Racism Against Farangs

[David48]

aneliane

thanks for being brave enough to enter back into the conversation.

I know that you are getting some hard edged advice.

Sometimes people was want to talk about things rather then an answer to a question.

[YipYipYa123]

even my thai wife who is very well educated (by thai standards ) laughed when i told her and said its true

"thai people believe ,if youre walking down a road at night ,and in front of you is an indian and a snake ,you SHOULD hit the indian over the head

and kill it FIRST and then do the snake "

i was in stitches when i heard it but apparently its just an old thai proverb or something

[chrisinth]

I went to my local char kway teow stall - highly respected for more than 20 years, apparently, and I was stood there waiting to get served while the fella busied himself with other customers, many of whom arrived after I did. I put it down to ignorance rather than racism - my ignorance, since I did not know the correct way to call over his attention. Mgoy? Uncle? Laoban? Hey- Jimmy? If my language skills had been better I might have said "Excuse me, two pints of lager and a packet of crisps, PLEASE. I've been here half an hour and I'm getting very thirsty. WHY WON'T YOU SERVE ME?" or something equivalent and more relevant. But I didn't, because they're not.

SC

EDIT: Then he could have had the opportunity to exhibit his racism, and tell me "piss off, you miserable Scotch git", but I don't think his language skills were up to it, either.

Extremely good point SC and something that is often overlooked/ignored. The ignorance or lack of understanding of the offended Falang can make a situation appear as something it isn't.

You're probably right about his language skill not being up to it or he might have said that...............

[Kilgore Trout]

I never said such things about Thais

Thais people like everywhere could be nice or not so nice, but Thai government is making sure that they direct any frustration they might have against foreigners, (hence not towards their corrupted leaders) by teaching them everytime they have the chance that farangs are inferiors races, and are the source of all their problems

I think the ones who are not racist here -and they are alot very tolerant people and nice people - are bloody saints because they don't believe the crap they are taught and risk constantly to be regarded as some type of traitor to the nation by the others

You didn't use the term "tossers," but the point is still relevant whichever term you would use to point out the ignorant and "racist" behaviour you have described.

[theblether]

No because it's not being said with malice and, frankly, they just don't know any better so one has to use one's common sense to see/hear it in the spirit with which it was said. It's just not racist.

Even a white girl well versed in the machinations of political correctness saying it in a playful manner wouldn't be considered racist - well, not by me anyway.

The N-word is a red card unless you're singing along to a Snoop Dog track.

The whole PC thing in England started to gain traction when I was in my teens. For example, mixed race people (black/white parents) were called "half-caste or half jacks. It wasn't racist to us and our half-caste mates but society suddenly decided it was so I guess everyone fell into line. When the nursery rhyme "Baa Baa Black Sheep" was set upon by the PC brigade, you could hear the entire black population of the country let out a collective groan of embarrassment at the notion that the rhyme was somehow offensive to them.

Here in Thailand, one doesn't have to worry about that nonsense unless of course, you really believe that the term farang is a racist slur.

Top post HS.

I completely concur that you have to take intent as a key factor when determining whether something is racist or not, and that's what the PC brigade don't understand. When a bargirl calls a black guy 'chocolate man' it's part ignorance, part jovial, part sheer lack of familiarity. There is no hate or malice intended.

To hear other posters say that being charged 20 baht extra for a haircut is racist is palpable nonsense - it's opportunism, that's all. There is no hate or malice involved in it. At best it can be called economic profiling in that instance.

+1

Full respect to HS

The OP should get off her extraordinarily high horse and take a lesson from HS

HS has indicated that he was at the receiving end of racism in the UK, we Brits are more than prepared to believe him and we cringe at some of the stereotyping of yesteryear.

The OP is demonstrating throughout this thread that the problem lies within her.

I join SC in retiring gracefully from this thread, some people cannot be helped.

