Concept 2 Rower Model D (Exercise For Fat Loss)

[tropo]

Hello to all my fellow Concept rowers out there. I thought I'd keep this thread alive with a very useful instruction video from Dark Horse Rowing.

 

 

 

[GarryP]

I believe my position is pretty good. My heels lift up a bit in the catch but I put that down to my long legs. Also getting callouses at the base of my middle, third and little fingers.

 

Didn't do much rowing last week as on holiday and busy with other unavoidable demands on my time. But back into it again. Definitely seen improvement over the nearly 2 months I have used my machine. Now focusing on 30 minute or 5 km sessions to burn fat. Once I have succeeded there, I will include more sprints and intervals. Subscribed to Dark Horse Rowing already.     

[tropo]

18 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I believe my position is pretty good. My heels lift up a bit in the catch but I put that down to my long legs. Also getting callouses at the base of my middle, third and little fingers.

 

Didn't do much rowing last week as on holiday and busy with other unavoidable demands on my time. But back into it again. Definitely seen improvement over the nearly 2 months I have used my machine. Now focusing on 30 minute or 5 km sessions to burn fat. Once I have succeeded there, I will include more sprints and intervals. Subscribed to Dark Horse Rowing already.     

 

Yes, the callouses LOL. Blisters first if you do a long hard row. I used to wear gloves, but now I row with bare hands. Barefoot is a good idea if you move too much at the feet as it teaches you to hold them as still as possible otherwise it's too uncomfortable.

[GarryP]

I have been trying to source a Concept 2 seat cover produced by Vapor Fitness but have been unable to find anyone who ships to Thailand. the postings on Amazon and eBay do not ship here and neither does the actual manufacturer/supplier (I inquired by email). Do any of you users have any suggestions? I would prefer to get this one than the one made by Hornet Watersports. 

 

PS since I have started using this machine my back pain troubles have disappeared and my stamina has also improved but fat around the middle seems to be a bit more stubborn.

[TaveewatLim]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

I have been trying to source a Concept 2 seat cover produced by Vapor Fitness but have been unable to find anyone who ships to Thailand. the postings on Amazon and eBay do not ship here and neither does the actual manufacturer/supplier (I inquired by email). Do any of you users have any suggestions? I would prefer to get this one than the one made by Hornet Watersports. 

 

PS since I have started using this machine my back pain troubles have disappeared and my stamina has also improved but fat around the middle seems to be a bit more stubborn.

I'd never use seat cover because my model B seat is made by pvc and softer than model d plastic seat.

I'd just back to row again from long rest period.My stamina was drop, I can't row longer than 5000 meter.? 

[GarryP]

7 minutes ago, TaveewatLim said:

I'd never use seat cover because my model B seat is made by pvc and softer than model d plastic seat.

I'd just back to row again from long rest period.My stamina was drop, I can't row longer than 5000 meter.? 

I am just up to 30 minutes. Averaging only about 6500 m. But the other day I did my first 10,000 m but at 500m intervals. I had to force myself to meet the target I set. 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

I have been trying to source a Concept 2 seat cover produced by Vapor Fitness but have been unable to find anyone who ships to Thailand. the postings on Amazon and eBay do not ship here and neither does the actual manufacturer/supplier (I inquired by email). Do any of you users have any suggestions? I would prefer to get this one than the one made by Hornet Watersports. 

 

PS since I have started using this machine my back pain troubles have disappeared and my stamina has also improved but fat around the middle seems to be a bit more stubborn.

 

I've never found the seat uncomfortable, even on long rows.

 

Why don't you buy the Seat Pad directly from Concept2. They ship stuff - I've had things sent from them a number of time (new log cards).

 

$3.50 plus postage:

 

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/accessories/seat-pad

 

 

 

 

[GarryP]

6 minutes ago, tropo said:

I've never found the seat uncomfortable, even on long rows.

 

Why don't you buy the Seat Pad directly from Concept2. They ship stuff - I've had things sent from them a number of time (new log cards).

 

$3.50 plus postage:

 

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/accessories/seat-pad

 

 

 

 

I have very little meat on my bum and the pad available on the Concept website seems a bit too thin. That will be my last choice. Actually, the discomfort has improved quite a bit but it is still something that needs addressing.

 

I am doing what I can to make rowing an enjoyable task rather than a chore. I have already invested in bluetooth earphones, and downloaded a fitness music app. With just that I seem to be able to go longer and at a better pace and enjoy myself at the same time. My target is to use the rower 5 days a week for a minimum of 30 minutes a day. Today (Monday) is my day of rest. 

