Red Shirts To Rally Outside Parliament: Bangkok

[GentlemanJim]

RT @RichardBarrow: Red Shirts collecting 20,000 signatures to seek impeachment of judges of Constitution Court http://bit.ly/MaWZmB

Well here is my point exactly. I bet 1 million baht that the man on the right foreground does not even know what Constitution Court means, who it is staffed by and who it is appointed by (and if he knew the latter he would run, tearing off his red shirt as he went). This is village head men / hench ,men, gathering their locals and saying 'sign this paper now'.

Carra, PhilW, PhiPhiDon, fookhaht, etc etc it seems you will be in an online dictionary soon. I always thought Red Shift was something to do with the doppler effect, it transpires it is now something different.

[rixalex]

By "objecting vehemently" do you mean taking the capital city hostage and threatening to burn it down if parliament wasn't immediately dissolved? Cos i don't recall them doing that. You must mean some other sort of "objecting vehemently".

No, quite clearly there are many different ways to object vehemently...

The PAD formally renounced non-violence and vowed bloody revenge. In November, the PAD blockaded Parliament prior to a crucial legislative session, used hijacked public buses to take control of the government's provisional offices at Don Muang Airport, and seized control of Suvarnabhumi International Airport. The PAD also threatened to lay siege to the seaports of the Eastern Seaboard.The PAD's sieges and protests ended after the Constitutional Court dissolved the PPP, banned its leaders from politics, and Army Commander Anuphong Phaochinda pressured many PPP MPs to defect to the Democrat Party and elect Abhisit Vejjajiva as Premier. PAD co-leader Kasit Piromya was appointed Foreign Minister in the new government.

I wonder how much more bloodshed we would have seen if the CC hadn't stepped in to offer power to the violent PAD mob?

Similarly how much less bloodshed we would have seen in 2010, had the demands of the reds been met so readily rather than being met with armed suppression?

Remember they simply wanted the opportunity for the Thai people to vote for their own Government, not forcibly instate their own leader...

At the height of the sieges, the PAD openly stated that the only person they would accept as Premier was Abhisit.

Seems entirely democratic and reasonable to me!

Citing the claimed failure of popular democracy in Thailand, the PAD suggested constitutional amendments that would make Parliament a largely royally appointed body. The Asian Human Rights Commission has noted of the PAD and their agenda that, "although they may not describe themselves as fascist, have fascist qualities." It has openly called for the military and Thailand's traditional elite to take a greater role in politics.

A strange stance for those that call themselves democrats...

When you quote stuff can you tell us where you are quoting from please.

[MunterHunter]

Similarly how much less bloodshed we would have seen in 2010, had the demands of the reds been met so readily rather than being met with armed suppression?

Remember they simply wanted the opportunity for the Thai people to vote for their own Government, not forcibly instate their own leader...

Did you forget they were offered early elections, but instead refused them as it was in a few months time and not immediate *RIGHT NOW* - as it happened they got their new elections but had to wait a lot longer... so i wonder how much less bloodshed there would have been had they gracefully accepted the Government giving in to their demands?

Lets face it, the Red were itching for a fight then... much as they are right now

[Buchholz]

I wait in false hope for those who pointed out the illegality of blocking streets last week to resume their call for free traffic flow.

As I said, sitting down in roads for extended periods to protest isn't a legal right. All sides could just as easily have set up all their protests over the years in Lumpini, but the reason they don't is because it doesn't cause half as much chaos or afford them as much protection from the authorities.

here's your "traffic paralyzed"

Red Shirts start gathering outside parliament, collecting signatures seeking impeachment against Constitution Court judges, traffic paralyzed /MCOT

[Ferangled]

Here in Thailand and your talking who is most bad.

I would have a FAIRLY honest top ten or so of baddies here. T.S family, red shirts, greedy M.Ps, police, some top Thai companies, yellow shirts, True,TOT,TAT, government contrators(many) AOT, King Power, Near all local government voted officers. Posters sure can add to that list. Without T.S. and family, red shirts, Yellow shirts would maybe NOT exist. You decide who are the main offenders are. I am neutral with nothing to gain. We all can see you are entrenched on the rose coloured side, and see no evil. Sorry for your viewpoint. I know your not gonna like mine.

