2 Out Of Three Thai Families Are In Debt: Survey

[webfact]

2 out of three families are in debt: survey

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- According to the Thai Family Studies Association, 10.5 million of 15 million Thai families it surveyed are in debt, while 1.2 million of them are unable to pay back.

Panpimol Wipulakorn, the association's secretary-general, said yesterday that parents were busy working to repay these debts and thus did not have time to take proper care of their children.

The association and allied organisations will meet the 4th "Thai families warmth promotion operation" on Thursday and Friday to discuss the new challenges, recommendations and lessons from successful operations to strengthen families.

Call (02) 591 6848 for details.

Panpimol said changes in Thai society, including technology, an ageing society and fast-changing economic and financial systems, have left people vulnerable and unable to resist behaviour such as alcohol abuse, gambling and adultery.

Citing a 2009-2011 study on 4,000 families nationwide, she said most people were far too focused on income and economic status.

The association and Mahidol University's National Institute for Child and Family Development conducted the survey.

According to the survey, 70 per cent of the families had debts in 2011, 8 |per cent were unable to pay.

It is this need to pay back debts that is forcing people to work longer hours, which means they have no time for their kids, leaving them in the care of others.

-- The Nation 2012-05-09

[ralphlsasser]

No surprise. They buy new trucks and cars only putting money down to make people think they have money, when they don't even have a job. A new vehicle and getting drunk are more important than working and paying their bills. TIT

[Superdude]

Give them more accessibility to credit, it will not get better

[apetley]

One of the reasons has to be too easy credit from the banks and finance houses.

I wonder what sort of checks are in place to assess peoples ability to pay?

As an example I know a Thai guy who worked on our house a few years ago. He earns maybe 12 k bht a month. Recently he bought a brand new pickup on which the payments are nearly 8 k bht per month. He is married and has two kids.

His wife works when she can but I know they are struggling to make ends meet.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[Curt1591]

With a 10,000 THB per month salary, one can qualify for a Citibank card!

It's only going to get worse.

[noitom]

They say that they surveyed 15 million families. My a--. That is a preposterous claim and the newspaper should take responsibility for not smoking out this ridiculous claim. Secondly, it's a shame that the content is allowed to be cited unchallenged. For example, "parents are so busy working to pay off the debts that they did not have time to "take proper care of their children."

Well, which came first , taking proper care and providing parenting, values, and skills to understand responsibility, accountability, fairness, achievement, knowledge, value of money, and hard work or frivolous and irresponsible spending to impress and cater to material self centered pompous attitudes? Which came first , the chicken or the egg? Putting the children off to grandma with no teeth so that a good time could be had and debts and obligations run up?

Or was it frivolous, unplanned, and ridiculous business schemes at the root of loan shark borrowing? It was this behavior that set the example for generations to follow. It was irresponsible parenting that came first. The sooner that Thais learn to take responsibility for their own behavior and actions the faster they will step toward change. Once they are able to stop making others responsible for their happiness, then we will see if they have time to develop themselves as well as their children.

[GentlemanJim]

Well, I am only guessing but I would have thought that the number of families in debt in the UK and US would be higher. Much of Thailand is still a cash society, I don't know if the debt issue is as out of control as it is in the West for many families. I suppose comparative size of debt is an important issue. The way I have seen most families end up in huge debt is with the Father or Mother taking to gambling, be it on football, lottery or cards. The problem is massive. God help the day they ever allow casinos in this country.

[sparebox2]

American family have no debt.

[jalansanitwong]

Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money.

When was the last time anyone saw a Thai with a cheque book ? Can you imagine banks giving Thai's a cheque account ?

Probably 99% of cheques would bounce in Thailand.

The never stop gambling. Not unusual for a Thai to lose 15-20,000b in a night of cards.

Loan sharks both Thai and Indian charging 20% per day or 20% per month depending on the amount. Police involved in this scam as well.

Most homicides and suicides can be put down to gambling problems.

This augers well for the sexpats as more families will dump their daughters and wives in pattaya and Hua Hin in the hope of landing an old generous farang.

Anyone been to Pattaya lately ? Amazing place and very busy with old farangs.

[geriatrickid]

Unless the term debt is defined, this report means nothing.

A mortgage is debt.

A credit card purchase is a debt.

A vehicle lease is a debt.

However, if one is current on the mortgage and lease payments, and pays off the credit cad bill every month, is this person to be scolded for carrying debt?

