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[Bangkok2012]

Hi all,

My partner just been offered a job in Bangkok which is great as we always wanted to move to Bangkok.

The salary is large enough for me not having to work – but not large enough for us to maintain the same life stil as we have here in Europe and when we normally stay in Thailand.

This puts us in a dilemma, on one site we would love to move Bangkok and hope I can find a job or some other way of generating additional income, but on the other site it seems easier to stay with our well paid jobs in Europe ( which means give up our dream of living in Thailand).

I work in the financial sector as a middle/frontoffice market risk analyst, I hold a master degree in finance and have 5+ years of experience.

This leads to the question; how are the job opportunities in the financial sector in Bangkok for expats? I can see on Bkkpost, DBjobs etc. that there are a lot of postings for jobs in the sector, but I wonder if any of the postings are directed at expats at all.

[yoshiwara]

Would your partner have been prepared to drop his career if you had received the offer?

[Bangkok2012]

Yes, that wouldn't be a problem, we both see our "careers" only as a way of being able to realize some of our dreams. So our only attachment to our job is the capital income. Our concern with moving to Bkk is the possible lack of income or lower living standard with only one income.

[yoshiwara]

IMHO don't do it unless there is a clear positive career path for both of you. If you want to move from Europe then a better option is to move to Hong Kong or Singapore, where the opportunities will be greater. Hong Kong more interesting and you can still take occasional trips to Thailand.

[ThailandInvestmentGuide]

I would tend to agree with Yoshiwara on this, especially as it sounds like you are in the early-mid stage of your career/s.

You note also the issue of whether the ads are directed to expats. An irritating habit of not - in most cases - specifying whether expats can apply and/or what degree of Thai language skill is required. So ppl then send an email to check and rarely will they get a response. But generally there are very few jobs open to foreigners in the finance sector. If you have strong Thai language skills and appropriate license/s (the courses needed to obtain the licenses are only provided in Thai), then your situation is improved somewhat.

[Superdude]

As quoted before, the knowledge of your Thai skills will be a determining factor to achieve a job in finance here.

Anyway good luck and never give up hope

[Soutpeel]

I would tend to agree with Yoshiwara on this, especially as it sounds like you are in the early-mid stage of your career/s.

You note also the issue of whether the ads are directed to expats. An irritating habit of not - in most cases - specifying whether expats can apply and/or what degree of Thai language skill is required. So ppl then send an email to check and rarely will they get a response. But generally there are very few jobs open to foreigners in the finance sector. If you have strong Thai language skills and appropriate license/s (the courses needed to obtain the licenses are only provided in Thai), then your situation is improved somewhat.

Allow me to add this comment....

If job advertisements were being placed in a UK, US or Austrialian local newspaper....who would we be assume these job where targeted at ?....Expats, illegal immigrants or citizens/PR of the UK, US or Aussieland ? so why should Thailand be any different in this regard, why should all ad's state whether an expat can apply,

in fact where an expat is required it does actually say so in the English language newspapers in Thailand... ....is this another case I am a Farang in Thailand and i demand to be treated differently.. ?

[samran]

I take a slightly different view on this, only because you are coming over as a skilled 'other half'. If you were coming over by yourself, but with no job, then I'd advise forget it.

From what I've noticed, skilled spouses are generally looked upon favourably. You might not stay in the same industry, but there are enough (small) but enough firms around who might be willing to have a chat, and specialised recruitment firms such as Opus, who might be willing to speak to you. Getting a job might take a while, but in the mean time, you can generally volunteer etc if that suits. Plenty of NGO's in BKK as well.

Salary won't be at the EU level, but if you are reasonably skilled they won't be 'bad' anyway, especially if your husband is on a reasonable deal to make up for your loss. Meaning, you will be in Thailand on the same family household income (or close) with arguably a slightly lower cost of liviing (depending on how you want to structure things - Thailand can be more expensive than the west if you want it to be.

It all comes down to how you together want to live the next phase of your life together.

[ThailandInvestmentGuide]

If job advertisements were being placed in a UK, US or Austrialian local newspaper....who would we be assume these job where targeted at ?....Expats, illegal immigrants or citizens/PR of the UK, US or Aussieland ? so why should Thailand be any different in this regard, why should all ad's state whether an expat can apply.

