Mushroom Farming

[ray23]

Thanks we are cycling our old ones out now, expected to see more out of the new ones, it will come with time.

[mightymaxx]

Lots of great info here. I have been growing Oyster Mushrooms here in the states over the last couple of years...with mixed results. I ran out of money before I could really bring everything together. I was thinking about trying to do a bit of growing in Thailand when I move next spring. I used 8 foot column bags with wheat straw substrate. I was growing more temperate mushrooms so I had to worry about too high temps. I also build my own misting system. Reading this thread has given me hope that I might be able to do something similar. Thanks for all the info.

[zeichen]

that system that you see using bag logs like on "Let's Grow Mushrooms" or Shroomery web page, isn't cost efficient here. I also wonder why you would build a misting system for straw logs. You would end up getting more contaminants that way. Better to add moisture indirectly and not actually get it on the logs.

Better to just buy the local bag style do about 1k of them for a few months or take a course and learn about mycology if you want to grow your own spawn and do different Tek.

[ray23]

If you follow this thread you should find all you need to create a mushroom operation, for a lot less then you would there.

I don't know about a misting system may not even need one we don;'t use one.

Hot weather and rainy season Nong faa do well, Cold times Khong Khao do well.

If you plan on selling time it's key not to outgrow your market.

Not stepping on Thai toes is also important. Going into an existing market an under selling ( selling for less then the normal price)then the competition could bring a lot unwanted attention to you. My wife owns and operates the farm now. So I stay under the radar. I helped in doing research for her. So she knew what to do on her land.

Good Luck

[mightymaxx]

Thanks for the advice. Its my understanding that growing mushrooms can differ drastically by region. So it would not be wise for me to waltz into Thailand set in my ways. There is a lot of tribal knowledge when it comes to growing mushrooms and if I do decide to mess around with while I'm here I'll be sure to link up with a local expert first. The misting nozzles I had produced more of a fog than actually a mist. Because I'm running a HVAC system that continually dries out the air, I needed the fog/misters to keep my humidity to a satisfactory level. I imagine with the humidity in Thailand that might not be an issue, especially using heat friendly mushrooms.

This is the style of column bags I was using. I had 70 of these in this particular grow room.

you can see the "fog" that lingers shortly after a misting

Edited August 10, 2013 by mightymaxx

[tingtong]

i think humidity is just as important in Thailand, but a lot easier to maintain now, in the rainy season.

just a thought to misting system:

in our small operation wife+watering can=misting system!

works out to be both most enviromentally friendly and economical.

[Packdee]

There many ways to maintain humidity in a mushroom house.
I modified a pond ultra sound fogger by placing the fogger head in a plastic container
and adding a Chinese made blower.
It works well with capacity 3 liters/hour.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Packdee

[ray23]

What kind of mushrooms are those Col.?

I like that mister, I tried to make one didn't come anywhere close to that

The common way here is to keep the dirt floor wet. We do that and supplement with a fine mist when watering. The trick with Nong Faa is not getting to wet with the mister. If you do you have to open them up and let them dry out. If you do that then you will cut down the production time. as you get a lot fast. That is somethng we do about a month before they are due to be replaced

Khon Khao io the other hand you can really wet them down and they like it.

Be careful about local Thai's they tend to think more then they really do. I recommend you ask here you will get answers in English that you can understand from people who know what they are doing from personal experience.

[zeichen]

exactly ray. That is probably why the guy had low production is that there was too much water touching the mushrooms. Even though oysters are easy to grow overall and require less fuss than other species they are a delicate mushroom and cannot deal with water unlike other hardy varieties.

Those must be the Milky mushrooms. When I get back next year, I am definitely getting a few spawn bags of this type. I am really interested in the flavor of these and creating some recipes that showcase the flavor better. Might help with marketing them if people actually can eat them in dishes before buying them. I think that there size and color are so impressive, you would think that they would sell themselves but as they stated in the other thread, hard to create a market with people who are less than experimental.

[IsaanAussie]

Unfortunately my camera has died or I would post a picture of my "Shroom Boxes". I have made up some grow boxes for DIY home use. To my surprise the Milkys have grow very big. I have several over 10" diameter. Very pleased as it is the second flushing.

