Sorry Seems To Be The Hardest Word.

[robblok]

One of the reasons i left my first Thai wife was that i did not get any respect at all. You have to learn to stand up for yourself or accept it. But you are nr one and you should choose for yourself.

If they are happy to take your money but not listen to you then its really time to go. I make sure i am in control of situations. I now get what i want when i want it. Does not mean i never compromise but i have set limits for myself about what i can accept and what not. If you are constantly backing down the other party will walk all over you.

Many guys just cant walk away because they have invested too much into the relation (money and time). But just think of it is it all worth it ? You can always start over. Sure later they try to come back but then its too late.

Also try to find a girl that thinks like you do not one that only looks good.

[edwinclapham]

Quietman, you probably need space to think deeply about your relationship. 10 years is a long time in a marriage where there is little or no respect, it could just be the "jolt" that your wife needs.

I dont buy into this "loss of face" all the time, its a phrase bandied about too often and when it starts to affect your own self esteem, then its time to think about your own "loss of face" and take the bull by the horns.

A relationship involving different cultures usually requires more understanding but if you as a family cannot show a "united front" then you have nothing imo.

It is so damned unhealthy when the pendulum swings in favour of the Thai who wields the stick!

I hope you do what is right for you!

Eddie

[pnustedt]

If you want 9 rai of land cleared why don't you just clear it or get it cleared yourself? I'm pretty sure that if I went to my wife every time I wanted something done I would have the same problems, especially if she didn't really want to do it.

With regards the child you are bringing up - seems you need to decide that he is your son too and not just hers.

[thequietman]

OP............instead of coming on here and talking about this.........surely you should sit you wife down and tell her what you have been expressing to us....

All I will get is the famous stare of silence. guys with thai wifes or girlfriends will know what I am referring to.

[bendix]

If you want 9 rai of land cleared why don't you just clear it or get it cleared yourself? I'm pretty sure that if I went to my wife every time I wanted something done I would have the same problems, especially if she didn't really want to do it.

With regards the child you are bringing up - seems you need to decide that he is your son too and not just hers.

It's not his land. It's her land.

That the OP has unilaterally decided to support his wife and her son is his decision. It doesn't automatically follow that he can just assume the right to do what he wants with her land - without her consent - as a quid pro quo.

Edited June 2, 2012 by bendix

[geriatrickid]

Just read the point that it is her land. I retract what I was writing.

It's her land. One must respect that.

Edited June 2, 2012 by geriatrickid

[thequietman]

How you have described your wife and the situation is my wife and situation exactly and I know of many more like us.

Over the years I’ve just learned to accept the situation for what it is, because there are only two alternatives, either lump it or leave as nothing will change and there is no chance of her becoming a fully supportive, caring, sharing charmer over night, or forever in fact, it`s just not going to happen.

The best way to deal with it is do what I do and that is to just do your own thing and let the wife dwell in her own little world in her own way. But strangely our relationship does work and we are both quite happy in our own ways.

Many years back in the dark ages, I had hopes of marrying a girl, with intelligence, ambition, hopes and of strong character, but somehow I ended up with the opposite. It could be that at first they come across as being so cute, lovely, and vulnerable, than later once you are left with having to take most of the responsibility for everything and do all the thinking, the cute, lovely and vulnerable transpires into a heap of frustration. Yes, I know how you feel, but it`s not so bad.

I have an idea; perhaps we should trade places for a month just to see if we are better off or worse off than anyone else?

PM me a picture of your wife. I will think about it.

[edwinclapham]

OP............instead of coming on here and talking about this.........surely you should sit you wife down and tell her what you have been expressing to us....

All I will get is the famous stare of silence. guys with thai wifes or girlfriends will know what I am referring to.

Yes Quietman, my Thai wife knows full well that "the stare of silence" is a hiding to nowhere. Communicate with me or you get nothing.!

I will never be dominated and I am not a mug!

@ Geriatrickid... well all of this "my house" "my land" "my country" is so so unhealthy . "Ours" is much more savoury to me!

