Thai Residency Applications Being Approved

[Arkady]

"Immigration does need to see any company documentation concerning the business or company for an extension based upon marriage to a Thai which takes a lot of the hurdles out of the way.

I plan on doing some checking and such about setting up the business and etc. If looks better we can set it up as company (The wife's).

I was just reading the info posted in the pinned topic at top of this forum and could find the info about the 3 years if married to a Thai for applying for citizenship or the non PR clause. I will be at the 5 year point or over ot by the time I apply so that doesn't matter to me but the no PR is important."

OK, you can avoid scrutiny of the business by Immigration by getting an extension based on marriage to a Thai spouse but the business will still be scrutinised by the Labour Ministry's Dept of Employment when you apply for WP. They will want to see evidence that the business is profitable enough to support a foreign employee. That will involve scrutiny of your wife's tax audited tax PNG 90 receipts relating to the sole proprietorship business and audited accounts of the business. The business will also need four Thai employees with social security contribution records who have proper work stations in the business and are available for interview. I think using a company to get a WP would be easier, as this is routine, whereas a sole proprietorship will immediately raise a red flag at the DoE and be subjected to greater scrutiny. The office you apply to may even have an internal regulation to reject all sole proprietorship applications out of hand but give another reason to your face. Even if you manage it, it wouldn't be considered serious employment, if you tried to apply for PR or citizenship, unless the business is substantial in which case it would be advantageous from a tax perspective to register it as a company.

[Arkady]

I wonder how close they will scrutinize a company. It is easy to file tax for an income of 40,000 a month while you are in reality not making that kind of money. But for PR or Thai nationality they might have a closer look at the company and see that it is not a realistic income and only on paper.

Even though a minimum income of Bt 40,000 is enough to apply for citizenship, if you have a Thai wife, I doubt that they would consider most applicants showing the bare minimum seriously. For a start you will lose 10 points in the income category for earning less than Bt 80,000 when you may already be struggling to get the minimum 50 points to apply after losing 25 points for not having PR or a tabian baan. The Interior Ministry panel that interviews applicants is known to make favorable comments on the amount of tax paid by those who earn hundreds of thousands a month and it probably follows that they treat with derision those who have paid the bare minimum in tax, if they ever get to the interview stage. For PR applications you have to submit your employer's accounts and for citizenship you have to submit, if you have a share in it. The National Intelligence Agency interviews citizenship applicants with their Thai spouses, if they have them, and they do ask questions about your employer and the spouse's occupation and business, if she has one. They will investigate further, if they are not satisfied with the answers and have been known to visit homes and businesses unannounced, as have Immigration in the case of PR applicants. I would think it is best to be sure that everything is comfortably above the minimum requirements (remember these are only updated for inflation once in a blue moon) and that everything claimed on the application form can easily stand up to scrutiny. It is probably not worth the hassle of trying to submit an application that just scrapes by the minimum published guidelines, since we don't know what the unpublished internal guidelines are.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Arkady

[Badbanker]

Can someone confirm that it is 3 years of tax not 5 years?

Even though I make no money in Thailand, I was told that as long I have paid tax on 80 k a month for 5 years and have a work permit at the time of application that I would be accepted in the application process?

Thanks

[Arkady]

Can someone confirm that it is 3 years of tax not 5 years?

Even though I make no money in Thailand, I was told that as long I have paid tax on 80 k a month for 5 years and have a work permit at the time of application that I would be accepted in the application process?

Thanks

For citizenship you need to show PNG 91 or 90 tax receipts notarized by the Revenue Department showing tax paid on a salary from a job in Thaiand for three complete tax (calendar) years. (I think for PR it is exactly the same.) In addition to needing a work permit at the time of application, you need a letter from your employer confirming your position and how long you have worked there and confirming that your salary is exactly the same as the salary you paid tax on in the last complete tax year. So don't get a pay rise before your submit your application! Five years applies to the period of residence in the Kingdom required for males not married to Thais with evidence in the form of PR necessary to fulfill this requirement.