[zeichen]

Oyster mushrooms prefer a substrate that is fibrous or celloulose based so things like saw dust, straw etc are good substrates, but what about the milky what works for you on that, do you use a different composition for the for the casing layer or same as substrate?

[IsaanAussie]

I have used rice straw and also rice hull substrates. Since I am still a newbie to mushroom growing I am yet to decide which is best. I use a 50/50 blend of compost and carbonised rice hull as the casing. As noted above humidity control is critical and remains my biggest issue. Establishing a new bed with a 60% moisture level in the casing is easy enough, but trying to hold it there is frustrating. I find the compost gives better moisture retention than just CRH. I have also seem to have more success with mass cased beds rather than seperate bags.

I would like to try oyster mushrooms in the same type of beds once I improve my techniques and humidity tents.

[IsaanAussie]

This Milky was grown in one of our DIY Grow Boxes. We let it grow out to as big as it could, some 750gm. You can of course pick the shrooms at a smaller size, upto you. The box will flush (fruit) 3 or 4 times over a few months and produce some 4 kgs of mushrooms. We have developed an easy as Mushroom Pie process for the home grower and at 250 baht a box they are a cheap source of fresh mushrooms and a bit of fun.

[ray23]

Anyone else catch the article in the Bangkok Post or Nation about the mushroom farmer that sealed his grow house and fumigated. Apparently he didn't clear it enough before he went in. Killed him and three others.

Something to be aware of.

[IsaanAussie]

Anyone else catch the article in the Bangkok Post or Nation about the mushroom farmer that sealed his grow house and fumigated. Apparently he didn't clear it enough before he went in. Killed him and three others.

Something to be aware of.

<deleted> did he use?

[cutieloudmouth]

Anyone else catch the article in the Bangkok Post or Nation about the mushroom farmer that sealed his grow house and fumigated. Apparently he didn't clear it enough before he went in. Killed him and three others.

Something to be aware of.

<deleted> did he use?

this one? "Without proper oxygenation, the gypsum in mushroom compost, which contains calcium sulfate, could turn into hydrogen sulfide — a toxic gas, according to Art Bomke, associate professor of land and food systems at the University of B.C."

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=d8c69fe2-95f0-411f-aa8b-3aa7f705539b

or perhaps http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/28/b-c-mushroom-farm-deaths-entirely-preventable-report-finds/

[ray23]

Well it would seem it does happen. We have good ventilation in our houses just based on their design. Everyone we have bought plants from has stressed that.

The person who sprays uses a mask when working and we don't immediately move in plants on on.

II will try to post a link to the article.

[ray23]

It was in the Bangkok News alerts this morning.

Breakingnews >

Four suffocate in mushroom chamber

• Published: 13 Aug 2013 at 16.44
• Online news:

Four people have been found dead inside a small, sealed-off building used for growing mushrooms in Ubon Ratchatani’s Nam Yuen district. Police suspect they suffocated from lack of oxygen.

Pol Lt Prakong Boonsupa, an investigator at Nam Yuen police station, on Tuesday said the deceased were identified as Satorn Lathulee, owner of the mushroom growing chamber, 43, and his relatives, Supawinee Lathulee, 20, Sompong Gaetmanee, 39, and a 15-year-old who was not named.

He said they had been dead for at least six hours when discovered and their bodies showed no signs of a struggle or violence.

Sangiam Lathulee, 45, a relative, told police that she discovered their bodies on Monday night.

She said Mr Satorn had smoked the fruiting chamber on Saturday, to set the right temperature for indoor mushroom cultivation.

Police believed that Mr Satorn passed out due to lack of oxygen in the chamber when he was taking care of his mushrooms. When his relatives went in to help they fell unconscious for the same reason.

All of them then suffocated.

Edited August 14, 2013 by ray23

[IsaanAussie]

Where are the missing posts? This is getting boring! If the NSA is playing minds games then go do it somewhere where there is a threat. If it is just part of the trnsition to an new ISP then get your act together mods and admin staff.

