Democrats Deny Claims They Backed Arson Attack In Songkhla

[webfact]

Democrats deny claims they backed arson attack

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The Democrat Party has rejected claims by red-shirt leaders that local MPs supported the burning of a red-shirt pavilion in Songkhla.

The Army chief also asked the reds to be careful not to stir up conflict in the far South.

Democrat Party spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut said Democrats were not involved with the incident and asked red shirts to stop provocative activity in southern provinces.

"Our party does not use fire to solve problems. The red shirts have to know that they aren't the only ones who can use violence. Locals who disagree with them can also fight for their rights," Chavanond said. "So we ask the red shirts stop any activity that causes disharmony."

Prominent red-shirt Korkaew Pikulthong alleged some Songkhla MPs were party to a movement against the reds, although he had no evidence to confirm his claims.

"We have no evidence of the arson because it was dark and too dangerous to go out at the time of the incident. But we believe someone big in the area doesn't want the red shirts to set up an anti-drug and anti-coup village," Korkaew said.

Hours before the pavilion was burnt down, red-shirt leader Thida Thawornseth presided over an opening ceremony for a red-shirt village at the site late on Monday.

Democrat Songkhla MP Thaworn Senneam questioned yesterday whether the red shirts burned down the pavilion themselves to instigate a drama.

He said he did not acknowledge the incident was arson but had not discussed it with local people.

Thaworn was accused of joining a gathering of people on Monday opposed to the latest red-shirt village, but he denied this.

The MP did not answer when a reporter asked if he was in Jana district on Monday but said local people acted by themselves, as they did not want division. About 90 per cent of Songkhla people were Democrat Party members, he said.

Army Chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha also commented that setting up red-shirt villages in the three southernmost provinces was not appropriate because the area was wracked with unrest and very sensitive.

"The red shirts have to rethink about setting up red-shirt villages in three southernmost provinces. I ask everyone to prevent any kind of violence and care about the country first," Prayuth said.

However Deputy Prime Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit argued with General Prayuth's comment that the red-shirts' village was founded on the goodwill of the people to promote democracy.

"Red-shirt villages aren't set up to fight against the government but to protect the primary institution of the country. I don't think setting up of red-shirt villages in the far South is going to be a problem," Yongyuth said.

-- The Nation 2012-05-17

[OzMick]

Korkaew Pikulthong said it's too dangerous to go out at night in the area of a red shirt village. That I can agree with.

[nurofiend]

the whole idea of 'red shirt villages' only serves to cause division

[GentlemanJim]

the whole idea of 'red shirt villages' only serves to cause division

Agreed, and that is the whole idea of them.

[nurofiend]

the whole idea of 'red shirt villages' only serves to cause division

Agreed, and that is the whole idea of them.

I don't agree that it's the whole idea of them to cause division,

i meant the whole idea, as in the whole notion of them... as a figue of speech, not in a way to mean, the whole plan of 'red shirt villages' is only to cause division.

[whybother]

the whole idea of 'red shirt villages' only serves to cause division

Agreed, and that is the whole idea of them.

I don't agree that it's the whole idea of them to cause division,

i meant the whole idea, as in the whole notion of them... as a figue of speech, not in a way to mean, the whole plan of 'red shirt villages' is only to cause division.

True. The whole idea of them is to unite everyone ... under Thaksin.

Edited May 17, 2012 by whybother

[nurofiend]

the villages do cause a sense of division but i don't think that's the intention on all the red shirts part, but i would say it is for some, yes.

i certainly don't believe these villages are solely to provoke division and unrest, and i don't believe all the red shirts support these villages with negative intentions.

but overall, i do not think they can be perceived as being a positive step forward for the country

Edited May 17, 2012 by nurofiend

[Buchholz]

Prominent red-shirt Korkaew Pikulthong alleged some Songkhla MPs were party to a movement against the reds, although he had no evidence to confirm his claims.

"We have no evidence of the arson because it was dark and too dangerous to go out at the time of the incident. But we believe someone big in the area doesn't want the red shirts to set up an anti-drug and anti-coup village," Korkaew said.

I'd be interested in knowing if Korkaew's views on acceptance of "no evidence" as a sign of implied guilt will extend to own upcoming trial.

Difficult to imagine why failed Pheu Thai Party constituency MP and successful Pheu Thai Party-list MP and indicted Red Shirt Leader currently out on bail Korkaew would be interested in an amnesty absolving Red Shirts of their criminal acts.

