Expats In Thailand: Is Your Goal Here To "Integrate" Into Thai Society?

[letitbe]

what on earth for. Ive lived here 18+ years and love the country and get on well with my Thai neighbours. I speak reasonable Thai and have a lovely thai wife and 2 lovely thai/forang children. Anyone here who really thinks they have a chance in hell of not always being odd ball out if you live as I do inside thai society is IMO deluded.

You can try for 50 years but you will never get to the heart of Thainess and how things operate here or in most of non western asia. Its simply a matter of culture differences and totally different thought process's due to the way Thais are brought up, educated and think. People who claim they understand even a small part of things here simply have not been here long enough to understand they will never be able to integrate other than at a superficial level with any others than their partners and immediate family.

I integrate to the extent that I live in a Thai village, talk to locals about everyday things, even go to the village parties and have no problem living with them. However it would be totally impossible to fully integrate except with Thais who have been brought up in western countries however good their or my language skills.

[cdnvic]

Discussions about moderation have been removed, and everyone involved knows better.

[BirdsandBooze]

No. I'm the only farang in my part of town and the cultural difference between me and the Thais is what makes things interesting; my neighbours seem to view me as some sort of flawed exotic and I'm happy to go along with that. My goal is not to integrate with, but to happily exist alongside the natives, and I'd much rather have Thais as neighbours than those sanctimonious little sh*ts who come here and kid themselves they've integrated.

[ARISTIDE]

I don't have any intention to eat chicken feet (or any other culinary oddities) nor will I ever ride (or be a passenger on) a motorbike.

I do though try to understand and be respectful towards Thai culture and social norms. For example, I try to remember not to hold my wife's hand in public.

In Thailand you can hold your wife's hand. But you should not hold another man's hand or hug etc.

And Thai don't normally eat Chicken feet.

[canuckamuck]

I don't have any intention to eat chicken feet (or any other culinary oddities) nor will I ever ride (or be a passenger on) a motorbike.

I do though try to understand and be respectful towards Thai culture and social norms. For example, I try to remember not to hold my wife's hand in public.

In Thailand you can hold your wife's hand. But you should not hold another man's hand or hug etc.

And Thai don't normally eat Chicken feet.

Ha ha, it is so strange that all the supermarkets and meat markets have lots of chicken feet to sell, because Thais don't eat that.

They must lose a lot of money. LOL

[Ron19]

I don't have any intention to eat chicken feet (or any other culinary oddities) nor will I ever ride (or be a passenger on) a motorbike.

I do though try to understand and be respectful towards Thai culture and social norms. For example, I try to remember not to hold my wife's hand in public.

In Thailand you can hold your wife's hand. But you should not hold another man's hand or hug etc.

And Thai don't normally eat Chicken feet.

I've found that Thai people do eat chickens feet.They are in most wet markets i've seen but there may be parts of the country where it is not normal fare.My wife spent 15 years in Australia with me and when she got together with her Thai friends over there,chickens feet was one of the things that was nearly always on the menu.Can't eat them myself. Edited June 27, 2012 by Ron19

[BigJohnnyBKK]

In Thailand you can hold your wife's hand. But you should not hold another man's hand or hug etc.

And Thai don't normally eat Chicken feet.

You're obviously associating with the wrong kind of Thais. When the chief shopper comes back from the market with kilos of them they are greeted with a joyful high-pitched chorus of glee in this house.

And my male colleagues at work, managers at customer sites etc often hold my hand, e.g. walking from the office to go to work together.

Found it quite difficult at first, but am used to it now.

Still don't eat chicken feet though, maybe a nibble when visiting just to be polite.

[flying]

In this thread I have wondered about the OP's definition of "Integrate"

If it is as I thought......

"Bring into equal participation in; give equal consideration to"

Then I would think many do in fact Integrate

But reading the replies it seems many assume "Integrate" to be

all or nothing.....Become a Thai citizen etc....Give up previous Nationality,culture etc.

Just curious but OP what is your definition?

Thanks

Edited June 27, 2012 by flying

[edwinclapham]

I don't have any intention to eat chicken feet (or any other culinary oddities) nor will I ever ride (or be a passenger on) a motorbike.

I do though try to understand and be respectful towards Thai culture and social norms. For example, I try to remember not to hold my wife's hand in public.

In Thailand you can hold your wife's hand. But you should not hold another man's hand or hug etc.

And Thai don't normally eat Chicken feet.

I've found that Thai people do eat chickens feet.They are in most wet markets i've seen but there may be parts of the country where it is not normal fare.My wife spent 15 years in Australia with me and when she got together with her Thai friends over there,chickens feet was one of the things that was nearly always on the menu.Can't eat them myself.

My wife's family are very prone to eating chicken's feet. Not partial to them myself, its the toe nails I find hard to digest

[TomTao]

I don't have any intention to eat chicken feet (or any other culinary oddities) nor will I ever ride (or be a passenger on) a motorbike.