If the ads were placed in Thai language publications I would agree with you. But we are talking about ads in English-language papers mainly read by expats. Ads that also often stipulate high level English-language skills. In this situation one might reasonably assume - unless stipulated otherwise - that applications would be welcomed from expats. Companies that place such ads & who won't consider expats - but don't state "Thai nationals only" - are just being thoughtless and slack.

in fact where an expat is required it does actually say so in the English language newspapers in Thailand... ....is this another case I am a Farang in Thailand and i demand to be treated differently.. ?

In fact, where only expats are wanted for a role then advertisers do tend to say so. Generally though it is 'hit and miss' - sometimes advertisers say "expats welcome to apply", sometimes "thai nationals only", often nothing stated at all.

No, it's a case of expecting professionals seeking professionals to conduct themselves in a professional manner

Edited May 24, 2012 by ThailandInvestmentGuide

[steveromagnino]

I would echo Samran's comments, plenty of work here for expats in the finance sector, salary might be a bit 'off' vs. full expat packages but not so bad in cost of living terms. interesting work as well, your skills will leave you in a good position here as things happen a little slower and more basic here.

There is a big BUT.

The BUT is you are jumping off a potential esclator fast track to the big life in finance to come to a relative backwater; yes there are plenty of good finance jobs here but it is not a mecca like Singapore, Hong Kong, London, etc; from a resume perspective that may prove problematic at a later point.

Your masters degree is a major door opener here, and while you may start on perhaps a fair to middling wage, there is no reason why you could not earn relatively big money within 3-4 years, however that depends on how well you fit in here and so forth, same as anywhere.

For what it is worth, i do not think hardly anyone I know or have hired in the past came from jobsdb, classified ads in the newspaper etc; the quality and huge quantity of applicants makes hiring that way a bit crazy; we are about to advertise for staff but only because it makes our search via the headhunters a bit more legitimate and there is alwyays the hope of getting a decent applicant (which in 10 years still has happened only a couple of times). Headhunters and recruitment agencies are a better place to go, they will find a job for you more likely if you look good on paper; most of the jobs aren't advertised at a management senior level anyhow unless required (wanted Hot body PM lady with connected family to run middle income developing country. Should be easy on the eyes, past experience in real estate or telcoms a bonus. No fatties)

Edited May 24, 2012 by steveromagnino

[steveromagnino]

I would add that jobsdb and so forth generally proves to be a very poor way to hire management level people so many HR companies flick ads on those free sites because it is free and so they seem to be seen to be doing their jobs. Which as most people know, is usually not the case (I have had the pleasure of laying off an entire HR dept twice in my life, and in neither case did it affect the company at all).

Headhunters and recruiters are a better way to go, and may go in to bat for you more than spending week after week clicking on online sites. BKK Post we are about to launch an ad campaign hiring, but it isn't expected we will necessarily get good staff from it, although we live in enternal hope. Again, agencies seem to be the easiest for multinationals and foreigner centric companies (who may already have expats in their staff).

[Bangkok2012]

Hi all,

I truly appreciate all your comments. The most ideal would of because be if I could find a job with the full expat package to – but there isn’t many advertised on the global banks webpages. So I think I will use Steveromagnino’s advice and try submitting my resume to headhunters and recruitment agencies. Luckily my partner doesn’t have to give the final commitment to the job until end june so we still have some time to decide what to do.

If job advertisements were being placed in a UK, US or Austrialian local newspaper....who would we be assume these job where targeted at ?....Expats, illegal immigrants or citizens/PR of the UK, US or Aussieland ? so why should Thailand be any different in this regard, why should all ad's state whether an expat can apply,

I think you look at this the wrong way - Of cause you would normally assume a job advertisement in a newspaper in an English speaking country were directed at people being able to speak English and most important being able to work in the country. The only thing is – Thailand isn’t an English speaking country – so let me put it another way. If you saw an English add in a French or German newspaper/website – wouldn’t you assume the advertisers were looking for someone who’s speaking English?

