European Surnames In Thailand

[MediumPaceBowler]

This is a question for the historians and intellectuals amongt you.

Why is it that so few people in this region have European surnames? I ask this question out of genuine interest.

My exotic girlfriend has a Portuguese surname. She's Thai-Chinese-Indian-Arabic. I assume that her surname comes from one of her Indian ancestors who came to this region from the southern part of the Indian sub-continent.

Portuguese surnames are actually quite common in India. You've probably heard of Frieda Pinto, the Indian actress who shot to fame in Slumdog Millionaire and who starred recently in the new Planet of the Apes movie. She grew up in Bombay and got her surname from one of the early Portuguese missionaries.

But why is it that we don't encounter more European surnames in this particular part of Asia?

Laos was a French colony. It seems logical to me that the French settlers would have interbred with the locals. It seems logical to me that hundreds or thousands of Laotians should now have French surnames. It seems logical to me that over the last hundred years or so, many of these Laotians would have migrated south (or west) into Isaan. It seems logical to me that many Isaan people should now have French surnames.

But that doesn't seem to be the case, does it. Why?

Malaysia was a British colony. The same logic applies: one might consider it reasonable that Malaysians with British surnames would have migrated north over the last hundred years or so into the deep south of Thailand. But when was the last time you met a Thai in or near Hat Yai called:

1. Somchai Brown

2. Suphawadee Quentin-Smythe

3. Anand Wilson

It doesn't happen, does it?

And yet, the Philippines is full of people with Spanish surnames. And, as stated above, many people in India (or people who are of Indian descent) have Portuguese surnames.

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[farang000999]

The reason is because the surname comes from the male and very few children from Western fathers in this region gain enough notorierty for you to hear their name, the exception being movie stars who quite frequently do have Western surnames.

[arthurwait]

They are rare, in fact the only people to have them are post-op lady boys when they change their name.

[MediumPaceBowler]

The reason is because the surname comes from the male and very few children from Western fathers in this region gain enough notorierty for you to hear their name, the exception being movie stars who quite frequently do have Western surnames.

Nice try. But you're talking about the new generation of LUK-KREUNGS who are the "by-product" of cheap air travel.

I'm talking about people in this region who have European surnames as a consequence of the colonial era or the centuries-old tradition of Arab or Indian traders visiting this region from the likes of Bombay, Dubai or Persia.

[endure]

Your girlfriend seems to get more exotic (and more mixed-blood) every time you post

[endure]

Surnames didn't become a legal requirement in Thailand until 1913. Before that the vast majority of Thais only had one name.

[DP25]

Laos was a French colony. It seems logical to me that the French settlers would have interbred with the locals. It seems logical to me that hundreds or thousands of Laotians should now have French surnames.

It may seem logical but it isn't reality. Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia, Burma etc were not settler colonies like Australia or Canada or South Africa. The number of people from the parent country permanently settling in these places was very small, and they weren't colonized for very long. Eurasian populations in places like India, Burma, Malaysia, Vietnam and Indonesia was always a very small percent of the population, and many of them left after decolonization and migrated back to the parent country or one of it's former colonies like Canada or Australia.

Philippines is vastly different from these other countries, it was a colony for a very long time and absorbed much of the culture and religion of Spain. Same with Goa in India, it was a Portuguese colony for over 400 years and they converted to Catholicism over time.

Edited April 13, 2012 by DP25

[Boater]

Surnames didn't become a legal requirement in Thailand until 1913. Before that the vast majority of Thais only had one name.

beat me to it ! ,

[Satcommlee]

Having married a Thai last year who chose to keep her own surname, I wonder if it is a cultural thing?

Maybe we are a 1 or 2 generations away from seeing an explosion of westernised surnames in Thailand?

My 18mth old has my western surname, but if he chooses to get married to a Thai in the future, I wonder if he would continue to adopt the western surname.

But you have a very valid point and it is very intriguing.. I cannot think of a single example of a person I have dealt with in Thailand who has a name like "Amporn Smith"

[farang000999]

They are about, they dont always have a name tag on.

[mca]

]POSTING GUIDELINES[/b]

PLEASE ..... don't waste your time replying if you don't know what you're talking about.

Bloody hell mate if that was introduced all over TVF the forum would cease to exist within about 20 minutes.