Worst and no I don't believe that is the current trend of thought, although I do have some sympathy with your viewpoint.

Currently opinion seems to divide roughly into two camps, those completely blind to the wrongs committed by the opposition but staunchly critical of all things Thaksin/ red, and those sceptical of both sides, who see each as pretty much as bad as the other.

I don't see many posts staunchly supporting Thaksin or the actions of the current administration but do see any posts slightly critical of the opposition or defensive of the Government as being taken as such...

[Buchholz]

Thailand will disappear in destruction due to the reds.

Yes, thanks to the yellows for getting the ball rolling earlier this week with their unlawful blocking of the parliamentary process.

Wait, didn't they get the ball rolling the last round of public disruption too? (Occupying Government House, occupying the airports, etc?)

Nope, that was preceded by the Red Shirts rioting in 2007.

.

[MunterHunter]

BANGKOK: -- Thaksin Shinawatra, in his phone-in from abroad last month, called on all his supporters to forget and forgive so that the country can embark on a genuine reconciliation path. Last week, in another call-in, he changed his tune again, declaring that he had been "robbed" of Bt46 billion by a court order - and that he was determined to fight on.

'nuff said really... when the Leader of this mob changes his mind every few days, whatcha gunna do?

[Ferangled]

Similarly how much less bloodshed we would have seen in 2010, had the demands of the reds been met so readily rather than being met with armed suppression?

Remember they simply wanted the opportunity for the Thai people to vote for their own Government, not forcibly instate their own leader...

Did you forget they were offered early elections, but instead refused them as it was in a few months time and not immediate *RIGHT NOW* - as it happened they got their new elections but had to wait a lot longer... so i wonder how much less bloodshed there would have been had they gracefully accepted the Government giving in to their demands?

Lets face it, the Red were itching for a fight then... much as they are right now

We could go back and forth for days on this but I'm afraid your point is rather mute:

"The PAD's sieges and protests ended after the Constitutional Court dissolved the PPP"

Their demands were met and Abhisit was placed in power.

Not exactly the same response was it? They weren't told "chill out, wait a few months and we promise to step down and hold elections", neither were they shot at by the army.

[rixalex]

Here in Thailand and your talking who is most bad.

I would have a FAIRLY honest top ten or so of baddies here. T.S family, red shirts, greedy M.Ps, police, some top Thai companies, yellow shirts, True,TOT,TAT, government contrators(many) AOT, King Power, Near all local government voted officers. Posters sure can add to that list. Without T.S. and family, red shirts, Yellow shirts would maybe NOT exist. You decide who are the main offenders are. I am neutral with nothing to gain. We all can see you are entrenched on the rose coloured side, and see no evil. Sorry for your viewpoint. I know your not gonna like mine.

Worst and no I don't believe that is the current trend of thought, although I do have some sympathy with your viewpoint.

Currently opinion seems to divide roughly into two camps, those completely blind to the wrongs committed by the opposition but staunchly critical of all things Thaksin/ red, and those sceptical of both sides, who see each as pretty much as bad as the other.

I don't see many posts staunchly supporting Thaksin or the actions of the current administration but do see any posts slightly critical of the opposition or defensive of the Government as being taken as such...

Nobody i think is blind to the the wrongs committed by the opposition - as posts on here show every day - it is just that this is how you choose to label people who don't go along with your history revisionism that seeks to attribute the same level of seriousness to completely different events.

[Buchholz]

Yes, both sides have committed all sorts of wrongs, but this desperation held by red sympathisers for everyone to agree that the respective wrongs of both sides have been in exactly the same measure, is both silly and sad, and in contradiction to the facts.

Despite those factors, it's amazing just how strident their protestations of "they were equally violent" have become.

.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Buchholz

[Ferangled]

Here in Thailand and your talking who is most bad.

I would have a FAIRLY honest top ten or so of baddies here. T.S family, red shirts, greedy M.Ps, police, some top Thai companies, yellow shirts, True,TOT,TAT, government contrators(many) AOT, King Power, Near all local government voted officers. Posters sure can add to that list. Without T.S. and family, red shirts, Yellow shirts would maybe NOT exist. You decide who are the main offenders are. I am neutral with nothing to gain. We all can see you are entrenched on the rose coloured side, and see no evil. Sorry for your viewpoint. I know your not gonna like mine.