You are permitted to change jobs during the qualifying period and after application but there is no way to apply for PR or citizenship without having a job with a WP and salary tax receipts for three full years and a current WP. Paying tax on income of Bt 80k per month, e.g. dividends from Thai companies, if it is not a salary from a legitimate job in Thailand is not an acceptable substitute, although it might enhance your financial status in their eyes if it is in addition to having a salary. There are PR categories for people supporting dependents in Thailand, as opposed to the business quota, but these are archaic and effectively redundant as documentation required also includes WP and three years' notarized salary tax receipts - 'what use are you in supporting dependents without a verifiable job in Thailand?', they would ask.

Remember that the Immigration Act that covers PR dates back to 1979 and was not much changed regarding PR compared to its predecessors dating back to when immigration controls were first introduced in the 20s. The criteria for PR were originally put in place to screen boatloads of Chinese coolies arriving in Thailand. There were no work permits then and Immigration officials determined who had a marketable trade or profession right there at the quayside and gave them a resident's book which combined with an alien book issued by the local police station allowed the coolies to stay and work indefinitely and helped the authorities monitor who was living in the Kingdom. This was very important given the rampant criminal activities of Chinese triads. In the 50s the nationalistic government decided to crack down on Chinese immigration by introducing the quota of 100 immigrants per nationality per year and sharply increasing the PR fee (and citizenship fee). That put the kybosh on Chinese immigration because there were no non-imm B visas in those days. (No other nationality has ever been affected by the quota, except in some more recent years, Indians, but Chinese applicants still come up against it today.) Although there were 90 business visas, you were expected to leave the country at the end of that and PR (or citizenship) was only legitimate way to live and work in the country. Many things have changed over time but the philosophy of assessing applicants for PR and citizenship based on their ability to earn a living in Thailand through a respectable trade or profession has not. Investment or retirement income is not mentioned in either the Immigration Act or the Nationality Act and this is not going to change in the foreseeable future. Indeed, why should it?

Edited May 9, 2012 by Arkady

[tombkk]

Its sexual discrimination a woman can get citizenship but its harder for a man. I love Thailand and I must say invested allot of money there but I think the laws concerning Farangs are very unjust and light years behind. My wife can come to my country and is treated to the best my immigration but in Thailand we are treated with contempt WHY

This is not true. Please read the Thai Nationality Act with amendments up to 2008 and the many posts and threads on TV on this topic before polluting the web board with mindless rants.

I completely agree with you LushGoat. But TiT.

LushGoat spread false information, as Arkady pointed out. Why would you agree with him?

[tombkk]

I wonder how close they will scrutinize a company. It is easy to file tax for an income of 40,000 a month while you are in reality not making that kind of money. But for PR or Thai nationality they might have a closer look at the company and see that it is not a realistic income and only on paper.

They ask for the usual documents with a focus on the tax payments.

[tombkk]

you guys use some agency to apply for this ? if yes can recommend me one ?

or have a good source how to begin at this ?

I would like to apply this year for this status of permanent resident after being here for 3 years on a work permit...

I am married with a Thai Wife ... so i would get the discount rate

There is no longer any benefit for a married man to apply for PR.

If you are married to a Thai, and fulfill the requirements for PR, then you can immediately apply for citizenship.

(Citizenship is a lot cheaper than PR)

The advantage of the PR is that you won't have to give up your original citizenship.

[samran]

you guys use some agency to apply for this ? if yes can recommend me one ?

or have a good source how to begin at this ?

I would like to apply this year for this status of permanent resident after being here for 3 years on a work permit...

I am married with a Thai Wife ... so i would get the discount rate

There is no longer any benefit for a married man to apply for PR.

If you are married to a Thai, and fulfill the requirements for PR, then you can immediately apply for citizenship.

(Citizenship is a lot cheaper than PR)

The advantage of the PR is that you won't have to give up your original citizenship.

Nothing to say that you have to give up your citizenship if you take out Thai citizenship. Only if your original nationality requires that you relinquish it...

[samran]

Some great info here thanks Arkady.

The work permit is possible. I could go digging up some info on this an post it not in the mood at moment.

It seems to me it might be worth the effort even if is not approved. I wonder if letters from some local politicos (Kamnan, TAO head and etc.)would help when you turn in the application. I think I can get letters from both 2 MP's (PTP) here in Ubon that I have met more than once that provided that are still MP's when I apply.