[whybother]

It is alleged that Thida was seen in the area, so it could have been her that did it.

[phiphidon]

Korkaew Pikulthong said it's too dangerous to go out at night in the area of a red shirt village. That I can agree with.

Of course you have examples which you can share with us as to how dangerous it is - I shall look forward to those "tales".

[animatic]

It just goes to show how

PTP MPs will say anything that pops into their heads, if it is thought self-serving, no matter how lame, misguided, or just plain illogical.

Edited May 17, 2012 by animatic

[phiphidon]

Prominent red-shirt Korkaew Pikulthong alleged some Songkhla MPs were party to a movement against the reds, although he had no evidence to confirm his claims.

"We have no evidence of the arson because it was dark and too dangerous to go out at the time of the incident. But we believe someone big in the area doesn't want the red shirts to set up an anti-drug and anti-coup village," Korkaew said.

I'd be interested in knowing if Korkaew's views on acceptance of "no evidence" as a sign of implied guilt will extend to own upcoming trial.

Difficult to imagine why failed Pheu Thai Party constituency MP and successful Pheu Thai Party-list MP and indicted Red Shirt Leader currently out on bail Korkaew would be interested in an amnesty absolving Red Shirts of their criminal acts.

I'd be interested to know why you feel that a picture of Korkaew with your caption

"Difficult to imagine why failed Pheu Thai Party constituency MP and successful Pheu Thai Party-list MP and indicted Red Shirt Leader currently out on bail Korkaew would be interested in an amnesty absolving Red Shirts of their criminal acts."

or even "views on acceptance of "no evidence" as a sign of implied guilt will extend to own upcoming trial."

has anything whatsoever to do with Korkaews view about the burning down of the "structure" and who might be involved.

The scattergun approach I presume................

[animatic]

Prominent red-shirt Korkaew Pikulthong alleged some Songkhla MPs were party to a movement against the reds, although he had no evidence to confirm his claims.

"We have no evidence of the arson because it was dark and too dangerous to go out at the time of the incident. But we believe someone big in the area doesn't want the red shirts to set up an anti-drug and anti-coup village," Korkaew said.

I'd be interested in knowing if Korkaew's views on acceptance of "no evidence" as a sign of implied guilt will extend to own upcoming trial.

Difficult to imagine why failed Pheu Thai Party constituency MP and successful Pheu Thai Party-list MP and indicted Red Shirt Leader currently out on bail Korkaew would be interested in an amnesty absolving Red Shirts of their criminal acts.

I'd be interested to know why you feel that a picture of Korkaew with your caption

"Difficult to imagine why failed Pheu Thai Party constituency MP and successful Pheu Thai Party-list MP and indicted Red Shirt Leader currently out on bail Korkaew would be interested in an amnesty absolving Red Shirts of their criminal acts."

or even "views on acceptance of "no evidence" as a sign of implied guilt will extend to own upcoming trial."

has anything whatsoever to do with Korkaews view about the burning down of the "structure" and who might be involved.

The scattergun approach I presume................

It's clear the man will be backing a double standard between his accusations, lacking substance, and his trial which likely will have more substance tan he cares to admit.

[Buchholz]

Prominent red-shirt Korkaew Pikulthong alleged some Songkhla MPs were party to a movement against the reds, although he had no evidence to confirm his claims.

"We have no evidence of the arson because it was dark and too dangerous to go out at the time of the incident. But we believe someone big in the area doesn't want the red shirts to set up an anti-drug and anti-coup village," Korkaew said.

I'd be interested in knowing if Korkaew's views on acceptance of "no evidence" as a sign of implied guilt will extend to own upcoming trial.

Difficult to imagine why failed Pheu Thai Party constituency MP and successful Pheu Thai Party-list MP and indicted Red Shirt Leader currently out on bail Korkaew would be interested in an amnesty absolving Red Shirts of their criminal acts.

I'd be interested to know why you feel that a picture of Korkaew with your caption

"Difficult to imagine why failed Pheu Thai Party constituency MP and successful Pheu Thai Party-list MP and indicted Red Shirt Leader currently out on bail Korkaew would be interested in an amnesty absolving Red Shirts of their criminal acts."

or even "views on acceptance of "no evidence" as a sign of implied guilt will extend to own upcoming trial."

has anything whatsoever to do with Korkaews view about the burning down of the "structure" and who might be involved.

