Sex Tourism To Thailand And Indonesia Driving Rise In HIV Cases

[BookMan]

HIV, My girlfriend work’s in various Hospital labs around Buriram testing blood one small town south of Nang Rong with a population of 12000 according to Wikipedia. She had 128 HIV hospital outpatients being tested and receiving treatment and drugs every month some would travel back from Pattaya every month. She told me that many are tested and don’t want to tell anyone and she never see’s them again, so the figure maybe more than double that. They do not have to tell anyone that they have HIV there is no law to punish them that if they infect someone deliberately. I think that in reality we should be talking about 2%+ without a doubt. We have here the same attitude to HIV as driving and many other activities, it’s up to me! I have lived here 7 years and every day I know less than the day before how the Thai mind works.

A bit sad really... many a a dark side to the bargirls of Issan.

Does the hospital have to report the results to anyone when they are HIV positive?

[IAMHERE]

I just didn't realize these guys had to come to Thailand to get gay sex. I'd always thought gays do their thing with each others for free and without much regard for looks. What do I know, nothing much it would seem. The Dr. wasn't saying hetero P2P sex caused the increase in HIV among gays in Qyeensland, but it seems to come across that way when he says most of the new cases were gays and they caught it in Thailand/PNG.

[smedly]

I honestly think these figures need careful consideration, I see a lot of people quoting percentages per head of population etc etc

(and I know many that come here on holiday and refuse to use condoms - they think HIV is too hard to get so don't worry about it)

1. If you break down the population into risk groups or bands then sex workers will count for a much higer percentage than 1% or whatever, so in places where falangs frequent for sex their exposure could be very high indeed.

2. HIV has no symptoms, you cannot tell if someone has it without a test

3. There are many that have it and don't know - both Thai and falang - who are merrily spreading HIV unaware because they refuse to use protection or get tested

In my opinion the figure quoted of 1% per head of population is meaningless right or wrong

Iif you consider those in the high risk band of the population (wsex workers) and those that have HIV and don't know then I would guess the figure is more like 10% or higher for this group and spreading - food for thought and just my opinion only

Edited May 21, 2012 by smedly

[ding]

Baloney.

Unsafe sex spreads HIV.

[geriatrickid]

Really, what kind of moron does not use a condom with a one off or paid for sex partner?

Many....happens all the time.

and a lot do not learn to stay away from bargirls, deserve everything they get.

I used to think like that, then I read some of the case files. There are a few in there that are heartbreaking. Don't be so harsh.

[geriatrickid]

can assure you that if 100 workers were randomly rounded up at the Bangla bars, or Paradise bars in Patong, 10-30 of the subjects would test positive (depending upon the tourist season). Now if I rounded up 100 people at random on the Mahidol campus, I would be surprised to find 1 that tested HIV+. It's all about where one casts his net for romance.

You can assure? I put it to you that you do not know what you're talking about here.

There are some bars in the foreigner oriented nightlife areas that really do carry out STD and HIV testing of their girls. Yes, some girls test positive for HIV. There are some, but they are amazingly few and far between. I am not talking here about girls going to a dodgy clinic to get a certificate when no test was carried out, but real tests at quality facilities.

Saying that 10 - 30% if women in Patong are HIV+ either means that Phuket is a magnet for HIV...or this is just plain wrong.

I suggest you work on your reading comprehension skills as I stated 100 workers. I did not refer to the sex of these workers.

Let's deal with actual facts shall we? There are approximately 6000 or so registered sex workers on Phuket. Of these workers, only 10% or so are registered for the regular 3 month HIV screening. How many unregistered sex workers are there? Do you think these unregistered sex workers are screened? Now look at the entire subject pool and the percentage of sex workers being tested on a regular basis. What is the percentage of the workers being tested in the combined subject pool? It doesn't take a genius to realize that it will most likely be well below 5%. Are you even aware that Approximately half the sex trade workers have their activity based in Kathu, which includes Patong?

Oh, and before you say I do not know what I am talking about, I am citing the 2011 Chief Medical Officer's report from Phuket's Public Health Service. That report also cites that it found in this year's survey that condom usage for fermale sex workers was less than 60%.

