Manchester United

[rixalex]

Serious question to the united fans, how good is Rooney now?

For such an important game it is the norm to play your superstars, but no Rodney. Does this mean he is on the decline?

Here we go Rooney in decline thread

Ferguson and Phelan said t was a tactical decision which was working well until the sending off so i wouldn't read much into it also he has not played that much lately due to injuries so he needs more games also.Rooney is still a quality footballer.

I reckon he might be off Mr Red, whilst he still has enough quality that can command a decent transfer fee.

What exactly was that tactical decision?

The tactical decision was he played Wellbeck behind Van Persie and to nullify Alonso which he did very well and used the pace of Wellbeck to counter when United attacked which he also did very well until the referee intervened.

In fact the tactics by Ferguson where spot on last night and the players did magnificent. Anything else i can help you with?

yeah, if they did so well then why didn't they score? are you sure you were watching the right game? just incase, Madrid were wearing their away strip all in black, and united were in red with white shorts...same game?

Madrid all in black?! They were in their green away strip. Perhaps you were the one watching a different game.

[JacknDanny]

Also Madrids keepers late punch to Vidics head well after he had headed the ball was never mentioned, just as dangerous as nani's limp leg should have been a straight red for there keeper that.

I agree, except for the fact the keeper didnt KICK Vidic in the head!!

You guys should read the rules of football. I know being a United fan, kind of exempts you from rules, as the ref normally just does as your players want him to. But the fould by Nani was dangerous play.

Personally I think the sending off was harsh, but understandable.

At that point, granted United were in control, but there was still a long way to go.

Credit to Mourinho for making the substitution when he did..... changed the game. I feel Ferguson could and should have made an immediate tactical change. But what I saw was United fall apart for about 15 minutes.

Anyway, swings and roundabouts.... its only a matter of time before Webb et al redress the balance and continue bailing you lot out

Kicking in the head not ok, punching in the head no problem?

The fact is, if raising your leg to take down a high ball, as Nani did, now constitutes a red card because it is deemed potentially dangerous, refs will be giving out red cards by the handful every game. Take for example all the times when the striker runs for a loose ball to hit it in the net at the same time as the keeper comes flying out to dive at the ball. Invariably that sort of incident either results in the striker just getting to the ball before the keeper and scoring, or it results in them arriving at the ball at the same time and the keeper getting a foot in the midriff. No malice perhaps, but potentially dangerous, sure it is. Red card then.

Going to get the stage when nobody will dare any sort of contact. Pretty much got that way already in terms of play in the box because of all the diving that goes on. Players may as well start wearing blouses.

Regarding what happened after the sending off, and the way we as a team coped with it, i think on reflection you are quite right Jack. I think everyone was in a state of shock to be honest, and was concentrating more on what the <deleted> just happened, rather than concentrating on defending for our lives. That said, Modric's goal wasn't really the result of our defense falling apart, it was the result of a great bit of skill that when you are a man down, is always going to be hard to prevent. Same with the second goal really. A great ball in. You can't expect to sit back and soak up the pressure against a team like Real, and not have a problem, well at least not for more than five minutes or so. We had a good half an hour to cope, and i just don't think it was going to happen, no matter what subs were made. Same goes for Madrid, had we had one more man on the pitch than them, and had they been trying to get their heads around a terrible injustice, they wouldn't have won. Anyone who says that they are a bunch of elite professionals that would have simply taken the decision on the chin and gone on to win is talking garbage. Don't buy it for a second. Any team would have been rocked as we were, by what suddenly unfolded. Human nature.

I agree.

And without any sarcasm meant, the fact is that United are not used to being in that situation, ie playing a team as good or better than them, and then being given a questionable decision against them. They were shell-shocked.

For example if it had been Wigan playing Real Madrid, in that exact situation. Wigan would have coped a lot better.

United actually played a lot better in the last 10 minutes, once they had got over the initial shock

[mrbojangles]

De Jong incident. De Jong shown a Red and branded a thug (by lots on here I should also mention).

Nani incident. Exactly the same but cries of "never a red" and "we were hard done by" and Fergie refusing to speak cos he was so distraught at the decision.

You were also lucky not have been awarded a penalty against you for raphaels hand ball.

[rixalex]

I think Ronaldo summed it up quite well when asked about the red card, he said, I don't want to comment too much, but this is football and these things do happen, so we have to get on with the game. He's absolutely right...Just get on with it....United only have themselves to blame, not the ref...

