Thailand Says No Talks With Southern Insurgents

[webfact]

Thailand says no talks with southern insurgents

Bangkok, April 3, 2012 (AFP) - The Thai government on Tuesday ruled out peace talks with militants in the deep south following the deadliest bomb attacks to rock the region in recent years.

Holding dialogue with one Muslim insurgent group could prompt retaliatory attacks by others as a show of strength, Deputy Prime Minister Yutthasak Sasiprapa said.

"I want to insist that the government has no policy to get involved in peace talks," said Yutthasak, a military general who oversees national security.

Suspected militants set off a series of car bombs in the far south on Saturday that killed 15 people and wounded hundreds.

In the town of Yala twin blasts killed 12 people and wounded more than 100, while a car bomb at a hotel in the city of Hat Yai triggered a fire that killed three people and injured more than 400, according to a new official toll.

The attacks marked an apparent escalation of a shadowy insurgency, without clearly stated aims, that has claimed thousands of lives since 2004.

The near-daily bomb or gun attacks are indiscriminate, targeting both soldiers and civilians, Buddhists and Muslims.

Thailand's army chief General Prayut Chan-O-Cha said Monday that more than 3,000 Muslim militants were involved in the violence.

The insurgents are not thought to be part of a global jihad movement but are instead rebelling against a long history of perceived discrimination against ethnic-Malay Muslims by successive Thai governments.

A state of emergency is in force in the worst-affected areas of the region, which rights campaigners say in effect gives the tens of thousands of military troops based in the area legal immunity and fuels rights abuses.

The governor of Songkhla province, where Hat Yai is located, on Tuesday offered a reward of 500,000 baht ($16,130) for information leading to the arrest of each of two suspects in the hotel blast filmed by security cameras.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2012-04-03

[Thai at Heart]

I read on another thread that the head of the army was quoted as saying the insurgents had "better watch out".

Such calm and constructive levels of discussion. I can't see that this is only going to get slowly worse and worse.

[WackySomchai]

Let us hope the government starts listening to the military now and stop their impotent attempts to negotiate with groups they believe are in control.

[webfact]

Defense Minister Hopes to Negotiate with Insurgency Groups

BANGKOK: -- The defense minister is willing to negotiate with southern insurgency groups to ease the situation in the Deep South.

Defense Minister Sukumpol Suwannathat said he will visit the car bomb crime scene at Hat Yai District in Songkhla Province and Yala Province this Friday.

The minister hopes to gain more information and proposed negotiations with insurgency groups. He admitted that negotiations will not be easy.

Sukumpol said he has no concern if the Malaysian foreign minister wants to bring up the bomb attack during the ASEAN Summit.

The minister also affirmed that both the Thai and Malaysian military have already discussed the issue.

Meanwhile, Provincial Police Region 9 Commander Police Lieutenant General Chaktip Chaijinda disclosed that officials have been able to identify suspects behind the car bombings in Hat Yai District and Yala Province from CCTV footage.

He also denied the rumor that one of the suspects has been arrested.

The Region 9 Police commander went on to say that the police will allow car and motorcycle owners to pick up their vehicles parked inside the Lee Gardens Plaza Hotel within two days.

A total of 200 cars and 280 motorcycles remain.

-- Tan Network 2012-04-03

[GarryP]

Let us hope the government starts listening to the military now and stop their impotent attempts to negotiate with groups they believe are in control.

It is my understanding that the military presence is one of the main problems driving the shitfest in the South. The claims that they are needed are an excuse for massive budget allocations, dirigibiles that don't fly, mine detectors that don't detect, etc. There's a hell of a lot of self interest involved.

The government has been advised by neutral third parties on what needs to be done, but following such advice will never happen. It would mean that government after government has been wrong and they would never admit to that.

[DNPBC0]

Let us hope the government starts listening to the military now and stop their impotent attempts to negotiate with groups they believe are in control.