[bendix]

For some..."sorry" really is an impossibility.

I pity such people. Mostly.

I'm struggling to understand why people think the lady in question has to say sorry for using land she owns in anyway she wants, without being forced into another use simply because a farang voluntarily decided to support her and her son.

[pnustedt]

It's not his land. It's her land.

The op does seem to be assuming that the land is also his. He refers to "We give the land to locals" and "my wife doesn't want locals who use our land to lose face" (my emphasis). Whilst I understand Thai law about freehold property it does appear that this land is part of the family assets and he therefore has the same rights and responsibilities as she has regarding it.

[edwinclapham]

For some..."sorry" really is an impossibility.

I pity such people. Mostly.

I'm struggling to understand why people think the lady in question has to say sorry for using land she owns in anyway she wants, without being forced into another use simply because a farang voluntarily decided to support her and her son.

The way I read it , it was because the "farang, as you put it) has some foresight and would like to make provisions for their son's university fees in 7 years time!

Quite commendable in my books!

[bendix]

For some..."sorry" really is an impossibility.

I pity such people. Mostly.

I'm struggling to understand why people think the lady in question has to say sorry for using land she owns in anyway she wants, without being forced into another use simply because a farang voluntarily decided to support her and her son.

The way I read it , it was because the "farang, as you put it) has some foresight and would like to make provisions for their son's university fees in 7 years time!

Quite commendable in my books!

Quite commendable from our western ethno-centric viewpoint, yes.

Less commendable or sensible in that it is trying to overlay those views and objectives on a Thai wife who doesnt share them, in Thailand, surrounded by Thai sensibilities.

What makes us think our way is the best way? She obviously has some very strong socio-cultural reasons for resisting the OP's plans. Her reasons are likely as strongly entrenched as his commendable reasons are. But as the land legally belongs to her, she can be forgiven for being stubbon, irrespective of whether the OP thinks the land is their joint resource.

[bendix]

It's not his land. It's her land.

The op does seem to be assuming that the land is also his. He refers to "We give the land to locals" and "my wife doesn't want locals who use our land to lose face" (my emphasis). Whilst I understand Thai law about freehold property it does appear that this land is part of the family assets and he therefore has the same rights and responsibilities as she has regarding it.

I understand your point, but the OP simply using the phrase We and Our reflects only his perception of the situation, not her perception or - frankly - the legal position.

[robblok]

It's not his land. It's her land.

The op does seem to be assuming that the land is also his. He refers to "We give the land to locals" and "my wife doesn't want locals who use our land to lose face" (my emphasis). Whilst I understand Thai law about freehold property it does appear that this land is part of the family assets and he therefore has the same rights and responsibilities as she has regarding it.

I understand your point, but the OP simply using the phrase We and Our reflects only his perception of the situation, not her perception or - frankly - the legal position.

I am also talking about our house though i know that legally i have no rights at all. But the wife never makes an issue about this we are a unit. We both pay for the house, if anything i have paid a lot more. When we do things we do so after considering both sides of the argument and then do what i want . Jokes aside we just don't make it an issue, she knows it will be hard to keep paying the mortgage on the house if i stop with her and i know i don't have a leg to stand on legally.

If in a relation you contribute but aren't seen for full then its time to get out. I know my value and i know i can get enough other sensible girls if i wanted too. No need to stay with one that does not respect me or value my input. Done it once got abused never again.

[thequietman]

For some..."sorry" really is an impossibility.

I pity such people. Mostly.

I'm struggling to understand why people think the lady in question has to say sorry for using land she owns in anyway she wants, without being forced into another use simply because a farang voluntarily decided to support her and her son.

The way I read it , it was because the "farang, as you put it) has some foresight and would like to make provisions for their son's university fees in 7 years time!

Quite commendable in my books!

yes, this is the one and only reason. Rather prepare now for his future, she will expect me to shell out the money in 7 years time. I have told her numerous times that I must have 400,000 baht in the bank in order to stay here. It doesnt seem to register with her at all. Many thais are not aware of the hoops we must jump through just to stay here.