By Ronaldo saying that he didn't want to comment, and that this is football, it was clear what he meant. He didn't think it was a red card - so if you think he is absolutely right, why haven't you been able to bring yourself to admit the same thing?. He thought the ref was to blame for making a mistake. Refs sometimes make mistakes that change the outcome of games. Nothing new in that. Sometimes teams prevail in spite of mistakes, sometimes they don't. That's football.

Either way, teams aren't to blame for refs mistakes - whether they profit from the mistake or whether they suffer - and if it had of been Real Madrid reduced to ten because of the ref's mistake, i'm sure you would have no problem acknowledging that fact, and i'm also sure you would of been as aggrieved as United fans were.

I have no ill-feeling towards Real Madrid whatsoever, but that said, i do look forward to the time when the ref makes a daft decision against them that has a big effect on the outcome of the game, if only to await hearing with baited breath from you how it was all the team's fault.

[petermik]

Serious question to the united fans, how good is Rooney now?

For such an important game it is the norm to play your superstars, but no Rodney. Does this mean he is on the decline?

Rooney/Giggs whoever-players come and go, SAF will pick the side which he believes will serve MUFC best-his philosophy is simple- Manchester United employ him as manager and it is his duty to produce a team to produce exciting entertaining football which is instilled in the history of this great club,no-one player or employee (including himself) is bigger than the club-he considers it an honour to be in his position

[carmine]

Serious question to the united fans, how good is Rooney now?

For such an important game it is the norm to play your superstars, but no Rodney. Does this mean he is on the decline?

Rooney/Giggs whoever-players come and go, SAF will pick the side which he believes will serve MUFC best-his philosophy is simple- Manchester United employ him as manager and it is his duty to produce a team to produce exciting entertaining football which is instilled in the history of this great club,no-one player or employee (including himself) is bigger than the club-he considers it an honour to be in his position

Any talk of him leaving is very premature. He'll probably take it on the chin and knuckle down Then again he might not like playing second fiddle to Van Persie and want out.

Mindyou if he does want to leave he has limited options, not because of any reason other than his fee and the stupid wages that Utd are paying him which, no matter how good he is, he's not worth. He's a fine player but what is it, 250k per week?!! Thats more than two Gareth Bales!!!!!!!!!!

[Jayroo]

Serious question to the united fans, how good is Rooney now?

For such an important game it is the norm to play your superstars, but no Rodney. Does this mean he is on the decline?

Here we go Rooney in decline thread

Ferguson and Phelan said t was a tactical decision which was working well until the sending off so i wouldn't read much into it also he has not played that much lately due to injuries so he needs more games also.Rooney is still a quality footballer.

I reckon he might be off Mr Red, whilst he still has enough quality that can command a decent transfer fee.

What exactly was that tactical decision?

The tactical decision was he played Wellbeck behind Van Persie and to nullify Alonso which he did very well and used the pace of Wellbeck to counter when United attacked which he also did very well until the referee intervened.

In fact the tactics by Ferguson where spot on last night and the players did magnificent. Anything else i can help you with?

yeah, if they did so well then why didn't they score? are you sure you were watching the right game? just incase, Madrid were wearing their away strip all in black, and united were in red with white shorts...same game?

Madrid all in black?! They were in their green away strip. Perhaps you were the one watching a different game.

typical united fan, pedandic arguementive lot, the color isn't the point of this debate, get with the program.

[rixalex]

Any talk of him leaving is very premature. He'll probably take it on the chin and knuckle down Then again he might not like playing second fiddle to Van Persie and want out.

I don't think playing second fiddle is a big problem. The way that he plays the game demonstrates that he isn't one of those who has to be at the centre of all the glory. And most of the time he has been at United, he has been second fiddle to someone. RVP now, Ronaldo before. Besides, when he threatened to leave it was supposedly because he wasn't happy with the quality of players coming in, so he can hardly complain when decent new ones come through and usurp his position, can he?

[alfieconn]

De Jong incident. De Jong shown a Red and branded a thug (by lots on here I should also mention).

article-0-0A688777000005DC-335_634x448.jpg

Nani incident. Exactly the same but cries of "never a red" and "we were hard done by" and Fergie refusing to speak cos he was so distraught at the decision.

article-0-187653B8000005DC-926_634x496.jpg

You were also lucky not have been awarded a penalty against you for raphaels hand ball.

article-0-18761087000005DC-45_634x460.jpg

Great, well done to J&D and BJ for clearing that up lets hope thats the last we hear of it

[carmine]

Any talk of him leaving is very premature. He'll probably take it on the chin and knuckle down Then again he might not like playing second fiddle to Van Persie and want out.

