Suicide Tourism

[bendix]

Anybody contemplating suicide to end their life should spare a thought for the poor unfortunates who have to clean up after them.

A woman killed herself by throwing herself off a high rise apartment building in HK a couple of days ago.

Sadly she landed on a foreign domestic worker who was walking on the pavement twenty stories below, killing her and them both.

[robblok]

I think Robblok, it might be an idea for you to stop looking for evidence of what Relgion says about Suicide and start looking at what it says about living life. As I say, pick your religion and go to the source documents - the books of fairy tales if you like.

Ignoring religion throughout life and then being concerned about what it has to say at the end of life seems to me to be a very odd thing.

If you truly believe religion to be simple fairy tales why would you suddenly care about it at the end of your life?

Forget it, live and die as you wish and stop looking for a scape goat for the doubts you seem to be having.

I don't care one bit about it. I just post the view of religion on suicide. Thing is that many religious people force their beliefs on others. That is the problem if religious people could accept that others don't believe like they do and force their views upon them. They will even try to get their beliefs forced upon other by making them law.

Personally i would not worry one bit about afterlife because i doubt there is an afterlife. I worry more about the religious people stopping me killing myself in a painless neat way. And because they don't like it its harder to do because its outlawed.

But don't you worry im not about to kill myself i got many good years ahead i might never ever kill myself. But i like to keep that right for myself and not have others decide for me if i can or cant do it.

[robblok]

Anybody contemplating suicide to end their life should spare a thought for the poor unfortunates who have to clean up after them.

A woman killed herself by throwing herself off a high rise apartment building in HK a couple of days ago.

Sadly she landed on a foreign domestic worker who was walking on the pavement twenty stories below, killing her and them both.

Stupid thing to do kill yourself that way endangering others. But because suicide is frowned upon there are not many good options left. Though i would certainly do it different if i choose to.

Not one of those ways that impact others even more, as the deed itself will always impact others.

[GuestHouse]

I don't care one bit about it.

Your constant ranting on the subject suggests otherwise.

[robblok]

I don't care one bit about it.

Your constant ranting on the subject suggests otherwise.

I don't care about my afterlife(don't believe in one), i do care about the subject of free choice to end my life. Two different subjects. Religion limits or tries to limit my free choice to do so.

Your post was about afterlife and so on so that was what i replied to. Also cutting part of my post way and taking it out of contex is not a nice thing to do.

Edited April 6, 2012 by robblok

[chrisinth]

My 25 satang worth..............

Talking about suicide and actually commiting suicide are two completely different animals. I have generally found that people who make public their intentions for suicide are attention seeking and rarely go through with it.

To plan for suicide like the OP's example gave, ie, when his money ran out he plans to end it all, to me is just talk. Us humans, by nature are very adaptable and will do almost anything to survive. It all depends on the circumstances at the time, and circumstances change all the time.

For someone to plan suicide in the future, they are using their mindset of the moment. For someone to be able to give a date & time to end it all, predicting what will happen between now and then............... Don't think so.

It takes a special person to be able to go through with it. Just hope the OP's friend doesn't have too many bad days between now and then. There isn't any coming back from that.

[submaniac]

Good post, Swiss 1960. So is the OP's topic.

I have a great life right now and I'm still acting like I'm 30, but I'm 72 and KNOW my time is limited...

Ian I've been meaning to tell you...we've all been reading your posts for some time and know what a really interesting and active life you lead. Like pictures with banana leaves, motorcycle adventures, fishing...etc. I AM in my 30's and you lead a more active life than I do. I've always believed that when people start acting and thinking like they're old...they become old. You are living proof of the theory. I say keep it up.

[robblok]

@chrisinth

I agree talking about it and doing it are 2 different things. But many people kill themselves so there are enough who go through with it.

I am not planning to kill myself but like to keep my options open. I know i rather die early then end up demented or with cancer. Life is not always worth living. Here in Thailand there are not many options for us. In my home country i could make a living will about this at a period that i am still sound of mind. But of course they wont kill you if its purely mental, they haven't gone that far yet.

[Gers1873]

Thailand is a country where it is almost impossible to find a vet who will willingly euthanize a sick dog. No matter how much the poor animal is suffering. The distress caused to a loving owner is never considered.

Based on the above it is extremely unlikely that euthanasia for humans would be favourably received.

The 'do it yourself'' option from Pattaya hotel balconies still seems the most viable alternative.

