Family Of Man In Skytrain Scuffle Threatened

[flyingsporran]

From many years in Thailand, and also reporting on similar attacks, I am writing from confidence that foriegners can be attacked for very little reason, when the attacker believes he has the power in that situation. Its a fact of life. Normally these situations can be avoided. But there are cases when they cannot. Many Thais are horrified at this attack. At the moment we are just hearing from the noisy foreigners and their equivalent.

John Behan was not drunk during that video - he had been clobbered sevaral times and I am sure his adrenalin was up.

It's rather interesting that i've been living in Thailand for years and have used the public transportation a lot and never encountered Thais getting violent with me. Amazing isn't it? Gee, I wonder why.

Funnily enough neither have I. It means nothing.

[Reasonableman]

You're probably inoffensive and eminently forgettable.

From many years in Thailand, and also reporting on similar attacks, I am writing from confidence that foriegners can be attacked for very little reason, when the attacker believes he has the power in that situation. Its a fact of life. Normally these situations can be avoided. But there are cases when they cannot. Many Thais are horrified at this attack. At the moment we are just hearing from the noisy foreigners and their equivalent.

John Behan was not drunk during that video - he had been clobbered sevaral times and I am sure his adrenalin was up.

It's rather interesting that i've been living in Thailand for years and have used the public transportation a lot and never encountered Thais getting violent with me. Amazing isn't it? Gee, I wonder why.

[Gone]

but the people on this thread or any thread that speak down on 'newbies" should be given a posting holiday so they will have to go to an internet cafe, set up another account under another name then they too will be newbies.

Just because a person doesn't spend their every waking hour posting in TV doesn't mean they don't have intellegence or a good opinion.

People who put down newbies here have the same syndrom as the Irish guy in this thread, they think they are better then the next person.

[F4UCorsair]

I don't normally reply to these topics but this one takes the cake!

The guy represents the kind of foreigners who should definitely not be in the kingdom. Despite having worked and married locally he seems to have absolutely no idea how to behave. People like security guards have jobs to do and rules to enforce. If the guard had not stopped him he would have left himself open to being disciplined.

This kind of flouting convention and socially accepted behavior is all too common in Thailand where it it easy for foreigners to act in a high handed manner in situations where they would not in their home countries. For example, I can't imagine this guy having what it takes to act in the same way on the London underground where customer service and security staff are physically considerably larger and much more assertive than their polite Thai counterparts.

Furthermore, a good way to judge a person' character is to observe how he or she treat those in less socially advantaged positions and this foreigner's public display of childish temper over a trivial mater shows him for what he is. Not to mention the matter of social learning, where his young daughter was exposed to her father having a tantrum because he could not get his own way. It's certainly one of the most ignorant displays I've seen and I am only happy that I was not physically present at the time.

I personally hope he suffers the maximum embarrassment and penalty as a result because Thais deserve so much better from the expats who choose to make their home there.

Well said Nick.

[flyingsporran]

Despite having a warrant from the CCTV footage the BTS refused to give it to John Behan but did eventually (after several days) give it to police. Unfortunately people have only seen John Behan's behaviour after the first attack and prior to the second attack on the train platform. He did not catch the train btw. Of course ample apologies were handed out

What's a Warrant? Of course the BTS refused to give the Video to Behan, not only is it their property it is also evidence in a potential criminal investigation.

I am sure it was handed over when the police asked for it however because they have the right to demand it - Behan, and incidentally you, has no such right.

I have seen no claims from anyone that they have viewed the CCTV footage of the start off this incident - do you have a Link or evidence?

Who "handed out" apologies?

BTS have certainly NOT apologised to Behan - as confirmed by his wife when she reported the alleged telephone threat to the police. The family received flowers but that was intended simply to show sympathy for the distress the incident caused the family.

Patrick

Patrick if you go by what you are reading in the local media and you have to be very selective because many contradictory statements have been made.

I am amazed you state unequivocably what is in the mind of the transit authority. I have pretty much read it all now. The balloons were filled with a dangerous gas hydrogen. Wrong. Helium, wrong. The foreigner is being prosecuted for breaking BTS rules. Wrong. He kicked woman. He kicked a guard. Wrong.( At least in the first assault. The second was a melee when he was injured from being with a truncheon, hence the five stitches.)