I don't think playing second fiddle is a big problem. The way that he plays the game demonstrates that he isn't one of those who has to be at the centre of all the glory. And most of the time he has been at United, he has been second fiddle to someone. RVP now, Ronaldo before. Besides, when he threatened to leave it was supposedly because he wasn't happy with the quality of players coming in, so he can hardly complain when decent new ones come through and usurp his position, can he?

I suppose not, but try not to be so pedantic and arguementative will you!!

[Jayroo]

I think Ronaldo summed it up quite well when asked about the red card, he said, I don't want to comment too much, but this is football and these things do happen, so we have to get on with the game. He's absolutely right...Just get on with it....United only have themselves to blame, not the ref...

By Ronaldo saying that he didn't want to comment, and that this is football, it was clear what he meant. He didn't think it was a red card - so if you think he is absolutely right, why haven't you been able to bring yourself to admit the same thing?. He thought the ref was to blame for making a mistake. Refs sometimes make mistakes that change the outcome of games. Nothing new in that. Sometimes teams prevail in spite of mistakes, sometimes they don't. That's football.

Either way, teams aren't to blame for refs mistakes - whether they profit from the mistake or whether they suffer - and if it had of been Real Madrid reduced to ten because of the ref's mistake, i'm sure you would have no problem acknowledging that fact, and i'm also sure you would of been as aggrieved as United fans were.

I have no ill-feeling towards Real Madrid whatsoever, but that said, i do look forward to the time when the ref makes a daft decision against them that has a big effect on the outcome of the game, if only to await hearing with baited breath from you how it was all the team's fault.

he didnt want to comment because nani is his fellow countryman and he has a soft spot for united and fergie, also he is a professional, unlike you lot, bunch of whingers, real professional players don't give their thoughts of a ref during interviews, even if it was 100% correct or not, I know this is hard fo united fans to understand.

[carmine]

De Jong incident. De Jong shown a Red and branded a thug (by lots on here I should also mention).

article-0-0A688777000005DC-335_634x448.jpg

Nani incident. Exactly the same but cries of "never a red" and "we were hard done by" and Fergie refusing to speak cos he was so distraught at the decision.

article-0-187653B8000005DC-926_634x496.jpg

You were also lucky not have been awarded a penalty against you for raphaels hand ball.

article-0-18761087000005DC-45_634x460.jpg

Great, well done to J&D and BJ for clearing that up lets hope thats the last we hear of it

So was it a good decision or a bad one? I've lost track where this has gone.

Anyway you can't knock the referee because outside of football he's a really good bloke.

[jellydog]

Serious question to the united fans, how good is Rooney now?

For such an important game it is the norm to play your superstars, but no Rodney. Does this mean he is on the decline?

Rooney/Giggs whoever-players come and go, SAF will pick the side which he believes will serve MUFC best-his philosophy is simple- Manchester United employ him as manager and it is his duty to produce a team to produce exciting entertaining football which is instilled in the history of this great club,no-one player or employee (including himself) is bigger than the club-he considers it an honour to be in his position

Any talk of him leaving is very premature. He'll probably take it on the chin and knuckle down Then again he might not like playing second fiddle to Van Persie and want out.

Mindyou if he does want to leave he has limited options, not because of any reason other than his fee and the stupid wages that Utd are paying him which, no matter how good he is, he's not worth. He's a fine player but what is it, 250k per week?!! Thats more than two Gareth Bales!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting to see how things work out with Rooney. I'd bet he's gone. What with RVP, Welbeck and the rest, I'd guess the bigwigs at United are beginning to see Rooney as an overly expensive, inconsistent, injury prone, and at times incomprehensible commodity. Time to move him along for a nice piece of change, and welcome in some fresh new malleable faces.

[carmine]

I think Ronaldo summed it up quite well when asked about the red card, he said, I don't want to comment too much, but this is football and these things do happen, so we have to get on with the game. He's absolutely right...Just get on with it....United only have themselves to blame, not the ref...

By Ronaldo saying that he didn't want to comment, and that this is football, it was clear what he meant. He didn't think it was a red card - so if you think he is absolutely right, why haven't you been able to bring yourself to admit the same thing?. He thought the ref was to blame for making a mistake. Refs sometimes make mistakes that change the outcome of games. Nothing new in that. Sometimes teams prevail in spite of mistakes, sometimes they don't. That's football.