Do the math. Can you extrapolate? Do you want to go through a basic quantitative mathematical analysis with me? This type of modeling differs from the wet shirt model type of activity one sees in Pattaya. The estimation of HIV+ subjects is influenced by a concentration of high risk subjects in a specific area. Let me dumb it down for you. If I have 100 fish and I put them in a barrel, I am more likely to catch a fish if I put my hand in the barrel, than if I tried to do the same thing in the ocean. Get it now?

I am referencing bonafide research results and you have referenced what source?

[geriatrickid]

HIV, My girlfriend work’s in various Hospital labs around Buriram testing blood one small town south of Nang Rong with a population of 12000 according to Wikipedia. She had 128 HIV hospital outpatients being tested and receiving treatment and drugs every month some would travel back from Pattaya every month. She told me that many are tested and don’t want to tell anyone and she never see’s them again, so the figure maybe more than double that. They do not have to tell anyone that they have HIV there is no law to punish them that if they infect someone deliberately. I think that in reality we should be talking about 2%+ without a doubt. We have here the same attitude to HIV as driving and many other activities, it’s up to me! I have lived here 7 years and every day I know less than the day before how the Thai mind works.

A bit sad really... many a a dark side to the bargirls of Issan.

Does the hospital have to report the results to anyone when they are HIV positive?

Excellent question. The answer is YES. Unfortunately, that is not what happens.

The law is set out under the National Communicable Disease Surveillance Sytem. Currently 80 or so "conditions" are reportable. They range from high priority Dengue and TB to the mundane such as occupational health events such as poisoning. Unfortunately, there is a deficiency. Private health clinics are not reporting. The data is collected from public health facilities such as public hospitals, the military (conscripts entry medicals) public research activity etc. All the information is supposed to be sent to the Bureau of Epidemiology. It's an administrative nightmare because many of the reports are still sent in by snail mail or email and the data then has to be keyed in. (Thailand's health system does not have a common data information system where hospitals can just key in the info at the source.)

There is a priority reporting system for several target diseases. These include, TB, Dengue, HIV, Diarrhea (which is deadly in pediatric and elderly patients). Within this reporting system, HIV has its own sub reporting system and a specific database. (My personal opinion is that certain illnesses get priority since foreign funding necessitates having a better data pool. A cynical view, but I think it is justified.)

Now here is where another problem starts. There is no requirement to report asymptomatic infections associated with HIV. My understanding is that the numbers of cases were so high that they crashed the system. I believe that decision was made to keep the HIV+ patient indication, but to make an estimate that any given HIV+ would have X number of associated infections. Sort of like knowing that the typical human has 10 fingers and toes. Made sense when one took into account budget and personnel constraints. The downside is that one never has an exact indication of how many HIV patients have health issues such as high lipids, or skin diseases etc.. It has an impact on the overall cost of the disease since the associated illnesses can cost more than the actual HIV treatment.

[kkup]

Yep wear a condom always! i have had a few second chances and been through sleepless nights waiting for results and wondering what if.. i wont go down that path again. I know some ppl are saints, don't abuse alcohol and/or never taken recreational drugs and couldn't even imagine making a stupid mistake like that... But not all of us are perfect and we do make mistakes.... I've been there (it took more than once to learn the lesson), wondering why I was such a stupid toss bag, thank god I was lucky enough to not be infected.. I feel for any newcomers/slow learners who come to Thailand and have a messy night out and now have to pay for the rest of their lives. It's a shitty disease and to be honest i think its a good thing bringing it to ppl's attention regardless of the accuracy of numbers. If it makes someone think about the possible consequences and suit up next time then it can only be a good thing. Yes I'm a moron!

[chops]

From later in the article -

"I would want to get that message out again about safe sex - I don't know how much young men are aware that Thailand is the HIV capital of the world," Dr Kidd said.

Southern African countries have 20-30% of the population infected and Thailand has less than 1%, and most of them infected more than 10 years ago and the number of new cases are relatively small.

