Murcure's 4th FLoor can kill via smoke inhalation onthe 7th FLoor, with no issues on the 5th & 6th in between. Smoke finds a vertical opening - fire stairwell or mechanical shaft - uses it as a chimney, and then is distributed very quickly with deadly effect, to all the breached openings in floors above. Very common in Asia. A few months back there was a high-end, private hospital fire in India that killed over 90 patients in this simple manner: lack of protection of openings between floors.

Everyone here should map out their exit path first night of each hotel stay in Asia or Africa, and survey their workplace. A five Kg sledge hammer & crowbar stored in your office will get you out in case of a locked exit door. But first you have to have clear air in the stairwell to get you there. Ask nicely the maintenance guys to fix doors & closers, then the landlord, and finally the Fire Dept if need be. Hell, just have it done yourself.

The maintenance staff come straight from rice farming along with their boss, so have no idea about fire safety in commercial buildings. The owners havent a care in the world, cant be bothered, and the Fire Department yearly inspections required in other countries is a joke. Doesnt happen.

[webfact]

UPDATE

Electrical short circuit may be cause of Grand Park Avenue Hotel fire: Police

BANGKOK, March 9 -- Police believed that fire at the Grand Park Avenue Hotel in Sukhumvit 22 may have been caused by an electrical short circuit, according to Bangkok Metropolitan Police deputy commander Pol Maj-Gen Anuchai Lekbumrung.

He said experts from the Office of Forensic Science would inspect the scene this morning to determine the cause of the fire.

Firefighters took almost two hours to control the fire that broke out at the Grand Park Avenue Hotel, located in the prime business area of Sukhumvit at around 10pm last night.

One seriously injured foreign tourist, a woman, has died; 21 others, including four Thais, were injured in the fire.

Gen Anuchai said that according to the initial investigation, the fire began on the fourth floor in a function room zone and was closed at the time..

It was believed that an electrical short circuit may have been the cause of the fire, but experts are investigating.

The fourth floor function room area was totally burned.

Meanwhile, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) has announced the hotel as an off limits zone, awaiting Public Works Department verification the safety of the structure and inspection of the fire sprinkler system to determine whether it worked properly during the fire. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2012-03-09

[laurentbkk]

speaking of which, how safe is the subway system. when i was in bkk, i never bothered to use it. any comment?

the subway system is as good as many European countries. even better in many ways.