A Warning From Voters In Europe To Thai Populists: Editorial

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EDITORIAL

A warning from voters in Europe to Thai populists

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- France and Greece have said no to austerity, but their problems are a result of the kind of spending policies we are seeing now in this country

If the elections in France and Greece serve as indicators, European governments will have a tougher time pressing their citizens to accept austerity measures. Voters in those two countries do not want to tighten their belts and they have punished the governments that led them down the path of severe cutbacks by voting them out of office. Francois Hollande announced after winning the French presidency that, "Austerity can no longer be the only option." In Greece, two-thirds of the electorate voted for parties that seek to annul the austerity commitment.

The debt crisis was the most contentious issue during the weekend elections in Europe. France was earlier this year downgraded from a triple-A credit rating status. Nicolas Sarkozy, the outgoing French president, was defeated partly because of the protest against the European fiscal compact led by Germany. Although Sarkozy initially resisted the German move, he later supported it to maintain investors' confidence in the euro zone.

Greece is meanwhile struggling to stay afloat, in spite of a rescue deal from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the European Central Bank (ECB). Although the failure to contain the debt crisis in Greece could create a snowball effect continent-wide, Greeks don't want to make further sacrifice by taking more bitter medicine, even though it might be the only the option for survival.

While euro-zone leaders have to make difficult long-term political decisions, European voters do not want to make short-term sacrifices. The belt-tightening programmes, with cuts in public spending, may be unavoidable but will make life less comfortable for millions after years of big spending and populist benefits.

Thailand faced a similar crisis in 1997. The kingdom's foreign reserves were haemorrhaging. Investors withdrew their capital from the country in haste after they lost confidence in the Thai economy. But the kingdom managed to recover largely because the then-government decided to take a bitter pill in exchange for standby credit from the IMF.

At that time, then finance minister Tarrin Nimmanahaeminda had to make a series of decisions, which were unpopular politically, such as sharply raising the interest rate to restore the credibility of the baht. Tarrin managed to help the Thai economy recover. But his difficult decisions cost him his political career because austerity has never been popular with Thai voters.

Subsequent Thai governments, and the present one, however, seem to be unfazed by the prospect of going back to the same crisis. The later governments introduced populist policies at full-stream ahead in order to lure voters, who naturally want to get freebies and full benefits without having to work hard.

Thai politicians have realised how populism can be effective in enticing the voters. The bad news is that the effects of these populist policies can take years to accumulate before becoming a crisis. Irresponsible decisions by preceding governments can have severe consequences for later governments - as we have seen in the case in Greece. When voters become addicted to handouts and free benefits, the hardest part is how to end them when necessary.

Last weekend, voters in Greece and France abandoned the politicians who had a commitment to austerity. Newcomers can easily win in this situation because they can tell the voters what they want to hear: that they will no longer have to swallow bitter pills. This is easy to achieve during the election season, to win the votes. But such promises cannot be fulfilled without certain sacrifice.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel this week said she will not renegotiate the fiscal pact that sets tough budgetary rules for EU states, which she spearheaded along with Sarkozy. In the meantime, the EU leaders are unlikely to allow Greece to renege on its bailout commitment. Otherwise, the crisis will be contagious and spread to other countries such as Spain. The euro-zone debt crisis has also raised concerns among non-euro zone countries because the global financial markets are now so closely connected.

Meanwhile, this political reality check in France and Greece should serve as a lesson for Thailand, which could fall into the same trap if the country fails to curb its excessive populist spending.

-- The Nation 2012-05-11

[noitom]

The Road To Serfdom. or, the road back, depending on the case.

[Thai at Heart]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?c=th&v=143

Edited May 11, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[JurgenG]

According to my French customers, Sarkozy was defeated because he was an arrogant prick and people didn't like him.

Quite similar to Abhisit actually.

[sparebox2]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

Japan is the worst country in the world.

[jonclark]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

Japan is the worst country in the world.

No, Japan has the worst public debt as a % of GDP. It is not the worst country in the world. To make that statement you would need to look at areas such as infant mortality, education, healthcare, infrastructure, average income per capita etc, etc. Before making such a broad and in your case, erroneous statement

[OzMick]

According to my French customers, Sarkozy was defeated because he was an arrogant prick and people didn't like him.

Quite similar to Abhisit actually.