[robblok]

Thailand is a country where it is almost impossible to find a vet who will willingly euthanize a sick dog. No matter how much the poor animal is suffering. The distress caused to a loving owner is never considered.

Based on the above it is extremely unlikely that euthanasia for humans would be favourably received.

The 'do it yourself'' option from Pattaya hotel balconies still seems the most viable alternative.

Yes its not a good place to be old and in pain, because there are no option people do it in a way that impacts many others. That does not mean they are free of blame but it makes their action a bit more understandable.

But jumping can kill others.. it should not be done.

[chrisinth]

@chrisinth

I agree talking about it and doing it are 2 different things. But many people kill themselves so there are enough who go through with it.

I am not planning to kill myself but like to keep my options open. I know i rather die early then end up demented or with cancer. Life is not always worth living. Here in Thailand there are not many options for us. In my home country i could make a living will about this at a period that i am still sound of mind. But of course they wont kill you if its purely mental, they haven't gone that far yet.

True, if I discovered that I had a terminal illness, I would also like to keep my options open. I have had a great life and would hate to screw it up by destroying other peoples lives keeping me breathing when there is no hope.

What I was saying was more for the long term planning to top yourself with the motivation on having no money or means to support yourself. Nobody knows what the future holds. If the OP's friend is saying it is an option, then OK, but I still feel this is talk before human nature kicks in.

[robblok]

@chrisinth

I agree talking about it and doing it are 2 different things. But many people kill themselves so there are enough who go through with it.

I am not planning to kill myself but like to keep my options open. I know i rather die early then end up demented or with cancer. Life is not always worth living. Here in Thailand there are not many options for us. In my home country i could make a living will about this at a period that i am still sound of mind. But of course they wont kill you if its purely mental, they haven't gone that far yet.

True, if I discovered that I had a terminal illness, I would also like to keep my options open. I have had a great life and would hate to screw it up by destroying other peoples lives keeping me breathing when there is no hope.

What I was saying was more for the long term planning to top yourself with the motivation on having no money or means to support yourself. Nobody knows what the future holds. If the OP's friend is saying it is an option, then OK, but I still feel this is talk before human nature kicks in.

Maybe for you.. maybe not for me.. Just look at the amount of people jumping when the stock market broke down. Ill grant you that there are more who just go on living but there are always a few who do will kill themselves if there is no money anymore.

If that is a good reason.. that is up to them. Their choice.

[Swiss1960]

Euthanasia is a controversial subject,mostly due to the religious right.

Euthanasia is a controversial subject mostly because of its association with Eugenics and that fact that it was put into practice by the Nazis on an industrial scale. But let's not blame only the right, the British Fabians did much the early work that gave rise to the Nazi Eugenics and Euthanasia thinking.

The religious debate around Euthanasia is one largely relating to morality, the value of life, the responsibilities of the individual in society/family/relationships and the responsibility of family/friends and society to the individual. That suicide is not a choice that only impacts the individual and that it has far reaching impacts on the core of society, family and the very personal relationships we all have.

Feel free to trot out the 'I blame religion mantra' if it helps you place issues you do not understand in a box so you can put them to one side and forget about them.

I agree with this your sentence:

"The religious debate around Euthanasia is one largely relating to morality, the value of life, the responsibilities of the individual in society/family/relationships and the responsibility of family/friends and society to the individual."

But for the religious issues, I suggest you consult i.e. Wiki and read about suicide and religious view: Hinduism => accpeted; Buddhism => accepted IF in a quiet state of mind, you anyway get reborne either in a lower or higher state of mind; Christianity => mixed tending to see it as a sind, as all life is holy and belongs to God only to decide about ending it; Judaism => deadly sin; Islam => deadly sin except where the nutheads think suicide missions are ok when targeting infidels....

Christianity and Roman catholic church: Examples from Italy

=> Abortion is a deadly sind and mothers are still excommunicated (not only Italy, there have even been cases in Mexico where a woman was raped, got pregnant and then had abortion)

=> Doctors helping in assisted suicide are still threatened with excommunication

=> Catholic church raised a law suit (took 6 years) about a woman in coma since 5 years, because the husband wanted to end life support and let her go... when they lost the lawsuit, the church again threatened the doctors and husband with excommunication when they stop the machines...

So yes, I am sticking to my argument that some religions have a view about suicide that is completely against todays view of the society.