In today's world, most people cannot afford a home unless they take on debt, i.e. a mortgage.

[Unkomoncents]

Which means, given the penchant for face-saving, that three out of three families are in debt. That wouldn't surprise anyone. Insofar as the debtors are secret, Thais will fundamentally manipulate economics in the aim of saving face. Rational economic policies don't work in Thailand because of the exaggerated importance of LOOKING (as opposed to actually BEING) wealthy and (therefore) powerful. Just look at housing prices in Thailand relative to its neighbors after the 1997 "tiger economy" fiasco.

[ginjag]

Vast amount of families live on credit, let's face it you cannot have mobiles(4 to a family) motorbikes -tele -stereo -whitening creams -dogs -Farm tuk tuk -fireworks -etc and live off a daily farm wage, but they do.

The house deeds are the main way to get money from the bank. BUT look at their houses once built very rare do they paint-maintain-garden-wall or fence off, any repairs are done=or bodged. Kids are running around without trousers, bare foot and snotty nosed. Dad has his lao khao. mam does her gambling, 1000 bht cocks for fighting are next to the house. I DID SAY NOT ALL Thai. What do you expect, then the P.M. says price rises --no way. They are all their lives living a lie.

[ginjag]

This survey done sounds about right, but how they surveyed it --well ???  I think they surveyed 1 million and multiplied it.

[ThailandInvestmentGuide]

Unless the term debt is defined, this report means nothing.

A mortgage is debt.

A credit card purchase is a debt.

A vehicle lease is a debt.

However, if one is current on the mortgage and lease payments, and pays off the credit cad bill every month, is this person to be scolded for carrying debt?

In today's world, most people cannot afford a home unless they take on debt, i.e. a mortgage.

Correct. Read this article (and an earlier one in the same blog) for a different take on this issue:

http://asiancorrespondent.com/81931/household-debt-in-thailand-is-it-unsustainable-part-2/

[Pib]

What a useless survey...people carrying a debt load is common across the world....with home mortgages, car loans, credit cards,etc., being where the great majority of the debt load is carried...all of this debt load supposedly providing a better quality of life.

To say it again, what a useless survey. But I guess it creates a job for some folks and gives newspapers writers something to plagiarize...and something for folks to comment on. That reminds me, did I pay my credit card bill for this month yet?

[trainman34014]

In Wifey's old village a woman hung herself only last week because of debts. Her Husband works in Qatar and sends back good money but in the last three years he has only been back once and she blew the lot gambling, drinking and bragging to show her friends how big it was to have a Husband working abroad and earning high money compared to all around her. She was borrowing cash from money lenders big time to cover her gambling debts and had no way of ever paying it back, and when the Husband announced he was returning for three months next week she topped herself before he found out the ugly truth.

[GentlemanJim]

Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money.

When was the last time anyone saw a Thai with a cheque book ? Can you imagine banks giving Thai's a cheque account ?

Probably 99% of cheques would bounce in Thailand.

The never stop gambling. Not unusual for a Thai to lose 15-20,000b in a night of cards.

Loan sharks both Thai and Indian charging 20% per day or 20% per month depending on the amount. Police involved in this scam as well.

Most homicides and suicides can be put down to gambling problems.

This augers well for the sexpats as more families will dump their daughters and wives in pattaya and Hua Hin in the hope of landing an old generous farang.

Anyone been to Pattaya lately ? Amazing place and very busy with old farangs.

Because nobody in Thailand wants a cheque account. Are you aware that if you bounce a cheque in Thailand the police take you directly to jail and you stay there until the amount of money that bounced is paid. The cheque is a far more terrifying thing for a Thai to leave as security on a debt than for example a chanote deed. As security for a debt people will ask for a signed cheque for the amount and if your payment is overdue they will cash the cheque, if it bounces you go to jail, no questions asked, it is that simple. That is why no one wants a cheque account.

I wonder what lives people really lead when they turn every bit of news in to another excuse to mention 'sexpats'. Try not living or visiting those places and you will see what a perfectly normal nice country this is.

Trainman34014...That is really sad. I wonder how much her debt was in all honesty. To her a lot but I wonder if to an expat husband in the Middle East if it were really a significant amount of money.

Edited May 9, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Ferangled]

"Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money."

Personally I would have thought that title should be reserved for the US http://www.usdebtclock.org/

No other country even comes close...

Generally a bit of a non story, figures are dubious in the extreme - 15 million families surveyed? That's stretching the imagination somewhat!

