I've been denied entry to Thailand - Now What ! ?

[Sion]

I have just moved to Thailand on a one year contract from a limited company. They are now saying they can not afford to pay me and the contract is not valid. Can anyone help me with some advice.

[Geekfreaklover]

Was it a large company with a legal dept that offered to hire you?

I think the best advice is to look for another job or fly back home. Could cost you a lot more in legal fees if you try to dispute it and you could end up getting nowhere fast and out of pocket. This is a developing country, protection of foreign workers is limited and lawyers are using here to make themselves rich,

[Sion]

Thanks, it is a small company and I think it might own property, how can I find out more about the company. More likely to go home than look for work here as the jobs I have seen can not match my offered salary.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

You could spend a lot more than a month's salary, chances are slim you'll win, and that's probably the most you'd be awarded, a few thousand baht is considered a heavy fine for much more serious and criminal offenses.

Chalk it up to experience, assuming they're not too rich and powerful, maybe once you're out of Thailand maybe find a way to name and shame - dangerous to try while you're here even for the corner noodle stand.

Did you pay an agency anything, maybe part of a scam?

Edited April 25, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[Ijustwannateach]

Your only choice is to leave and find another job. Until you've legally worked for them, they don't have to recognise you.

[Sion]

I have a signed fixed term contract and have worked for them for a couple of months. They spent 6 months head hunting me and I paid no fees to be here. The company is owned jointly by English and Thai people. It would be easy to name and shame them and prevent them from having contacts in Europe which they require to operate.

[Sion]

They paid for my flights etc so fairly sure it is not a scam

[gregb]

You don't say what clause was in the contract you signed for early termination.

The Labor Department in Thailand is actually quite willing to help you if your employer has violated a labor law. But it doesn't sound like they have in your case. If you worked for your employer for less than 3 months, you are not entitled to severance under standard Thai labor laws, and they can dismiss you for any reason. So all you have to fight with is what your employment contract says. If there is no clause specified for early termination, then it would appear that the standard labor laws would apply and they need only to pay you out to the end of the last month you worked.

Does your contract say anything about this situation?

[Sion]

Yes my contract clearly states that any termination without cause will result in the full term of my contract being paid to me. Essentially I get the rest of my contract paid to me in full. They have said they might be liquidating the company and that the contract would not be valid.

[samran]

Yes my contract clearly states that any termination without cause will result in the full term of my contract being paid to me. Essentially I get the rest of my contract paid to me in full. They have said they might be liquidating the company and that the contract would not be valid.

Suggest you take a look at this forum a bit more, as there is some good advice floating about in older posts. Thai labour law is very sympathetic to employees and is an area where things are done well above board with no regard to your nationality.

A few posts I have read have seen the OP's go to the labour court on their own and the clerks there being very helpful in processing their cases to be heard, usually resulting in the employee being paid out their according to their statutory rights.

[Kilgore Trout]

Your only choice is to leave and find another job. Until you've legally worked for them, they don't have to recognise you.

That's right, until you physically have your work permit at your place of work, you are working illegally.

[dantilley]

Suggest you take a look at this forum a bit more, as there is some good advice floating about in older posts. Thai labour law is very sympathetic to employees and is an area where things are done well above board with no regard to your nationality.

A few posts I have read have seen the OP's go to the labour court on their own and the clerks there being very helpful in processing their cases to be heard, usually resulting in the employee being paid out their according to their statutory rights.

Agree with this, court cases more often than not side with the employee in disputes such as this. If the company really is going into liquidation it could be a problem though,

[sbk]

Moving to Jobs/business in Thailand forum.

[dantilley]

That's right, until you physically have your work permit at your place of work, you are working illegally.

As I understand it (anyone with greater knowledge feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) as long as you have the Non-immigrant B visa and the work permit is confirmed as being in process (believe a stamp goes in your passport to confirm this) then you're working legally. The actual blue book itself doesn't have to be printed and in your possession.

[Sion]

I came here on a tourist visa and was told by the company that they would organise my work permit when I arrived. Was told that I could work on the tourist visa until then. They have not sorted out my work permit yet

[Kilgore Trout]

That's right, until you physically have your work permit at your place of work, you are working illegally.

As I understand it (anyone with greater knowledge feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) as long as you have the Non-immigrant B visa and the work permit is confirmed as being in process (believe a stamp goes in your passport to confirm this) then you're working legally. The actual blue book itself doesn't have to be printed and in your possession.

Agreed, that will work. Problem being many companies don't start the work permit process until the 3 month non-B is about to expire. So if they haven't acted on starting the process yet, then you are in violation.

[bendix]

I came here on a tourist visa and was told by the company that they would organise my work permit when I arrived. Was told that I could work on the tourist visa until then. They have not sorted out my work permit yet

In that case, I would drop the whole thing. You have been working illegally and were you to push it you could find yourself in a lot of trouble, even the Immigration Detention Centre before being deported.

Furthermore, your employer sounds like a real shonky outfit. They advised you wrong, and it is their responsibility to get a work visa for you, but - regardless - you would still be committing a crime by working without one. Your contract is meaningless. It's null and void because both you and your employer have been committing a crime by working.

Do NOT pursue this any further. Walk away and consider yourself lucky. If you even so much as think of taking this to court, it will end up very badly indeed. Do not pursue a civil law matter against your employer because, frankly, the criminal law breach will be the one the Thai authorities focus on.

[bendix]

That's right, until you physically have your work permit at your place of work, you are working illegally.