[Berkshire]

No because it's not being said with malice and, frankly, they just don't know any better so one has to use one's common sense to see/hear it in the spirit with which it was said. It's just not racist.

Even a white girl well versed in the machinations of political correctness saying it in a playful manner wouldn't be considered racist - well, not by me anyway.

The N-word is a red card unless you're singing along to a Snoop Dog track.

The whole PC thing in England started to gain traction when I was in my teens. For example, mixed race people (black/white parents) were called "half-caste or half jacks. It wasn't racist to us and our half-caste mates but society suddenly decided it was so I guess everyone fell into line. When the nursery rhyme "Baa Baa Black Sheep" was set upon by the PC brigade, you could hear the entire black population of the country let out a collective groan of embarrassment at the notion that the rhyme was somehow offensive to them.

Here in Thailand, one doesn't have to worry about that nonsense unless of course, you really believe that the term farang is a racist slur.

Top post HS.

I completely concur that you have to take intent as a key factor when determining whether something is racist or not, and that's what the PC brigade don't understand. When a bargirl calls a black guy 'chocolate man' it's part ignorance, part jovial, part sheer lack of familiarity. There is no hate or malice intended.

To hear other posters say that being charged 20 baht extra for a haircut is racist is palpable nonsense - it's opportunism, that's all. There is no hate or malice involved in it. At best it can be called economic profiling in that instance.

+1

Full respect to HS

The OP should get off her extraordinarily high horse and take a lesson from HS

HS has indicated that he was at the receiving end of racism in the UK, we Brits are more than prepared to believe him and we cringe at some of the stereotyping of yesteryear.

The OP is demonstrating throughout this thread that the problem lies within her.

I join SC in retiring gracefully from this thread, some people cannot be helped.

Concur with all you guys. HS knows about real racism and what we have here in Thailand is nothing of the sort. Not even close.

[HardenedSoul]

Not a lot, no but on the few occasions there has been tension, it's always involved white men who've had a skinful.

No shock there, it's well known on this forum that I am Scottish, there is a certain contingent of Englishmen who get a skin-full and have a go at me too based upon my background, but that's not racism ( some people would argue that it is ) that's cultural?? or ignorance?? I think I would call it ignorance.

Thais are known for saying what they see, If I called you chocolate man you would quite rightly go wild, but if a Thai girl calls you chocolate man you think it's hysterical.

Let's not play games, you would know that I would be having a go at you for saying that to you, and it's unacceptable.............are you not creating an ongoing problem by reacting the way you do to being called it by Thais?

No because it's not being said with malice and, frankly, they just don't know any better so one has to use one's common sense to see/hear it in the spirit with which it was said. It's just not racist.

Even a white girl well versed in the machinations of political correctness saying it in a playful manner wouldn't be considered racist - well, not by me anyway.

The N-word is a red card unless you're singing along to a Snoop Dog track.

The whole PC thing in England started to gain traction when I was in my teens. For example, mixed race people (black/white parents) were called "half-caste or half jacks. It wasn't racist to us and our half-caste mates but society suddenly decided it was so I guess everyone fell into line. When the nursery rhyme "Baa Baa Black Sheep" was set upon by the PC brigade, you could hear the entire black population of the country let out a collective groan of embarrassment at the notion that the rhyme was somehow offensive to them.

Here in Thailand, one doesn't have to worry about that nonsense unless of course, you really believe that the term farang is a racist slur.

I admire you for your common sense, I miss the days in the UK when common sense was allowed.

If you had any advice to give to any people of your background coming to Thailand on holiday or to live what would it be?

Not sure really but I'd suggest that if you want your stay here to be pleasant and relatively trouble-free, it'd be wise to learn to distinguish between ignorance and bigotry.

[bendix]

I join SC in retiring gracefully from this thread, some people cannot be helped.

Me too, except to add just one thing.

As a tall, white, blue eyed and fair-haired westerner, I feel I am at a huge advantage to the local Thai population. The idea that I am subject to racist treatment is absolute nonsense. On the contrary, I am treated with respect courtesy and good feeling everywhere I go at best, or mute indifference at worst.