On how exactly do you think/recommend the military will 'deal with it'?

[geriatrickid]

Let us hope the government starts listening to the military now and stop their impotent attempts to negotiate with groups they believe are in control.

On how exactly do you think/recommend the military will 'deal with it'?

Through use of the current strategy that has been an abject failure and only exacerbated the situation. The military has lost face in this latest tragedy as it appears to have been caught off guard. Unfortunately, in Thailand, the military does not answer to a civilian government. Whether its Yingluck, or Abhisit or Mr. Toilet or Tony Jah as PM, they still wouldn't accept direction from the government. IMHO, the military command in Bangkok is a major part of the problem. I am sure the provincial commanders and junior officers have a good idea of what needs to be done. There are alot of conscripts that just want to go home.

[chrisinth]

Let us hope the government starts listening to the military now and stop their impotent attempts to negotiate with groups they believe are in control.

On how exactly do you think/recommend the military will 'deal with it'?

Through use of the current strategy that has been an abject failure and only exacerbated the situation. The military has lost face in this latest tragedy as it appears to have been caught off guard. Unfortunately, in Thailand, the military does not answer to a civilian government. Whether its Yingluck, or Abhisit or Mr. Toilet or Tony Jah as PM, they still wouldn't accept direction from the government. IMHO, the military command in Bangkok is a major part of the problem. I am sure the provincial commanders and junior officers have a good idea of what needs to be done. There are alot of conscripts that just want to go home.

My tuppence worth.........

This is no place for conscripts; it should be the job of the regular army. Taking it a step further, it should be a properly trained regular army, trained in anti-insurgency. Whereas I wouldn't want to see a third party paramilatry force involved on the ground, there should be nothing wrong with them being involved in training. It has worked worldwide through "advisors".

Again, nothing should be done without sound intel. It is time to take the gloves off and get tough with the insurgents (this should have been done long ago).

This of course is dependent on whether talks with the rebels is out of the question.

[trainman34014]

So the Deputy PM doesn't want to talk to them but the Defense Minister does ! Usual left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing scenario in LOS. I think we need to start up a Farang dissident group as it seems to me we could take over the country with a bit of joined up thinking in about 6 months.

[moe666]

Thailand says, what good will not talking do to resolve the issue. More military, more money, more hard core a lot of good that will do.

[mowgus]

I've read more than once that these insurgents have no "clearly stated aims". Seems to me you can't negotiate with a group of people who don't want anything....other than to blow people up. It's one of those things where both sides are fighting and angry but they've forgotten why.

I've never been to the region but I have to think that not everyone in that area has an anti-Thai sentiment. Can anyone who has travelled there give insight? Do they seriously want to break away from Thailand because they're treated badly and quite different (as I read somewhere)? Or is that just press?

[lungmi]

To GK

Stupid comment, outside the historic reality, it's your style we know.

Edited April 3, 2012 by lungmi

[Thai at Heart]

Let us hope the government starts listening to the military now and stop their impotent attempts to negotiate with groups they believe are in control.

Despite 70 years of attempts, believe it or not armies are meant and trained to fight, not rule and not negotiate with base terrorists. Let the army shoot let anybody else negotiate.

[Steely Dan]

I've read more than once that these insurgents have no "clearly stated aims". Seems to me you can't negotiate with a group of people who don't want anything....other than to blow people up. It's one of those things where both sides are fighting and angry but they've forgotten why.

I've never been to the region but I have to think that not everyone in that area has an anti-Thai sentiment. Can anyone who has travelled there give insight? Do they seriously want to break away from Thailand because they're treated badly and quite different (as I read somewhere)? Or is that just press?

"No stated aims", Where have I heard that before? I suspect the unstated aim is Jihad, which in this case would mean returning lands which were once in Muslim control back to the Muslims. If you think that can be granted by negotiation with the population there still retaining Thai citizenship then indeed give it a try, personally I think this will be impossible so the violence will continue until either all the insurgents are killed or the Thais wash their hands of the 'troubled' provinces and leave.