[Swiss1960]

and more more comment about your sentence:

"The religious debate around Euthanasia is one largely relating to morality, the value of life, the responsibilities of the individual in society/family/relationships and the responsibility of family/friends and society to the individual."

My sons know that I have a patients instruction for hospitals where I ask for the shutoff of machines keeping me alive, when their is no hope that I ever get out of coma (i.e. after an accident with brain injury). My sons know that I am member of Exit (one of the assisted suicide organisations in Switzerland) and they know and accept and they will support me if ever I decide to end my life based on hopeless situations like terminal cancer or Alzheimer in it's final stadium... and they will support me, because the love me and see that there is no more value to my life and the will take responsibility to help me end an unbearable suffering...

[CaptHaddock]

The problem with a long term plan like this is that the fellow in question believes he knows how he will feel when he is 70 and out of money, but otherwise in ok health. But he doesn't know how he will feel and the weight of evidence is that he will not want to go at the time since most people that age do not blithely commit suicide as a solution to their financial problems, although certainly some do. I have known people who talked like this and I found them just to be people who are too lazy or incompetent to plan their futures effectively.

Actually its just a plan like any other. You might not aprove of it but its a plan to say its not a plan is crazy. If its the best plan that remains to be seen. Your argument about he might feel different at that age is a valid one but invalid at the same time because with all plans things can change.

No, it's not a plan like any other. It's a refusal to plan. If at 70 he is surprised to find that life is not so bad after all (which is what most 70 year olds actually think), then he can figure out how to live when he is poor and has no options. Of course, plans have to change. That is why is is so important to preserve options instead of throwing them away carelessly. Sheesh.

[robblok]

The problem with a long term plan like this is that the fellow in question believes he knows how he will feel when he is 70 and out of money, but otherwise in ok health. But he doesn't know how he will feel and the weight of evidence is that he will not want to go at the time since most people that age do not blithely commit suicide as a solution to their financial problems, although certainly some do. I have known people who talked like this and I found them just to be people who are too lazy or incompetent to plan their futures effectively.

Actually its just a plan like any other. You might not aprove of it but its a plan to say its not a plan is crazy. If its the best plan that remains to be seen. Your argument about he might feel different at that age is a valid one but invalid at the same time because with all plans things can change.

No, it's not a plan like any other. It's a refusal to plan. If at 70 he is surprised to find that life is not so bad after all (which is what most 70 year olds actually think), then he can figure out how to live when he is poor and has no options. Of course, plans have to change. That is why is is so important to preserve options instead of throwing them away carelessly. Sheesh.

Shees.. its a plan.. it might not be the best or smartest plan. But tell me can you make a plan that accounts for everything... how about the baht triples in value and your savings are in an other currency. You cant plan everything just like everyplan his has some faults but other plans have the same thing.

[pattayadingo]

I feel that while I am alive and kicking I would not consider suicide. Suicide after all is definitely a last resort and you have to have serious problems to carry out the act. It also takes some guts to top yourself.

A friend of mine had cancer of the brain at the age of 49. He was given 6 months to live. He sorted out all his finances and set all his personal records straight and made 1 request only of myself and one of his other really good friends.

That request was for us to make sure we took him out twice a week every week to the pub - something we had done for years - until he was no longer able to be taken out. We also took him on holidays to Holland and places where we did not have to fly.

Right up until the very end, he was happy and even when in hospital near the end he tried to get up from bed in his drugged state asking for the two of us to take him out!!

Some of us would not have the courage to carry on and some of us would not have the courage to end it all. Some of us have the instinct to carry on until the very end so I do believe that until we reach that point in our lives we cannot really say what we would do.

Making plans to go to Thailand and spend what money you have having a great time and then committing suicide when the money runs out seems ludicrous to me because we never really know what our instinct for survival will be.

I also think that committing suicide away from home can be a very selfish thing to do if you have family who then have to go through all sorts of problems emotionally and bureaucratically.

[pauljones]

Some sick person needs to be put out if misery and then ends up in eternal damnation?

Not very nice.

[phomsanuk]

Seems that many of the jumpers, alcohol over consumtion are related to people who came here to suicide, easier on the family.

I came here to die but not to commit suicide

[fredtitmus]

rather than throw yourself off a balconey(if that really is suicide!) or hang yourself in the bathroom of your hotel so that the poor old maid finds you.