I do though try to understand and be respectful towards Thai culture and social norms. For example, I try to remember not to hold my wife's hand in public.

In Thailand you can hold your wife's hand. But you should not hold another man's hand or hug etc.

And Thai don't normally eat Chicken feet.

I've found that Thai people do eat chickens feet.They are in most wet markets i've seen but there may be parts of the country where it is not normal fare.My wife spent 15 years in Australia with me and when she got together with her Thai friends over there,chickens feet was one of the things that was nearly always on the menu.Can't eat them myself.

My wife's family are very prone to eating chicken's feet. Not partial to them myself, its the toe nails I find hard to digest

Don't forget blood, intestines and liver, can't stand any of them myself, but the wife does enjoy stripping chicken feet down to the bone as often as possible.

[Ron19]

If integating means eating blood,intestines,liver and chickens feet,you can count me out.

[marshbags]

When I first came here the answer would have been a yes.

After many set backs and disappointments I have gradually gone towards a definitive NO.

I really am a free and easy spirit and non racial in the flesh but feel it is best to keep ones sanity by doing my own thing while remaining open minded to the few that do not contradict my preferred lifestyle.

Politics being a definite No No and having not only Thai but Farang trying to force their opinions on me and getting ar*ey and offended when I voice otherwise.

Thanks for the opportunity to vote on the subject J.T. and while I,m at it your much appreciated contributions to the forum.

marshbags

[Jingthing]

This used to be a POLL. What happened to the POLL? I set this up as a POLL. Now it appears missing. What's the hap?

[Beetlejuice]

YES – I still believe in the old saying; as in Rome, do what the Romans do and I try my best as a foreigner to fit in and adapt to Thai attitudes and assimilate into the culture as much as possible, although I am still proud of my heritage and have no desires to be a wanabe Thai.

I don`t believe it is possible for first generation farangs to fully integrate into Thai society, mainly because the Thai authorities make it extremely difficult to do so, plus it is not so easy to shake off our own cultures and way of life in an instant.

The true integration will take place with our children, the next generations that are born and bred in Thailand, as is normally been the case of immigrants throughout history around the world providing that they are not too separated by they’re own self imposed religious and cultural beliefs, but that`s another story, so it`s not all cut and dry with everybody and more to this than a simple yes and no answer.

Anyway it`s a good thought provoking thread.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[cdnvic]

This used to be a POLL. What happened to the POLL? I set this up as a POLL. Now it appears missing. What's the hap?

I can't find anything in the logs. Will see if an admin can see more. I wonder if the upgrade glitched it? (It happens sometimes unfortunately)

[Tywais]

This used to be a POLL. What happened to the POLL? I set this up as a POLL. Now it appears missing. What's the hap?

Don't know what happened but the Poll Title was missing. I put a title in and it now is showing again. Possibly a change in poll setup from the last upgrade.

//update - known bug that will be corrected in the next upgrade.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Tywais
update

[cooked]

The words 'attune' and harmonise' seem more appropriate or usable than 'integrate'. I was an outsider all my life and I can recommend it.

The question of 'Thainess' has been raised. No such thing, this term was formulated to promote political unity in the '70s. 'Thainess'?

Hill tribes in the north, refugees along the borders, sea gypsies, Muslims, Isaan peasants, Bankgok Hi-Sos and Lo-Sos, Pattaya punks - don't worry about it, none of these groups would feel 'integrated' outside of their native society, especially refugees.

Walking around with your beer gut hanging out, coming to Thailand and then insist on eating the same food as mummy used to cook, finding reasons not to learn Thai... etc... is just childish behaviour and will not lead to harmony, which is what 'Thainess' is, or should, be about.

[StreetCowboy]

The words 'attune' and harmonise' seem more appropriate or usable than 'integrate'. I was an outsider all my life and I can recommend it.

The question of 'Thainess' has been raised. No such thing, this term was formulated to promote political unity in the '70s. 'Thainess'?

Hill tribes in the north, refugees along the borders, sea gypsies, Muslims, Isaan peasants, Bankgok Hi-Sos and Lo-Sos, Pattaya punks - don't worry about it, none of these groups would feel 'integrated' outside of their native society, especially refugees.

Walking around with your beer gut hanging out, coming to Thailand and then insist on eating the same food as mummy used to cook, finding reasons not to learn Thai... etc... is just childish behaviour and will not lead to harmony, which is what 'Thainess' is, or should, be about.

I think a lot of us have trouble integrating with the human race, let alone specifically Thais. We seem unable to comment on one another without conjuring up prejorative images in order to look down on our fellow men.