Never understood how you could get 20-30% of your population with aids. That is pretty messed up. Are they all doing the 'down low thing'(ebonic term)? Just wondering.

[chops]

Yep wear a condom always! i have had a few second chances and been through sleepless nights waiting for results and wondering what if.. i wont go down that path again. I know some ppl are saints, don't abuse alcohol and/or never taken recreational drugs and couldn't even imagine making a stupid mistake like that... But not all of us are perfect and we do make mistakes.... I've been there (it took more than once to learn the lesson), wondering why I was such a stupid toss bag, thank god I was lucky enough to not be infected.. I feel for any newcomers/slow learners who come to Thailand and have a messy night out and now have to pay for the rest of their lives. It's a shitty disease and to be honest i think its a good thing bringing it to ppl's attention regardless of the accuracy of numbers. If it makes someone think about the possible consequences and suit up next time then it can only be a good thing. Yes I'm a moron!

I've stopped mongering since I've moved here. I do go out to bars but not for sex. Just for a drink and some fun.

Gone bareback a few too many times with the ladies here in SE Asia which scared me into stopping.

[manarak]

everyone should read up on the subject before making false statements.

here is a collection of links:

HIV - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV

Misconceptions about HIV

http://en.wikipedia....ut_HIV_and_AIDS

Thailand HIV - Country situation analysis http://www.unaids.or...a/ASITHA_en.pdf

Thailand HIV - 2010 Country Progress Report http://www.unaids.or...s_report_en.pdf

Thailand HIV - epidemiological fact sheet http://158.232.15.29...n&pdfoption=epi

Thailand HIV - 2012 Country Progress Report http://www.unaids.or...e_Report[1].pdf

I'd like to extend that collection of links with any additional source of hard facts/statistical information you may have, about HIV in general or in Thailand in particular.

Thank you.

P.S.

about the debate on infection rates, I'd like to direct your attention to the statistics pertaining to the different provinces.

Thai provinces not known for western sex tourism have among the highest infection rates especially among freelancers, so it can be inferred that the infection rates for freelancers and venues catering to the Thai clients (or cambodian, burmese...) are much higher than the rates among sex workers catering to foreigners.

Let's not forget 90% (probably more) of the Thai sex trade takes place between Thais.

Edited May 21, 2012 by manarak

[spidermike007]

Thank you. There is so much fear mongering going on with the Thailand HIV thing, that it gets old after a while. I suspected a lot of the numbers are ill informed. Appreciate the clarity. Yes, if the man was American, he was on a moral high horse. 90% of Americans are.

There is no fear mongering as you put it. The trends reported on are what they are. Every year Thai military conscripts have their medicals and every year the numbers show that HIV remains present in a population group that should not have such a high incidence.

What does the author's nationality have to do with the sad fact that sex tourists contract STIs? Are you aware that there was a pike in syphilis cases reported in Germany a few years ago? It was traced back to sex tourists. Does this mean that the public health officials that were caught off guard by the syphilis cases were on a high moral horse?

BTW, instead of cursing the USA, you and all the other American bashers ought to get down on your frigging knees and give thanks. The majority of Thailand's funding for public health research and for HIV/malaria/TB initiatives comes from US organizations. Whether it is the Bill & Melinda Gates or the William Jefferson Clinton Foundations or the US CDC/NIH/Military it is US sourced. The Chinese and Russians don't contribute anything. And no I am not an American.

Indeed GK it is often forgotten that the majority of charitable, philanthropic or research organization active in the world are US based and the quietly go about their work trying to improve peoples lives. Good post! And no I am not American either.

Well I am an American. I am not referring to well intentioned NGO's, or charities like the Gates Foundation, who are doing tremendous work. I am referring to the false righteousness that some American people proclaim. And I was not referring to STD's in general. Only to the fear mongering surrounding HIV.

[endure]

I don't think his mission is to keep people away from Thailand - I think its more likely he wants to prevent people from catching HIV and if he has to lie or be creative with the truth to accomplish that, then good.

How much attention will people pay once it's found out that he's telling lies? Crying wolf I believe they call it.