I bought her the ground and as such it is both our ground. Not legally I know but decisions on its use should be up to both of us as a unit. All I want to do is to use it to generate funds for the sons university. What is wrong with that ? If it comes to it, I will walk away from everything. I dont care if half the house is legally mine, I dont want it.

[bendix]

I take your point about 'our house' rob, but I would suggest a house that is bought and shared as a home is slightly different to a piece of land - which is presumably separate from their shared home - and which presumably she acquired before she married the OP. I'm obviously just guessing at that, but my experience is that those Thai wives who own land have received it from family inheritances etc. That's certainly the case in my marriage, and I would never dream of telling her what to do with it. She similarly would never dream of telling me what to do with the savings and assets I acquired before I met her.

Edit: Just read thequietman's comment that he bought the land for her. I agree and accept that that somewhat changes the situation significantly, and I empathise with his position more.

Edited June 2, 2012 by bendix

[edwinclapham]

For some..."sorry" really is an impossibility.

I pity such people. Mostly.

I'm struggling to understand why people think the lady in question has to say sorry for using land she owns in anyway she wants, without being forced into another use simply because a farang voluntarily decided to support her and her son.

The way I read it , it was because the "farang, as you put it) has some foresight and would like to make provisions for their son's university fees in 7 years time!

Quite commendable in my books!

yes, this is the one and only reason. Rather prepare now for his future, she will expect me to shell out the money in 7 years time. I have told her numerous times that I must have 400,000 baht in the bank in order to stay here. It doesnt seem to register with her at all. Many thais are not aware of the hoops we must jump through just to stay here.

I bought her the ground and as such it is both our ground. Not legally I know but decisions on its use should be up to both of us as a unit. All I want to do is to use it to generate funds for the sons university. What is wrong with that ? If it comes to it, I will walk away from everything. I dont care if half the house is legally mine, I dont want it.

I see the total logic in this!

Yes I do realise the hoops one must jump through to satisfy Immigration every year monetary wise. My father also has to follow the same path and its a pain in the back side.

Yes it should be joint decisions... you Quietman are just the contributory Lodger and to be honest it would be cheaper to be the Lodger .... at least with the latter you are in charge of your own decisions and not accountable to anyone!

When someone strips you of your "self worth" what are you left with?

Probably time to remove the doormat sign off your back and move on...

Edited June 2, 2012 by edwinclapham

[robblok]

I take your point about 'our house' rob, but I would suggest a house that is bought and shared as a home is slightly different to a piece of land - which is presumably separate from their shared home - and which presumably she acquired before she married the OP. I'm obviously just guessing at that, but my experience is that those Thai wives who own land have received it from family inheritances etc. That's certainly the case in my marriage, and I would never dream of telling her what to do with it. She similarly would never dream of telling me what to do with the savings and assets I acquired before I met her.

Edit: Just read thequietman's comment that he bought the land for her. I agree and accept that that somewhat changes the situation significantly, and I empathise with his position more.

Bendix, i share your view of before the edit. If it was hers to start with then its her choice ect. Same situation here, the wife would not touch my assets and i wont touch hers. But things bought mutual are different.

Anyway i'm happy i got a sensible lady now, though she works a bit too much at times for my taste. Though when she is not working too long it isn't good either. Balancing things is always hard.

I just respond a bit more fierce in topics like this because i have been one of those guys that was walked over and used as a doormat. I was a younger and stupid and too good for my own good. I never felt better once i took the power back.

[trainman34014]

All this is very sad for the quietman who has difficult decisions to make, and I hope it all works out well for him.