Most Thais I know actually live to their means much better than their western counterparts, who are so accustomed to life in debt it's seen as normal... mortgage, car loan, credit cards, overdraft, store cards etc. You're seen as the exception to the rule if you're not in debt.

[sparebox2]

In Wifey's old village a woman hung herself only last week because of debts. Her Husband works in Qatar and sends back good money but in the last three years he has only been back once and she blew the lot gambling, drinking and bragging to show her friends how big it was to have a Husband working abroad and earning high money compared to all around her. She was borrowing cash from money lenders big time to cover her gambling debts and had no way of ever paying it back, and when the Husband announced he was returning for three months next week she topped herself before he found out the ugly truth.

Sad.

This only happen in Thailand.

No other countries in this world have the same problem.

[Curt1591]

American family have no debt.

This American has no debt; no mortgage, no credit card balance, no car payment.

I own my house, own my vehicles and have a VISA platinum credit card, with a half million baht line of credit.

Thanks for using Americans as your benchmark!

Edited May 9, 2012 by Curt1591

[Payboy]

15 million Thai families it surveyed

Even at the conservative average of 3 per family, they've surveyed about 45 million people.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Payboy

[Pib]

"Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money."

Personally I would have thought that title should be reserved for the US http://www.usdebtclock.org/

No other country even comes close...

Generally a bit of a non story, figures are dubious in the extreme - 15 million families surveyed? That's stretching the imagination somewhat!

Most Thais I know actually live to their means much better than their western counterparts, who are so accustomed to life in debt it's seen as normal... mortgage, car loan, credit cards, overdraft, store cards etc. You're seen as the exception to the rule if you're not in debt.

Yea, the U.S. definitely has a BIG debt but it is a country of over 300 million folks and has the largest economy in the world. Maybe a better comparison of debt would be to use a Percentage of GDP approach. With that approach and according to this 2011 CIA Fact Book estimate the U.S. is number 32 with plenty of western nations (mostly European nations) having a much higher percentage of GDP debt...and one wonders why Japan hasn't went belly-up yet with it HUGE percentage of GDP debt (maybe it's because the Japanese public holds much of the debt vs other countries). Thailand is number 78 on the list. No shortage of different debt rankings and ways to rank order the debt.

[sparebox2]

15 million Thai families it surveyed

Even at the conservative average of 3 per family, they've surveyed about 45 million people.

No one ask me any question.

Yes I do have a credit card.

[farang000999]

The only responsible form of debt is a mortgage for a home because the alternative is paying rent. Even then, you need to choose modestly and weigh all factors.

If you cannot buy a car in cash than you cannot afford it.

Credit cards should never be used.

[pedro01]

Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money.

When was the last time anyone saw a Thai with a cheque book ? Can you imagine banks giving Thai's a cheque account ?

Probably 99% of cheques would bounce in Thailand.

The never stop gambling. Not unusual for a Thai to lose 15-20,000b in a night of cards.

Loan sharks both Thai and Indian charging 20% per day or 20% per month depending on the amount. Police involved in this scam as well.

Most homicides and suicides can be put down to gambling problems.

This augers well for the sexpats as more families will dump their daughters and wives in pattaya and Hua Hin in the hope of landing an old generous farang.

Anyone been to Pattaya lately ? Amazing place and very busy with old farangs.

<deleted> is this nonsense?

I know lots of Thais with cheque books and before you go shooting off your mouth about 'bounced cheques' - you might want to educate yourself on the law concerned with bounced cheques. You may be surprised.

The rest of your post is just a bunch of anti-Thai generlisations. Never stop gambling? I have an office full of Thai people here that certainly have the appearance of not gambling right now. Hard working middle class people with mortgages, kids, schooll fees etc. These are fiscally responsible people.

Of course they have debt - a mortgage is debt, car payments are debt. This is not unique to Thailand.

[pedro01]

The only responsible form of debt is a mortgage for a home because the alternative is paying rent. Even then, you need to choose modestly and weigh all factors.

If you cannot buy a car in cash than you cannot afford it.

Credit cards should never be used.

LMAO!

Hardly anyone on the planet pays cash for a car.

[Ferangled]

The only responsible form of debt is a mortgage for a home because the alternative is paying rent. Even then, you need to choose modestly and weigh all factors.

If you cannot buy a car in cash than you cannot afford it.

Credit cards should never be used.

LMAO!

