UK pensions

[Flustered]

4 hours ago, Rajab Al Zarahni said:

Never trust a man who reports for duty without having had a shave.

 

https://www.ftadviser.com/state-pension/2017/04/21/harrington-dismisses-calls-to-unfreeze-expat-pension-payments/

As I said, never trust a politician. Nothing but free loaders and pigs.

 

No party will ever spend money on ex pats resident overseas as they are seen by many in the UK as the rich elite. They simply do not understand that all most people want is a nice warm place to retire to that is reasonably safe and where you can get more for your bucks. The fact that all of your pension income in the UK is taxable even though you are overseas does not matter one jot.

 

When it comes to politics and money, never bet on them giving it away unless it is a massive vote winner like Gordon Brown and his winter fuel allowance/free bus travel. Bribes, nothing more.

 

Sorry guys, although I would welcome a few more shekels in the pot, I know it will never happen.

[nong38]

Good coverage in the Mail today as well about the debate and the Frozen Pensions, its in the .............thisismoney.co.uk             section.

[Expattaff1308]

9 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Good coverage in the Mail today as well about the debate and the Frozen Pensions, its in the .............thisismoney.co.uk             section.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-4432190/MPs-press-end-frozen-state-pension-injustice.html

 

Ironically the savings they make on expats by not using the NHS, Bus Pass, Cold Weather Payments & all the Other Age Related Allowances would more than cover the annual increase. .

Edited April 22, 2017 by Expattaff1308

[nong38]

All politicians seem to attend a school for special needs where they are given a course on how to be selective on what they use in their arguments and what they can safely ignore ad infinitum. Perhaps a gun at the side of the head might concentrate the mind more.

I still look and hope for a a media big hitter to take up the cause and keep thrusting it down the Governments throat, that would be the gamechanger like Joanna Lumley did for the Gurkhas.

[evadgib]

The Gurkha's terms and conditions of service differed significantly from the rest but I take your point. On the other hand UK workforce/taxpayers saw no such difference prior to Carson.

 

HMG realise the game is up and will address the issue during the next Parliament. Proposed changes to the voting system will have dire consequences in the 2022 election should they fail.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by evadgib

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

The Gurkha's terms and conditions of service differed significantly from the rest but I take your point. On the other hand UK workforce/taxpayers saw no such difference prior to Carson.

 

HMG realise the game is up and will address the issue during the next Parliament. Proposed changes to the voting system will have dire consequences in the 2022 election should they fail.

 

 

Having watched the debate and reviewed the subsequent media coverage I feel a lot more optimistic than I have felt over past months.

I know it doesn't count for much but I now see the Greens are pledged to overturn the frozen pension policy.

Ominously, there is now press speculation that the Tories are looking to free themselves from the promises of the Cameron end their commitment to the triple lock and reduce the threshold for tax exempt pension contributions.

We need to keep up the pressure. 

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-4432190/MPs-press-end-frozen-state-pension-injustice.html

 

Ironically the savings they make on expats by not using the NHS, Bus Pass, Cold Weather Payments & all the Other Age Related Allowances would more than cover the annual increase. .

Comment from your link.

"Harrington went on: 'Those who are eligible for a UK state pension can have their pension paid wherever they choose to live. The rules governing the uprating of pensions are straightforward, widely publicised and have been the same for many years.'

He added that National Insurance was a 'pay as you go' system, where current contributions were used for expenditure on state pensions in that year, not in future ones."

 

Maybe I am missing something but surely his comment would apply to the state pension scheme overall.

They would never have got away with freezing all state pensions so it was a case of settling for the easy option, geographical discrimination.

[Eff1n2ret]

21 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Maybe I am missing something but surely his comment would apply to the state pension scheme overall.

Indeed, but his speech was largely waffle. His argument came down to three basic points:-

 

1) It's been this way for 70 years.

2) Nobody forced you to retire abroad, and if you didn't take the trouble to find out what the score is, that's your problem.

3) The 'partial uprating' cost of £30 million per year proposed in the motion is an illusion, because over the years all new pensioners would effectively have a "full uprating", at a very much higher cost.

 

There is some logic in point (3, assuming that a similar number of pensioners would retire  to countries which are currently "frozen". I got the impression that he couldn't be bothered to mount a vigorous defence, because the snap election has got his department and the Treasury off the hook for the time being.

 

There is one argument that I didn't hear in the debate (perhaps I missed it), which may become more powerful in the future. Pensioners with foreign wives/husbands who decide they can no longer afford to live abroad have another problem if they cannot meet the minimum income requirement for a spouse settlement visa. The requirement itself has of course been tested in the courts and can not now be challenged, but it is a factor which was not present in the previous Human Rights case about frozen pensions, thus might give grounds for a fresh challenge against frozen pensions.