Letters from influential person will not help because there is no provision in the ministerial regulations for "reference letters" and Special Branch cannot forward them to the Interior Ministry as part of the application. They will advise you that your influential friends are free to contact the minister direct, if they wish to try to lobby on your behalf. If they are influential enough they may well be able to help you either from the goodness of their hearts or for other consideration.

Special branch even told me that 'influential people' weren't needed for the 4 Thai people who need to come and vouch for you. I could have provided some relatively impressive names, they told me not to bother.

Dealing with DOI on the otherhand, that is a black box.

[surayu]

Nothing to say that you have to give up your citizenship if you take out Thai citizenship. Only if your original nationality requires that you relinquish it...

Did you miss the post #69 by any chances?

[samran]

Nothing to say that you have to give up your citizenship if you take out Thai citizenship. Only if your original nationality requires that you relinquish it...

Did you miss the post #69 by any chances?

No.

But to the extent that means anything: simply don't use your non-Thai passport to enter or depart Thailand.

And if you have been naturalised as a Thai....why would you do anything but?

[Arkady]

Re witnesses. As Samran said and contrary to popular belief, the two (not four) witnesses you have to produce to verify your assets, your job, your character etc do not have to be "pu yai" types. Any Thai citizens who have known you a long time and are in respectable sounding jobs will do. Special Branch says that the ministry will not pay attention to who they are, unless they lobby personally on your behalf and they don't need to be your witnesses to do that. Bear in mind that, if you do decide to invite "pu yai" to be your witnesses, you will have to get them to disclose their salary on the form which you will see and you might have to ask them to come for an interview at Special Branch with you at short notice. It is embarrassing enough asking "pu lek" to disclose their salaries.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Arkady

[Arkady]

Re dual nationality/ revocation of nationality. There has definitely been a hardening of attitudes at the ministry re the parts of the Act that are ambiguous in this respect, as witnessed by the new declaration requirement and comments made in the 2010 roadshow on life in Thailand that started in Bkk and went to Chiang Mai (there is a TV thread about it) in which an interior ministry official stated that applicants would be forced to renounce other citizenships (at the same time as giving out a lot of obviously incorrect and/or misleading info about PR and citizenship). SB says there are hawkish and dovish factions re dual nationality at the ministry and that this issue that is complicated by the many "pu yai" and/or their family members that enjoy dual citizenship has been knocked backwards and forwards as long as anyone can remember and is also affected by who is in power. (An amendment to the Act in 1992 that definitively prohibited dual nationality for "look krung" after the age of 20 was rescinded three weeks later presumably following lobbying at at senior level.) The past is not necessarily a guide to the future but I can tell you that only one farang has lost his Thai citizenship in recent decades for using his former citizenship or the citizenship of his father. That was a British man who used his British passport in the early 2000s to enter or leave Thailand (not sure which) and he wasn't Thai through naturalization. He was born in Thailand to expat British parents either before Dec 1971 when that route to citizenship was closed, or both his parents were permanent residents. As Samran says, if you have a Thai passport you should always use it to enter and leave Thailand. The worst thing you can do is enter on one and try to leave on the other - you might think that no one would be stupid enough to want to try that but there are several threads on TV that prove otherwise.

There is a recent thread in Thai on Immigration's website where an Immigration officer warned that there had been an order put to Immigration officers at the airport to look out for Thais with other passports so they could report them to Special Branch to have their Thai nationalities revoked. When asked for the legal basis for this on the web board the officer could only produce a letter from the Interior Ministry to the Foreign Ministry dated 1970 requesting the cooperation of Thai embassies and consulates abroad to report Thais living abroad who had been naturalized to another nationality, so that revocation proceedings could be initiated against them. Special Branch was unaware of the recent Immigration order (which more specifically referred to people entering and leaving on different passports) when I asked them and apparently the Foreign Ministry failed to cooperate with the 1970 request, since no such revocations are known to have taken place in the intervening 42 years, while the Foreign Ministry instead posts instructions on its website to Thai dual citizens on how to juggle their passports while travelling. That being said, what will happen in future, no one knows.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Arkady

[NewlyMintedThai]

As stated before, I have recently gone through the naturalization process with exactly zero mention of my original nationality made by any Thai official anywhere along the way.