Why dont we have a suicide street in maybe pattaya where people can go and maybe have a last drink with their friends in a very comfortable bar with the best pattaya girls and when the time comes the girls take you up to the stand the noose goes round your neck you give them the last few notes in your pocket and when you are ready you press a button and down you go into a box.

You could call it suicide soi or suicide drive where you have differant hanging points down the soi,like lamp posts down a street.

It would also be good for tourism,people are obsessed with death and the family could come in the future and say this is where your great grandad died but dont worry he died a very happy man.

But seriously if an old guy wants to check out,i say let him go,if he/she is in pain and the quality of life is none then they should be able to say enough is enough and die with the family around them not alone in a hotel room.

I do have a problem though with young guys who have children,its becoming all too comman now for guys in there 30's/40's commiting suicide,many seem to get involved in drugs and then cant handle the come down and as soon as they face a problem in their life they cant cope with it and check out.I think its unbelievably selfish especially if they have children.

[4evermaat]

Good post, Swiss 1960. So is the OP's topic.

I have a great life right now and I'm still acting like I'm 30, but I'm 72 and KNOW my time is limited... even though I am in reasonably good health "right now". But, when the time comes when I'm only a drain on the economy and my children's life then I will have no qualms in ending it. But, it won't be from a highrise swan dive or a media making jump off some bridge. There are drugs you can take that ends it quickly and effficiently and without pain. Many elderly in pain just ask the doctors to increase the dosage of their pain medicine. I was there when my mother asked to nurse to increase the medicine she was on. They asked her if she knew what she was asking and she nodded yes. An hjour later she had passed away. My father just stopped eating and dried up to a point where he couldn't remain alive.

We are ALL going to have to face the ending at some point. Why make it painful?

Why should anybody panic (maybe except his family members...)? It is a basic human right to end one's own life when one feels it's time to do so... just some religious fools think you might end in hell when you do so... but hell on earth can be worse... so the only thing I expect from somebody who is about to commit suicide is to do it in a decent manner like drowing in the sea or in the bathtub after emptying few bottles of single malt and NOT jump off a highrise causing a mess and endangering others... I said it in another thread, I would commit suicide if ever I would be terminally ill...

But for your friends idea, I don't think he'll do it, cause when the time arrives, one does not just stand there and say "hey, I am broke, now I kill myself"... it takes much more than that

Finally the main question, is it bad for Thailand? Yes, of course it is bad for Thailand, even thought basically it has nothing to do with Thailand, and I don't understand why these cases always make the news... here in Switzerland, suicides tend not to make it to the newspapers, for one not to give examples to others and for two not to give a bad reputation to the country. I would think that also in Thailand, time will come when there will be a common understanding between all media to not any more report about suicide attempts by foreigners in order to protect the reputation of country.

Agree that ending one's life is a personal decision and we should have that option, but that it could be bad for Thailand in a PR sense (and you're right, it has nothing to do with Thailand). If Thailand were to allow doctor-assisted suicide, which I think is one of the most humane things society can do, they would be roundly criticized by the developed world. I know countless people who have relatives ravished with disease, just waiting to die. Nothing humane about that. Allowing physician-assisted suicide would allow these folks to pass with dignity, and in the presence of family if they so choose. This could be a cottage-industry in Thailand and rather progressive in my mind. But as you say, it would have to be carefully controlled and marketed due to its ghoulish nature. Euthanasia is a controversial subject,mostly due to the religious right. But if someone was bent on taking their own life, it would seem better for all if they could do in a sterile and controlled environment, under the guidance of a trained physician.

"we are all treading water in a shoreless sea"

the op's friend seems like he wants to be fully alive now, letting go of some or all if his fears and not letting his whole life pass him by just for some security. i can only encourage him to practice "the four agreements" and wish him all the best.

religions tend to attach so much meaning and personal importance to life and it makes it so heavy to be fully alive. the greatest threat to these attachments is the idea of death, because it forces us to be honest about what really matters.

i'm surprised actually to see a mostly common theme about the subject of dying here. it seems that the majority of people here are not overly concerned about "nursing home"- style care or told how to live. just want a simple life which makes for a simplier death.

Time is all we really have. we can choose to suffer or enjoy our destiny. Why not enjoy it; and then die when you're no longer able to? Does it matter how you go omce you are gone?

"2nd best time to plant a tree is today." Sent from TV android app.