Either way, teams aren't to blame for refs mistakes - whether they profit from the mistake or whether they suffer - and if it had of been Real Madrid reduced to ten because of the ref's mistake, i'm sure you would have no problem acknowledging that fact, and i'm also sure you would of been as aggrieved as United fans were.

I have no ill-feeling towards Real Madrid whatsoever, but that said, i do look forward to the time when the ref makes a daft decision against them that has a big effect on the outcome of the game, if only to await hearing with baited breath from you how it was all the team's fault.

he didnt want to comment because nani is his fellow countryman and he has a soft spot for united and fergie, also he is a professional, unlike you lot, bunch of whingers, real professional players don't give their thoughts of a ref during interviews, even if it was 100% correct or not, I know this is hard fo united fans to understand.

Did a Man Utd fan nick you bird or shoot your dog by any chance?

[rixalex]

typical united fan, pedandic arguementive lot, the color isn't the point of this debate, get with the program.

When you sarcastically question whether someone was watching the same game, and check if they know what colour strips the teams were wearing, it's best to make sure you know first... save from appearing like a bit of a t1t.

[HeavyDrinker]

I'd say Mr B you are going to be hung by your own petard.

Look at the angles on the De Jong incident and on the Nani one.

Arbeloa should have seen yellow for his wrecklessness.

To say that the 'world of referees' agree with the Turk are also lies. Please never use Martin Samuels as a reference. Please.

United come out of this as winners on 4 clear counts.

1) They showed all them ABU tw*ts they CAN hold their own in Europe.
2) They shut up all them dull ABUS that they don't always get the refs at OT so that fooks them off.
3) In spite of the 'debt', if their owners leave, they won't be f*cked.
4) Every football fan wished it was their club in the limelight as United/Real were on Tuesday night. Every fan....Including those in the fight for 3rd place....

[carmine]

I'd say Mr B you are going to be hung by your own petard.

Look at the angles on the De Jong incident and on the Nani one.

Arbeloa should have seen yellow for his wrecklessness.

To say that the 'world of referees' agree with the Turk are also lies. Please never use Martin Samuels as a reference. Please.

United come out of this as winners on 4 clear counts.

1) They showed all them ABU tw*ts they CAN hold their own in Europe.

2) They shut up all them dull ABUS that they don't always get the refs at OT so that fooks them off.

3) In spite of the 'debt', if their owners leave, they won't be f*cked.

4) Every football fan wished it was their club in the limelight as United/Real were on Tuesday night. Every fan....Including those in the fight for 3rd place....

I don't think anyone said you couldn't hold your own just that you are not as good as some of the others.

Can't for the life of me see where you are going with points 2, 3 and 4. The ref wasn't an FA ref, how do you know how well you will fair under new owners until you know who they are and regards your fourth point i' quite satisfied wathching MY team whether they are in the limelight or not. If we were playing Docaster at the same time your game would have been irrelevent.

Anyway we played Madrid three years ago and got stuffed!

Edited March 7, 2013 by carmine

[Jayroo]

typical united fan, pedandic arguementive lot, the color isn't the point of this debate, get with the program.

When you sarcastically question whether someone was watching the same game, and check if they know what colour strips the teams were wearing, it's best to make sure you know first... save from appearing like a bit of a t1t.

ok, well it still looks black to me, whether on paper it's green or not, big whoop.

[SantiSuk]

^He he. Hope that puts a cap on what has become an extremely dull thread in the last 24 hours HD, mostly care of ABUs.

Next!

Nope - at least another two posts while I typed this!

Edited March 7, 2013 by SantiSuk

[HeavyDrinker]

Dude, they're easy prey when the facts hit them...

[HeavyDrinker]

I'd say Mr B you are going to be hung by your own petard.

Look at the angles on the De Jong incident and on the Nani one.

Arbeloa should have seen yellow for his wrecklessness.

To say that the 'world of referees' agree with the Turk are also lies. Please never use Martin Samuels as a reference. Please.

United come out of this as winners on 4 clear counts.

1) They showed all them ABU tw*ts they CAN hold their own in Europe.

2) They shut up all them dull ABUS that they don't always get the refs at OT so that fooks them off.

3) In spite of the 'debt', if their owners leave, they won't be f*cked.