[regine]

Nice try. But you're talking about the new generation of LUK-KREUNGS who are the "by-product" of cheap air travel.

Sirikitiya Jensen and Ploypailin Jensen have Thai first names and Western last names.

I'm talking about people in this region who have European surnames as a consequence of the colonial era or the centuries-old tradition of Arab or Indian traders visiting this region from the likes of Bombay, Dubai or Persia.

What colonial era? Thailand was never a Western colony like India, Laos, Burma, Malaysia, etc. so the number of Europeans that historically settled in Thailand is almost non-existant.

Regarding Asians immigrating to Thailand... when you immigrated and became a Thai citizen you had to take a Thai surname. Most obviously seen in surnames of Thai-Chinese today, which are much longer than the surnames of ethnic Thais. There are ethnic Indian Thais as well, but they too had to take on Thai surnames.

[nottocus]

Laos was a French colony. It seems logical to me that the French settlers would have interbred with the locals. It seems logical to me that hundreds or thousands of Laotians should now have French surnames.

Just been in Laos trying to get a passport for my newborn son. The police wouldn't stamp the passport as he had a foreign name. So we had to go back to the hospital and get the birth certificate changed so he had a Lao name.

[MediumPaceBowler]

Your girlfriend seems to get more exotic (and more mixed-blood) every time you post

I have a photo here on my computer that you wouldn't believe.

The photo shows a woman who is probably about 50. She was white / blonde hair. She looks Dutch. She has that plump, "well-fed" look that Dutch people tend to acquire after eating too much Gouda. Or Edam. Or Maasdam.

Standing next to her is a distinguished-looking gentleman of a similar age. He too is quite clearly Dutch.

And standing next to the Dutch man is an Indian. He's much less "well-fed" than the others. He looks as though he's from the deep south of India. Then again, he could be Sri Lankan. He has a prominent moustache.

All three of these people are Thai. The woman is my g/f's mother; the two men are the mother's brothers.

I'd like to post this photo, but I think that to do so would contravene this forum's guidelines.

[MediumPaceBowler]

Surnames didn't become a legal requirement in Thailand until 1913. Before that the vast majority of Thais only had one name.

Thanks. That explains a lot.

[MediumPaceBowler]

Laos was a French colony. It seems logical to me that the French settlers would have interbred with the locals. It seems logical to me that hundreds or thousands of Laotians should now have French surnames.

It may seem logical but it isn't reality. Laos, Vietnam, Malaysia, Burma etc were not settler colonies like Australia or Canada or South Africa. The number of people from the parent country permanently settling in these places was very small, and they weren't colonized for very long. Eurasian populations in places like India, Burma, Malaysia, Vietnam and Indonesia was always a very small percent of the population, and many of them left after decolonization and migrated back to the parent country or one of it's former colonies like Canada or Australia.

Philippines is vastly different from these other countries, it was a colony for a very long time and absorbed much of the culture and religion of Spain. Same with Goa in India, it was a Portuguese colony for over 400 years and they converted to Catholicism over time.

Thank you, Khun Historian.

[kerryk]

Your girlfriend seems to get more exotic (and more mixed-blood) every time you post

I have only read three of his posts. The three that I read started , “1st. My extraordinarily exotic Thai-Chinese girlfriend is playing. 2nd. I'm bored because my exotic Thai-Chinese girlfriend. 3rd. I watched a movie with my (Thai-Chinese) girlfriend a couple of nights ago.”

I really wonder why he feels the necessity to tell us every time he posts that he has a mixed race girlfriend. Doesn't he know that Thais don't like Chinese people?

I find his constant harping on the ethnicity of his female companion distracts from what he is trying to communicate in the post and instead I find myself thinking he is somehow trying to engender sympathy for having to date a Thai Chinese woman instead of a pure Thai woman. I feel sorry for him of course but I wonder why he would mention it in so many posts.

[h90]

Also the Chinese -Thais have Thai surnames.

What language does that Thai Chinese Arab India Farang family speak?

[DrTuner]

I'm wondering how many shipping routes went through Siam in comparison to f.ex. what is now Singapore. Ports would be prime places for the merchants (and the sailors, harrr) to spread the caucasian seeds into the local population. Just went to Phuket for some variety and found they had some Portuguese influenced buildings there. Not sure if the real thing or tourist attractions.