[bigbamboo]

So the Deputy PM doesn't want to talk to them but the Defense Minister does ! Usual left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing scenario in LOS. I think we need to start up a Farang dissident group as it seems to me we could take over the country with a bit of joined up thinking in about 6 months.

Not take it over, just reorganise it a bit here and there for our beloved Thai hosts so it works better!

Edited April 3, 2012 by bigbamboo

[lungmi]

Her Majesty the King is เทพารักษ์ for all established religions in Thailand. His work was aborted by Thaksin first and now by his ignorant clingers.

It's not a fight between religions (only at the surface). See North Ireland.

[Thaddeus]

To GK

Stupid comment, outside the historic reality, it's your style we know.

Well, actually no, GK's comment is quite accurate, the problems in the south cannot be defined as x against y, it is way more complicated than that, the foot solders on the ground on both sides may only be x or y but I expect most of them are why? (on one side at least)

[nurofiend]

Her Majesty the King is เทพารักษ์ for all established religions in Thailand. His work was aborted by Thaksin first and now by his ignorant clingers.

It's not a fight between religions (only at the surface). See North Ireland.

His majesty the king?

Edited April 3, 2012 by nurofiend

[jerrysteve]

In my view over the years, Thailand has had 2 choices...They could have been part of the solution or part of the problem. It is unfortunate they have chosen the latter as which have directly led needless killings on both sides.

The resentment of the mulisms in those provinces has been brewing since the negoitions between the British and the Malaysian Government on who got this and who got that.

Even though Thailand may have wanted those provinces to begin with, the people have been treated by an unhappy parent (Thailand) against unhappy step children (the Muslims) who had absolutely no say whatsoever in the bargaining table.

It would be far better for Thailand to let go of them, and let them form a government on their own similar to the city state of Singapore. I believe that would go a long way towards resolving the killings.

Again, Thaland could have been part of the solution or part of the problem. They have chosen the latter and continue to so. Cutting off dialogue

is what children do.

[jerrysteve]

Cutting of dialogue is childish. People are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Cutting of diagolue is most certainly part the problem.

[folium]

Cutting of dialogue is childish. People are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Cutting of diagolue is most certainly part the problem.

The main point is that there can only be a political solution and that means all parties involved have to be brought to the table, grievances and issues addressed and a lasting political settlement achieved.

Tragically, exactly this was recommended in 2005. Former Prime Minister Anand Panyarachun was appointed as chairman of the National Reconciliation Commission (NRC), tasked with bringing peace back to the South.

Some of the NRC's main recommendations were:

to conduct a full and transparent enquiry into the 78 deaths at Tak Bai, and 19 alleged extra-judicial executions at Saba Yoi, both in 2004.

A trial of the four generals implicated in the Krue Se and Tak Bai incidents, to the fullest extent of the law, not merely disciplinary actions such as transfers.

Establish a special commission to investigate the disappearances in the southern provinces, many of which are suspected to be the result of kidnappings by state officials

Re-examine army and police rules of engagement in the south to better ensure human rights protection

End the unofficial policy of sending corrupt and failing officials to the southern provinces as a punishment post, thoroughly screen officials being transferred from other regions, and provide them with adequate cultural awareness training

Hire, where possible, local Malay Muslims in the local administration and security forces.

Not one of the NRC’s recommendations has ever been implemented or even revisited since.

[hellodolly]

Let us hope the government starts listening to the military now and stop their impotent attempts to negotiate with groups they believe are in control.

It is my understanding that the military presence is one of the main problems driving the shitfest in the South. The claims that they are needed are an excuse for massive budget allocations, dirigibiles that don't fly, mine detectors that don't detect, etc. There's a hell of a lot of self interest involved.

The government has been advised by neutral third parties on what needs to be done, but following such advice will never happen. It would mean that government after government has been wrong and they would never admit to that.