Worst and no I don't believe that is the current trend of thought, although I do have some sympathy with your viewpoint.

Currently opinion seems to divide roughly into two camps, those completely blind to the wrongs committed by the opposition but staunchly critical of all things Thaksin/ red, and those sceptical of both sides, who see each as pretty much as bad as the other.

I don't see many posts staunchly supporting Thaksin or the actions of the current administration but do see any posts slightly critical of the opposition or defensive of the Government as being taken as such...

Nobody i think is blind to the the wrongs committed by the opposition - as posts on here show every day - it is just that this is how you choose to label people who don't go along with your history revisionism that seeks to attribute the same level of seriousness to completely different events.

Case in point!

Sorry, please insert ...those ever so slightly blinkered... in place of blind

[Honkytowner]

I've seen it spelled "cahones" "kahunas", "cajones" and now "cahooners"!

Gentlemen (and ladies), the word is "cojones", and it's Spanish for balls.

[GentlemanJim]

The levels of violence probably seem much worse with the reds but i guess having armed soldiers on the street randomly shooting at unarmed people as well as medics and photographers will give that impression.

Do you have proof of that, or is it just red radio propaganda and hearsay

The one big issue here right now is that thailand has a democratically elected government, not the army or army appointed, a government for the people that has a clear majority. If the dems do not like this then they need to do better at the next election, pure and simple. If the PTP think the actions of the army or the courts contravened any laws when they had power, or if the feel the CNS violated or coerced the courts it is their duty to correct that and that is what they are trying to do. Sure it reeks but the people gave them this power and it is this power they are using.

So if a future President of the US and his Government are voted in to power by a majority of white bible bashers, they give them the power, so will it be ok for that President/Government to reinstate apartheid and the imprisonment of Gay's? After all, they would only be using the power the people gave them.

Thaksin is coming back whether people like it or not, his 'crimes' will be shown as being politically motivated, and a part of me thinks that both abhisit and suthep will be glad of an amnesty in the coming months despite their claims to the contrary.

Please please explain to me and to many interested erstwhile colleagues on Thai Visa, how tax evasion to the tune of billions can be shown to be politically motivated. Maybe your ideas on this one could inspire us to present a similar argument to the UK tax man or the IRS.

I must also remind you that there have been NO convictions for the burning of Centralworld as there was no evidence against the arrested men, if something smells fishy thats because it probably is fishy.

Well it must never have happened then. Then again if a Deputy PM's son can literally get away with cold blooded murder in front of eye witnesses, the complications associated with the burning of a little biddy building are minimal.

Edited June 7, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[Thaddeus]

It never ceases to amuse when the term 'politically motivated' is used, as if that in some way absolves the crime.

[hellodolly]

so we can agree, both are as bad as each other

Both groups will use violence to achieve their ends, its just the reds are a lot more eager to do it bigger and more often... so yes whilst they are both as bad as each other, we do have a clear leader in the 'who is worse' race

opinions are like <deleted>, we all have one, that is your opinion, my opinion is that they are as bad as each other.

Ask yourself why the reds feel the need to do it more often and you might eventually realise what the problems are with this country.

That is a easy question they don't have any common sense. But they do have leaders with money and private agendas willing to use them. Being as they are red shirts if offered money they will grab it that is what it is all about to them money in there pocket. Unless it is Thaksin orientated then they are happy to except his often broken word. As I said lack of common sense on the red shirts part.

[Reasonableman]

It never ceases to amuse when the term 'politically motivated' is used, as if that in some way absolves the crime.

Similarly, "a sudden rush of blood to the head", or "I don't know, I was really drunk at the time..." are NOT valid or acceptable denials of responsibility for one's actions.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Reasonableman

[GentlemanJim]

[

No, quite clearly there are many different ways to object vehemently...