[tropo]

33 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I have very little meat on my bum and the pad available on the Concept website seems a bit too thin. That will be my last choice. Actually, the discomfort has improved quite a bit but it is still something that needs addressing.

 

I am doing what I can to make rowing an enjoyable task rather than a chore. I have already invested in bluetooth earphones, and downloaded a fitness music app. With just that I seem to be able to go longer and at a better pace and enjoy myself at the same time. My target is to use the rower 5 days a week for a minimum of 30 minutes a day. Today (Monday) is my day of rest. 

 

How about padded bike pants?

[TaveewatLim]

45 minutes ago, tropo said:

How about padded bike pants?

Good idea. C2 pad is very thin , gel padded bike pants may be better.

[GarryP]

57 minutes ago, tropo said:

How about padded bike pants?

That's an idea. I even have a pair at hand. Thanks.

[tropo]

47 minutes ago, GarryP said:

That's an idea. I even have a pair at hand. Thanks.

The Concept2 seated pad looks good and it won't cost much to have it shipped. I don't see how a cover would offer more padding that that. If necessary, order 2 and double up. The best way to fix your problem could be to do full squats to build up the glute muscles. As people get older they stop doing squats due to knee issues and the glute muscles wither away from disuse.

[alfieconn]

Just done my 4th rowing workout after studying many dark horse video's but during the work out i seem to be feeling it a lot more on my back and arms than i do on my legs  and even on my lower back afterwards.

Taking into consideration my legs are not particularly strong i find this quite surprising so could it be that i am doing something wrong ?

[GarryP]

57 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

Just done my 4th rowing workout after studying many dark horse video's but during the work out i seem to be feeling it a lot more on my back and arms than i do on my legs  and even on my lower back afterwards.

Taking into consideration my legs are not particularly strong i find this quite surprising so could it be that i am doing something wrong ?

I watched not only the Dark Horse videos but also those on the concept2 website. I had a problem with lifting my heels too much such that I wasn't using all my foot when pushing in the drive phase. I resolved that by following one of the suggestions on Dark Horse and tide a belt around slide which prevents me from going too far forward and over lifting my heels. It has worked well and am getting more power in my drives.

 

Over to your problem. I can't remember even though it was only a few months ago that I started. I was just so tired after doing only a few minutes I never noticed which part of me was suffering the most. I think the issue is to focus on form and developing muscle memory first and once your form is down pat then focusing more on power, distance and burn. 

 

I have kept a record of all my workouts using Ergdata app and I can see a definite improvement, except for a dip when I first started with the belt around the slide.

[alfieconn]

21 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I watched not only the Dark Horse videos but also those on the concept2 website. I had a problem with lifting my heels too much such that I wasn't using all my foot when pushing in the drive phase. I resolved that by following one of the suggestions on Dark Horse and tide a belt around slide which prevents me from going too far forward and over lifting my heels. It has worked well and am getting more power in my drives.

 

Over to your problem. I can't remember even though it was only a few months ago that I started. I was just so tired after doing only a few minutes I never noticed which part of me was suffering the most. I think the issue is to focus on form and developing muscle memory first and once your form is down pat then focusing more on power, distance and burn. 

 

I have kept a record of all my workouts using Ergdata app and I can see a definite improvement, except for a dip when I first started with the belt around the slide.

i saw the vid with the belt so i am conscious about going too far forward on the recovery but from that i feel i am not driving enough with the legs.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, alfieconn said:

Just done my 4th rowing workout after studying many dark horse video's but during the work out i seem to be feeling it a lot more on my back and arms than i do on my legs  and even on my lower back afterwards.

Taking into consideration my legs are not particularly strong i find this quite surprising so could it be that i am doing something wrong ?

I've rowed on Concept2 machines since the 80's perhaps before "Dark Horse" was even born lol.

 

Although I agree with most of what he teaches, I don't agree that most of the force should be produced by the legs. He also says that very little force is produced from the arms - which I also disagree with. If you watch people row for records you'll notice that most of the force is produced from the upper body and lower back. The problem is that the legs can't possibly move as fast as the arms. I've seen people produce world records who hardly use their legs at all. That's brute force rowing, but proves my point.

 

I'm not saying don't use the legs optimally. To row efficiently you need to use the whole body optimally. Doing leg only rowing will help you recruit them more.

 

It was interesting that I made a comment on one of his YouTube videos about how in his demonstrations I see him and others lifting their heels, yet he teaches that they shouldn't lift at all. He didn't reply to my comment, even after 6 months.