[steveromagnino]

Bangkok Post is widely read by Thais so often for the job classifieds there is no intention at all to hire an expat, it is aimed at Thais who speak english at a certain level. 99% of the jobs they have no interest in hiring someone with no work permit/VISA etc they just expect an english speaking Thai (and there are many english speaking Thais in Bangkok).

Also, to further confuse things, sometimes the ads in BKP are given free when advertisers advertise in the sister publication Post Today (and same occurs with Nation/Krungthep Turakij) so the ad ends up running even though the target is even more clearly Thai.

[samran]

Hi all,

I truly appreciate all your comments. The most ideal would of because be if I could find a job with the full expat package to – but there isn’t many advertised on the global banks webpages. So I think I will use Steveromagnino’s advice and try submitting my resume to headhunters and recruitment agencies. Luckily my partner doesn’t have to give the final commitment to the job until end june so we still have some time to decide what to do.

It is going to be a bit of a catch 22. People are more likely to speak to you and genuninely think about you when you are on the ground and they know you are serious. Also, the better jobs come - naturally - after you've done a bit of networking.

Might be a bit of a leap of faith that you take.

Another option is to see if your husbands co will offer you a job when you are there.

[Soutpeel]

Hi all,

I truly appreciate all your comments. The most ideal would of because be if I could find a job with the full expat package to – but there isn’t many advertised on the global banks webpages. So I think I will use Steveromagnino’s advice and try submitting my resume to headhunters and recruitment agencies. Luckily my partner doesn’t have to give the final commitment to the job until end june so we still have some time to decide what to do.

If job advertisements were being placed in a UK, US or Austrialian local newspaper....who would we be assume these job where targeted at ?....Expats, illegal immigrants or citizens/PR of the UK, US or Aussieland ? so why should Thailand be any different in this regard, why should all ad's state whether an expat can apply,

I think you look at this the wrong way - Of cause you would normally assume a job advertisement in a newspaper in an English speaking country were directed at people being able to speak English and most important being able to work in the country. The only thing is – Thailand isn’t an English speaking country – so let me put it another way. If you saw an English add in a French or German newspaper/website – wouldn’t you assume the advertisers were looking for someone who’s speaking English?

Just because someone speaks English,or the job requires english speaking this doesnt mean they are targeting expats....I work with great numbers of Thai nationals who read the English language newspapers everyday, along with the Thai newspapers...so I think you are looking at it the wrong way.....if you actually took the time to read the classifed in the English language newspapers...Where there are job ad's which require an expat they actually say so in the ad...

As regards your example....The ad means most likely they want a French or German national who speaks English....it doesnt mean they want someone who is a non-national who speaks English...you are really confused

[Soutpeel]

Bangkok Post is widely read by Thais so often for the job classifieds there is no intention at all to hire an expat, it is aimed at Thais who speak english at a certain level. 99% of the jobs they have no interest in hiring someone with no work permit/VISA etc they just expect an english speaking Thai (and there are many english speaking Thais in Bangkok).

Also, to further confuse things, sometimes the ads in BKP are given free when advertisers advertise in the sister publication Post Today (and same occurs with Nation/Krungthep Turakij) so the ad ends up running even though the target is even more clearly Thai.

100% correct...

[kblaze]

Finance industry here is very small and thus everyone knows everyone. My job came about more through connections than anything else.

What I am saying is that you will have opportunities for employment through your partner. Once he/she branches out and makes a little name for him/herself then it is quite possible for your partner to recommmend you for positions as they become available. Most people I know in my department (equity rsrch) got their job because they knew someone at the right time. You have the ed/exp, now just need to meet the right people. Of course not all got their jobs in finance through networking, I'm just passing on my personal experience to you,

good luck.

[fletchsmile]

I would echo Samran's comments, plenty of work here for expats in the finance sector, salary might be a bit 'off' vs. full expat packages but not so bad in cost of living terms. interesting work as well, your skills will leave you in a good position here as things happen a little slower and more basic here.

There is a big BUT.

The BUT is you are jumping off a potential esclator fast track to the big life in finance to come to a relative backwater; yes there are plenty of good finance jobs here but it is not a mecca like Singapore, Hong Kong, London, etc; from a resume perspective that may prove problematic at a later point.