The PAD formally renounced non-violence and vowed bloody revenge. In November, the PAD blockaded Parliament prior to a crucial legislative session, used hijacked public buses to take control of the government's provisional offices at Don Muang Airport, and seized control of Suvarnabhumi International Airport. The PAD also threatened to lay siege to the seaports of the Eastern Seaboard.The PAD's sieges and protests ended after the Constitutional Court dissolved the PPP, banned its leaders from politics, and Army Commander Anuphong Phaochinda pressured many PPP MPs to defect to the Democrat Party and elect Abhisit Vejjajiva as Premier. PAD co-leader Kasit Piromya was appointed Foreign Minister in the new government.

I wonder how much more bloodshed we would have seen if the CC hadn't stepped in to offer power to the violent PAD mob?

Similarly how much less bloodshed we would have seen in 2010, had the demands of the reds been met so readily rather than being met with armed suppression?

The PPP was dissolved because of electoral fraud amongst other things, a process that was in the pipeline before the yellow demonstrations.

There would have been much less blood shed in 2010 if Abhisit would have acted quicker, instead of giving the reds the keys to the city. As it happens the reds demands were met in FULL by Abhisit, so get your facts right. Two days later the red leadership, astonished they had got what they wanted without the fight they so desperately needed, decided to change the goal posts and rejected the Governments surrendering to its demands.

You are another that seems to think that if we dislike the reds and Thaksin, we must be yellow. It is untrue, I think yellow leaders should be in jail also, so please save your tit-for-tat arguments of the 'yeah but the yellows did this...' variety, they are futile as they bear no weight with most of us who just want to see the criminal element in politics in jail, regardless of the loyalty to one colour or another.

We could go back and forth for days on this but I'm afraid your point is rather mute:

"The PAD's sieges and protests ended after the Constitutional Court dissolved the PPP"

Their demands were met and Abhisit was placed in power.

Not exactly the same response was it? They weren't told "chill out, wait a few months and we promise to step down and hold elections", neither were they shot at by the army.

His point is not mute, it is very very valid. Also Abihsit was voted into the PM seat by all members of the house of Parliament. As said above, they were not told to chill out, their demands were met in FULL, they then changed the goal posts, incidentally they did not then offer any other demands, just in case they were agreed to also, they just went for the fight that they needed. If you did a little research you would find yourself embarrassed fighting the corner for a bunch of criminals. Then again they are rather manipulative aren't they.

Edited June 7, 2012 by GentlemanJim

[GentlemanJim]

It never ceases to amuse when the term 'politically motivated' is used, as if that in some way absolves the crime.

Similarly, "a sudden rush of blood to the head", or "I don't know, I was really drunk at the time..." are NOT valid or acceptable denials of responsibility for one's actions.

Surely if a law was passed that made politically motivated crimes subject to annulment then the assassination of any head of Government would be instantly legalised as a politically motivated crime. Mmmm maybe there is room for this bill after all

[baboon]

It never ceases to amuse when the term 'politically motivated' is used, as if that in some way absolves the crime.

Similarly, "a sudden rush of blood to the head", or "I don't know, I was really drunk at the time..." are NOT valid or acceptable denials of responsibility for one's actions.

dam_n.

[wildorchid]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe in democracy for all or do you think it is ok as long as the people you support have the control?

YES, at last someone who see's that there is a formula that democacy, if a party has the majority then they can pass the bill, if the numbers are there.

Unfortunatly there are many people in this forum who prefure overthowing the fairly elected govenment the PTP, when will they accept the umpiers (the people of thailand) desision and when it's election time all partys can try agian,

Also Gentelmanjim, I, or any others I know were "hereded in front of the village headman and told to sign a paper"

I sugest that there is right and wrong on both sides, I just wish people could have thier political views and voice them without fear of ridicule from others with a diferent view, this goes for both sides. There is a diference between being proactive and reactive

[hellodolly]

Here in Thailand and your talking who is most bad.

I would have a FAIRLY honest top ten or so of baddies here. T.S family, red shirts, greedy M.Ps, police, some top Thai companies, yellow shirts, True,TOT,TAT, government contrators(many) AOT, King Power, Near all local government voted officers. Posters sure can add to that list. Without T.S. and family, red shirts, Yellow shirts would maybe NOT exist. You decide who are the main offenders are. I am neutral with nothing to gain. We all can see you are entrenched on the rose coloured side, and see no evil. Sorry for your viewpoint. I know your not gonna like mine.

Worst and no I don't believe that is the current trend of thought, although I do have some sympathy with your viewpoint.