 

If anything, I think Dark Horse overthinks technique and thereby confuses people. I had this problem trying to teach my wife, but had to back off as she couldn't enjoy rowing with me continually nagging about flaws in her technique. At the end of the day, most of us are not rowing to compete, but using it as an exercise to gain cardio fitness and burn calories. As long as you're not doing anything that will cause injuries, there's no point getting too technical.

 

Something else you may have noticed. Dark Horse and a lot of his training buddies have very long arms and legs. Some of the guys push the slide nearly to the end of the rail when their legs are extended. This type of physique would facilitate more leg drive due to a longer stroke distance and is the ultimate type of body for champion rowers. There will be a natural variation in how people row a we're not all built the same.

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by tropo

[GarryP]

13 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

i saw the vid with the belt so i am conscious about going too far forward on the recovery but from that i feel i am not driving enough with the legs.

Initially I felt the same. But after a while I was able to move the belt a bit further forward without lifting my heels too much and have now found what I believe is the ideal place for my physique (my heels lift a little but nowhere near as much as before and I can drive using all my foot, not just the ball of the foot area). As tropo mentions, when you watch videos of so called experts, nearly all of them lift their heels to some extent - so I am happy with my technique now even though there is some lift.

 

When I row I am using my upper body, arms and lower back more than my legs, in terms of the actual power exerted. But after 30 minutes I feel weaker in the legs than I do elsewhere. That does not seem to make sense, but it is how I feel.   

[tropo]

 "Perfection is the enemy of perfectly adequate"

 

It's food for thought when trying to learn the technique. Don't over think everything. What feels better often is better when you exercise.

 

 

[alfieconn]

12 hours ago, tropo said:

 "Perfection is the enemy of perfectly adequate"

 

It's food for thought when trying to learn the technique. Don't over think everything. What feels better often is better when you exercise.

 

 

I'll have to remind the wife of that one 

 

Anyway, thanks for your help guy's.

[GarryP]

I thought my performance was going downhill as I had been averaging about 6.5 kms per 30 minute workout but it went down to 6.2 to 6.3 in mid-late April. However, now that the temperature has cooled down a bit I am up to 6.7. I did not realize how much the heat impacted workouts indoors. 

 

I used to workout after work in the evening, but I wanted to relax after work, so have started working out in the early morning before work now.  It's cooler then too. 

 

 

[tropo]

10 hours ago, GarryP said:

I thought my performance was going downhill as I had been averaging about 6.5 kms per 30 minute workout but it went down to 6.2 to 6.3 in mid-late April. However, now that the temperature has cooled down a bit I am up to 6.7. I did not realize how much the heat impacted workouts indoors. 

 

I used to workout after work in the evening, but I wanted to relax after work, so have started working out in the early morning before work now.  It's cooler then too. 

 

 

 

Why don't you climate control your workout room? Of course, performance will decrease with heat. It makes a huge difference. Your body needs to maintain 37C, which is very difficult if the room temperature is above 30C. In my room right now it's over 30C, and that's at 4 am with all the windows open. and that's the coolest time of the day.

 

When did your room temperature cool down? It has been consistently the same in Pattaya for over a month, give or take a degree, which is not going to make much difference to performance.

 

I maintain a room temperature of 26C when rowing, with a fan blowing too.

[GarryP]

6 hours ago, tropo said:

Why don't you climate control your workout room? Of course, performance will decrease with heat. It makes a huge difference. Your body needs to maintain 37C, which is very difficult if the room temperature is above 30C. In my room right now it's over 30C, and that's at 4 am with all the windows open. and that's the coolest time of the day.

 

When did your room temperature cool down? It has been consistently the same in Pattaya for over a month, give or take a degree, which is not going to make much difference to performance.

 

I maintain a room temperature of 26C when rowing, with a fan blowing too.

I workout in my living room. It is not air-conditioned so I only use a fan. The room temperature is above 30C most days (March and April), but with me changing to working out in the morning I think I am catching it before the temp reaches 30. Before it was round about 32C when I did my workouts. I was just surprised at how different the levels of performance were. I knew there would be some difference but not so much. I googled for information on the impact of heat on working out but none of it seemed to point out such a big impact. Probably because the papers were not about people working out in the tropics. 

 

The rains came just over a week ago. Not frequent but enough to impact the temperature in Bangkok, or at least the area where I am living.   