Hardly anyone on the planet pays cash for a car.

And thus the problem... I always remember the sage words of my old Grandpa, when buying a car ensure you have saved funds equal to twice the price for when it goes wrong.... if you don't stay on yer bike!

These words have served me well, I always pay cash for cars, get the best prices as a result and a "real" price at that, not having to add interest to the purchase price. With the incredible 2nd hand market in Thailand, this has led to over 10 years of virtually cost less motoring... we buy a car, use it for 2/3 years, then invariably sell it for nigh on exactly what we paid for it! Prices are ludicrously high, but if you play the system well that actually works in your favor.

Interest is often ignored when it comes to property, especially in the mortgages vs rent debate. When you calculate the actual amount paid taking into account 25 years of interest, in many cases house purchase becomes a nonsense and it would actually have been cheaper to rent long term! Of course again if you pay cash for property, you enjoy the same benefits as with a car, better purchasing power = a better price, and the price you pay is just that, not the agreed price + x amount of years of interest.

7 years in the same house here, having paid equivalent to 10 years rent to purchase land and house, paid in cash. If I'd mortgaged the same house over 20 years it would have cost me the equivalent of nearer 30 years rent.... then subtract any repairs, maintenance etc and it would have been a nonsense purchase. As it is, I am happy that we have saved money by buying, in another 3 years the investment would have paid for itself and if we sell the sales price is 100% profit, with the original purchase price writing off the rent...

[Unkomoncents]

"Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money."

Personally I would have thought that title should be reserved for the US http://www.usdebtclock.org/

No other country even comes close...

Generally a bit of a non story, figures are dubious in the extreme - 15 million families surveyed? That's stretching the imagination somewhat!

Most Thais I know actually live to their means much better than their western counterparts, who are so accustomed to life in debt it's seen as normal... mortgage, car loan, credit cards, overdraft, store cards etc. You're seen as the exception to the rule if you're not in debt.

Yep. No other country comes close. And no other country created the global economy. By the way, most Thais are in debt, as another article just revealed (today). That isn't surprising. Thailand is one of the slowest-growing ASEAN economies. You have no idea what you're talking about. The only reason you know Western economies are in debt is because they're honest about they're economic straits.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Unkomoncents

[Ferangled]

"Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money."

Personally I would have thought that title should be reserved for the US http://www.usdebtclock.org/

No other country even comes close...

Generally a bit of a non story, figures are dubious in the extreme - 15 million families surveyed? That's stretching the imagination somewhat!

Most Thais I know actually live to their means much better than their western counterparts, who are so accustomed to life in debt it's seen as normal... mortgage, car loan, credit cards, overdraft, store cards etc. You're seen as the exception to the rule if you're not in debt.

Yea, the U.S. definitely has a BIG debt but it is a country of over 300 million folks and has the largest economy in the world. Maybe a better comparison of debt would be to use a Percentage of GDP approach. With that approach and according to this 2011 CIA Fact Book estimate the U.S. is number 32 with plenty of western nations (mostly European nations) having a much higher percentage of GDP debt...and one wonders why Japan hasn't went belly-up yet with it HUGE percentage of GDP debt (maybe it's because the Japanese public holds much of the debt vs other countries). Thailand is number 78 on the list. No shortage of different debt rankings and ways to rank order the debt.

http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/world_debt/world_debt.html

The figures at the bottom of the page make interesting reading, showing total debt in comparison to economy (GDP)....

Only 3 countries listed here have a total debt exceeding the figures given for economy - US, Japan and Italy... clearly much of the bigger picture is lost with these sorts of statistics.

In regard to Japan's debt - Japan is a unique example. It holds a MASSIVE 225% debt to economy ratio. This is only possible because of loyalty of Japanese people to the Japanese government. Japan's people are the main buyers of Japanese government debt, and as long as they blindly buy the debt, and interest rates don't go up, they can practically run up the debt indefinitely.

This is all well and good but as you read on....The issues start when everyone starts wondering how they will get the money back. !!?!!

I think the same applies across the board - it's all well and good while there is an open ended source of credit and no one asks too many questions but how long can this go on? It's like a house of cards just waiting for one card to be removed and they'll all collapse...

It begs the question, how are the population of these countries expected to manage their own spending and debt when their nations can't?

[osiboy]

This survey done sounds about right, but how they surveyed it --well ??? I think they surveyed 1 million and multiplied it.

obviously had calculators for such a difficult task !