[manarak]

Some excellent material on HIV/AIDS in Thailand here:

http://www.avert.org...m#contentTable0

The key issue is that having had a very successful campaign re HIV/AIDS in the 1990's the focus from government has slipped and so has public awareness. Organizations such as Avert fear that a second wave of HIV could hit Thailand unless the public (especially young people) are alerted to the potential threat of unprotected sex.

Key statistics:

Thailand Statistics³⁰ Estimated total population, end 2011³¹ 66,720,153 Estimated number of people living with HIV, end 2009 530,000 Adults aged 15 and over living with HIV, end 2009 520,000 Women aged 15 and over living with HIV, end 2009 210,000 Estimated adult (15-49) HIV prevalence, end 2009 1.3% Estimated number of AIDS deaths in 2009 28,000

• The majority of Thailand’s HIV infections occur through heterosexual sex.³²
  
• HIV prevalence among pregnant women, which reached a peak of 3.4% in 1992, had fallen to under 1% by 2009.³³
  

"Not all sex is sold in commercial sex establishments. Although it is difficult to monitor free lance sex workers (part time sex workers who solicit sex in public places or restaurants and bars), signs are that HIV prevalence is increasing within this group and among male sex workers in general. According to one study conducted by the government in Bangkok in 2007, HIV prevalence among freelance sex workers in Bangkok was 19 percent whereas HIV prevalence had declined to 4.3 percent in CSEs in that year.

⁵⁹

The percentage of sex workers who have had an HIV test and know there results has declined; whereas around half of sex workers surveyed had been tested in the past 12 months in 2007, this had dropped to around a third in 2009".⁶⁰

I don't agree that the material is excellent - it is very vague and doesn't give a clear picture to the reader about infection rates among sex workers, which is the core of the debate.

[gand]

The only safe sex, is self abuse, in this crazy world.

[PoodMaiDai]

A lot of denial in this thread.

But this is nothing. Wait until the coming EXPLOSION of HIV, thanks to the Africans, Indians, and Arabs who are now pouring into Thailand. Thailand isn't going to know what hit it in a few years. Count on it.

[surangw]

When I was a wee lad, my granny's advice may be what is needed now to prevent the spread of stds .

"sit down and keep your mouth shut"

[manarak]

A lot of denial in this thread.

But this is nothing. Wait until the coming EXPLOSION of HIV, thanks to the Africans, Indians, and Arabs who are now pouring into Thailand. Thailand isn't going to know what hit it in a few years. Count on it.

This could really have an influence.

On the other hand, the prevention campaign would be really easy in this case...

[QED]

Some time ago I was told that the chances of a man being infected with HIV from a woman during vaginal intercourse was 1%, but the chances of a woman being infected by a man who is carrying the disease during vaginal intercourse is 100%, when you have a man in a sexual relationship with another man the chances of infection if one of the partners is carrying the disease jump, I'm not sure of the figures but I'm sure someone would be, so the use of a condom is highly recommended, when I was in the navy my mother always said to me "be good, but if you can't be good be careful".

So a woman has 100% 'chance' if she has sex with an infected man unless he has sex with other men, in which case the chances jump. In other words, more than 100%!!

It doesnt need Einstein to work out something is wrong there.

Rubbish statistics and reporting are the problem here. One poster stated that between 10 and 30% of bar girls in Patong would test HIV+. A more accurate range would be between 0 and 100%. Unless you test the entire group there WILL be a margin of error but so many 'experts' extrapolate their statistics from unrealistic samples and expect the world to believe them. Example: The increase in infections in Queensland and WA is due to the mining boom. Most infections involve gay men. Therefore most mining workers must be gay!!!

Lying about the problem, for whatever reason, is not helpful and may even be counter-productive as truthful reports could be ignored in the filtering process.

There *is* still a problem but nowadays it is more likely to be governments wishing to increase the wealth of the rich at the expense of the health of the poor.

I can confirm this as true, as I work with a load of Aussie miners in Indonesia a few times a year.