[CaptHaddock]

Shees.. its a plan.. it might not be the best or smartest plan. But tell me can you make a plan that accounts for everything... how about the baht triples in value and your savings are in an other currency. You cant plan everything just like everyplan his has some faults but other plans have the same thing.

Sorry. If you are unable to distinguish between being impacted by exchange rates and killing yourself so that you don't have to pay for retirement, then I'm sure I won't be able to explain it to you.

[travelmann]

Great opportunity for TAT to promote Thailand as the suicide hub of the world..

Package deals available for a low, all inclusive price of 2900 baht. For that you get a short time with a bar girl or boy (depending on yoru proclivity), a few shots of Sang Som, then a bonk on the head and off to the ovens with you.

If these down and out folks had a quick, easy and affordable way to punch their ticket, there might be fewer moaners around.

Better still why do it in Thailand surely chartering the entire plane full of suiciders ( is that a word) and a suicidal pilot they could just blow it up part way to Thailand.

[robblok]

Shees.. its a plan.. it might not be the best or smartest plan. But tell me can you make a plan that accounts for everything... how about the baht triples in value and your savings are in an other currency. You cant plan everything just like everyplan his has some faults but other plans have the same thing.

Sorry. If you are unable to distinguish between being impacted by exchange rates and killing yourself so that you don't have to pay for retirement, then I'm sure I won't be able to explain it to you.

I know there is a difference.. but what i am saying you can't plan it all. And you call it not a plan while it is a plan. Granted it might not be the best plan ever but it is a plan. Just look the word plan up in the dictionary. English might not be my first language but im pretty sure that i know that a plan does not have to be well thought through or good to be considered a plan.

[fredtitmus]

Shees.. its a plan.. it might not be the best or smartest plan. But tell me can you make a plan that accounts for everything... how about the baht triples in value and your savings are in an other currency. You cant plan everything just like everyplan his has some faults but other plans have the same thing.

Sorry. If you are unable to distinguish between being impacted by exchange rates and killing yourself so that you don't have to pay for retirement, then I'm sure I won't be able to explain it to you.

I know there is a difference.. but what i am saying you can't plan it all. And you call it not a plan while it is a plan. Granted it might not be the best plan ever but it is a plan. Just look the word plan up in the dictionary. English might not be my first language but im pretty sure that i know that a plan does not have to be well thought through or good to be considered a plan.

What is going on with all this plan business? plan this,plan that,plan the other! can we stop using the word plan please!

[samsiam]

plan to stop using that word please.

[KeyserSoze01]

Some sick person needs to be put out if misery and then ends up in eternal damnation?

Not very nice.

Fear tactics are never very nice, regardless of the agenda. The only thing worse is the hypocracy under which most religions operate.

[Thongkorn]

why involve another person or country in your Negative thinking ,ask people who have been given a short time to live, they grasp every minute and breath.

[Thongkorn]

Great opportunity for TAT to promote Thailand as the suicide hub of the world..

Package deals available for a low, all inclusive price of 2900 baht. For that you get a short time with a bar girl or boy (depending on yoru proclivity), a few shots of Sang Som, then a bonk on the head and off to the ovens with you.

If these down and out folks had a quick, easy and affordable way to punch their ticket, there might be fewer moaners around.

Better still why do it in Thailand surely chartering the entire plane full of suiciders ( is that a word) and a suicidal pilot they could just blow it up part way to Thailand.

Great opportunity for TAT to promote Thailand as the suicide hub of the world..

Package deals available for a low, all inclusive price of 2900 baht. For that you get a short time with a bar girl or boy (depending on yoru proclivity), a few shots of Sang Som, then a bonk on the head and off to the ovens with you.

If these down and out folks had a quick, easy and affordable way to punch their ticket, there might be fewer moaners around.

Better still why do it in Thailand surely chartering the entire plane full of suiciders ( is that a word) and a suicidal pilot they could just blow it up part way to Thailand.

Sorry mate but your now on the FBI most wanted list , because you mentioned plane and blowing it up.

[onionluke]

Anybody contemplating suicide to end their life should spare a thought for the poor unfortunates who have to clean up after them.

A woman killed herself by throwing herself off a high rise apartment building in HK a couple of days ago.

Sadly she landed on a foreign domestic worker who was walking on the pavement twenty stories below, killing her and them both.

The doors to heaven and hell are open at this time of year, Ching Ming .