[evadgib]

The '15 year' clause remains on Gov.uk website re voting in the GE. If they can add 16-17 year old as the Jocks are proposing/did in 2014 why are eligible adults abroad excluded?

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

22 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The '15 year' clause remains on Gov.uk website re voting in the GE. If they can add 16-17 year old as the Jocks are proposing/did in 2014 why are eligible adults abroad excluded?

French citizens living in their commonwealth area even have their own representation in the French parliament.

Lord Ashcroft, who sits in the House of Lords, for the Conservatives is a UK citizen and a citizen of Belize. He is not a UK resident but he can make laws about  which British citizens can vote !

Edited April 23, 2017 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[Eff1n2ret]

40 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The '15 year' clause remains on Gov.uk website re voting in the GE. If they can add 16-17 year old as the Jocks are proposing/did in 2014 why are eligible adults abroad excluded?

This is from a recent statement by Sir Roger Gale MP on the subject. 16-17 year olds won't be voting in this election:-

 

Not surprisingly I have received a number of queries about the status of the “Votes for Life” legislation proposed in the last Conservative Manifesto.

The commitment, made in good faith, was to have the legislation and supporting franchise infrastructure approved by the Electoral Commission on the statute book in time for a 2020  General Election and my understanding from Chris Skidmore in the Cabinet Office is that that process was on track at the time that the Prime Minister announced her intention to seek an election on June 8^th.

It gives me no pleasure to have to say that there is no prospect of this process being expedited, as some have sought to suggest, by the time that Parliament is dissolved on 2^nd/3^rd May. Only agreed and non-contentious measures will be allowed to pass through both Houses of Parliament – and a ”Votes for Life” bill will have to go through both Houses  - before the House is prorogued. All other (contentious) measures will have to be carried over or re-introduced in the next parliament.

The short answer to the “why was it not done sooner” question is that the measure is contentious – it is not supported by the Labour and Liberal parties in an Upper House in which the Government does not have a majority.  There is an additional complication , as explained to me by Chris Grayling when he was Leader of the House, which is that the bill will be a franchise measure and, under the `long title`, amendable in the House of Lords. That House is known to want to extend the franchise to sixteen year-olds  - a measure that is in itself contentious – and is likely to seek to use a “Votes for Life” bill as a vehicle to achieve other objectives.  The horse-trading process will therefore take time that is simply no longer available in this parliament.

[evadgib]

The debate was mentioned at the end of the weekly round up of politics that serves as a stocking-filler on BBC world News this afternoon.

[nong38]

I watched most of the last PMQ's of the current season, when I joined Corbyn was on about these women who will lose a lot of money because now they have equality they have to wait another 5 or 6 years to get their pension ( something they have been paying into all their lives and are entitled to). The PM was sympathetic and sounded if as if something might be done but no promise. There was no mention about the overseas frozen situation, perhaps there are more votes to be had from UK based females eh? Anyway seems that the 2 combatants agreed and it might be in both manifestos thus cancelling each other out, I did not hear any figures but sure to dwarf the 30m gbp what would solve the OSP's situation which the country apparently has no funds for.

In another article I was reading in the Mail yesterday a Parliamentry select committee was showing concern about supplying our armed forces with ammunition! OSP problem take one more step back, if they cannot fund the forces that puts into perspective at this moment in time and nothing is likely to happen this side of the GE result on the 8th June, but, in the interim time the campaign kicks off in early May and who knows what subjects will be raised and actions promised. Its hard to predict will happen tomorrow for yourself so lets hope we get some air time in the coming 6 weeks.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

12 minutes ago, nong38 said:

I watched most of the last PMQ's of the current season, when I joined Corbyn was on about these women who will lose a lot of money because now they have equality they have to wait another 5 or 6 years to get their pension ( something they have been paying into all their lives and are entitled to). The PM was sympathetic and sounded if as if something might be done but no promise. There was no mention about the overseas frozen situation, perhaps there are more votes to be had from UK based females eh? Anyway seems that the 2 combatants agreed and it might be in both manifestos thus cancelling each other out, I did not hear any figures but sure to dwarf the 30m gbp what would solve the OSP's situation which the country apparently has no funds for.