If we made an "Arrogance of Thai Politicians" table similar to the "Debt as % of GDP", Abhisit's ranking would be similar to Thailand's, and well below most of PTP's party list.

[OzMick]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

Government borrowing is restricted by law in Thailand. It is PTP's that this should be changed and that some debt can be shuffled off the books, which is only fooling themselves. I expect an increase in ranking is imminent.

[w11guy]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

Japan is the worst country in the world.

No, Japan has the worst public debt as a % of GDP. It is not the worst country in the world. To make that statement you would need to look at areas such as infant mortality, education, healthcare, infrastructure, average income per capita etc, etc. Before making such a broad and in your case, erroneous statement

You are spot on. Not all dept is bad. Most people in Western countries have mortgages and that is generally a good things. Many of these people have debts much larger than Japan's but get along just fine. As long as the borrowing is for investment and it able to be paid back, the debt can be good. It gets bad when the money is wasted and when it gets so high that it can't be paid back. When countries and people have low debt simply because they are poor and no-one will lend them money. That doesn't make the country better than countries with more debt.

[Thai at Heart]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

Government borrowing is restricted by law in Thailand. It is PTP's that this should be changed and that some debt can be shuffled off the books, which is only fooling themselves. I expect an increase in ranking is imminent.

Well that is all possible, but I am sick and tired of the Nation peddling this alarmist b*******s that PTP will tip Thailand into the same situation as Greece in a few years.

[jonclark]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

Government borrowing is restricted by law in Thailand. It is PTP's that this should be changed and that some debt can be shuffled off the books, which is only fooling themselves. I expect an increase in ranking is imminent.

Well that is all possible, but I am sick and tired of the Nation peddling this alarmist b*******s that PTP will tip Thailand into the same situation as Greece in a few years.

I agree with you there seems to be an almost pathological conspiracy that PTP will cause Thailand to collapse under the burden of public debt. I don't think that is going to happen.

But I do think the government needs to urgently tackle the levels of personal debt that many ordinary folk find themselves up against. And unless that is tackled and people are educated about personal debt, domestic demand will (like US and UK) continue to be fueled by individuals borrowing money to drive the consumer economy. And that could cause significant problems in the long term, but unlikely an economic collapse

Edited May 11, 2012 by jonclark

[h90]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

But keep in mind that the numbers are complete fake. Because every country fake that numbers they can be still compared to each other, but to full extend....

In Austria it is discussed in length that the numbers are complete fake and there are complex constructs to hide the debts.

Easiest to understand example: having the state owned railway having billions of debts. All the money the government give for the railway are just borrowed to the state railway. But there isn't even a remote hope that they will ever pay it back.

there are thousands of other constructs that can't be understood so easily....

So never trust these figures.....

[Time Traveller]

Those figures, are actually net public debt. not total public debt.

[phiphidon]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

The Nation has previous with the Thailand / Greece comparison, this from last year

Stoking fear about Thailand’s debt

By Bangkok Pundit Jul 11, 2011 3:30PM UTC

..........................BP: This is spending by the Abhisit government though. The increase in revenue is still not able at the level of the increase in expenditure. Nevertheless, public debt to GDP at 41.03% should not lead one to make Greece comparisons even if debt may increases in the next few years because debt in Greece is at a completely different level to Thailand.

http://asiancorrespo...-thailand-debt/

[Thai at Heart]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

But keep in mind that the numbers are complete fake. Because every country fake that numbers they can be still compared to each other, but to full extend....

In Austria it is discussed in length that the numbers are complete fake and there are complex constructs to hide the debts.

Easiest to understand example: having the state owned railway having billions of debts. All the money the government give for the railway are just borrowed to the state railway. But there isn't even a remote hope that they will ever pay it back.

there are thousands of other constructs that can't be understood so easily....

So never trust these figures.....

I didn't tell anyone to trust them 100%, however, 44% is the figure that is bandied around within the economics circles to describe Thailand's public debt situation. Well below a level that will trigger any issue concerning the fiscal stability of the country. Yes, countries jig the numbers in many ways, one being the UK which has huge off balance sheet public liabilities, but obviously the "financial" community doesn't consider these in the same way hence the UK's position in the list. It also makes no measurement of the "term" of these debts, which in some countries is very long term, and others less which is why for example the UK is still considered in a AAA situation in comparison with some other very large EU countries.

