Phuket Opinion: Corruption And The Duality Of Man

[Lite Beer]

Phuket Opinion: Corruption and the duality of man

Phuket Gazette –

When corruption rides high, sustainable tourism rides low.

PHUKET: Every now and then, local officials do things that either stun Phuket Gazette’s readers or slide right past them. The news stories this week about the push to establish a “Chalong Hospital” and the projected opening of the Patong Tunnel both highlight a phenomenon often overlooked – that sometimes officials have the public interest at heart.

Local authorities pushing to upgrade the Chalong public health clinic deserve credit. The officials give as their reason a motive of the highest order: People in need of emergency medical care in the southern reaches of the island are dying in transit before reaching major hospitals located in Phuket Town.

These officials are lobbying the Ministry of Public Health to “bend a few rules” to make the Chalong Hospital project a reality. They have already been given Cabinet approval, at least “in principal”, to establish the country’s first subdistrict-level government hospital. The are also moving forward in another key area: acquiring the needed land and lining up private investment.

Similar refinements are at work in the Patong Tunnel project, which when completed would become the first tollway built by the Expressway Authority of Thailand (EXAT) to not only allow motorbikes, but provide them with a dedicated lane for added safety. Let’s just hope toll collectors can bar entry to illegally-modified motorbikes like salaeng and the other contraptions that cause so many unnecessary accidents year-in and year-out.

If online forum comments posted by the Gazette’s most cynical readers are any indication, many foreigners read into such infrastructure developments first and foremost a hidden agenda of corruption, with officials railroading projects through as a way of feathering their own nests.

Cynics tend to portray official corruption as an everyday fact of life on the island. The reality, however, is that very few law-abiding people suffer at the hands of corrupt officials on a regular basis. The average resident is only confronted by graft at certain critical junctures, but this is often enough to reinforce the impression that official corruption is more widespread than it actually is. The sad result is that many honest, well-intentioned officials are also assumed to be on the take.

A topic seldom discussed in forum discussions is the extent to which official corruption exists in the foreigners’ home countries, especially where large government contracts are involved.

For some reason, some foreigners seem so attached to a cynical view of life that they tend to forget that few people are truly good or truly evil, and that most will go out of their way to do the right thing if the opportunity presents itself — public officials included.

Source:http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/articles/2012/article16198.html

-- Phuket Gazette 2012-06-17

[LivinginKata]

" that sometimes officials have the public interest at heart."

Pardon my cynicism, seems to me to be more about the percentage kick backs.

[stevenl]

"Cynics tend to portray official corruption as an everyday fact of life on the island. The reality, however, is that very few law-abiding people suffer at the hands of corrupt officials on a regular basis."

I have never suffered at the hands of corrupt officials, even stronger, I have never paid any official anything that was not an official payment.

[TomTao]

It seems the article was written by an apologist trying to make the mud of corruption look like clear water, yes our own countries have corrution, especially where government mega projects are concerned, but it is nowhere near as badly endemic as it is here.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[NamKangMan]

"Cynics tend to portray official corruption as an everyday fact of life on the island. The reality, however, is that very few law-abiding people suffer at the hands of corrupt officials on a regular basis."

I have never suffered at the hands of corrupt officials, even stronger, I have never paid any official anything that was not an official payment.

"I have never suffered at the hands of corrupt officials" - Let's take a simple beer in a beer bar as an example. Don't you think the amount of "tea money" that the owner of the bar has to pay every month is not factored into the cost of that beer in his bar???? If you buy a beer, does not a small percentage of the cost of that beer go to a corrupt official????

You fail to see the big picture. As the base consumers, we are all pretty much contributing to the endemic corruption here, just by being here and going about our daily lives. You don't have to make a corrupt payment, or pay a bribe, to be effected by corruption. Indirectly, we are all contributing to corruption here. You may not financially "suffer" - but you are still paying the price of corruption.

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

Edited June 17, 2012 by NamKangMan

[stevenl]

Oh, and Iceman, I presume you are responding to me, because you do that all the time. Don't bother though, you're on my ignorelist so I can't see your posts anymore. And I must say, ever since you're on that list I am a much happier poster here .

Edited June 17, 2012 by stevenl

[HongKongPhooey]

"Cynics tend to portray official corruption as an everyday fact of life on the island. The reality, however, is that very few law-abiding people suffer at the hands of corrupt officials on a regular basis."

I have never suffered at the hands of corrupt officials, even stronger, I have never paid any official anything that was not an official payment.