Currently opinion seems to divide roughly into two camps, those completely blind to the wrongs committed by the opposition but staunchly critical of all things Thaksin/ red, and those sceptical of both sides, who see each as pretty much as bad as the other.

I don't see many posts staunchly supporting Thaksin or the actions of the current administration but do see any posts slightly critical of the opposition or defensive of the Government as being taken as such...

Nobody i think is blind to the the wrongs committed by the opposition - as posts on here show every day - it is just that this is how you choose to label people who don't go along with your history revisionism that seeks to attribute the same level of seriousness to completely different events.

Case in point!

Sorry, please insert ...those ever so slightly blinkered... in place of blind

well I will agree with you that the Dem's have done their share of wrongs.

But I would like to point out to you that there support came from many different sources. 40 of their supporters were trained by Thaksin.

The PT does not have to make concessions they have the power from whithin there own party. Hence here it is now bend over so I can-------- it.

[Crushdepth]

Not so dissimilar to the amount of small arms and bombs that were found around the Central World area...

Also having a gun pointed at my head by red-shirt guards during the 2010 red insurgency and forcibly searched by a handful of thugs whilst trying to make my way to my place of work leads me to dislike the reds more than the yellows - no i cant prove that happened, as i already threw away the soiled underwear...

so we can agree, both are as bad as each other

Err... no.

The Yellow protests were mainly peaceful, the Red protests have been mainly violent.

And how you could make the comparison earlier between missing a flight and being in a burning building is just way beyond my grasp.

haahaha whitewashing history, the yellows were peaceful hahahahhaha, do you really believe that.

i will also point out that I made no claim that missing a flight was worse than burning a building down, I simply said to ask the people that are affected by either and you will get an answer based on that. I will also remind you that we know the yellows were responsible for being at the airport, that was clear, what is not clear is exactly who started the fires.

Lets deal in facts here, not your fantasy world about peaceful yellows or I night get warned for used the laughing smiley too often.

Both sides were violent, both used violence, if in your opinion one side was more violent then thats up to you, personally i think any amount is too much but you seem to think that car bombs are ok because the reds did worse (in your opinion). that is like asking if you would rather die by being shot or stabbed.

The trouble with your opinion is that it is an uninformed load of <deleted>. Portraying the yellow shirt protests as violent is ridiculous - had you been living here at the time, you would know that. Comparing it to the violence associated with red shirt protests is spectacularly ignorant.

[Nickymaster]

You are out of your mind. Especially this part:

The levels of violence probably seem much worse with the reds but i guess having armed soldiers on the street randomly shooting at unarmed people as well as medics and photographers.

Thaksin is not coming back any time soon.

Fully in control of my senses thank you very much, balanced and viewing both sides, save your insults for the blinkered ones without the ability to be rational. The people that think the yellows were not violent seem to be the ones out of their minds,

i reiterate 'both sides are as bad as each other' and 'Thaksin will be back whether people like it or not'

just a thought, if the shooting was not random can you explain why photographers were shot, why a medic was shot whilst helping people, and don't say that was the reds shooting them as it is clear that the soldiers were panicking and shooting at random as can be seen when one soldier shot one of his own men when they were approaching on motorcycles to help them and were posing no immediate threat, so yes, the army were responsible for many deaths when they were under no immediate threat, I would call this random shooting at targets that were no threat.

Can you explain who killed the 20 or so officials? You shoot at officials in ANY other country in the world and and you are in deep shit Mr. balanced (red) view.

Have you witnessed both groups protesting? Have you been living here for the past 7 years? The yellows are annoying, the reds ARE violent (and their leaders don't seem to mind at all).

Edited June 7, 2012 by Nickymaster

[silent]

It is almost like a cartoon in that Pua Thai just won't reset the clock and make it look like certain things never happened when we all know they did. How stupid do they think the whole country is?

Therein lies the answer to the question. To be or not to be and is it real or memorex?

[GentlemanJim]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe in democracy for all or do you think it is ok as long as the people you support have the control?

YES, at last someone who see's that there is a formula that democacy, if a party has the majority then they can pass the bill, if the numbers are there.