The Thai economy is growing 3 to 5% a year, government tax take is still very low here in comparison with other countries and will probably be increased, so there is leeway to spend. Instead of worrying so much that Thailand will end up in a situation like Greece, the debate should be more about how to spend the money they borrow more effectively. Thailand is eons away from creating the level of publicly funded entitlements like Europe or even worse Greece.

[Colin Yai]

[media=]

[/media] I am getting very depressed reading day in day out about the failed EU economy ,maybe its time for the "light hearted approach, watch the Video! Edited May 11, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Thai at Heart]

I am getting very depressed reading day in day out about the failed EU economy ,maybe its time for the "light hearted approach, watch the Video!

Well the funniest (or unfunniest joke) of them all is that the whole premise was that the the Greek government's credit worthiness was actually considered in the same continents as Germany's.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[ianf]

According to my French customers, Sarkozy was defeated because he was an arrogant prick and people didn't like him.

Quite similar to Abhisit actually.

Strange that I agree with you about Sarkozsky but 100% disagree with you about Abhisit. Anything but arrogant if you ask me. Quite the opposite.

[Crushdepth]

Rank Country Public debt (% of GDP)

1 Japan 225.8

2 Saint Kitts and Nevis 185

3 Lebanon 150.7

4 Zimbabwe 149

5 Greece 144

6 Iceland 123.8

7 Jamaica 123.2

8 Italy 118.1

9 Singapore 102.4

10 Belgium 98.6

11 Ireland 94.2

12 Sudan 94.2

13 Sri Lanka 86.7

14 Canada 84

15 France 83.5

16 Portugal 83.2

17 Egypt 80.5

18 Belize 80

19 Hungary 79.6

20 Germany 78.8

21 Dominica 78

22 Nicaragua 78

23 Israel 77.3

24 United Kingdom 76.5

25 Austria 70.4

26 Malta 69.1

27 Netherlands 64.6

28 Spain 63.4

29 Cote d'Ivoire 63.3

30 Jordan 61.4

31 Brazil 60.8

32 Mauritius 60.5

33 Ghana 59.9

34 Albania 59.3

35 Bahrain 59.2

36 United States 58.9

37 Seychelles 58.8

38 Morocco 58.2

39 Bhutan 57.8

40 Guyana 57

41 Vietnam 56.7

42 Philippines 56.5

43 Uruguay 56

44 India 55.9

45 Croatia 55

46 El Salvador 55

47 Poland 53.6

48 Malaysia 53.1

49 Kenya 50.9

50 Argentina 50.3

51 Pakistan 49.9

52 Tunisia 49.5

53 Turkey 48.1

54 Norway 47.7

55 Denmark 46.6

56 Aruba 46.3

57 Latvia 46.2

58 Finland 45.4

59 Colombia 44.8

60 United Arab Emirates 44.6

61 Costa Rica 42.4

62 Thailand 42.3

Greece nestles just below Zimbabwe in the list. Only 58 places to go to reach the same position. The government would have to break spending records for a 20 years to get anywhere this situation. And this makes no allowance for the Thai economy growing.

http://www.indexmund...aspx?c=th&v=143

Government borrowing is restricted by law in Thailand. It is PTP's that this should be changed and that some debt can be shuffled off the books, which is only fooling themselves. I expect an increase in ranking is imminent.

Well that is all possible, but I am sick and tired of the Nation peddling this alarmist b*******s that PTP will tip Thailand into the same situation as Greece in a few years.

Alarmist? This government can't even grasp high school economics. Most of their barely considered 'policies' were on financial death row and talking about borrowing to 'sustain' them right out of the gate: Oil fund, rice pledging, etc etc etc.

And its not like Thailand hasn't been on IMF life support before.

[Thai at Heart]

Alarmist? This government can't even grasp high school economics. Most of their barely considered 'policies' were on financial death row and talking about borrowing to 'sustain' them right out of the gate: Oil fund, rice pledging, etc etc etc.

And its not like Thailand hasn't been on IMF life support before.

Well, I will willingly take 100 baht bet that Thailand won't be going to the IMF in the next 10 years.

[Skywalker69]

[media=]

[/media] I am getting very depressed reading day in day out about the failed EU economy ,maybe its time for the "light hearted approach, watch the Video!