4) Every football fan wished it was their club in the limelight as United/Real were on Tuesday night. Every fan....Including those in the fight for 3rd place....

I don't think anyone said you couldn't hold your own just that you are not as good as some of the others.

Can't for the life of me see where you are going with points 2, 3 and 4. The ref wasn't an FA ref, how do you know how well you will fair under new owners until you know who they are and regards your fourth point i' quite satisfied wathching MY team whether they are in the limelight or not. If we were playing Docaster at the same time your game would have been irrelevent.

Anyway we played Madrid three years ago and got stuffed!

<deleted>. People were saying how Man U would be stuffed when they met a 'real' team (no pun intended).

Just have a trawl back through all of this dribble and have a read....

[nev]

forgot about it,it is past now,but mr bo and j&d go to great lengths to show it was a red wonder why?already concentrating on sundays game and really looking forward to it.

[alfieconn]

Great, well done to J&D and BJ for clearing that up lets hope thats the last we hear of it

I thought it would be too much to ask perhaps someone can open a book on how long it will go on for

[rixalex]

typical united fan, pedandic arguementive lot, the color isn't the point of this debate, get with the program.

When you sarcastically question whether someone was watching the same game, and check if they know what colour strips the teams were wearing, it's best to make sure you know first... save from appearing like a bit of a t1t.

ok, well it still looks black to me, whether on paper it's green or not, big whoop.

Can't tell one colour from another... hmmm... what razor-sharp eyesight you have. Explains a lot.

[HeavyDrinker]

typical united fan, pedandic arguementive lot, the color isn't the point of this debate, get with the program.

When you sarcastically question whether someone was watching the same game, and check if they know what colour strips the teams were wearing, it's best to make sure you know first... save from appearing like a bit of a t1t.

ok, well it still looks black to me, whether on paper it's green or not, big whoop.

Can't tell one colour from another... hmmm... what razor-sharp eyesight you have. Explains a lot.

Top gimping Mr R!!!

[alfieconn]

typical united fan, pedandic arguementive lot, the color isn't the point of this debate, get with the program.

When you sarcastically question whether someone was watching the same game, and check if they know what colour strips the teams were wearing, it's best to make sure you know first... save from appearing like a bit of a t1t.

ok, well it still looks black to me, whether on paper it's green or not, big whoop.

Can't tell one colour from another... hmmm... what razor-sharp eyesight you have. Explains a lot.

To be fair Rixy, you can have razor-sharp eyesight and still be colour blind, i use to be an Ophthalmologist by the way

[rixalex]

Look at the angles on the De Jong incident and on the Nani one.

This is the crucial part. Nani was much closer to the ball than Arbe, and Arbe was the one who made up a lot of ground and came flying in from an angle behind him. Completely different from when a player is coming towards another player from in an angle in front of them. In that case, the player's eye might be on the ball in the air but they player coming towards them is in their outer line of vision, so they should be expected to take evasive action - ie put their leg down, and if they don't, fine, then it's dangerous play.

To argue that Nani's high foot was red, is basically to argue that any high foot on the field of play, constitutes red, because how does any player with a high foot know that somebody isn't suddenly going to pop up from nowhere and put their body where their foot is? They don't. Not with total certainty anyway. Madness.

[rixalex]

To be fair Rixy, you can have razor-sharp eyesight and still be colour blind, i use to be an Ophthalmologist by the way

LOL Cheers for that information Alfie. Been looking to offload my pedantry crown for some time. She's all yours.

[HeavyDrinker]

Look at the angles on the De Jong incident and on the Nani one.

This is the crucial part. Nani was much closer to the ball than Arbe, and Arbe was the one who made up a lot of ground and came flying in from an angle behind him. Completely different from when a player is coming towards another player from in an angle in front of them. In that case, the player's eye might be on the ball in the air but they player coming towards them is in their outer line of vision, so they should be expected to take evasive action - ie put their leg down, and if they don't, fine, then it's dangerous play.

To argue that Nani's high foot was red, is basically to argue that any high foot on the field of play, constitutes red, because how does any player with a high foot know that somebody isn't suddenly going to pop up from nowhere and put their body where their foot is? They don't. Not with total certainty anyway. Madness.

That's about the best summary of it I've read.

[uptheos]

Uefa has begun disciplinary proceedings against Manchester United following their Champions League defeat by Real Madrid on Tuesday.

European football's governing body is taking action over Nani's red card and the "non-fulfilment of post-match media obligations" at Old Trafford.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21691929