[stbkk]

As stated before, I have recently gone through the naturalization process with exactly zero mention of my original nationality made by any Thai official anywhere along the way.

That's very interesting. Did you apply before the 2010 change mentioned in post #71, which says you have to sign a letter stating you will renounce your former nationality when your Thai nationality is granted?

As a 2006 PR applicant, with an application maybe lost forever in the world of Thai bureaucracy, and also married to a Thai, I was very interested in this possible route to citizenship. At least until I read the requirement to sign this letter. Much as I doubt that I will ever return full time to the UK, I still don't want to close of that option forever.

[Khutan]

If my wife was to set up a business as sole proprietor and I got a work permit for that business as GM or such and paid taxes for 3 years then I could skip PR and go to citizenship. I assume that a business would be OK verses the costs of setting up a company. If we did that then I could also use the tax payments as proof of income for my extensions. I don't mind paying some taxes to make my latter years of life easier if it can lead to getting citizenship..

Theoretically this could work but you have to take into account that under the Nationality Act the approval of applications is up to the discretion of the minister. That means it is a not an automatic process whereby you get approved if you can tick all the boxes. "Up to the discretion of the minister" also means that the process is not subject to any form of appeal or judicial review for those who are rejected (or for those who just hear nothing for over 10 years). So now you are starting to get the picture. If there is something they don't like about your application, it can just be thrown into a pile of unpromising applications and left there permanently and there is nothing you can do about it. I personally would not want to go those the hassle of preparing an application on the flimsy basis of working for a Mickey Mouse company and I would think that a sole proprietorship would be a non-starter in terms of even obtaining a work permit. Remember that they want to get a feel that your presence in Thailand is making a significant contribution in terms of the knowledge and training you bring in your professional life.

When I said that wealthy people should be able to set up a company to employ themselves, I meant to say that it should also be a real business that provides employment to more than than the minimum four Thais and has more than the minimum Bt 2 million paid-up capital. The people who process citizenship (and PR) applications are not dumb and they have already seen all the scams you can think of and many others that you can't. But anyway, without PR and a tabian baan you are likely to be starting to be starting out 25 points down and you need 50 points out of 100 to even be allowed to submit your application and pay the fee. Being over 50 loses you another 2-5 points; not having a masters of PhD loses you another 2-7 points; not being able to read and write Thai and sing the Royal and National Anthems loses you 7 points, even if you can get the full 8 points for being able to speak and understand Thai fluently.

The work permit is possible. I could go digging and come up with some info on this and post it but not in the mood at moment to do it

It seems to me it might be worth the effort even if is not approved. I wonder if letters from some local politicos (Kamnan, TAO head and etc.)would help when you turn in the application. I think I can get letters from both 2 MP's (PTP) here in Ubon that I have met more than once that provided that are still MP's when I apply.

The Work Permit is not that difficult - the actual Capital of the company can be nearly anything that has value, whats important is you pay the Capitalization Fee when you are incorporating the company.

Just on the subject of Work Permits, I was told by a good source if you are legally married to a Thai, you don't need a Work Permit to work for them. A few years ago I was offered a job with a respectable company and Informed them of this, after they checked with the Lawyers and they confirmed this was ok, as long as all the pay was given to my wife and not me, so she was paid and then she paid me an "nominal allowance". Mrs Khutan was on the books as the employee, but I turned up and did work on her behalf. I don't remember how much she paid me, rather she gave me the ATM Card for her Bank Account. Additionally, Immigration weren't too bothered extending my Non-O on that basis either. I am not sure if its still legal or what has changed in the last few years, so be careful with this information.

On The Subject of PR; I engaged some "Top End" (Read Expensive) Immigration Lawyers to act on my behalf a few years ago. The advice after a while was yes, technically Citizenship is possible, however it doesn't work without PR unless there are Exceptional circumstances. I have only ever heard of one male person who has achieved this, and he has the full set of credentials such as making significant donations to Charity and the arts for over 10 years, has invested many millions of dollars in the country and is immaculately connected to strata of society I only ever see on Television.