Unfortunatly there are many people in this forum who prefure overthowing the fairly elected govenment the PTP, when will they accept the umpiers (the people of thailand) desision and when it's election time all partys can try agian,

Also Gentelmanjim, I, or any others I know were "hereded in front of the village headman and told to sign a paper"

I sugest that there is right and wrong on both sides, I just wish people could have thier political views and voice them without fear of ridicule from others with a diferent view, this goes for both sides. There is a diference between being proactive and reactive

Wildorchid

your views on politics have as much credibility as your claims to be a Thai lady, and middle class at that.

[jonclark]

You know much as I enjoy the discussion on TV, we should all remain calm and remember that Thailand is for the Thais and if this and all that has gone before is seen by them as acceptable and appropriate then fine so be it.

There is no need for us (foreigners) to get so hot under the collar and state our opinions as truth. I moved here to relax, enjoy the weather and opportunities for outdoor recreation, as I'm sure most of us did as well. Not hang out on an internet forum discussing the same politics time and time again? (although I do perversely enjoy it) and slating other expats as being misguided, disillusion etc for supporting the reds, yellows, pinks greens or blacks.

Let the Thais sort it out, they neither want nor desire our opinions and they prefer their prefer their politics served with a large helping of corruption, nepotism with a large side dish of bullshit and <deleted>. So let them eat it.

[GentlemanJim]

A bit of news in

RT @RichardBarrow: Next week is World Blood Donor Day & the Thai Red Cross have organised activities on Sunday, 8am-4pm at their HQ

I am sure they can get the Red protestors to queue up this time to donate some blood instead of throwing it on Abhisits front Garden.

[scorecard]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe in democracy for all or do you think it is ok as long as the people you support have the control?

Democracy is rather more complicated than the simplified view you are offering. The Parliament is subject to checks on its power, as are all branches of government. The Constitution Court is an important part of that.

@carra, your comment strongly suggests that whoever has the most seats can do anything they please without question and with no boundaries and without staying within the law and within what are socially acceptable boundaries. Is that really what you mean? I hope not!

[scorecard]

You know much as I enjoy the discussion on TV, we should all remain calm and remember that Thailand is for the Thais and if this and all that has gone before is seen by them as acceptable and appropriate then fine so be it.

There is no need for us (foreigners) to get so hot under the collar and state our opinions as truth. I moved here to relax, enjoy the weather and opportunities for outdoor recreation, as I'm sure most of us did as well. Not hang out on an internet forum discussing the same politics time and time again? (although I do perversely enjoy it) and slating other expats as being misguided, disillusion etc for supporting the reds, yellows, pinks greens or blacks.

Let the Thais sort it out, they neither want nor desire our opinions and they prefer their prefer their politics served with a large helping of corruption, nepotism with a large side dish of bullshit and <deleted>. So let them eat it.

Actually for me it's a little more than your description.

I have adult children and young grandchildren all born and living in this wonderful country.

I had hoped that by the time my Thai children were adults there would have been more progress on the development of democracy. Sadly no.

My kids are well educated about the concepts od democracy and the need for strict application of the law, etc. They make me proud when they engage their friends in such discussions.

I'm still hoping for my grandchildren.

Edited June 7, 2012 by scorecard

[Nickymaster]

Maybe because the reds are the ones trying to bully/force thru a bill that will white wash the fugitive Ex-PM of all his crimes, allow him to walk back into the coutnry and never serve a day of his sentence and give him all of his ill-gotten gains back to him... all the while throwing the country deeper and deeper into civil war.

Given the above, i'd take the yellows over the reds any day of the week.

Bully??

they are doing what is legal and will get the bill through the house because they have the most seats in the house, pure and simple, that is democracy, whether you like it or not that is how democracy works.

Let me ask you a question, do you believe in democracy for all or do you think it is ok as long as the people you support have the control?

Democracy is rather more complicated than the simplified view you are offering. The Parliament is subject to checks on its power, as are all branches of government. The Constitution Court is an important part of that.

@carra, your comment strongly suggests that whoever has the most seats can do anything they please without question and with no boundaries and without staying within the law and within what are socially acceptable boundaries. Is that really what you mean? I hope not!

@carra, yes democracy is rather more complicated then just giving a party the right to do whatever it want just because it has most seats in the house.