[brit1984]

Me too, except to add just one thing...

Dear OP,

I am sorry if I (or other posters) were a bit harsh on this thread. I think your initial post was just asking to be ripped apart. I assume you now realise you are not a victim of racism, and I hope you are happy about that.

I also hope our paths meet again on TV as my view on life is very different to yours, which could make for some interesting debate and humorous banter.

Yours sincerely, brit1984

[HidyHo]

Trolling comes to my mind ...

[HardenedSoul]

Trolling comes to my mind ...

Oh how insightful . . .

The rest of us just completely missed it

[StreetCowboy]

Trolling comes to my mind ...

Good idea. I'm off.

SC

[draftvader]

Trolling comes to my mind ...

Yeah, but it was fun. We all know plenty of people that feel like this (and, surely, at some time we all have). So maybe it has helped anyway?

[aneliane]

Me too, except to add just one thing...

Dear OP,

I am sorry if I (or other posters) were a bit harsh on this thread. I think your initial post was just asking to be ripped apart. I assume you now realise you are not a victim of racism, and I hope you are happy about that.

I also hope our paths meet again on TV as my view on life is very different to yours, which could make for some interesting debate and humorous banter.

Yours sincerely, brit1984

I think you should look into your own self, as to why you need to be in such denial

What is so extraordinary about someone experiencing racist ?

In every country you have people thinking that foreigners should not come to their land.

Why would Thailand be THE exception.

Thai people are just like everywhere.

You are not in Lalaland.

Deal with it

[inthepink]

You seem to be the one who cannot deal with it.

[F1fanatic]

Me too, except to add just one thing...

Dear OP,

I am sorry if I (or other posters) were a bit harsh on this thread. I think your initial post was just asking to be ripped apart. I assume you now realise you are not a victim of racism, and I hope you are happy about that.

I also hope our paths meet again on TV as my view on life is very different to yours, which could make for some interesting debate and humorous banter.

Yours sincerely, brit1984

I think you should look into your own self, as to why you need to be in such denial

What is so extraordinary about someone experiencing racist ?

In every country you have people thinking that foreigners should not come to their land.

Why would Thailand be THE exception.

Thai people are just like everywhere.

You are not in Lalaland.

Deal with it

So you agree that all 'countries' are racist - but needed to start a thread about racism in Thailand? Why?

[aneliane]

Nationalism and racism are NOT the same thing.

I know and comparing indians to snakes IS racism.

Giving twice a hard time at army to a 16 years old just because he's half farang IS racist

Refusing to serve farang where Thai are served is racism

Telling someone who come to ER at 12 oclock at night with and open wound possibly by animal infected by rabies, to go a private clinic to have his wound cleaned and disinfected is racist and also total lack of medical ethos.

Making wait the farang after every other Thai person is served regardless of queue is racist

[aneliane]

I never said such things about Thais

Thais people like everywhere could be nice or not so nice, but Thai government is making sure that they direct any frustration they might have against foreigners, (hence not towards their corrupted leaders) by teaching them everytime they have the chance that farangs are inferiors races, and are the source of all their problems

I think the ones who are not racist here -and they are alot very tolerant people and nice people - are bloody saints because they don't believe the crap they are taught and risk constantly to be regarded as some type of traitor to the nation by the others

You didn't use the term "tossers," but the point is still relevant whichever term you would use to point out the ignorant and "racist" behaviour you have described.

No I don't think any nationality is made of tossers;

That would be completely stupid

[aneliane]

No because it's not being said with malice and, frankly, they just don't know any better so one has to use one's common sense to see/hear it in the spirit with which it was said. It's just not racist.

Even a white girl well versed in the machinations of political correctness saying it in a playful manner wouldn't be considered racist - well, not by me anyway.

The N-word is a red card unless you're singing along to a Snoop Dog track.