The reason for the PR rule as it was explained by expensive-lawyers was that Thailand needed to change the Citizenship rules for some external reason that was never properly explained to me. So they made becoming a Citizen easier, with the expectation that these people have PR already. So what they did was raise the bar for PR. Now this does not mean this ruling is unilateral, however this is how I had it explained how the "system works". For the situation I was in and the fact that I couldn't see any great advantage of PR for myself, then I decided not to continue.

I was also explained there are many countries in the world that do not encourage migrants, and Thailand is one. To change the view a little, Australia is a country that does accept / encourage a Migrant intake and Mrs Khutan who arrived in Australia in August last year, we Applied in December last year - in Australia and she should be getting PR in about 6 months from now - the 801 Visa. The attitude of immigration is that as long as its a genuine case there is no reason not to grant it, as we qualify for all the reasons. I will post the full story in a few months and hopefully help others who want to avoid some pitfalls and long waiting times with your partner outside Australia.

Anyway - I hope this helps a little

[NewlyMintedThai]

As stated before, I have recently gone through the naturalization process with exactly zero mention of my original nationality made by any Thai official anywhere along the way.

That's very interesting. Did you apply before the 2010 change mentioned in post #71, which says you have to sign a letter stating you will renounce your former nationality when your Thai nationality is granted?

As a 2006 PR applicant, with an application maybe lost forever in the world of Thai bureaucracy, and also married to a Thai, I was very interested in this possible route to citizenship. At least until I read the requirement to sign this letter. Much as I doubt that I will ever return full time to the UK, I still don't want to close of that option forever.

I applied for citizenship in 2007 and was granted it in late 2010.

Even if you sign some kind of letter of intent, though, that is not an actual renunciation of your former nationality. I don't see how Thai authorities could enforce or even follow up on that.

[lopburi3]

Just on the subject of Work Permits, I was told by a good source if you are legally married to a Thai, you don't need a Work Permit to work for them

.To work requires a work permit married or not. The only change for marriage is less capitalization and Thai workers required to qualify for work permit issue for the company.

[Khutan]

Just on the subject of Work Permits, I was told by a good source if you are legally married to a Thai, you don't need a Work Permit to work for them

.To work requires a work permit married or not. The only change for marriage is less capitalization and Thai workers required to qualify for work permit issue for the company.

I will dig up the emails if you want to send me a PM, but as I said, each case is different. It comes under the law of Alien Personal Servants married to a Thai. I would not suggest to do this unless you have very good legal advice.

[surayu]

Alien Personal Servants married to a Thai

Wow Khutan, that's one of the most intriguing defininitions i have read on the forum, please let us to know more, i am sure that there are many out there that would like to find out about this, can you imagine going back home and answer people asking you about your life in Thailand: " ...oh yes, i am an alien personal servant married to a thai" ...not meant to disrespect you or say that itsn't true by any means, it's just that choice of terms by the burocrats that brings the "smile"

[Arkady]

Khutan, I am sorry to say that while your post made me chuckle, it is nearly all junk based on stuff you have imagined or been told by other ignoramuses, even if some of them may have the audacity to describe themselves as lawyers and even charge for their baseless opinions.

Of course, you can get your Thai wife to be your nominee on a company's payroll while you do the work but this is clearly illegal under the Working of Aliens Act and the Immigration Act and could result in fines for company, you and your wife and a jail sentence, followed by deportation and blacklisting for yourself. Very clever solution.

Your theory making PR more difficult in order to make it more difficult to obtain citizenship is pure nonsense. In the case of males with Thai wives the requirement to have five years' residence in the Kingdom in order to apply for citizenship was waived under the 2008 amendments to the Nationality Act which resulted in the PR requirement for them being dropped in ministerial regulations. There is no back door attempt to block such applicants, if they are otherwise qualified, and most of the applicants who have applied since 2009 do not have PR. I can't say if any have got their ID cards yet but I do know that a number have already passed their interviews at the Interior Ministry. Unlike the inexplicable logjam of PR applications, the citizenship process has never ground to a halt and there has always been a steady trickle of approvals, which you can see in the Royal Gazette, if you have any appetite for original sources. My information is derived from successfully applying for PR myself and having applied for citizenship, as well as detailed research of relevant laws and regulations and the Royal Gazette in the original as well as many discussions with government officials who are involved with the processes.