One thing is for sure; women can be difficult creatures to understand and get along with no matter where they come from. I suffered a marriage in England in which to me everything was ' we, ours and us' but to my wife it was all 'I, me and mine', wherever she went or whoever she spoke to, including right in front of me. I learned hard and expensive lessons from that marriage which I used in my selection process to meet my Thai wife. So far, after four and a half years we seem to have a solid relationship based on fairly equal footings but I never lower my guard where her family is concerned. We live a fair distance from them and all requests for 'loans' etc have been repelled. However; there is always constant family pressure on Thai women, sometimes in quite subtle ways, and my wife tells me about such things to take pressure off of herself and show me that she values me over them. We discuss everything and it takes a lot of pressure off her shoulders. I do tend to think that a lot of Thai women keep this problem to themselves and do not discuss things enough with their Farang partners, which eventually leads to problems in relationships. Thai families constantly nag women married to Farang and make wild demands on them, even telling them if they can't get what the family wants they should get another, richer Farang. They care nothing for a loving, caring relationship if there is no 'profit' in it. Sounds sad and outrageous to us but it's true and it's happening every day.

[edwinclapham]

I take your point about 'our house' rob, but I would suggest a house that is bought and shared as a home is slightly different to a piece of land - which is presumably separate from their shared home - and which presumably she acquired before she married the OP. I'm obviously just guessing at that, but my experience is that those Thai wives who own land have received it from family inheritances etc. That's certainly the case in my marriage, and I would never dream of telling her what to do with it. She similarly would never dream of telling me what to do with the savings and assets I acquired before I met her.

Edit: Just read thequietman's comment that he bought the land for her. I agree and accept that that somewhat changes the situation significantly, and I empathise with his position more.

Bendix, i share your view of before the edit. If it was hers to start with then its her choice ect. Same situation here, the wife would not touch my assets and i wont touch hers. But things bought mutual are different.

Anyway i'm happy i got a sensible lady now, though she works a bit too much at times for my taste. Though when she is not working too long it isn't good either. Balancing things is always hard.

I just respond a bit more fierce in topics like this because i have been one of those guys that was walked over and used as a doormat. I was a younger and stupid and too good for my own good. I never felt better once i took the power back.

Exactly right!

[pnustedt]

yes, this is the one and only reason. Rather prepare now for his future, she will expect me to shell out the money in 7 years time. I have told her numerous times that I must have 400,000 baht in the bank in order to stay here. It doesnt seem to register with her at all. Many thais are not aware of the hoops we must jump through just to stay here.

I bought her the ground and as such it is both our ground. Not legally I know but decisions on its use should be up to both of us as a unit. All I want to do is to use it to generate funds for the sons university. What is wrong with that ? If it comes to it, I will walk away from everything. I dont care if half the house is legally mine, I dont want it.

It is a common misconception that you have no legal rights over land purchased in your spouses' name. During divorce proceedings in a Thai family court the value of family assets, which will include the value of land registered in your spouses name, will normally be totted up and divided equally between the two parties. Do not just walk away.

[nocturn]

For some..."sorry" really is an impossibility.

I pity such people. Mostly.

I'm struggling to understand why people think the lady in question has to say sorry for using land she owns in anyway she wants, without being forced into another use simply because a farang voluntarily decided to support her and her son.

i think the point is more the lack of willingness to communicate rather than the land ownership. More to the point i think he wants out and is seeking justification.

Voluntary is a key term here. His support may well be voluntary, just as she can voluntarily accept the conditions under which his support is offered or voluntarily bear the consequences when that support is withdrawn.

Either way, he is unhappy and should deal with it.

edit: just read he bought her the land -- so if he does bail he has left her better than he found her.

it amazes me that people find themselves in these situations.

Edited June 2, 2012 by nocturn

[edwinclapham]

All this is very sad for the quietman who has difficult decisions to make, and I hope it all works out well for him.