The whole PC thing in England started to gain traction when I was in my teens. For example, mixed race people (black/white parents) were called "half-caste or half jacks. It wasn't racist to us and our half-caste mates but society suddenly decided it was so I guess everyone fell into line. When the nursery rhyme "Baa Baa Black Sheep" was set upon by the PC brigade, you could hear the entire black population of the country let out a collective groan of embarrassment at the notion that the rhyme was somehow offensive to them.

Here in Thailand, one doesn't have to worry about that nonsense unless of course, you really believe that the term farang is a racist slur.

Top post HS.

I completely concur that you have to take intent as a key factor when determining whether something is racist or not, and that's what the PC brigade don't understand. When a bargirl calls a black guy 'chocolate man' it's part ignorance, part jovial, part sheer lack of familiarity. There is no hate or malice intended.

To hear other posters say that being charged 20 baht extra for a haircut is racist is palpable nonsense - it's opportunism, that's all. There is no hate or malice involved in it. At best it can be called economic profiling in that instance.

+1

Full respect to HS

The OP should get off her extraordinarily high horse and take a lesson from HS

HS has indicated that he was at the receiving end of racism in the UK, we Brits are more than prepared to believe him and we cringe at some of the stereotyping of yesteryear.

The OP is demonstrating throughout this thread that the problem lies within her.

I join SC in retiring gracefully from this thread, some people cannot be helped.

Spite and hate has nothing graceful

No one need that

good riddance at last

Edited March 31, 2012 by aneliane

[F1fanatic]

Nationalism and racism are NOT the same thing.

I know and comparing indians to snakes IS racism.

Giving twice a hard time at army to a 16 years old just because he's half farang IS racist

Refusing to serve farang where Thai are served is racism

Telling someone who come to ER at 12 oclock at night with and open wound possibly by animal infected by rabies, to go a private clinic to have his wound cleaned and disinfected is racist and also total lack of medical ethos.

Making wait the farang after every other Thai person is served regardless of queue is racist

As is - "In every country you have people thinking that foreigners should not come to their land.

Why would Thailand be THE exception."

I'm having a problem identifying how this quote of yours is any different to your original post - complaining that YOU were treated differently/badly?

[aneliane]

For those who are interested, dear ole Uncle Geoff (91) had a fall in hospital and the grey matter got knocked around a fair bit.

I'd hate to be a lost baby on the streets of Scotland, a lame Soi Dog in Bangkok ... but most of all I fear growing old and being alone. Not knowing that people cared about me ... or even worse that no-one cared about me.

Now I have a point of empathy with the OP ... I sense that she feels lonely, and maybe that feeling is manifested through a feeling of racism.

Right I am lonely (of course you know that because you know me so well) thereforeI think I am victim of racism ? lol

can we drop the : she's a looney topic?

As said previously other posters have pointed out similar experience

So unless we are all lunatics, please deal with ur bubble being burst

[theblether]

This topic has been nominated in the Thaivisa Troll of the Year 2012 Competition........nominations are still open here......

http://www.thaivisa....r-contest-2012/

It takes a special talent to fall out with so many members in one topic.

In recognition of her outstanding work in this topic, here is a special award for Aneliane.

You will find all your answers within it.

[David48]

theblether ... the cross linking ... that's blatant advertising!

Do you also moonlight as a mirror saleman?

[David48]

For those who are interested, dear ole Uncle Geoff (91) had a fall in hospital and the grey matter got knocked around a fair bit.

I'd hate to be a lost baby on the streets of Scotland, a lame Soi Dog in Bangkok ... but most of all I fear growing old and being alone. Not knowing that people cared about me ... or even worse that no-one cared about me.

Now I have a point of empathy with the OP ... I sense that she feels lonely, and maybe that feeling is manifested through a feeling of racism.

Right I am lonely (of course you know that because you know me so well) thereforeI think I am victim of racism ? lol

can we drop the : she's a looney topic?