He did have a warrant for the material btw. The police eventually got it. It is his right to obtain a warrant for the material if it is known evidence in a court case he is bringing. The fact that you have seen no claims from people who have seen the CCTV is neither here nor there, but even a representative of Channel 3 has seen it. Should they ring you up and tell you or post here?

[chooka]

When i read about this I think of what would have happened in Canada, if he didnot comply with a quards request. Here is what I think would have happened especially if he tried to force his way through with the balloons. He would have probably been tasered. Then balloons and him taken to local police station and his wife and child would have had to arrange bail. He would have had to go to court and probably have a criminal record at the end of it all. He and his family should apologize to the quard, the BTS and pay the quard for lost wages , pain and suffering.

A public apology would help alot.

New York and he probably would have been shot...

Australia, detained, maybe arrested, most likely fined couple of hundred dollars...or, staff don't want to get involved and pretend nothing happened.

In Australia (Victoria) arrested under sect 458 C.A handed to police who upon forming I.D would release him, as only Summary Offence with maybe a fine or possible summons.

[Thaddeus]

It is not the publics right to have access to the CCTV; this is between the Irish passenger and BTS.

It's been made public by one video I'm afraid, so it should all be made public. BTS refusing to release the CCTV footage makes this whole thing smell quite badly.

I certainly agree that the BTS video should be made public...

But there are two different things going on here... The video that was made public came from some kind of private citizen...not the BTS...

And now that there's a pending police investigation (supposedly), I can understand why the BTS wouldn't be throwing the video into the public domain. And frankly, that's not their role in such matters.

I concur (sorry for the late reply, been busy)

Yes, the original youtube clip came from a member of the public who can do with it what they will and the CCTV coverage is owned by the BTS who say that they are investigating with the help of the police, but it damages the BTS credibility and causes wild speculations to start on internet forums such as this one, the police don't have a shred of credibility to begin with.... and how many times has video evidence here gone missing or been accidentally damaged.... or just swept under the carpet until everyone has forgotten about it.

Plus, one of the involved parties has allegedly received a life threatening phone call, so the real evidence should be released sooner rather than later..... but I expect it is heel dragging time again, and the only one really suffering is the farang again, who although obviously not totally blameless may be getting beaten with a shittier stick than he deserves.

[BookMan]

Despite having a warrant from the CCTV footage the BTS refused to give it to John Behan but did eventually (after several days) give it to police. Unfortunately people have only seen John Behan's behaviour after the first attack and prior to the second attack on the train platform. He did not catch the train btw. Of course ample apologies were handed out

What's a Warrant? Of course the BTS refused to give the Video to Behan, not only is it their property it is also evidence in a potential criminal investigation.

I am sure it was handed over when the police asked for it however because they have the right to demand it - Behan, and incidentally you, has no such right.

I have seen no claims from anyone that they have viewed the CCTV footage of the start off this incident - do you have a Link or evidence?

Who "handed out" apologies?

BTS have certainly NOT apologised to Behan - as confirmed by his wife when she reported the alleged telephone threat to the police. The family received flowers but that was intended simply to show sympathy for the distress the incident caused the family.

Patrick

Patrick if you go by what you are reading in the local media and you have to be very selective because many contradictory statements have been made.

I am amazed you state unequivocably what is in the mind of the transit authority. I have pretty much read it all now. The balloons were filled with a dangerous gas hydrogen. Wrong. Helium, wrong. The foreigner is being prosecuted for breaking BTS rules. Wrong. He kicked woman. He kicked a guard. Wrong.( At least in the first assault. The second was a melee when he was injured from being with a truncheon, hence the five stitches.)

He did have a warrant for the material btw. The police eventually got it. It is his right to obtain a warrant for the material if it is known evidence in a court case he is bringing. The fact that you have seen no claims from people who have seen the CCTV is neither here nor there, but even a representative of Channel 3 has seen it. Should they ring you up and tell you or post here?

Well, if you could ask channel 3 to post it here, it would be appreciated, sure.