Anyway, the sailors would not be the ones who'd leave their names behind, it would have to be permanently based merchants and such. So my guess is that what is Thailand today never was a hub of trade in the old days, any wikipedia masters out there to support such a hunch ?

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[MediumPaceBowler]

Your girlfriend seems to get more exotic (and more mixed-blood) every time you post

I have only read three of his posts. The three that I read started , “1st. My extraordinarily exotic Thai-Chinese girlfriend is playing. 2nd. I'm bored because my exotic Thai-Chinese girlfriend. 3rd. I watched a movie with my (Thai-Chinese) girlfriend a couple of nights ago.”

I really wonder why he feels the necessity to tell us every time he posts that he has a mixed race girlfriend. Doesn't he know that Thais don't like Chinese people?

I find his constant harping on the ethnicity of his female companion distracts from what he is trying to communicate in the post and instead I find myself thinking he is somehow trying to engender sympathy for having to date a Thai Chinese woman instead of a pure Thai woman. I feel sorry for him of course but I wonder why he would mention it in so many posts.

That's just silly and childish.

[endure]

Your girlfriend seems to get more exotic (and more mixed-blood) every time you post

I have a photo here on my computer that you wouldn't believe.

No, I probably wouldn't.

[MediumPaceBowler]

I'm wondering how many shipping routes went through Siam in comparison to f.ex. what is now Singapore. Ports would be prime places for the merchants (and the sailors, harrr) to spread the caucasian seeds into the local population. Just went to Phuket for some variety and found they had some Portuguese influenced buildings there. Not sure if the real thing or tourist attractions.

Anyway, the sailors would not be the ones who'd leave their names behind, it would have to be permanently based merchants and such. So my guess is that what is Thailand today never was a hub of trade in the old days, any wikipedia masters out there to support such a hunch ?

Excellent post.

I've read that the seaboard that extends south from Phuket to what is now Singapore has for many centuries been a major trading route for Indians (Bombay, Ceylon, etc) and Arabs (Persians, Omanis, etc).

This is obviously how Islam was introduced into the region. I am reliably informed that Yala has a 96% Muslim population; Malaysia is 70% Muslim; and Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim nation.

Thailand was never colonized as such, but it is true that Portuguese merchants set up shop in Phuket in order to exploit the city's tin wealth. If you read about this on Google, you'll see the term "Sino-Portuguese" used a lot.

So yes, the Portuguese style of architecture that you saw recently in Phuket is authentic.

[MediumPaceBowler]

Your girlfriend seems to get more exotic (and more mixed-blood) every time you post

I have a photo here on my computer that you wouldn't believe.

No, I probably wouldn't.

Shame. I was gonna offer to send it to you privately.

Enjoy your Songkran, Mr Endure.

[Beetlejuice]

Good thread this and very interesting. This is something I have always wanted to know, but been afraid to ask.

I have no official facts to give you, but here is my educated guess:

Throughout history Thailand was never colonised by any Western nations, neither did Westerners visit or settle in Thailand in large numbers. In fact Thailand has never been a true multi racial society in the sense compared to many European countries.

But I believe this is going to change within the next 20 years or so, now that there is an abundance of farangs settling in Thailand. There are my three kids who are all registered in my surname and have English Christian names and I know of many more.

One of my neighbors who he and is his wife are 100% Thai and don`t speak a word of farang, have named their two children, James and Ann, so these types of names are now becoming fashionable in Thailand.

BTW, did someone mention that there is an erotic exotic photo going around of a poster`s girlfriend?

Edited April 14, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[kerryk]

Good thread this and very interesting. This is something I have always wanted to know, but been afraid to ask.

I have no official facts to give you, but here is my educated guess:

Throughout history Thailand was never colonised by any Western nations, neither did Westerners visit or settle in Thailand in large numbers. In fact Thailand has never been a true multi racial society in the sense compared to many European countries.

But I believe this is going to change within the next 20 years or so, now that there is an abundance of farangs settling in Thailand. There are my three kids who are all registered in my surname and have English Christian names and I know of many more.

One of my neighbors who he and is his wife are 100% Thai and don`t speak a word of farang, have named their two children, James and Ann, so these types of names are now becoming fashionable in Thailand.

BTW, did someone mention that there is an erotic exotic photo going around of a poster`s girlfriend?