Fortunately, a polite upbringing regarding the use of foul and abusive language generally prevents me from describing my fellows as I see them

SC

[letitbe]

No. I'm the only farang in my part of town and the cultural difference between me and the Thais is what makes things interesting; my neighbours seem to view me as some sort of flawed exotic and I'm happy to go along with that. My goal is not to integrate with, but to happily exist alongside the natives, and I'd much rather have Thais as neighbours than those sanctimonious little sh*ts who come here and kid themselves they've integrated.

mine just think im crazy but I thought I was only forang living with thais who dont want to integrate and those sanctimonious little sh*ts who come here and kid themselves they've integrated. Spot on

[Longbow212]

Like many others here I put a lot of effort into integrating when I first came. Being from the UK I understand full well the resentment caused by immigrants choosing not to integrate and I did not wish to follow suit. I also believe it is the proper and respectful thing to do for your host country. As my language skills got better and with more experience I began to realise it just would not happen. The to final straw for me was being away with a group of all thai friends and being singled out to pay more on several occasions because of my race despite ID and paperwork showing I live, work and pay tax here and negotiating in Thai with them. Even my friends kicked up a fuss about how racist it was. This caused me much disappointment and resentment considering the efforts i have made to integrate which I now take in my stride and accept as part of life here.

The majority or Thai people are very decent in my experience, it is the system that is xenophobic and paranoid. You would never be accepted here (apart from people that know you) because of you physical appearance, you might as well be from another planet to them. Going about my daily activities I see people in my community, they look back and just see a foreigner, an outsider not always in a nasty way but just different and not belonging. They are even racist against their own people. I have really started to question my future here and if I should even start a family when no matter how hard I try I would never be accepted or sufficient rights to take care of my family. I am a guest here, treated well but just a guest nonetheless.

I have integrated as much as is possible and would be willing to go further possibly gaining citizenship if it meant I did not have to renounce my UK passport. I love Thailand but I have to accept I will always be an outsider here.

[flying]

You would never be accepted here (apart from people that know you) because of you physical appearance,

Going about my daily activities I see people in my community, they look back and just see a foreigner, an outsider not always in a nasty way but just different and not belonging.

I have found this to be pretty much true where ever I am in the world.

A stranger is an outsider in any *community*

As you said they do not look in a nasty way but do take notice of something being out of place.

Also as you say...."Apart for the folks you know" you are not openly accepted

Same as anywhere really....for me anyway

I usually have a small circle of folks I trust & that is because I know them.

I know they feel the same about me.

I guess as others have said..to some degree a immigrant is always an immigrant

but it has not really bothered me because aside from the folks within my circle I do not worry about

the others.

Edited June 29, 2012 by flying

[NCFC]

Can't answer your question. Integration to me is a strategy and not a goal in itself

[travelmann]

This used to be a POLL. What happened to the POLL? I set this up as a POLL. Now it appears missing. What's the hap?

I said NO

[Jingthing]

This used to be a POLL. What happened to the POLL? I set this up as a POLL. Now it appears missing. What's the hap?

I said NO

The poll was restored by fabuloso moderating team here. No worries.

[F1fanatic]

This used to be a POLL. What happened to the POLL? I set this up as a POLL. Now it appears missing. What's the hap?

Don't know what happened but the Poll Title was missing. I put a title in and it now is showing again. Possibly a change in poll setup from the last upgrade.

//update - known bug that will be corrected in the next upgrade.

Poll put back v quickly. Sorry to go off-topic for a minute, but would you mind having a word with the NatWest bank to explain how it is done?! My ibanking account is still not showing any balance and I am still unable to transfer any bloody funds .

[McMagus]

Sat in a hotel restaurant once, couldn't help but overhear an Englishman and his wife complaining about the food.

''an ye can't even get proper bacon in this country, not like back 'ome.' Eventually we asked them .. 'Is this your first time in Thailand?' ..... Answer ... 'oh no coom baack 'ere every year we do, don't we love..every year'.

Need to integrate a bit more.

[Jingthing]

Sat in a hotel restaurant once, couldn't help but overhear an Englishman and his wife complaining about the food.

''an ye can't even get proper bacon in this country, not like back 'ome.' Eventually we asked them .. 'Is this your first time in Thailand?' ..... Answer ... 'oh no coom baack 'ere every year we do, don't we love..every year'.

Need to integrate a bit more.

I don't think that has anything to do with integration. Anyway, they're tourists.

[Ron19]

Sat in a hotel restaurant once, couldn't help but overhear an Englishman and his wife complaining about the food.

''an ye can't even get proper bacon in this country, not like back 'ome.' Eventually we asked them .. 'Is this your first time in Thailand?' ..... Answer ... 'oh no coom baack 'ere every year we do, don't we love..every year'.

Need to integrate a bit more.

Sounds a bit like these.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Ron19

[lujanit]

Maybe early on but not now. Anyway most Thai's will never see you as one of them. Respect them and their culture; no more

[Jingthing]

This blog addresses the question rather directly. His response is to leave Thailand:

http://two.cedonulli.com/2012/06/why-im-leaving-thailand/