In another article I was reading in the Mail yesterday a Parliamentary select committee was showing concern about supplying our armed forces with ammunition! OSP problem take one more step back, if they cannot fund the forces that puts into perspective at this moment in time and nothing is likely to happen this side of the GE result on the 8th June, but, in the interim time the campaign kicks off in early May and who knows what subjects will be raised and actions promised. Its hard to predict will happen tomorrow for yourself so lets hope we get some air time in the coming 6 weeks.

Women enjoyed a massively unfair advantage over men in being entitled to draw their state pension five years earlier. This unfair advantage was compounded by the fact that their life expectancy is demonstrably greater than that of men. The unfairness of their treatment arises not from the equalization of the pension age with men but from the pitifully poor manner in which they were advised of the change by the DWP. The government have been emphatic that they will mot accede to any demands to put the matter right and to do so would compound the disadvantage to men of the same age.

Corbyn and co can campaign vigorously to put the matter right in the comfortable certainty that they will not be the incoming government who has to find the money for it.Correcting the frozen pension problem would be a drop in the ocean in comparison to funding the womens pension claim. Cynical I may be but I am confident that they wouldn't have any interest in an issue affecting predominantly white, indigenous, middle aged men.  

[ianh68]

This piece about protecting UK pensions abroad by the Labour Party as part of the General Election campaign is worth reading.

https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2017/04/12/labour-makes-state-pension-pledges/

 

Anyone wanting advice about voting should go the the UK General Election thread in this forum.

[Flustered]

2 hours ago, ianh68 said:

This piece about protecting UK pensions abroad by the Labour Party as part of the General Election campaign is worth reading.

https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2017/04/12/labour-makes-state-pension-pledges/

 

Anyone wanting advice about voting should go the the UK General Election thread in this forum.

Easy to promise the earth when you know you will not be in power.

 

Look how the LibDems caught a cold when they had to explain why their promises could not be kept.

 

If you trust politicians, you need your head examining. Work on the assumption that they are all lying, snout in the trough pigs and vote for the one who promises the least.

[evadgib]

Never trust a 'Mutton-Headed old Mugwump!' 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/27/mugwump-boris-johnsons-creative-insult-explained/

Edited April 28, 2017 by evadgib

[Flustered]

6 hours ago, evadgib said:

Never trust a 'Mutton-Headed old Mugwump!' 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/27/mugwump-boris-johnsons-creative-insult-explained/

I must be one of the few who know what a Mugwhump is..Mind you, it's all the sci fi I read and my old rock days from the 60s. That is unless you go back to the 1880s. I think Boris had William S. Burroughs novel in mind.

 

Jeremy Corbyn is a perfect shoe in for the part.

[rockingrobin]

This doesnt look very promising

 

http://citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/news/government-delays-state-pension-age-decision/a1012308

 

The government has delayed making a decision about the future of the state pension age (SPA) until after the general election in June.

[Flustered]

Sorry, no sympathy.

 

Who asked you all to live so long or to take advantage of today's advances in medicine? You should all be pushing up daisy's by the age of 70.

 

There is a very simple answer to all of this. Cut back on the ridiculously high foreign aid payments and use some of that to cover the pensions. It's our money but we are giving it away to dictators, corrupt regimes and India's space program....But the luvvies and tree huggers would rather we give it away than use it on ourselves so that they can feel warm and cuddly inside.

 

 

[billd766]

7 hours ago, Flustered said:

Sorry, no sympathy.

 

Who asked you all to live so long or to take advantage of today's advances in medicine? You should all be pushing up daisy's by the age of 70.

 

There is a very simple answer to all of this. Cut back on the ridiculously high foreign aid payments and use some of that to cover the pensions. It's our money but we are giving it away to dictators, corrupt regimes and India's space program....But the luvvies and tree huggers would rather we give it away than use it on ourselves so that they can feel warm and cuddly inside.

 

 

 

My Granddad died in 1958 and he was 82. My Grandmum died in 1953 aged 76. They didn't have the advantages to todays advances in medicine.

 

I do agree with you about the foreign aid payments though.

 

Not that this or any government would spend it on unfreezing pensions though.

[nong38]

Foreign Aid should be cut but its seems like the Holy Grail and ring fenced to boot! 2 days ago it has appeared that the Defence budget is 20 Billion short and with the way the world is heading that should be fixed first before they send money to keep foreign "leaders" in the life that they have become accustomed to. Am I the only one who thinks we send all this money to these countries and what are the results? What difference has it made? Show some results and I might say help them that help themselves but they just seem to helping themselves to more and more and we are daft enough to keep providing it! Would you run a private company like that or is it just easy to spend other peoples money?

 

Its going to be a while before any of that FA budget is diverted to help ex pat pensioners, sorry to say, join the queue.