That's just it, none of the people who harp on about it ever have, and the vast majority of them aren't business owners like yourself either, just people sitting on a bar stool moaning about corruption for the lack of anything better to talk about.

P.S Did you see this post? I hope I'm not on your ignore list as well? As one of the very few voices of logic and reason on here, the rejection of being ignored by you would be too much, I would have to leave the forum for good.

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

[silsburyhill]

"Cynics tend to portray official corruption as an everyday fact of life on the island. The reality, however, is that very few law-abiding people suffer at the hands of corrupt officials on a regular basis."

I have never suffered at the hands of corrupt officials, even stronger, I have never paid any official anything that was not an official payment.

That's just it, none of the people who harp on about it ever have, and the vast majority of them aren't business owners like yourself either, just people sitting on a bar stool moaning about corruption for the lack of anything better to talk about.

P.S Did you see this post? I hope I'm not on your ignore list as well? As one of the very few voices of logic and reason on here, the rejection of being ignored by you would be too much, I would have to leave the forum for good.

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

You don't get out much, do you. Quite possibly evidenced by your daily long winded posts.

[LivinginKata]

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKP ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

[NamKangMan]

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKP ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

I'll assume your post was aimed at me. (either Hong Kong Man HKM or Hong Kang Man HKM)

The last few nights I went out on Bangla Road were the quietest I have ever seen. This is probably the lowest, low season I've ever experienced, natural disasters aside. So, I have been out lately and, in my estimate, crowd numbers are down.

Sure, there are more Russians, Korean, Chinese and Indians walking around, but they are not spending. Some hotels, offering their accommodation to this demographic in a holiday package, have reasonable occupancy rates, hoping they will spend in their inhouse restaurant or bar, but most small hotel, guest house and bar owners tell me times are tough.

Also, the bad publicity from the many deaths of foreigners, and the violence and theft against foreigners is keeping the traditional western return visitor away. Some are chosing to holiday in other countries, while many are chosing to holiday in other destinations in Thailand. Phuket's loss is their competitions gain, not that those in charge here care, just keep putting up the rent/tea money etc to make the same profits.

If tourism is so sustainable here, and sustainable tourism bring profits for small business, why are there so many bars, guest houses and properties for sale on Phuket at the moment, particularly properties???? Further to this, they are still building more and more.

The "tourist baht" can only be divided so much.

Just calling as I see it, LIK. I have no business or property interests here, therefore, unlike some members of this forum, no conflict of interests.

[HongKongPhooey]

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKP ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

I spend almost every day out and about when I'm in Phuket (9 months last year) probably slightly less this year.

Unlike 'NKM' who doesn't have a car and had never even seen the BIS, (Yes that one again ) I'm out and about every day, I get to every corner of the island. regularly.

Are the tourists numbers down this year over last year then? Have more businesses gone bust his year than last? What evidence is there that the tourist industry can't be sustained. Whatever it is I don't see it when I'm out and about having fun. Perhaps you don't notice when you're having fun, you only see it when you're propping up a bar and moaning. (Not you personally of course)

Edited June 17, 2012 by HongKongPhooey

[TomTao]

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKM ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

I'll assume your post was aimed at me. (either Hong Kong Man HKM or Hong Kang Man HKM)

The last few nights I went out on Bangla Road were the quietest I have ever seen. This is probably the lowest, low season I've ever experienced, natural disasters aside. So, I have been out lately and, in my estimate, crowd numbers are down.

Sure, there are more Russians, Korean, Chinese and Indians walking around, but they are not spending. Some hotels, offering their accommodation to this demographic in a holiday package, have reasonable occupancy rates, hoping they will spend in their inhouse restaurant or bar, but most small hotel, guest house and bar owners tell me times are tough.

Also, the bad publicity from the many deaths of foreigners, and the violence and theft against foreigners is keeping the traditional western return visitor away. Some are chosing to holiday in other countries, while many are chosing to holiday in other destinations in Thailand. Phuket's loss is their competitions gain, not that those in charge here care, just keep putting up the rent/tea money etc to make the same profits.

If tourism is so sustainable here, and sustainable tourism bring profits for small business, why are there so many bars, guest houses and properties for sale on Phuket at the moment, particularly properties???? Further to this, they are still building more and more.

The "tourist baht" can only be divided so much.

Just calling as I see it, LIK. I have no business or property interests here, therefore, unlike some members of this forum, no conflict of interests.