Government after government. This implies going back years care to identify the neutral third party and what that advice was.

Or are you just using this as an excuse to rant.

[hellodolly]

So the Deputy PM doesn't want to talk to them but the Defense Minister does ! Usual left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing scenario in LOS. I think we need to start up a Farang dissident group as it seems to me we could take over the country with a bit of joined up thinking in about 6 months.

Yes typical thinking.

My thoughts on the subject are what terrorist would agree to come into the public view and say if you do this I will quit killing innocent people.

Add the fact that there is probably several groups involved it would be hard to get them to all come out and admit that they indeed are responsible for the killing of innocent people. That they do not care if they are Muslim's, Buddhist's Christian's Jew's or Pagans makes no difference to them.

It would indeed be a different type of meeting.

As for a Farong dissident group We have TV

[hellodolly]

Cutting of dialogue is childish. People are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Cutting of diagolue is most certainly part the problem.

The main point is that there can only be a political solution and that means all parties involved have to be brought to the table, grievances and issues addressed and a lasting political settlement achieved.

Tragically, exactly this was recommended in 2005. Former Prime Minister Anand Panyarachun was appointed as chairman of the National Reconciliation Commission (NRC), tasked with bringing peace back to the South.

Some of the NRC's main recommendations were:

to conduct a full and transparent enquiry into the 78 deaths at Tak Bai, and 19 alleged extra-judicial executions at Saba Yoi, both in 2004.

A trial of the four generals implicated in the Krue Se and Tak Bai incidents, to the fullest extent of the law, not merely disciplinary actions such as transfers.

Establish a special commission to investigate the disappearances in the southern provinces, many of which are suspected to be the result of kidnappings by state officials

Re-examine army and police rules of engagement in the south to better ensure human rights protection

End the unofficial policy of sending corrupt and failing officials to the southern provinces as a punishment post, thoroughly screen officials being transferred from other regions, and provide them with adequate cultural awareness training

Hire, where possible, local Malay Muslims in the local administration and security forces.

Not one of the NRC’s recommendations has ever been implemented or even revisited since.

I was unaware of that commission. It sounds like they were trying to deal with the happenings in the Thaksin years. Prior to those years what was the problem. I know that Thailand didn't give a rat's ass what their religion was. As for sending corrupt and failing officials to the southern provinces. Where would you suggest they find that caliber of people to work in the government where for all they know their next door neighbor is planning on blowing their head off.

I do believe Yingluck has taken a step towards hiring local Malay Muslims in the local administration and security forces.

Just a idea could these attacks have been with the hope that no locals would step forward?

[Dibbler]

Let us hope the government starts listening to the military now and stop their impotent attempts to negotiate with groups they believe are in control.

On how exactly do you think/recommend the military will 'deal with it'?

Through use of the current strategy that has been an abject failure and only exacerbated the situation. The military has lost face in this latest tragedy as it appears to have been caught off guard. Unfortunately, in Thailand, the military does not answer to a civilian government. Whether its Yingluck, or Abhisit or Mr. Toilet or Tony Jah as PM, they still wouldn't accept direction from the government. IMHO, the military command in Bangkok is a major part of the problem. I am sure the provincial commanders and junior officers have a good idea of what needs to be done. There are alot of conscripts that just want to go home.

My tuppence worth.........

This is no place for conscripts; it should be the job of the regular army. Taking it a step further, it should be a properly trained regular army, trained in anti-insurgency. Whereas I wouldn't want to see a third party paramilatry force involved on the ground, there should be nothing wrong with them being involved in training. It has worked worldwide through "advisors".

Again, nothing should be done without sound intel. It is time to take the gloves off and get tough with the insurgents (this should have been done long ago).

This of course is dependent on whether talks with the rebels is out of the question.