Anyway if you working in Thailand illegally, there is no need for you to worry about PR or citizenship. Avoiding jail and deportation should be higher priorities.

[Khutan]

Khutan, I am sorry to say that while your post made me chuckle....

Well I wish I could say the same for your response. The only feeling I have is pity for you.

Maybe you can read what I said again before you reply.

[LivinLOS]

Ostensibly theThai women's group's case was lost but it must have had an impact anyway. For in the 2008 a new Nationality Act quietly dropped two conditions for foreign men with Thai wives, i.e. the requirement for five years' residence in Thailand and the requirement for knowledge of the Thai language. The interpretation in the ministerial regulations that followed was that PR is no longer necessary, nor is singing the Royal and National Anthems for males with Thai wives. All the other requirements for males remain, including the need for a profession in Thailand, a job paying at least B40k a month and three years' tax receipts.

So would this mean (me, married to a thai, on 2nd year of extensions due to marriage) that if I set up an inactive company, pay myself a 40k per month salary, for 3 years, I can go straight to the citizenship process ??

Thats less onerous than I had understood it.

[LivinLOS]

As with any other country, including Thailand, becoming a permanent resident is an expensive undertaking. Perhaps British and US nationals won't know this since you don't have to do it, but it is quite expensive to become a resident in the USA and UK. I think USD6,000 is probably a fair amount. This is really good news I think...

Its nothing to do with the cost, I would quite happily pay a few 100k (in the case of citizenship maybe half a mil) on any system that has clear mandated rules not open to interpretation and whims of various officials. I have no problem with standard time periods, precise amounts, and standardized tests. Its the lack of any of this that makes the problem.

[LivinLOS]

If my wife was to set up a business as sole proprietor and got a work permit for that business as GM or such and paid taxes for 3 years then I could skip PR and go to citizenship. I assume that a business would be OK verses the costs of setting up a company. If we did that then I could also use the tax payments as proof of income for my extensions. I don't mind paying some taxes to make my latter years of life easier if it can lead to getting citizenship..

Only properly registered, tax-paying companies can process paperwork like work permits. None of what you're talking about is cheap nor easy. If your only motivation is avoiding visa runs and such, definitely not worth the effort.

My question relates to.. Would a shell company, that merely held assets or investment, be looked on unfavourably, as long as it properly paid all its taxes ??

I mean to say, I have no problem paying taxes, I have no problem running up a few 100k in costs to put my foot in the door in 3 years time, but I have no interest in throwing away a few 100k if its going to be a case of "well this company isnt turning over a large amount in business, so we just throw his app to the pile in the back room"..

My problem is theres rules, and then theres how those rules are viewed through the lens of the processor. So any comment on this would be valuable to avoid getting any hopes up or starting a process that can never actually be completed.

Just to be clear, I dont have a job in Thailand, and never will have, but dont mind paying taxes on a salary drawn as an MD or other 'name' on a company I pay for.

[LivinLOS]

Some great info here thanks Arkady.

My one question is that if male, married, made regular charitable donations, but retired, does that mean it's not possible to get Citizenship because of the Job and salary requirement?

Surely there must be an "or equivalent" or simialr sentence in the law for rich people who don't work, or retired people?

Unfortunately there is no way around the requirement to have a profession in Thailand, as evidenced by documentation proving employment and three years' salaries tax receipts because this is specified in the Nationality Act. Wealthy people can of course easily finesse this by setting up a company to manage some investments in Thailand and employment themselves.

If my wife was to set up a business as sole proprietor and I got a work permit for that business as GM or such and paid taxes for 3 years then I could skip PR and go to citizenship. I assume that a business would be OK verses the costs of setting up a company. If we did that then I could also use the tax payments as proof of income for my extensions. I don't mind paying some taxes to make my latter years of life easier if it can lead to getting citizenship..

Theoretically this could work but you have to take into account that under the Nationality Act the approval of applications is up to the discretion of the minister. That means it is a not an automatic process whereby you get approved if you can tick all the boxes. "Up to the discretion of the minister" also means that the process is not subject to any form of appeal or judicial review for those who are rejected (or for those who just hear nothing for over 10 years). So now you are starting to get the picture. If there is something they don't like about your application, it can just be thrown into a pile of unpromising applications and left there permanently and there is nothing you can do about it. I personally would not want to go those the hassle of preparing an application on the flimsy basis of working for a Mickey Mouse company and I would think that a sole proprietorship would be a non-starter in terms of even obtaining a work permit. Remember that they want to get a feel that your presence in Thailand is making a significant contribution in terms of the knowledge and training you bring in your professional life.