[tropo]

I workout in my living room. It is not air-conditioned so I only use a fan. The room temperature is above 30C most days (March and April), but with me changing to working out in the morning I think I am catching it before the temp reaches 30. Before it was round about 32C when I did my workouts. I was just surprised at how different the levels of performance were. I knew there would be some difference but not so much. I googled for information on the impact of heat on working out but none of it seemed to point out such a big impact. Probably because the papers were not about people working out in the tropics. 
 
The rains came just over a week ago. Not frequent but enough to impact the temperature in Bangkok, or at least the area where I am living.   

Some stats I read on world temperatures had Khlong Toei in Bangkok as THE hottest place in Asia with the highest mean annual temp.

The difference heat makes is huge. If I was in your situation I would install air con. The only time I trained in plus 30 temps was years ago in Philippines and my workout performance was so poor I needn't have bothered. You train to improve your health and that's just not healthy apart from turning a training session into torture.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tropo]

3 hours ago, GarryP said:

 . Before it was round about 32C when I did my workouts. I was just surprised at how different the levels of performance were. I knew there would be some difference but not so much. 

1

Wait until you get it down to 25 - 26C for your workouts. You won't believe how much your performance will improve. In the cooler months, November - February, I exercise in the park. I monitor my performance with a heart rate monitor. As soon as the weather heats up my performance drops by a huge amount.

 

Bottom line - you'll exercise harder, get fitter and burn more calories at cooler temperatures... not to mention it will be far more pleasant, which means you'll be more likely to keep it up.

[TaveewatLim]

6 hours ago, GarryP said:

I workout in my living room. It is not air-conditioned so I only use a fan. The room temperature is above 30C most days (March and April), but with me changing to working out in the morning I think I am catching it before the temp reaches 30. Before it was round about 32C when I did my workouts. I was just surprised at how different the levels of performance were. I knew there would be some difference but not so much. I googled for information on the impact of heat on working out but none of it seemed to point out such a big impact. Probably because the papers were not about people working out in the tropics. 

 

The rains came just over a week ago. Not frequent but enough to impact the temperature in Bangkok, or at least the area where I am living.   

 I also workout in living room and workout in the morning. I use both aircon and fan to cool me down. Rowing without aircon is torture.

[TaveewatLim]

Wolverine's secret strength.

[tropo]

On 5/10/2017 at 10:23 PM, TaveewatLim said:

Wolverine's secret strength.

 

That's a very good time, but there's no way to check it's authenticity. i.e. Did he row it himself?  LOL.

[GarryP]

Well, I started off slowly in mid February only doing a few minutes each day then moved over to intervals and am now doing 30 minute sessions - with the odd interval set. My distances continued to improve  (with the exception of April when the heat wiped me out) and now I am just over 7,000 meters per 30 minute session. I am quite happy with where I am now and do not think I will improve much on this. My main target was to lose a few kgs and improve my fitness levels. At first it did not seem to be working as far as weight was concerned, but as my performance has improved, the weight has started to come off - not much so far but then my target was only 4 or 5 kgs (I am down 2.5 now).  At 7kms it really burns the calories. If it is to be believed I burned 450 cals in my 30 minute session this morning. I try to row 5 days a week. 

 

Since I started rowing I have had no trouble with my back at all. Hopefully, that is a thing of the past.

 

PS No longer any bum pain at all. So will not bother buying padding after all.     

[TaveewatLim]

21 hours ago, GarryP said:

Well, I started off slowly in mid February only doing a few minutes each day then moved over to intervals and am now doing 30 minute sessions - with the odd interval set. My distances continued to improve  (with the exception of April when the heat wiped me out) and now I am just over 7,000 meters per 30 minute session. I am quite happy with where I am now and do not think I will improve much on this. My main target was to lose a few kgs and improve my fitness levels. At first it did not seem to be working as far as weight was concerned, but as my performance has improved, the weight has started to come off - not much so far but then my target was only 4 or 5 kgs (I am down 2.5 now).  At 7kms it really burns the calories. If it is to be believed I burned 450 cals in my 30 minute session this morning. I try to row 5 days a week. 

 

Since I started rowing I have had no trouble with my back at all. Hopefully, that is a thing of the past.

 

PS No longer any bum pain at all. So will not bother buying padding after all.     

My performance is decrease from 7500 in 30 minutes to about 7200 ?.

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, TaveewatLim said:

My performance is decrease from 7500 in 30 minutes to about 7200 ?.

Still better than me. But then I am a bit older.   I don't think I will ever get up to 7500.