His "view" on burning down the structure actually consisted of making accusations directed at specific individuals based on what he bizarrely admits is "no evidence."

It's relevant to what his standards for determining guilt and making accusations as he faces severe accusations himself.

He's one of the main quotes of the OP. He has his own checkered past that impacts on what he says and puts what he says in context.

You're going to have to go and stalk some other posts of mine as this one isn't going anywhere.

Next?

.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Buchholz

[badgerbailey]

It just goes to show how

PTP MPs will say anything that pops into their heads, if it is thought self-serving, no matter how lame, misguided, or just plain illogical.

You don't think every MP in Thailand is the exact same? give or take 1 or 2.

[Moruya]

if anyone is truly in favour of democracy and reconciliation they would outlaw any red or other "villages"

They are divisive and intimidating and have no place in a true democracy

[hyperdimension]

There are some quite bizarre statements in this news article.

we believe someone big in the area doesn't want the red shirts to set up an anti-drug and anti-coup village," Korkaew said.

This is seriously flawed logic. Just because the Red Shirts claim to be anti-drug and anti-coup, it doesn't necessarily mean that being opposed to Red Shirts is not being anti-drug or anti-coup.

When did they start becoming "anti-drug" anyway? When they started to feel that being pro-"democracy" alone had become too cliched and meaningless?

However Deputy Prime Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit argued with General Prayuth's comment that the red-shirts' village was founded on the goodwill of the people to promote democracy.

What goodwill?

"Red-shirt villages aren't set up to fight against the government but to protect the primary institution of the country.

How do Red Shirt villages "protect the primary institution of the country"? Or is he referring to Thaksin and his clan? That would make sense if so.

I don't think setting up of red-shirt villages in the far South is going to be a problem," Yongyuth said.

What makes him so confident? Edited May 17, 2012 by hyperdimension

[steveromagnino]

I have it on good Authority it was FAKE anti red shirts, that burned down that stupid structure.

[FOODLOVER]

I have it on good Authority it was FAKE anti red shirts, that burned down that stupid structure.

So a red shirt?

[rubl]

the villages do cause a sense of division but i don't think that's the intention on all the red shirts part, but i would say it is for some, yes.

i certainly don't believe these villages are solely to provoke division and unrest, and i don't believe all the red shirts support these villages with negative intentions.

but overall, i do not think they can be perceived as being a positive step forward for the country

In other words, like you wrote before in this topic:

"the whole idea of 'red shirt villages' only serves to cause division"

[whybother]

I have it on good Authority it was FAKE anti red shirts, that burned down that stupid structure.

It only barely qualifies as a structure.

[nurofiend]

the villages do cause a sense of division but i don't think that's the intention on all the red shirts part, but i would say it is for some, yes.

i certainly don't believe these villages are solely to provoke division and unrest, and i don't believe all the red shirts support these villages with negative intentions.

but overall, i do not think they can be perceived as being a positive step forward for the country

In other words, like you wrote before in this topic:

"the whole idea of 'red shirt villages' only serves to cause division"

i think i've been pretty clear in my explanation of my phrasing, do i really need to do it again for you?

[GentlemanJim]

Lets face reality here!

The reason the poor, in the red shirt villages are being persuaded by their head men to be red shirt villages is that they are told if they become red shirt villages they will get money to improve roads, schooling, infrastructure etc that has been so long overdue they are desperate (just like being told all kids will get ipads!!!) . This whole thing is a shameful exhibition of how the elite are controlling the poor, but in this case the elite are not the Dems, they are the Shiniwatras. It is a shameful example of the exploitation of the poor....the majority voters in Thailand!

[OzMick]

Korkaew Pikulthong said it's too dangerous to go out at night in the area of a red shirt village. That I can agree with.

Of course you have examples which you can share with us as to how dangerous it is - I shall look forward to those "tales".

Why would I need examples to agree with a concept put forward by someone much more knowledgable on a subject?

Do you spend all day looking for minor irritations to get overexcited over? You're like an ADD kid who has skipped his meds and got a bottle of red cordial down his neck.

[OzMick]

the villages do cause a sense of division but i don't think that's the intention on all the red shirts part, but i would say it is for some, yes.

i certainly don't believe these villages are solely to provoke division and unrest, and i don't believe all the red shirts support these villages with negative intentions.

but overall, i do not think they can be perceived as being a positive step forward for the country

I have to agree with you, if PPD doesn't mind.