Edited March 25, 2012 by BookMan

[tezzaaa]

From the vid I looked at, where you see the incident from the beginning, the guard did nothing wrong:

http://multimedia.asiaone.com/Multimedia/Story/A1Multimedia20120322-14044.html

The irish guy was really aggressive and acted violently first.. He probably thought he could act like an immature spoilt brat and a thug because he is a foreigner and get away with it..

The sad thing is the security guard has now lost his job.

If this idiot get 'a visit from someone' at his door as a result then it will be a perfect opportunity for him to show whether he is a real man or a little spoilt brat...

[flyingsporran]

From many years in Thailand, and also reporting on similar attacks, I am writing from confidence that foriegners can be attacked for very little reason, when the attacker believes he has the power in that situation. Its a fact of life. Normally these situations can be avoided. But there are cases when they cannot. Many Thais are horrified at this attack. At the moment we are just hearing from the noisy foreigners and their equivalent.

John Behan was not drunk during that video - he had been clobbered sevaral times and I am sure his adrenalin was up.

It's rather interesting that i've been living in Thailand for years and have used the public transportation a lot and never encountered Thais getting violent with me. Amazing isn't it? Gee, I wonder why.

Me too. Means nothing.

Edited March 25, 2012 by flyingsporran

[F4UCorsair]

Flying Sporran, Have you, or have you not, seen the CCTV footage?

If so, how did you gain access to it.

[TheWalkingMan]

From the vid I looked at, where you see the incident from the beginning, the guard did nothing wrong:

http://multimedia.as...0322-14044.html

The irish guy was really aggressive and acted violently first.. He probably thought he could act like an immature spoilt brat and a thug because he is a foreigner and get away with it..

The sad thing is the security guard has now lost his job.

If this idiot get 'a visit from someone' at his door as a result then it will be a perfect opportunity for him to show whether he is a real man or a little spoilt brat...

That looks like part two of the incident. Even on the tape, the voice over mentions that people are waiting for the CCTV. Did you view and listen to the link you posted?

[katana]

The power of video.

The simple act of catching part of this whole affair on video has been to bring it to the public attention in Thailand. It has run extensively across the main media and been given a lot of TV airtime (radio also I presume), online forums, newspapers etcetera. I'm sure dozens of forums about Thailand like this one have also been hot with the debate and speculation.

Had this not been caught on video it would almost certainly have been a non story.

I was reading the Pantip thread on the incident. The initial post was by John Behan's Thai wife laying out what happened and asking for witness photos and footage of the incident. However, what followed was a stream of posts from Thais with anti-farang sentiment, giving sympathy to the guards, stating farangs were arrogant and believed that they could do what they want in Thailand and telling farangs to get out of Thailand. Same on the Sanuk message board.

In one of the first articles, it said the wife was not present;but, was called and told her husband was in some problems at the BTS.

SO.... She is likely going off what her husband told her and she likely has no clue what the BTS CCTV video will show.

The wife stated that she was invited to BTS headquarters with her family to view the CCTV footage and has seen it.

Edited March 25, 2012 by katana

[p_brownstone]

Despite having a warrant from the CCTV footage the BTS refused to give it to John Behan but did eventually (after several days) give it to police. Unfortunately people have only seen John Behan's behaviour after the first attack and prior to the second attack on the train platform. He did not catch the train btw. Of course ample apologies were handed out

What's a Warrant? Of course the BTS refused to give the Video to Behan, not only is it their property it is also evidence in a potential criminal investigation.

I am sure it was handed over when the police asked for it however because they have the right to demand it - Behan, and incidentally you, has no such right.

I have seen no claims from anyone that they have viewed the CCTV footage of the start off this incident - do you have a Link or evidence?

Who "handed out" apologies?

BTS have certainly NOT apologised to Behan - as confirmed by his wife when she reported the alleged telephone threat to the police. The family received flowers but that was intended simply to show sympathy for the distress the incident caused the family.

Patrick

Patrick if you go by what you are reading in the local media and you have to be very selective because many contradictory statements have been made.

I am amazed you state unequivocably what is in the mind of the transit authority. I have pretty much read it all now. The balloons were filled with a dangerous gas hydrogen. Wrong. Helium, wrong. The foreigner is being prosecuted for breaking BTS rules. Wrong. He kicked woman. He kicked a guard. Wrong.( At least in the first assault. The second was a melee when he was injured from being with a truncheon, hence the five stitches.)