One thing is for sure; women can be difficult creatures to understand and get along with no matter where they come from. I suffered a marriage in England in which to me everything was ' we, ours and us' but to my wife it was all 'I, me and mine', wherever she went or whoever she spoke to, including right in front of me. I learned hard and expensive lessons from that marriage which I used in my selection process to meet my Thai wife. So far, after four and a half years we seem to have a solid relationship based on fairly equal footings but I never lower my guard where her family is concerned. We live a fair distance from them and all requests for 'loans' etc have been repelled. However; there is always constant family pressure on Thai women, sometimes in quite subtle ways, and my wife tells me about such things to take pressure off of herself and show me that she values me over them. We discuss everything and it takes a lot of pressure off her shoulders. I do tend to think that a lot of Thai women keep this problem to themselves and do not discuss things enough with their Farang partners, which eventually leads to problems in relationships. Thai families constantly nag women married to Farang and make wild demands on them, even telling them if they can't get what the family wants they should get another, richer Farang. They care nothing for a loving, caring relationship if there is no 'profit' in it. Sounds sad and outrageous to us but it's true and it's happening every day.

Much of what you say is true.. I see this with other Western/Thai relationships here in Australia. The demands from Thailand come fast and furious and it appears to be that many a western man is subjected to working all the hours god sends to satisfy these demands, as well as coughing up for gambling debts and prolific expenditure.

My wife has laid out the rules to her family, there are to be no expectations of money/ gifts etc to anyone. We have our own children/lives to take care of and the answer is always a very firm NO if a demand comes in

We do however pay for the airfares/ expenses etc to come out and visit, not because we have to but we are happy to do so.. a huge difference.

[farang000999]

That is the same way it is with my wife and her family. We don't pay for anything except we always end up paying for something. Just like you don't pay for anything, except airfare, lol. Once you marry a woman with poor relatives, you will end up paying one way or another. I promise. But you can take solace in the fact that Thais without a farang will also be paying. If you truly do not want to ever pay for anything, I suggest marrying someone from a wealthy background, like the other 95% of Thai Visa,

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Once you marry a woman with poor relatives, you will end up paying one way or another. I promise. But you can take solace in the fact that Thais without a farang will also be paying. If you truly do not want to ever pay for anything, I suggest marrying someone from a wealthy background, like the other 95% of Thai Visa,

As long as you are fair in what allowance and/or assets you buy for your SO, it's completely fair to simply say no to any further requests for assistance.

To say it's inevitable that you'll be "forced" to pay more is absolute <deleted>, you just have to be ready to walk away when the value each of you are putting into the relationship gets out of balance.

Of course if you choose to say yes that's your decision and be happy with it, no regrets. And if you say no and her family members die, live with those consequences too. But nothing is inevitable, to me the key is clear communications and consistency.

And being the one who isn't afraid to walk away, that's the real key.

[billd766]

How you have described your wife and the situation is my wife and situation exactly and I know of many more like us.

Over the years I’ve just learned to accept the situation for what it is, because there are only two alternatives, either lump it or leave as nothing will change and there is no chance of her becoming a fully supportive, caring, sharing charmer over night, or forever in fact, it`s just not going to happen.

The best way to deal with it is do what I do and that is to just do your own thing and let the wife dwell in her own little world in her own way. But strangely our relationship does work and we are both quite happy in our own ways.

Many years back in the dark ages, I had hopes of marrying a girl, with intelligence, ambition, hopes and of strong character, but somehow I ended up with the opposite. It could be that at first they come across as being so cute, lovely, and vulnerable, than later once you are left with having to take most of the responsibility for everything and do all the thinking, the cute, lovely and vulnerable transpires into a heap of frustration. Yes, I know how you feel, but it`s not so bad.

I have an idea; perhaps we should trade places for a month just to see if we are better off or worse off than anyone else?

PM me a picture of your wife. I will think about it.

I could get into this.

I have been on at my wife for 2 or 3 years to plough the land outside of the fence then move the pineapple plantation out there and use the pineapple land for planting man saparang.

At least the excuses change every year.

Would you like a picture of my wife when I met her 19 years ago or as she is now?

Also is your wife a good cook?

Edited June 2, 2012 by billd766

[Kilgore Trout]

Quietman, I am extremely sad to hear this, and feel your anguish!

May I ask who would take care of your wife and son in your absence? Has she any idea of your input into the family life, or is it taken for granted?