When I said that wealthy people should be able to set up a company to employ themselves, I meant to say that it should also be a real business that provides employment to more than than the minimum four Thais and has more than the minimum Bt 2 million paid-up capital. The people who process citizenship (and PR) applications are not dumb and they have already seen all the scams you can think of and many others that you can't. But anyway, without PR and a tabian baan you are likely to be starting to be starting out 25 points down and you need 50 points out of 100 to even be allowed to submit your application and pay the fee. Being over 50 loses you another 2-5 points; not having a masters degree or PhD loses you another 2-7 points; not being able to read and write Thai and sing the Royal and National Anthems loses you 7 points, even if you can get the full 8 points for being able to speak and understand Thai fluently; being unable to read Thai fluently puts you at a considerable disadvantage in the written General Knowledge of Thailand multiple choice test which is worth 10 points.

And that is precisely my feeling and fear..

I have zero interest in diverting my time to run any form of business here.. The cost of distraction from other endeavours is way too high.

[LivinLOS]

double post

Edited May 13, 2012 by LivinLOS

[LivinLOS]

As a jump in topic.. Does anyone know any more about the 'buying' of PR via investment.

I know someone who did this, brought I think 1 mil USD (40m THB back then) into the country and I think he had a 5 year lockup.. He got PR on that basis. Does this still exist ??

What could i do with the money during that period ?? Equity / bonds only ??

[BigJohnnyBKK]

As with any other country, including Thailand, becoming a permanent resident is an expensive undertaking. Perhaps British and US nationals won't know this since you don't have to do it, but it is quite expensive to become a resident in the USA and UK. I think USD6,000 is probably a fair amount. This is really good news I think...

Its nothing to do with the cost, I would quite happily pay a few 100k (in the case of citizenship maybe half a mil) on any system that has clear mandated rules not open to interpretation and whims of various officials. I have no problem with standard time periods, precise amounts, and standardized tests. Its the lack of any of this that makes the problem.

Only properly registered, tax-paying companies can process paperwork like work permits. None of what you're talking about is cheap nor easy. If your only motivation is avoiding visa runs and such, definitely not worth the effort.

My question relates to.. Would a shell company, that merely held assets or investment, be looked on unfavourably, as long as it properly paid all its taxes ??

I mean to say, I have no problem paying taxes, I have no problem running up a few 100k in costs to put my foot in the door in 3 years time, but I have no interest in throwing away a few 100k if its going to be a case of "well this company isnt turning over a large amount in business, so we just throw his app to the pile in the back room"..

My problem is theres rules, and then theres how those rules are viewed through the lens of the processor. So any comment on this would be valuable to avoid getting any hopes up or starting a process that can never actually be completed.

Just to be clear, I dont have a job in Thailand, and never will have, but dont mind paying taxes on a salary drawn as an MD or other 'name' on a company I pay for.

Well Thailand will never have clear laws that aren't subject to the whims of TPTB, that's not how things work here, often the most important factor in whether something will be allowed is what side of bed that official got up on this morning.

However, most of the time if you follow the recommendations on doing things properly given here, the results should work out long-term.

By "here" I mean the authoritative posts on TV, most of the time lawyers will just get you into trouble, you should know exactly what you want before you go to them to implement it, don't ask them for advice on how to go about it.

There are no guarantees in life, especially when TiT. And of course "properly" is a matter of interpretation as well.

Any company you use for this purpose will need to show at least the minimum amount of activity and profits to pass normal casual inspection. An explicit "inactive shell" set up just to bypass Thai laws will be very easily struck off as invalid in any future crackdown.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

As stated before, I have recently gone through the naturalization process with exactly zero mention of my original nationality made by any Thai official anywhere along the way.

Did you sign the letter stating you'd renounce your other nationality?

As another wrote, that doesn't actually affect anything, but perhaps could be grounds for them revoking later on when the regime changes.