The role of collecting intel is traditionally done by the thai border police. They work closely with people in communities and have some training in negotiation and resolving conflicts. They have a presence but they need to be at the front of this operation not just a supporting role. I think having the assistance of experience foreign counter insurgency advisors would really help. The US Is providing this kind of help in the philippines with the insurgency there

[chrisinth]

@ Dibbler

Sorry my reply function is playing up:

The compilation of intelligence should definitely not fall on the shoulders of one organization. Intelligence gathering should use any source available, and it is through the compilation of this information that the answers come. Before any offensive actions transpire, this part of the equation has to be correct.

That of course is where the problems arise; the lack of trust between different departments/organizations make cooperation difficult. A controlling body needs to be established.

Perhaps the above is happening now, as I have no insight into the intelligence organization here, but IMO this should be deemed as the first and most important step to addressing the problem.

As I mentioned before, this is not a theatre for conscripts. The incident earlier this year where innocent people were gunned down in the pickup, and the massacre that happened a few years ago when suspects were rounded up should never happen. Not only does this work in the favour of the insurgents by causing resentment and hatred from the locals, it is just plain wrong.

[edwinchester]

Absolute clowns.

Bring in an outside mediator to identify any common ground and begin talks. It may take years as in Northern Ireland but it stands much more chance than the present policy which just seems to be butting heads.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[Thai at Heart]

Not talking solves nothing. It is a patronising reply to a very serious issue.

Of course, talking supposes that you want to get to a point of peace, and it assumes that the other side wants to get to a point of peace. But without talking there can be no building of trust to start the process to peace.

[GarryP]

Let us hope the government starts listening to the military now and stop their impotent attempts to negotiate with groups they believe are in control.

It is my understanding that the military presence is one of the main problems driving the shitfest in the South. The claims that they are needed are an excuse for massive budget allocations, dirigibiles that don't fly, mine detectors that don't detect, etc. There's a hell of a lot of self interest involved.

The government has been advised by neutral third parties on what needs to be done, but following such advice will never happen. It would mean that government after government has been wrong and they would never admit to that.

Government after government. This implies going back years care to identify the neutral third party and what that advice was.

Or are you just using this as an excuse to rant.

Search for yourself. Many studies have been undertaken, papers and books published on the subject by scholars (Thai and foreign), international organizations, etc. No excuse for a rant. Both Democrat and Peu Thai (and its previous incarnations) have failed because they keep bowing to the military machine. No government can survive without support from the men in green so they gget to do what they want.

[xray]

I've read more than once that these insurgents have no "clearly stated aims". Seems to me you can't negotiate with a group of people who don't want anything....other than to blow people up. It's one of those things where both sides are fighting and angry but they've forgotten why.

I've never been to the region but I have to think that not everyone in that area has an anti-Thai sentiment. Can anyone who has travelled there give insight? Do they seriously want to break away from Thailand because they're treated badly and quite different (as I read somewhere)? Or is that just press?

"No stated aims", Where have I heard that before? I suspect the unstated aim is Jihad, which in this case would mean returning lands which were once in Muslim control back to the Muslims. If you think that can be granted by negotiation with the population there still retaining Thai citizenship then indeed give it a try, personally I think this will be impossible so the violence will continue until either all the insurgents are killed or the Thais wash their hands of the 'troubled' provinces and leave.

I spent some time in the three southern provinces in 2007. My thoughts then, as now, are that there is a range of feelings among the region's Muslim population. Some would like to remain a part of Thailand. There are also Muslims there that would very much like to break away from Thailand and live under an independent Islamic state, but are not willing to commit violent acts to achieve this. Then, obviously, there are those that are willing to commit such violent acts to achieve an independent Islamic state. Regarding the later group, my thoughts are similar to those expressed in post number 14 of this thread, quoted above.

Regarding the perception of the Thai military presence in these provinces as having been a failure, I wonder what would have transipred in the region had there been no military presence there over the last eight years: less atrocities, or more?

Edited April 4, 2012 by xray