[Expattaff1308]

Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country and giving it to the rich people of a poor country.”

[evadgib]

Threat to triple lock:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39748174

[ianh68]

On 28/04/2017 at 11:17 PM, Flustered said:

I must be one of the few who know what a Mugwhump is..Mind you, it's all the sci fi I read and my old rock days from the 60s. That is unless you go back to the 1880s. I think Boris had William S. Burroughs novel in mind.

 

Jeremy Corbyn is a perfect shoe in for the part.

https://vib.by/v/XyzdFjDY7

[Ricardo]

More from the hustings  ...

 

"The Tories will pledge to increase the powers of regulators over company pensions, including fines for employers who deliberately underfund schemes.   Following the BHS pension scandal, corporate takeovers could be blocked where the solvency of the company scheme appears to be threatened."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39760717

 

"Mrs May said: "Today I am setting out our plans, if elected, to ensure the pensions of ordinary working people are protected against the actions of unscrupulous company bosses.  Safeguarding pensions to ensure dignity in retirement is about security for families, and it's another example of the choice in this election."

 

So 'dignity in retirement' is very important to the currentPM & her party, unless of course the recipients are trying to live on a government old age allowance in a country like Thailand, where it's suddenly quite OK to freeze it forever !

 

Politician speak with forked-tongue, or is it double-standards ? 

[sandyf]

On 4/29/2017 at 11:03 PM, billd766 said:

 

My Granddad died in 1958 and he was 82. My Grandmum died in 1953 aged 76. They didn't have the advantages to todays advances in medicine.

 

I do agree with you about the foreign aid payments though.

 

Not that this or any government would spend it on unfreezing pensions though.

Last comment spot on Bill. I would agree to certain extent that foreign aid should be a bit more selective but I prefer another option that has been suggested. That state pension be withdrawn from those on a very high income, after all for those on over 150K a year, 45% is going back to the government anyway, the effect would hardly impact on their daily spending.

[Flustered]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Last comment spot on Bill. I would agree to certain extent that foreign aid should be a bit more selective but I prefer another option that has been suggested. That state pension be withdrawn from those on a very high income, after all for those on over 150K a year, 45% is going back to the government anyway, the effect would hardly impact on their daily spending.

Why stop at pensions. How about taking away all other benefits that people have paid into.These are "Universal" benefits and cannot be divided up into some Socialist ideal of "make the better off pay through the nose".

 

Lets stop the NHS for those on over 150K, lets take away the bus passes and the winter fuel allowance. That's the Socialist way of doing things. Make someone pay into a system and then take away their rights. Mind you, I think the Gordon Brown election vote winners should never have happened. There is no reason why OAPs could not contribute an annual fee to the bus pass.

 

Foreign aid is wasted. It is a matter of record that hundreds of millions of £s are thrown away on utterly ridiculous projects and into the pockets of dictators and other politicians.

 

My own thoughts are that foreign aid should be a pot of money to be used in the event of natural disasters. The money then would at least be used directly to help those who need it rather than those who want to be in a "Girl" band or loose weight.

[sandyf]

37 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Why stop at pensions. How about taking away all other benefits that people have paid into.These are "Universal" benefits and cannot be divided up into some Socialist ideal of "make the better off pay through the nose".

 

Lets stop the NHS for those on over 150K, lets take away the bus passes and the winter fuel allowance. That's the Socialist way of doing things. Make someone pay into a system and then take away their rights. Mind you, I think the Gordon Brown election vote winners should never have happened. There is no reason why OAPs could not contribute an annual fee to the bus pass.

 

Foreign aid is wasted. It is a matter of record that hundreds of millions of £s are thrown away on utterly ridiculous projects and into the pockets of dictators and other politicians.

 

My own thoughts are that foreign aid should be a pot of money to be used in the event of natural disasters. The money then would at least be used directly to help those who need it rather than those who want to be in a "Girl" band or loose weight.

As some one who has had their rights taken away I am perfectly entitled to suggest the same principle be applied to others, but obviously you believe in discrimination.

[sandyf]

A point that may be of interest to some. I was on the NI website and this caught my eye. It would appear that the automatic credits I received between the age of 60 and 65 are disappearing fast, I didn't realise they were linked to the female pension age.

 

Men approaching 65

 

Your situation    
You’re between the current women’s State Pension age and 65, live in the UK at least 183 days a year and you’re in one of these situations: you don’t work, you don’t earn enough to make a qualifying year, or you’re self-employed with a small earnings exception

 

How to get credits
You get Class 1 credits automatically