Thanks Colin Yai, it made my day .

[Colin Yai]

[media=]

[/media] I am getting very depressed reading day in day out about the failed EU economy ,maybe its time for the "light hearted approach, watch the Video!

Thanks Colin Yai, it made my day .

Well Skywalker unless we have a laugh now and again at our predicament within the EU and not view it so serious(although it is) we could well all finish up on Valium!

[hyperdimension]

Well that is all possible, but I am sick and tired of the Nation peddling this alarmist b*******s that PTP will tip Thailand into the same situation as Greece in a few years.

I don't think it was written anywhere that Thailand could get into the same situation as Greece in just a "few years". The point is that it can eventually get there if governments lack discipline in continuing to borrow significant amounts of money and then throwing it around via massive populist policies.

At each new election campaign, political parties have to promise even more than previously in order to compete. The costs (and therefore debts) can snowball after each election cycle, and may rarely be cut back. If the GDP increases at or more than the rate of debt increase, then there's no problem, but in reality GDP doesn't always increase every year (e.g. Thailand's GDP % change in 1998 was -10.51%), yet interest payments still needs to be made on the debt regardless.

Edited May 11, 2012 by hyperdimension

[Skywalker69]

[media=]

[/media] I am getting very depressed reading day in day out about the failed EU economy ,maybe its time for the "light hearted approach, watch the Video!

Thanks Colin Yai, it made my day .

Well Skywalker unless we have a laugh now and again at our predicament within the EU and not view it so serious(although it is) we could well all finish up on Valium!

Skip the Valium lets go for some Single malt, it´s more fun.

[Skywalker69]

As the PM and PTP is living in a bubble no warnings from EU will get through,sad (for Thailand that is)

[gand]

[media=]

[/media] I am getting very depressed reading day in day out about the failed EU economy ,maybe its time for the "light hearted approach, watch the Video!

Sounds like he needs a good Rogering.

[gand]

It should be illegal for govts to borrow money, it is a scam by the banksters, wall stealers and politicians to enslave the citizens, they all get rich and the citizens get bent over and screwed.

[OzMick]

It's the same old bullshit, here in Thailand as everywhere else: The 5% at the top own 95% of the wealth, but they want to clean up their budgets on the backs of the poor. If I wasn't afraid of getting in trouble for saying it, I would mimic that famous Australian by saying, "Burn the fuc_ker down!" But I am afraid. I'm not one of the 5%.

Which famous Australian? Google gives me a yank band Dead PA.

[Thai at Heart]

Well that is all possible, but I am sick and tired of the Nation peddling this alarmist b*******s that PTP will tip Thailand into the same situation as Greece in a few years.

I don't think it was written anywhere that Thailand could get into the same situation as Greece in just a "few years". The point is that it can eventually get there if governments lack discipline in continuing to borrow significant amounts of money and then throwing it around via massive populist policies.

At each new election campaign, political parties have to promise even more than previously in order to compete. The costs (and therefore debts) can snowball after each election cycle, and may rarely be cut back. If the GDP increases at or more than the rate of debt increase, then there's no problem, but in reality GDP doesn't always increase every year (e.g. Thailand's GDP % change in 1998 was -10.51%), yet interest payments still needs to be made on the debt regardless.

All possible, which is just as well that thailand has such a whopping amount of forex then. I don't mind the point that reckless spending can wreck a county, I just like it if people consider the position that Thailand is in today and recognize that it is in a good fiscal position and that as a developing country grows it is natural that it spends some of its wealth on development. The issue is on what and how it should be spent, not to discuss that impending doom comes with all government debt. Comparing Europe and Thailand is ludicrous. The social costs aren't comparable, the pension obligations aren't tcomparable.

A teacher in Europe gets 20k euro per year. 800k baht lets say, an average teacher gets that much in 3.5 years in Thailand. The pensions attached to this job in Europe outweigh thailand massively. The social obligations faced in Europe are gargantuan, Thailand much less so. So the I would rather debate where and and what to spend than start the discussion from the point of view that raising say the govt debt to 50% of GDP would be beneficial and doable or not, not that it puts Thailand anywhere remotely close to the situation in Greece or EU. The situations are literally continents apart.

[metisdead]

A profanity post has been removed as well as a nonsense troll post.