[OzMick]

Some time ago I was told that the chances of a man being infected with HIV from a woman during vaginal intercourse was 1%, but the chances of a woman being infected by a man who is carrying the disease during vaginal intercourse is 100%, when you have a man in a sexual relationship with another man the chances of infection if one of the partners is carrying the disease jump, I'm not sure of the figures but I'm sure someone would be, so the use of a condom is highly recommended, when I was in the navy my mother always said to me "be good, but if you can't be good be careful".

So a woman has 100% 'chance' if she has sex with an infected man unless he has sex with other men, in which case the chances jump. In other words, more than 100%!!

It doesnt need Einstein to work out something is wrong there.

Rubbish statistics and reporting are the problem here. One poster stated that between 10 and 30% of bar girls in Patong would test HIV+. A more accurate range would be between 0 and 100%. Unless you test the entire group there WILL be a margin of error but so many 'experts' extrapolate their statistics from unrealistic samples and expect the world to believe them. Example: The increase in infections in Queensland and WA is due to the mining boom. Most infections involve gay men. Therefore most mining workers must be gay!!!

Lying about the problem, for whatever reason, is not helpful and may even be counter-productive as truthful reports could be ignored in the filtering process.

There *is* still a problem but nowadays it is more likely to be governments wishing to increase the wealth of the rich at the expense of the health of the poor.

I can confirm this as true, as I work with a load of Aussie miners in Indonesia a few times a year.

You are confirming that most Aussie miners are gay? Are you referring to black hole or open cut miners?

[noitom]

Thailand is innocent! This is a preposterous notion. No one comes back to Queensland with Aids acquired from unprotected sex in Thailand.

Thailand denies the allegations and resents the allegator.

[Orac]

A lot of denial in this thread.

But this is nothing. Wait until the coming EXPLOSION of HIV, thanks to the Africans, Indians, and Arabs who are now pouring into Thailand. Thailand isn't going to know what hit it in a few years. Count on it.

This could really have an influence.

On the other hand, the prevention campaign would be really easy in this case...

I suppose with Thailands visa reporting rules this could be fairly straightforward. A 'clean' AIDs test certificate presented on each arrival/report and automatic deportation for a fail though with Thailands record for corruption this could easy just turn in to a money making scheme.

The problem with any sort of profiling it is difficult where you draw the line, especially for a country has tourism as a major economic factor.

An education campaign would have an effect but the danger of identifying particular groups increase levels of racism and xenophobia already strongly present here.

There is also the question of if you should monitor or restrict high risk groups. Should there be a questionaire on arrival where you have to declare your sexual orientation so as to discourage homosexuals or bisexuals from entering - maybe a bit too easy to lie so maybe something more quantifiable such as any single males which would have the added advantage of identifying a lot of sex tourists as well.

But hang on, what about all those AIDs carrying african women plying their trade in lower Suk - better include single women as well.

Can't help but me reminded of Martin Niemoller's famous poem - Then they came for me.

All this still ignores the fact that the AIDs problem is mainly an internal one here and one of the key drivers is the domestic p4p market with, as you point out, high levels of infection in bordering areas.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Orac

[TommoPhysicist]

I suppose with Thailands visa reporting rules this could be fairly straightforward. A 'clean' AIDs test certificate presented on each arrival/report and automatic deportation for a fail though with Thailands record for corruption this could easy just turn in to a money making scheme.

I can see that being popular with families coming on holiday, no wait, no family would ever come on holiday to Thailand again.

Leaving just the sex tourists.

[oldthaihand99]

Some excellent material on HIV/AIDS in Thailand here:

http://www.avert.org...m#contentTable0

The key issue is that having had a very successful campaign re HIV/AIDS in the 1990's the focus from government has slipped and so has public awareness. Organizations such as Avert fear that a second wave of HIV could hit Thailand unless the public (especially young people) are alerted to the potential threat of unprotected sex.