I think very much for granted. Its like the same old thing you hear on here, provide the money and shut the f@@k up. never thought it would happen to me. but its more times now. i dont want to use the comparison here but......... if I was a thai husband, I am pretty sure everything that was said would be taken into consideration.

I am not saying..."LISTEN to me, I am Farrang, I know more than you" I am just looking for a bit of consideration. Somethings My life lessons have taught me well in. when I know what I'm talking about, it is extremely difficult to be ignored.

As I said before, I am trying to make plans for her son. I am not being selfish. I worry for him.

But still........... I am ignored.

There is no right or wrong, only the consequences of our actions. The consequenses of her actions in this case should be that you will not pay one baht for her kids education.

Don't feel bad about it, its HER behavior that warranted that consequence.

If you give in and accept her decision and pay for the education then you are praising and encouraging this behavior.

[travelmann]

I would pack that bag and move out for a bit if I were you....she will probably say sorry but the thing is they can't keep the act up, I read this thread as an Englishman with Thai wife living and working in the U.K and married for just over 1 year...I have had to give the ultimatums and even see them through till she gets the point...not easy and it's not just cos she is Thai

Must confess that the guys l know with a lady problem have no backbone, nooooo, thats the wrong phrase, they are gentlemen, that think their kindness will prevail, but, understanding a lady from a different culture is a nightmare, been there, still there , but all must read between the lines at all times and when in your mind things are not to good, then hit the roof.

I really believe this to be a misconception. Even in the west, there is a fine line between being a nice guy, and being a wuss. Women hate wusses. Women would rather be with a total prick than a wuss. Sad to say, farangs in Thailand tend to be wusses. The result will be the same here as it would be in the west. Women will walk all over you like a cheap rug.

Balls................ I think youll find women are as different and varied as the weather actually!

[pattayadingo]

I feel the sorry will come only when you have gone.

It is so difficult when we are ignored by our SO's in favour of the advice (good or bad) given by family and friends.

From 2 particular relationships, one of 2 years and one of 9 months or so of living with these partners full time, I got the overall impression that Thai people generally feel we understand nothing at all of the world. We know different. But the Thai way of thinking does tend towards us foreigners as being fools and in so many cases where we see logic and have forward thinking / planning, so many Thai people have none.

Maybe she does love you and care a lot for you. She may also be quite intelligent etc., but that base level of us foreigners not understanding does still seem to simmer under the surface.

You rightly try to look to the future to pay for the education of the boy. Sensible to us. No problem to her because it is many years away.

What to do? Others have said their piece. Me? I moved on. Life is too short for so much aggravation and seemingly petty attitude and all this talk of 'face' over your wanting to do what is best for you and the family.

After I moved on from my 2 year stint i got all sorts of sorry and pleas to come back. Many things were changed. But it was too late for me.

Maybe if you moved away for a month or more you might suddenly be missed? Especially if you took your money with you and she thought it a permanent move.

[Beetlejuice]

For some..."sorry" really is an impossibility.

I pity such people. Mostly.

I'm struggling to understand why people think the lady in question has to say sorry for using land she owns in anyway she wants, without being forced into another use simply because a farang voluntarily decided to support her and her son.

Good point.

I think that the OP doesn’t understand is his wife has no idea she is doing anything wrong and probably confused regarding her husbands attitude towards her.

You can’t get blood out of a stone and what’s not there, is not there, and so be it.

Like me with my missus, he chose her and we either make the best and live with it, or bugger off. As I said there are only two alternatives.

In this case the OP has voluntarily taken on this family, so in a way he is not morally bound to stay with them and is free to walk away anytime.

Taking an educated guess, I think the OP has plied money into this relationship, land, property and so on and is fearful that he’s going to lose out big out big time and this is the main reason he stays on the scene as the long and suffering.

In my case my children are really my children and whatever I have will be passed on to them, which is already cut and dry. But if I were to marry into a family than no way would I commit my life assets in their names without first safeguarding my own interests and creating some sort of legal contract whereas I go, than my wealth comes with me, meaning that they play by my rules, with respect and it`s in they’re interests to appease me.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Beetlejuice