Edited August 14, 2013 by IsaanAussie

[zeichen]

that is an awesome mushroom. I don't think that I would grow them higher than 250 gmrs though just for convenience in preparing. I suggest that you look into the farmers fairs that most universities have. I know in CM there are at least 3-4 a year which are awesome, you will get a lot of interest if you have a couple samples that size of course your wife is a good representative also. She seems to be very kind and friendly in her demeanor from the photos. Those DYI boxes would probably sell really well. Funny that you do that, I was thinking of the same thing a few months ago. I was surprised that they are not available for the most part as they are quite popular in the US. 250 baht is pretty reasonable price also since you are getting about 4kilos from it. And you are still making a good profit margin on them, just need to get sales though. Tough starting a market where it doesn't exist.

I really congratulate you on your effort.

When I get back from China next year, I will have to buy some spawn bags from Col. and start a few rows of them myself. They really do look awesome. But really how do they taste compared to the other popular edibles here?

[Packdee]

I am not sure 100% that the Hydrogen cyanide gas caused their death.
The man used cassava peel as main substrate for growing straw mushroom.
Cassava peel is the waste of cassava starch processing.
Mushroom growers pay only 100 Baths for a metric ton of cassava peel.

Cassava is a cyanide containing crop.

The cassava peel releases Hydrogen cyanide gas unless it is treated properly.

Normally mushroom growers will compost cassava peel for a week.

Steaming the substrate in the whole growing chamber to bring temperature up and stay at to 70 – 80 degrees C for 3 – 5 hours will get rid of the cyanide.

In this case the man had already steamed his growing chamber and spawned the substrate.
After spawning the growing chamber will be completely closed for about 5 days to develop as much as carbon dioxide gas which increase the growth of mycelium.

It is the rule of straw mushroom growing that during incubation period do not open the growing chamber or no one should enter the growing chamber.

The man might forget this rule.

[ray23]

It's good to know where the dangers are. I don't do straw mushrooms and never would have thought of that.

Doing Khon khao and Nong Faa everything is ventilated. Not much to do in that first ten days. Take a peek every now and then that's about it.

We are still in the replacement mode an 2K being put in today, Been about three weeks since we did the lime and insecticide, where they are going. We do all our repairs first then do the lime Ect.

So the working atmosphire should be fine.

[IsaanAussie]

The medical examiners will tell us but I agree with Col. Packdee. CO2 would have just made them unconscious. Used to "stun" pigs before slaughter. Perhaps growers should release a few birds for luck before entering themselves?

[zeichen]

Ray I assume that your bags have already done 10 days in the fruiting chamber before they sell it though. Also oyster mushrooms actually prefer a little less Co2. But typically to get them to the pinning stage, you need no light, higher humidity, temperature and less co2. Then you shock them into action by lowering temp and giving oxygen.

[ray23]

I;m sure they are w order them about two months ahead of time. It's usually three weeks before they get real active. But from a suggestion here we stage the orders to try for a fairly constant production.

Ive kept good records so I know when I should be thinking about ordering again. The current price we are getting is 7 baht. As small as we are I don't think we could do much better making our own bags.

Col has really been a lot of help explaining things to my Thai Brother in law. He works part time and has his own business as well. If we make the bags that will double our labor costs. I don't believe we are big enough for that, nor am I sure that market will support that.

That could change as after this year I will be expanding more, if things go as expected this year.

[zeichen]

You would either double labor for those periods or need to invest on automation. The real problem would be finding cheap suppliers for bulk substrates and the bags themselves. However if you did it right you could save more than 50%. Shouldn't be more than about 3 baht per bag. You also wouldn't need to be making bags everyday. 1k a day operation work for 3-5 days once a month or so. But the real problem would be quality control and a more methodical approach to making spawn. If you could find a perfect strain and clone it you could have much higher growth even from the same batch of mushrooms.

The government paper that Col shared shows a pretty good model for production and stated that if you are growing over 2 huts worth 4-8k bags, making your own bags is more cost effective. Also if you can maintain a higher standard of spawn than others, you could make even more profit selling the bags alone.

One think that I thought might help is to mark the bags with a noticeable marker when you harvest mushrooms from them. You might find that you will have 1-10% of bags not produce at all. I know that you keep good details about production but not sure if you actually check to see which bags are producing more. Those would be the ones that I would clone.