I would call 100,000 Japanese a lot of people and they stayed or passed through for 4 years. 50,000 Americans for 10 years lived in Thailand and hundreds of thousands more came for a week at a time to increase the gene pool for 10 years.

Edited April 14, 2012 by kerryk

[MegaRanter]

My son has two English names and a Nigerian surname and travels on a Thai passport.

[Beetlejuice]

Good thread this and very interesting. This is something I have always wanted to know, but been afraid to ask.

I have no official facts to give you, but here is my educated guess:

Throughout history Thailand was never colonised by any Western nations, neither did Westerners visit or settle in Thailand in large numbers. In fact Thailand has never been a true multi racial society in the sense compared to many European countries.

But I believe this is going to change within the next 20 years or so, now that there is an abundance of farangs settling in Thailand. There are my three kids who are all registered in my surname and have English Christian names and I know of many more.

One of my neighbors who he and is his wife are 100% Thai and don`t speak a word of farang, have named their two children, James and Ann, so these types of names are now becoming fashionable in Thailand.

BTW, did someone mention that there is an erotic exotic photo going around of a poster`s girlfriend?

I would call 100,000 Japanese a lot of people and they stayed or passed through for 4 years. 50,000 Americans for 10 years lived in Thailand and hundreds of thousands more came for a week at a time to increase the gene pool for 10 years.

You make a good point that I did not think of.

As I said, mine is just a guess.

Is there an historian in the house?

[kerryk]

Good thread this and very interesting. This is something I have always wanted to know, but been afraid to ask.

I have no official facts to give you, but here is my educated guess:

Throughout history Thailand was never colonised by any Western nations, neither did Westerners visit or settle in Thailand in large numbers. In fact Thailand has never been a true multi racial society in the sense compared to many European countries.

But I believe this is going to change within the next 20 years or so, now that there is an abundance of farangs settling in Thailand. There are my three kids who are all registered in my surname and have English Christian names and I know of many more.

One of my neighbors who he and is his wife are 100% Thai and don`t speak a word of farang, have named their two children, James and Ann, so these types of names are now becoming fashionable in Thailand.

BTW, did someone mention that there is an erotic exotic photo going around of a poster`s girlfriend?

I would call 100,000 Japanese a lot of people and they stayed or passed through for 4 years. 50,000 Americans for 10 years lived in Thailand and hundreds of thousands more came for a week at a time to increase the gene pool for 10 years.

You make a good point that I did not think of.

As I said, mine is just a guess.

Is there an historian in the house?

Americans occupied Japan in large numbers for many years and also Thailand for 10 years. Both populations are getting taller.

[MediumPaceBowler]

Good thread this and very interesting. This is something I have always wanted to know, but been afraid to ask.

I have no official facts to give you, but here is my educated guess:

Throughout history Thailand was never colonised by any Western nations, neither did Westerners visit or settle in Thailand in large numbers. In fact Thailand has never been a true multi racial society in the sense compared to many European countries.

But I believe this is going to change within the next 20 years or so, now that there is an abundance of farangs settling in Thailand. There are my three kids who are all registered in my surname and have English Christian names and I know of many more.

One of my neighbors who he and is his wife are 100% Thai and don`t speak a word of farang, have named their two children, James and Ann, so these types of names are now becoming fashionable in Thailand.

BTW, did someone mention that there is an erotic exotic photo going around of a poster`s girlfriend?

I would call 100,000 Japanese a lot of people and they stayed or passed through for 4 years. 50,000 Americans for 10 years lived in Thailand and hundreds of thousands more came for a week at a time to increase the gene pool for 10 years.

Kerry, I'll tell you something. You have a knowledge of this region that's really impressive. You've obviously lived here for a very long time, and you obviously know what you're talking about.

You ought to share this knowledge and experience more often.

Open your eyes and see how this forum often gets dominated by little people who know nothing and who don't even live here.

Post more. This is a forum for people like you and me. And you know more than I do.

[pipo1000]

I really wonder why he feels the necessity to tell us every time he posts that he has a mixed race girlfriend. Doesn't he know that Thais don't like Chinese people?

In fact,it is known that Thais seem to like nobody but themselves,but they especially they have a disdain of the Chinese since they were initially hired as the cheap workforce but walked over the Thais and made them their workforce.

Their is a word for it in Thai : Som nam naa.