As I understand it (anyone with greater knowledge feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) as long as you have the Non-immigrant B visa and the work permit is confirmed as being in process (believe a stamp goes in your passport to confirm this) then you're working legally. The actual blue book itself doesn't have to be printed and in your possession.

Agreed, that will work. Problem being many companies don't start the work permit process until the 3 month non-B is about to expire. So if they haven't acted on starting the process yet, then you are in violation.

Wrong. You cannot work on a non-B visa. A non-B visa is a requirement to get a work permit, that's all.

Furthermore, by his own admission the OP doesnt have a non-B visa. He only has a tourist visa. You clearly cannot work on a tourist visa.

[dantilley]

Wrong. You cannot work on a non-B visa. A non-B visa is a requirement to get a work permit, that's all.

Is it not the case that you're OK if the work permit application is in process and you can prove that it is?

Furthermore, by his own admission the OP doesnt have a non-B visa. He only has a tourist visa. You clearly cannot work on a tourist visa.

Agree that this doesn't apply to the OP though who didn't even have the non-B visa.

[Kilgore Trout]

That's right, until you physically have your work permit at your place of work, you are working illegally.

As I understand it (anyone with greater knowledge feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) as long as you have the Non-immigrant B visa and the work permit is confirmed as being in process (believe a stamp goes in your passport to confirm this) then you're working legally. The actual blue book itself doesn't have to be printed and in your possession.

Agreed, that will work. Problem being many companies don't start the work permit process until the 3 month non-B is about to expire. So if they haven't acted on starting the process yet, then you are in violation.

Wrong. You cannot work on a non-B visa. A non-B visa is a requirement to get a work permit, that's all.

Furthermore, by his own admission the OP doesnt have a non-B visa. He only has a tourist visa. You clearly cannot work on a tourist visa.

From personal experience I can tell you that if raided, if you can show your work permit is in process they will not prosecute (they can if they really want to, but they don't). However, if no work has been started on WP they will prosecute you.

But if the op only has a tourist visa then he is sol.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Kilgore Trout

[bendix]

Is it not the case that you're OK if the work permit application is in process and you can prove that it is?

There may be a bit of wriggle room of a day or so to arrange for the employer to set up the appointment to collect the work permit and be paraded in front of the bored official, but that's about it.

In my various jobs, the two employers (an international law firm and an international consulting business - both of whom knew the process intimately) insisted that that appointment happened on my first days.

[bendix]

In this particular instance, even if he had a non-Imm B visa, he'd be toast. Two months to sort out the work visa? No way would the authorities allow that.

[dantilley]

In this particular instance, even if he had a non-Imm B visa, he'd be toast. Two months to sort out the work visa? No way would the authorities allow that.

Yes agreed.

[dantilley]

There may be a bit of wriggle room of a day or so to arrange for the employer to set up the appointment to collect the work permit and be paraded in front of the bored official, but that's about it.

In my various jobs, the two employers (an international law firm and an international consulting business - both of whom knew the process intimately) insisted that that appointment happened on my first days.

OK good to know, thanks.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Just to clarify, the couple of months that you've already worked for them was here in Thailand or back in Europe?

In either case, the Labor Court won't help with the big issue, that's a civil one. The contract doesn't lose its validity, but the problem is the Thai legal system is such it's more trouble and expense than it's worth to try to enforce it.

If you have the ability to put pressure on them, perhaps back in Europe without danger to yourself here, maybe they'll settle with you, but otherwise I'll agree you don't have much recourse.

[bendix]

The contract doesn't lose its validity, but the problem is the Thai legal system is such it's more trouble and expense than it's worth to try to enforce it.

I'm not sure that's correct Johnny. If he was working here in Thailand for those two months (and that's how I read it), then the contract has no validity at all, largely because contracts are rendered null and void when they involve illegal activity.

Irrespective of whether it was the OP's fault or his employer, he was effectively working illegally. He has no recource in law, either in civil courts or elsewhere.

It's a harsh lesson, but ignorance of the law is no excuse. We farang need to get over sense of innate right to work here and understand we are not at home anymore.

[PattayaParent]

At least if you have no work permit then they should not have taken tax or national insurance off your salary payments.

And you may get away with not paying tax back home as you can say you were a tourist (unless you notified the tax man you wre leaving the country?)

[Ijustwannateach]

While it is technically correct that the Thai Labour Department is very sympathetic and helpful, the OP has still worked illegally. He may indeed get supported by the Labour Ministry, but he will undoubtedly also be charged with illegal work. That's what makes it all so hard unless you've worked long enough to be legal (and it's why churning foreign employees is such a successful strategy).

[samran]

While it is technically correct that the Thai Labour Department is very sympathetic and helpful, the OP has still worked illegally. He may indeed get supported by the Labour Ministry, but he will undoubtedly also be charged with illegal work. That's what makes it all so hard unless you've worked long enough to be legal (and it's why churning foreign employees is such a successful strategy).

My only query with this view is that he won't be working illegally at the point he gets to caught. In all likelihood, he isn't working now. My understanding is that you can only get nabbed if caught in the act. Opportunity for that has passed.

And cause Labour court isn't immigration, they don't care about immigration status.

Other than that, the only remarkable thing is that you and Bendix are essentially in furious agreement.

[bendix]

Other than that, the only remarkable thing is that you and Bendix are essentially in furious agreement.

Dont be hard on ijustwannateach, samran. He is living proof of the maxim that even broken clocks are right sometimes.