He did have a warrant for the material btw. The police eventually got it. It is his right to obtain a warrant for the material if it is known evidence in a court case he is bringing. The fact that you have seen no claims from people who have seen the CCTV is neither here nor there, but even a representative of Channel 3 has seen it. Should they ring you up and tell you or post here?

Well, if you could ask channel 3 to post it here, it would be appreciated, sure.

Yes please - alternatively give a Link to a Channel 3 Newscast where the "Representative" describes exactly what he saw on that Video - Channel 3 are not known for their reticence when they believe they have a "scoop" so I am sure you or they can provide the evidence in one form or another!

Patrick

[flyingsporran]

Flying Sporran, Have you, or have you not, seen the CCTV footage?

If so, how did you gain access to it.

I usually provide new information on my site F4UCorsair. Here I am merely giving widely known information that people appear to have missed.

[p_brownstone]

The wife stated that she was invited to BTS headquarters with her family to view the CCTV footage and has seen it.

Any Link to that statement by his wife?

Did she simply say she had "seen it"? I should imagine she would have given a much more detailed description of exactly what she had seen.

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

Flying Sporran, Have you, or have you not, seen the CCTV footage?

If so, how did you gain access to it.

I usually provide new information on my site F4UCorsair. Here I am merely giving widely known information that people appear to have missed.

I'd be interested to see your site and the "new information" it contains - could you provide a (hate to ask you again!) Link?

Patrick

[flyingsporran]

Good point Patrick. I fear it if were to post it I might be accused of damaging Thailand. Call up C3 and ask them when they're using it.

[katana]

...Any Link to that statement by his wife?...

Patrick

See here and links contained therein.

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5153793

Edited March 25, 2012 by katana

[BookMan]

Flying Sporran, Have you, or have you not, seen the CCTV footage?

If so, how did you gain access to it.

I usually provide new information on my site F4UCorsair. Here I am merely giving widely known information that people appear to have missed.

I'd be interested to see your site and the "new information" it contains - could you provide a (hate to ask you again!) Link?

Patrick

I'm not sure he is allowed to post a link to a site he has himself. You could try

'andrew-drummond.com' though

[jerrybuice]

I don't think the guy and his family wouldn't be begging for the footage to be released if it showed him asking for it. Unless a verbal argument is now considered asking for it. Which many here believe is the case.

However, he should have known not to get in a verbal argument to begin with, especially with a lower class untrained rent a cop. Thailand is generally a pleasant and non confrontational society, but the flipside to this is that some Thais are carrying around years of suppressed anger and frustration and when it finally explodes it isn't pretty.

I have only been in country 4 weeks...I noticed as soon as I started using the subway that there were signs stating that NO BALLOONS ALLOWED..It does not take a rocket scientist to realise that that notice was for EVERYONE not just the "lower class" as you stated in you message. Why do white people (and I am one of them) think the rules and laws are for everyone but them (I am NOT one of them)?

[p_brownstone]

Good point Patrick. I fear it if were to post it I might be accused of damaging Thailand. Call up C3 and ask them when they're using it.

Disappointing, but not surprising - though not quite sure which "point" impressed you.

I had hoped your earlier Post was an offer to use your influence and Contacts with Channel 3 to have them Post irrefutable evidence here (you obviously have such influence and Contacts since you know one of their Representatives has seen the Video).

Ah well, I have been disappointed by bombast before and doubtless will be again.

Patrick

Edited March 25, 2012 by p_brownstone

[SOTIRIOS]

My 2 cents worth,

I saw some of the video. It was not a bunch of balloons, it was a balloon flower, such as are often given to children at countless events around Thailand.

This was, apparently, a parting gift, or souvenir from his daughter's school, for end of term. If you have children, or were a child ever, yourself, you know these mementos are priceless.

So that, combined with the fact that he was allowed to enter the BTS system to begin with, do not warrant the overzealous reaction by the guard. If he is uneducated, as some claim, then why was he hired? This is a human issue and one has to beg, would a Thai person have been treated the same way...or if there were a group of Thai parents returning home from the last day of school, all carrying balloon flowers or animals?