Key statistics:

Thailand Statistics³⁰ Estimated total population, end 2011³¹ 66,720,153 Estimated number of people living with HIV, end 2009 530,000 Adults aged 15 and over living with HIV, end 2009 520,000 Women aged 15 and over living with HIV, end 2009 210,000 Estimated adult (15-49) HIV prevalence, end 2009 1.3% Estimated number of AIDS deaths in 2009 28,000

• The majority of Thailand’s HIV infections occur through heterosexual sex.³²
  
• HIV prevalence among pregnant women, which reached a peak of 3.4% in 1992, had fallen to under 1% by 2009.³³
  

"Not all sex is sold in commercial sex establishments. Although it is difficult to monitor free lance sex workers (part time sex workers who solicit sex in public places or restaurants and bars), signs are that HIV prevalence is increasing within this group and among male sex workers in general. According to one study conducted by the government in Bangkok in 2007, HIV prevalence among freelance sex workers in Bangkok was 19 percent whereas HIV prevalence had declined to 4.3 percent in CSEs in that year.

⁵⁹

The percentage of sex workers who have had an HIV test and know there results has declined; whereas around half of sex workers surveyed had been tested in the past 12 months in 2007, this had dropped to around a third in 2009".⁶⁰

Wow, 19% amongst freelance sex workers.

Use a condom. Why take a chance?

I think that the 19 % could be refering to male sex workers - the currently quoted figure for female sex workers is around 1.8 % according to the AIDS Response Progress Report 2012 though a condom should still be used!

Edit: correction - the 1.8 % only refers to "venue based" female sex workers rather than "freelance"

Actually the 19% refers to female sex workers (FSW), not MSW:

"Figure 25 Prevalence of HIV among FSWs in Thailand: 1989-2008"

http://www.unaids.org/en/dataanalysis/monitoringcountryprogress/progressreports/2010countries/thailand_2010_country_progress_report_en.pdf

According to the study, apparently referring to freelance [FL] female sex workers [FSW], in 2007 "HIV prevalence among non venue-based sex workers using RDS in Bangkok was 19%" [p.80]

[oldthaihand99]

Wow, 19% amongst freelance sex workers.

Use a condom. Why take a chance?

Either way, condom or not, there's always "a chance" having sex with SP's.

For insertive penile to vaginal intercourse:

1. Without a condom, maybe 1 in 50,000 chance each time.

2. Without a condom + circumcised, maybe 1 in 250,000 chance

3. With a condom + not circumcised, maybe 1 in 500,000 chance.

4. Without a condom + recently HIV (An/Ab) tested negative, maybe 1 in a million chance

5. Without a condom in a monogamous relationship with a "good TG", maybe 1 in 500,000 chance.

6. With a condom in a monogamous relationship with a "good TG", maybe 1 in 5 million chance.

7. Add recent HIV (An/Ab) testing to the above 2 & you're virtually like one who's immune to HIV

8. Wank off alone at home to porn, basicly no chance of HIV infection.

9. W/O condom + SP & client agree to not go without latex with anyone else, IOW BBFS monogamy, maybe a 1 in 250,000 chance.

10. Add recent negative HIV (An/Ab) testing to # 9 & it's maybe a 1 in 2 million chance.

Add anal sex, with & especially without a condom, to any of the above & risk goes way up.

Forgoe insertive genital intercourse & substitite HJ, CBJ, BBBJ, DATY, DFK, titty fuc_k, BLS, BBPS, anal licking, mutual masturbation, etc, instead & your safety level goes way up.

Edited May 22, 2012 by oldthaihand99

[smedly]

I support screening of everyone as it is those that don't know they have it are the greatest risk of spreading it, the WHO latest strategy is to test and treat as studies have shown that people on effective treatment are extremely unlikely to infect others

You cannot screen people coming through an airport as medical evidence can be falsified and you will also discourage people from getting tested and treated - completely useless and a huge step in the wrong direction

Until a whole population is tested there is no way to know the extent of the problem, take this thread as an example - how many people posting here have actually had a test - i'd be surprised if it was over 50% - how many of the total population in Thailand have been tested - I guess less than 20% - take a country like Africa where we know HIV to be at epidemic proportions the test rate there is probably more than 80% - that tells me something

[TomTao]

I support screening of everyone as it is those that don't know they have it are the greatest risk of spreading it, the WHO latest strategy is to test and treat as studies have shown that people on effective treatment are extremely unlikely to infect others