[OzMick]

Prominent red-shirt Korkaew Pikulthong alleged some Songkhla MPs were party to a movement against the reds, although he had no evidence to confirm his claims.

"We have no evidence of the arson because it was dark and too dangerous to go out at the time of the incident. But we believe someone big in the area doesn't want the red shirts to set up an anti-drug and anti-coup village," Korkaew said.

I'd be interested in knowing if Korkaew's views on acceptance of "no evidence" as a sign of implied guilt will extend to own upcoming trial.

Difficult to imagine why failed Pheu Thai Party constituency MP and successful Pheu Thai Party-list MP and indicted Red Shirt Leader currently out on bail Korkaew would be interested in an amnesty absolving Red Shirts of their criminal acts.

A red shirts formal outfit - socks with his flip-flops.

[hyperdimension]

The reason the poor, in the red shirt villages are being persuaded by their head men to be red shirt villages is that they are told if they become red shirt villages they will get money to improve roads, schooling, infrastructure etc

Yes, as I discussed in another thread:

The reason some people wanted it to become a red shirt village is explained in this paragraph I copied out of the article.

"However, just 50 meters down the road, at a house lined with Red flags and whose walls are decorated with a photo collage of a Red Shirt rally, a group of Red villagers have more to say. Sanong Chaiyatha, easily the most outspoken Red Shirt in the village, considers the Wang Taw concession to be totally inadequate. She had wanted to found the Red Village in Non Reuang as a way to receive donations from the movement’s considerable largesse in order to fix the village’s crumbling roads and renovate the elementary school’s dilapidated bathroom. Now that the Red Village proposal has been decisively quashed, her village will have greater difficulty finding funds from the Red Shirt movement."

She is thinking that the red shirts are going to give them what they want. She dosen't understand that civic improvements is not on the red shirt agenda.

So she wanted her village to become a Red Shirt village just because of money. I think similarly there are many people who are Red Shirts just because of money; all the cries for "democracy" and "justice" are irrelevant to them. Those cries aren't genuine anyway as long as Thaksin and his clan continues to fund the Red Shirts, as for them it's about money too as well as power. To wealthy tyrants, money and power are part of a perpetual feedback loop - power opens up opportunities to obtain money via corruption, and disbursement of money to various people who matter buys their support which help to strengthen and consolidate power.

Improving infrastructure should be the responsibility of government, not the Red Shirt movement.

So there is evidence now that the UDD hands out money to a village in exchange for the "Red Shirt village" label and possibly also power and control over the village. Money buys power and control. Village leaders probably find it difficult to reject the generous offers, as they would probably get to keep some of it for themselves. So this could be how Red Shirt villages have spread like a disease across the country. It's all about money.

[OzMick]

Improving infrastructure should be the responsibility of government, not the Red Shirt movement.

So there is evidence now that the UDD hands out money to a village in exchange for the "Red Shirt village" label and possibly also power and control over the village. Money buys power and control. Village leaders probably find it difficult to reject the generous offers, as they would probably get to keep some of it for themselves. So this could be how Red Shirt villages have spread like a disease across the country. It's all about money.

But what is the source of this money? Three things come to mind - Thaksin, some government slush fund syphoning off taxpayer's funds, or possibly parking fees from the airport. Still no word why this concession worth a billion baht or more is in the hands of a pack of thugs, and how that came to be.

[Buchholz]

Improving infrastructure should be the responsibility of government, not the Red Shirt movement.

Perhaps they are acting in the capacity of a benevolent humanitarian effort to improve village life as an outside-the-government agency, like the Red Cross.

*facetiousness alert*

.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Buchholz

[hyperdimension]

Improving infrastructure should be the responsibility of government, not the Red Shirt movement.

So there is evidence now that the UDD hands out money to a village in exchange for the "Red Shirt village" label and possibly also power and control over the village. Money buys power and control. Village leaders probably find it difficult to reject the generous offers, as they would probably get to keep some of it for themselves. So this could be how Red Shirt villages have spread like a disease across the country. It's all about money.

But what is the source of this money? Three things come to mind - Thaksin, some government slush fund syphoning off taxpayer's funds, or possibly parking fees from the airport. Still no word why this concession worth a billion baht or more is in the hands of a pack of thugs, and how that came to be.

The second possibility would be the most worrying. If Thaksin could get away with spending taxpayers' money for his and his clan's own benefit, he would do it. e.g. massive compensation / reward payments to dead peoples' families using taxpayers' money, when it really should come from his own pocket.