To deny that xenophobia, or something worse, exists in Thailand would be ignorant. Too often, the 'rules' are not applied the same way to foreigners as they might be applied to Thais. 'Us', in the Thai language, excludes any others.

To be bashed in the face with a metal detector, alone, cannot be condoned. To be bashed in the face with a metal detetctor because you refuse to dispose of your daughter's innocuous balloon flower, which you were allowed to carry into the BTS system, to begin with, is criminal assault, I would think or at least, gross misconduct. I doubt that a Thai would have been bashed in the face with a metal detector under the same circumstances...

The victim, the farang, should not be further blamed and threatened due to improper hiring, then improper handling/firing of BTS staff...

Another nightmare, that only us, foreigners, seem to walk in to, all too often.

[p_brownstone]

Flying Sporran, Have you, or have you not, seen the CCTV footage?

If so, how did you gain access to it.

I usually provide new information on my site F4UCorsair. Here I am merely giving widely known information that people appear to have missed.

I'd be interested to see your site and the "new information" it contains - could you provide a (hate to ask you again!) Link?

Patrick

I'm not sure he is allowed to post a link to a site he has himself. You could try

'andrew-drummond.com' though

Thanks BookMan - that was inferred in a couple of earlier Posts and I was basically just seeking confirmation.

I have read that site and seen the "new information" - with all contradictory or contending Posts quickly removed !

Patrick

[wintermute]

To be bashed in the face with a metal detetctor because you refuse to dispose of your daughter's innocuous balloon flower, which you were allowed to carry into the BTS system, to begin with, is criminal assault, I would think or at least, gross misconduct. I doubt that a Thai would have been bashed in the face with a metal detector under the same circumstances...

The victim, the farang, should not be further blamed and threatened due to improper hiring, then improper handling/firing of BTS staff...

Another nightmare, that only us, foreigners, seem to walk in to, all too often.

If one BTS official allowed it when the rules explicitly said it was not allowed then they messed up. If the second BTS official said it wasn't allowed then he should have followed the guidelines instead of acting belligerent and making things much worse for himself and his family. Using his child as an excuse is disgusting to me. He could have defused it at any point by exercising common sense. Balloons not allowed? OK fine. I'll take a taxi. 200 baht. No big deal, life goes on.

The issue here is this Irish man felt so self entitled that he forced the issue and reacted with anger. That's a distinct no no in Thai culture. This just escalated things into what we see now.

Edited March 25, 2012 by wintermute

[Ulysses G.]

I saw some of the video. It was not a bunch of balloons, it was a balloon flower

He was carrying a bunch of balloons in the video that I saw. I keep wondering why he still had them after supposedly being beaten unmercifully twice.

[bangkok101]

Me too Ulysses. No guard, no matter how undertrained, would just clobber a traveler for the hell of it.

Interesting that the wife has said there has been no apology and there are those on other threads swearing that the BTS management has apologized, so therefore BTS guards must have been in the wrong, at best cock eyed logic, and at worst, just plain foolish in a country where 'face' is so important..

So then why is it being reported that the guard was sacked? If he attacked a baloon weilding skytrain user, it is obvious that the guard is inept and poorly trained, or both!

[Ulysses G.]

There is one report that he was not actually a BTS employee and just moved to a different location for PR reasons, rather than sacked.

[mrdome]

....no security guard has the right to club the guy on the head....

Yes, they do and they routinely do it all over the world. The clubs are not for show only and these guys have the authority, which you accept by entering the system with your ticket.

The big question is how did it get to the point of the clubbing? As we don't know, we simply cannot say if it was justified or not based on the actions of the other party. Nothing to do with "hatred of their own kind at all". If it were Thai-on-Thai, I'd still say the same thing.

Edited March 25, 2012 by mrdome

[wintermute]

The only thing about this situation that i'm concerned about is the feeble use of a metal detector as a cudgel and not a proper PR-24 baton to subdue belligerent Irish yobbos. Perhaps Thai security should be equipped with batons and pepper spray and trained in the usage of them in these situations. Instead of slicing him on the head they could have just sprayed n' cuffed him until the local gendarmes came to assess this situation.