You cannot screen people coming through an airport as medical evidence can be falsified and you will also discourage people from getting tested and treated - completely useless and a huge step in the wrong direction

Until a whole population is tested there is no way to know the extent of the problem, take this thread as an example - how many people posting here have actually had a test - i'd be surprised if it was over 50% - how many of the total population in Thailand have been tested - I guess less than 20% - take a country like Africa where we know HIV to be at epidemic proportions the test rate there is probably more than 80% - that tells me something

As a regular blood donor I am screened every time I donate, so if I did do something that would put me at risk and I became infected I would find out pretty quick,

[QED]

Some time ago I was told that the chances of a man being infected with HIV from a woman during vaginal intercourse was 1%, but the chances of a woman being infected by a man who is carrying the disease during vaginal intercourse is 100%, when you have a man in a sexual relationship with another man the chances of infection if one of the partners is carrying the disease jump, I'm not sure of the figures but I'm sure someone would be, so the use of a condom is highly recommended, when I was in the navy my mother always said to me "be good, but if you can't be good be careful".

So a woman has 100% 'chance' if she has sex with an infected man unless he has sex with other men, in which case the chances jump. In other words, more than 100%!!

It doesnt need Einstein to work out something is wrong there.

Rubbish statistics and reporting are the problem here. One poster stated that between 10 and 30% of bar girls in Patong would test HIV+. A more accurate range would be between 0 and 100%. Unless you test the entire group there WILL be a margin of error but so many 'experts' extrapolate their statistics from unrealistic samples and expect the world to believe them. Example: The increase in infections in Queensland and WA is due to the mining boom. Most infections involve gay men. Therefore most mining workers must be gay!!!

Lying about the problem, for whatever reason, is not helpful and may even be counter-productive as truthful reports could be ignored in the filtering process.

There *is* still a problem but nowadays it is more likely to be governments wishing to increase the wealth of the rich at the expense of the health of the poor.

I can confirm this as true, as I work with a load of Aussie miners in Indonesia a few times a year.

You are confirming that most Aussie miners are gay? Are you referring to black hole or open cut miners?

Sorry, forgot the smiley

They all give me so much crap as the only Brit onsite whenever I go there, except when the Ashes are on of course....

[Chopperboy]

Now here is where another problem starts. There is no requirement to report asymptomatic infections associated with HIV. My understanding is that the numbers of cases were so high that they crashed the system. I believe that decision was made to keep the HIV+ patient indication, but to make an estimate that any given HIV+ would have X number of associated infections. Sort of like knowing that the typical human has 10 fingers and toes. Made sense when one took into account budget and personnel constraints. The downside is that one never has an exact indication of how many HIV patients have health issues such as high lipids, or skin diseases etc.. It has an impact on the overall cost of the disease since the associated illnesses can cost more than the actual HIV treatment.

Geriatrickid - thanks for posting

Explains one reason why Thai doctors treat the infection/s associated with HIV/ AIDS before sending the patient on their way - rather than suggest the patient undergoes an HIV test and starts treating the cause.

No doubt there are plenty of other Thai reasons but the end result is worse for both the patient and society.

Note: High lipids is associated with taking anti-HIV medication and can be the cause of co-morbidity (i.e. dying due to a heart disease)

Edited May 22, 2012 by Chopperboy

[manarak]

I support screening of everyone as it is those that don't know they have it are the greatest risk of spreading it, the WHO latest strategy is to test and treat as studies have shown that people on effective treatment are extremely unlikely to infect others

You cannot screen people coming through an airport as medical evidence can be falsified and you will also discourage people from getting tested and treated - completely useless and a huge step in the wrong direction

Until a whole population is tested there is no way to know the extent of the problem, take this thread as an example - how many people posting here have actually had a test - i'd be surprised if it was over 50% - how many of the total population in Thailand have been tested - I guess less than 20% - take a country like Africa where we know HIV to be at epidemic proportions the test rate there is probably more than 80% - that tells me something

there are over 50% of false positive results in HIV tests.