Your masters degree is a major door opener here, and while you may start on perhaps a fair to middling wage, there is no reason why you could not earn relatively big money within 3-4 years, however that depends on how well you fit in here and so forth, same as anywhere.

For what it is worth, i do not think hardly anyone I know or have hired in the past came from jobsdb, classified ads in the newspaper etc; the quality and huge quantity of applicants makes hiring that way a bit crazy; we are about to advertise for staff but only because it makes our search via the headhunters a bit more legitimate and there is alwyays the hope of getting a decent applicant (which in 10 years still has happened only a couple of times). Headhunters and recruitment agencies are a better place to go, they will find a job for you more likely if you look good on paper; most of the jobs aren't advertised at a management senior level anyhow unless required (wanted Hot body PM lady with connected family to run middle income developing country. Should be easy on the eyes, past experience in real estate or telcoms a bonus. No fatties)

Having spent a fair few years in the financial sector myself I would disagree that there are "plenty of work here for expats in the finance sector", and I don't think that was what Samran was saying. It's particularly difficult in OP's field where they are in "middle/ front office market risk analyst" and for someone with about "5+ years of experience". The following factors contribute to this

- Banks and financial institutions have additional limitations imposed on them by the central regulators as to the number of foreigners they can employ over and above the usual for non-financial institution companies, and if say a bank they need to get additional approval from Bank of Thailand in additional to all the other labour/ immigration stuff, and justify why an expat needs to be hired instead of a local

- Expats employed in middle office/ risk roles are normally at a more senior level than just 5 years experience.

- In the case of the foreign banks such as HSBC, StanChart, Deutsche, they will also have centralised these functions in hubs such as Singapore and HK + shared service centres in places like India.

- There will be a local presence (reduced by centralisation), but again the trend has been to localize positions and prefer local Thais, overseen by perhaps a Chief Risk Officer who may may an expat, but heads the function at a more senior level

I think the more accurate quote from Samran was"

"You might not stay in the same industry, but there are enough (small) but enough firms around who might be willing to have a chat, and specialised recruitment firms such as Opus, who might be willing to speak to you. Getting a job might take a while, but in the mean time, you can generally volunteer etc if that suits. Plenty of NGO's in BKK as well.

Finance roles outside banking and financial institutions are a little easier to come by although again the preference is usually for local at OP's level. So an open mind, and being prepared to use skill sets in a different industry is key.

To OP, I'd say if one of you is on a good package, you probably won't need to take the drop in standard of living you are envisaging. It's easier here to get by on one good salary than in the west. Quality of life is also easily enhanced by maids, drivers etc which come cheap

BTW As you can probably get by very nicely on one expat package take time to just enjoy the experience of living in Thailand and don't worry too much about finding work. Nice to have if you can get it, but then again Thailand is often a difficult place to work and actually achieve things, and can be nicer to just live a sabai sabai life and enjoy the cultural experience without the deliverables

Edited May 24, 2012 by fletchsmile

[yoshiwara]

Yes, that wouldn't be a problem, we both see our "careers" only as a way of being able to realize some of our dreams. So our only attachment to our job is the capital income. Our concern with moving to Bkk is the possible lack of income or lower living standard with only one income.

At the moment you have 2 independent well-paid careers. You have a degree of equality in the relationship. If you break your career you will be travelling with your partner as his appendage, his subordinate. In all social gatherings he will be the one with something interesting to say. You will be talking about the price of milk from the 7-11. Think it won't happen?

[Misty]

Hi Bangkok2012,

Not entirely sure what you mean by a front office market risk analyst - would this be quantative research? You might be able to find a paid position with an international asset management or institutional level brokerage house that produces English level research and that's looking for skills such as yours. Alternatively, you might be able to start with an internship to get your foot in the door, and then spin that into a paid position later down the road.

Consider contacting the CFA Society of Thailand for potential leads. Also check out the SEC's website for listings of firms (for institutional/English start with international names you know):

http://capital.sec.o..._id=225〈=en List of asset managers -

http://capital.sec.o..._id=139〈=en List of brokers

Cheers, Misty

[Misty]

Looks like the links above didn't come through - If you're interested, PM me and I'll send them to you.