Of course, I shouldn't be giving advice. You are the one making money and actually doing it commercially. I am still in the planning stages. I am still learning how to develop better or any spawn. I have had a few attempts fail miserably even in highly sterile environment.

I am definitely going to spend a week or so at Col's farm. Even if he didn't offer so much wonderful guidance, it looks like a lovely place to relax and reasonable rates for a guest house.

[tingtong]

i also believe that making your bags should have a margin of at least 2 baht/bag...

ie. in case of Ray's operation at around/near 3000 bags a months ( 14.000 rotatad every 5 months or about) that should make a decent saving.

that should add around 6000thb/month to the bottom line...and would involve about 3 days of work with them at the rate of 1000 bags/day.

also, as a trend the bags price is rising ( just like everything else) so, that would always give an edge maing your own, ie. less money layout after the initial investment for mashinary/tools.

especially if expansion in mind.

as for making more, and selling on...as long as the reputation is good that your bags producing good, and the price is fairly good, ppl will buy from you...i know i would

we make the trip to Udon to buy our bags, currently at 6.5thb+ our transportation cost vs. 8 thb locally...

last round was 1k khon kao +1k nang rong....

all i can tell, if you want to be looked at, drive an Etan!! a farang attracts more attention on an Etan, than a Ferrari in Issan, that is my experience. but all is/was positive attention, doesnt matter from police, divers, or otherwise

while etan is slow and it is a long drive, my diesel cost was just shy of 500thb hauling home 2000 bags...vs the pickup would take 1000 bags and nearly double that diesel cost...( and would need to go 2x, so cost x2 as well)...total cost per bags delivered (by me) only 6.75thb ( vs the local 8thb+ still need to deliver)....consider it a good deal.

btw, while khon kao is about to start producing, nang rong is thru the first round....from the 1000 bags on the top day was 22.5kg...that is our new high...also a record on the Nong Rua market, 20 min to offload all

After the first round, we already stand 70% of the money recouped, so, very positive outlook on this batch.

[ray23]

we pay 7 baht now. delivered. So far production has been OK with what we have.

Man you would have laughed yourself silly normally they bring a pick up with 2K bags. Not this time, this time they had on the larger Baht Buses that go out in the country. 4K bags on it. It got stuck. He had to hire a tractor to get pulled out and we wheeled the mushrooms to the house. Lucky we have a large cart and wheel barrow there.

We tried digging it out jacking it up an getting things under the tires. But he was buried to the axles. He probably ended up in that mess a the truck would not turn to the left properly.

Be at least a month before we see anything out of these..

Everyone's situationis different. The Col has been kind enough to teach the brother in law. But, he is like a leaf in the wind. Each day he goes a different direction. So I invest in the equipment get him trained and I have no idea if he will stay or not. Finding someone to work in Udon these days ain't easy. If someone wants a job they have one. My Brother in Law is a hard worker, but pays no attention to detail.

So the safest thing for me to do is keep buying at the prices I'm getting now I can actually get them at 6 baht, we bought Khon Khao at the that price wasn't; happy with the production or maybe a better way to explain lack of production. I may give the guy a shot at 1K Nong Faa. Just to see if it works out. nice enough of a guy I would rick another 1K and see if it was just a bad day for him.

Edited August 15, 2013 by ray23

[tingtong]

Ray, i most certainly agree with what you say, that everyone's situation is different.

Of course, i understand your point, has a pension, and all, like to rest more than be there to do the things. And that is normal.

I am younger, dont have and wont have a pension when the time comes, so, willing to take more risk, and work more toward an income that wont only support my wife, but both of us hopefully, from some point on.

As i sincerely hope that both her and me will be around for another 40 yrs at least!

As for the load factor, thai are famously overloading whatever they have, like their sugarcane trucks here where we live.... but i like to arrive too. So i dont plan to push to the limit the load, especially as we have a few kms of dirt road on the last part, and itis not fun to get stucked in the mud.

[cutieloudmouth]

etan trucks http://boingboing.net/2009/08/02/incredible-thai-etan.html

not sure getting attention is the way to go for farang.