As said previously other posters have pointed out similar experience

So unless we are all lunatics, please deal with ur bubble being burst

Apart from the close spelling ... how do you make the quantum leap from me saying you are lonely, to me saying you are loony?

[theblether]

theblether ... the cross linking ... that's blatant advertising!

Do you also moonlight as a mirror saleman?

Well I am a salesman to trade.......hence why I blether too much........I thought it was quite witty to be fair

[mauGR1]

Obviously the OP is having a hard time, i would avoid being to harsh to her, as we don't know all the facts.

Well, sometimes life is not fair, and the world is often a beautiful place only in our dreams, while is a jungle in reality..

Getting rid of negativity helps, positive thoughts attract positive things, IMHO.

Instead of blaming the others, start to work on yourself, the benefits will come almost immediately

[maxme]

I found this thread interesting as it´s as democratic as the former Thai government. Everyone is allowed to voice their opinions here but have one bad opinion about Thailand and you are bashed. I´m not saying the OP is completly accurate in her assessment but this kind of bashing makes me think that the the ones who do this are as uneducated and biased in their own assessments and shouldn´t throw rocks since sometimes those rocks are thrown back.

Edited March 31, 2012 by maxme

[brit1984]

Me too, except to add just one thing...

Dear OP,

I am sorry if I (or other posters) were a bit harsh on this thread. I think your initial post was just asking to be ripped apart. I assume you now realise you are not a victim of racism, and I hope you are happy about that.

I also hope our paths meet again on TV as my view on life is very different to yours, which could make for some interesting debate and humorous banter.

Yours sincerely, brit1984

I think you should look into your own self, as to why you need to be in such denial

What is so extraordinary about someone experiencing racist ?

In every country you have people thinking that foreigners should not come to their land.

Why would Thailand be THE exception.

Thai people are just like everywhere.

You are not in Lalaland.

Deal with it

I am disappointed you did not accept my apology but would like to wish you good luck for the future

[lovelaos]

May I ask if the OP is a French female? If so, may I suggest deodorant.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'm certainly no "Flash Harry" but am always getting lectured for taking taxis when there is "a perfectly good bus service", or eating at the local air-con restaurant when there is far cheaper delicious Thai food around...

By Thais? I've **never** come across either scenario in 12+ years of living here. I can tell some are looking down at me, but never actually been told anything like that, except by girls trying to not lose face as a mia farang kee nok.

By "half-naked" do you mean wearing a tee-shirt, shorts and flip-flops? I must say I have noticed a few Thai people dressed in such attire...

Sure, but not ones that can afford to look better, in a context where its expected. I've seen a few **very** wealthy Thais that are eccentric that way, but certainly not to the extent I've seen in the US, the UK and Australia.

Europeans tend to be more conservative, or conformist, or fashion conscious, whatever your POV.

I am always shocked how some Farangs are dressed. Sitting in a restaurant in short trouser and flip flops, while all Thais around have normal long trousers...and a hairy old mans leg isn't something beautiful

Shocked eh? Well obviously there are consequences for doing this, depending on the area and the context, but I find as long as you're spending heavily there's no lack of respect.

However if you're a "cheap charlie" that is, on a budget, then it's definitely worth dressing decently. Same with otherwise being "eccentric", which Thais definitely think of our slovenly dressing habits when we can afford to be presentable.

There is definitely a lack of respect for down-and-out farang, not just among the Thais, but many TVers as well.

Many people seem to feel they have the "right" to live in Thailand, forgetting it's actually a privilege for most of us subject to revocation at any time. Especially when we flout their social norms, they're really only happy to put up with us when we spend a fair bit of dosh. Once we're actually trying to live at a below-middle local standard of living - say 20-30k for most areas, they'd just as soon we go home.

Unless of course we're contributing to the community in ways they appreciate.

Which does not include lecturing them about animal rights, diet, environment or similar dogmas. Basically putting principles above smooth social interaction is a formula for trouble here.