My wife and I are in Phuket at the moment, some shop owners and a couple of vendors have told my wife that they have never seen Phuket as quiet as it is at the moment, and some of them are worried.

I should add that the reasons for the low low season the locals who have spoken to my wife give are violence against tourists, scams and tuk tuks.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited June 17, 2012 by TomTao

[LivinginKata]

@HKP

You seem to be missing the point here. Let's review NKM's post ...

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As it happens I really believe that statement. That's why the Tuk Tuks, Jet Skis, BIB, Tesiban are allowed to run rough shod (some might say shot gun) over the average tourist and long term resident and even local Thais. Personally I have little contact or problem with these influential people. Although we have a business here we are lucky enough to be located away from the main streets and try hard to keep low profile. Open a simple shop or front line business (especially a pub or massage place) and just wait for the heavies to roll along looking for their cut. This 'cost' is passed on to the punters. Try to park on a public road that is 'owned' by the taxi mafia, wow wait for the sparks to fly. I could easily give more examples, been covered so many times here on the Phuket Forum. I just wonder why HKP even tries to defend this.

[NamKangMan]

@ HKP

It is true, I do not own a car, but I've rode past the BIS several times. I have never been inside the grounds, like I said, I have no need to and will never have the need to in the future. So, as admitted, I know nothing about the place.

How do you get to all four corners of the island? Phuket is not square. :)

You probably don't see what is repelling the majority of tourist because you are too busy having fun on your own holiday, after all, you don't actually live here, do you? :) :)

What you, and some others fail to realise, is corruption just gets BIGGER, and never SMALLER. It's that human nature thing called, GREED. Have you heard of it before? That means demands for corrupt payments get bigger in size and more frequent and/or the bribe/protection costs demanded get bigger in size and more frequent. All of these costs are pasted onto the consumer/tourist.

In between all of the above are people "pushing the boundaries" of who they can pay off to get away with whatever they want. Add to that drug use, and drug dealing, and ever increasing theft, violence and the usual "protected" scams, rip offs and extortions proliferating, and the whole thing spirals out of control.

With no proper policing and judicial system, who, and how, is it ever cleaned up? It's not, so it gets worse and worse.

Below is the definition of greed, taken from an online dictionary.

GREED:

"An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth."

[NamKangMan]

@HKP

You seem to be missing the point here. Let's review NKM's post ...

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As it happens I really believe that statement. That's why the Tuk Tuks, Jet Skis, BIB, Tesiban are allowed to run rough shod (some might say shot gun) over the average tourist and long term resident and even local Thais. Personally I have little contact or problem with these influential people. Although we have a business here we are lucky enough to be located away from the main streets and try hard to keep low profile. Open a simple shop or front line business (especially a pub or massage place) and just wait for the heavies to roll along looking for their cut. This 'cost' is passed on to the punters. Try to park on a public road that is 'owned' by the taxi mafia, wow wait for the sparks to fly. I could easily give more examples, been covered so many times here on the Phuket Forum. I just wonder why HKP even tries to defend this.

What I find interesting of late is, for example, the 12 bar owners being arrested for opening on Buddha Day and the several bar owners being fined 25,000 baht for having the football on in their bar.

"Tea money" is not only for "protection" but also for information. Eg. you can't open tomorrow because it's a Buddha Day, or, don't show the football tomorrow because they are making inspections.

Looks like it's creeping in that you have to pay "tea money" but police are still going to raid you and arrest and/or fine you for any little thing. In business terms, many are not getting value for their tea money these days. :) :)

Like I said, it will only get worse, not any better.

[HongKongPhooey]

@HKP

You seem to be missing the point here. Let's review NKM's post ...

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As it happens I really believe that statement. That's why the Tuk Tuks, Jet Skis, BIB, Tesiban are allowed to run rough shod (some might say shot gun) over the average tourist and long term resident and even local Thais. Personally I have little contact or problem with these influential people. Although we have a business here we are lucky enough to be located away from the main streets and try hard to keep low profile. Open a simple shop or front line business (especially a pub or massage place) and just wait for the heavies to roll along looking for their cut. This 'cost' is passed on to the punters. Try to park on a public road that is 'owned' by the taxi mafia, wow wait for the sparks to fly. I could easily give more examples, been covered so many times here on the Phuket Forum. I just wonder why HKP even tries to defend this.

I'm not missing the point, I didn't disagree with any of the tea money, corruption, influential family stuff did I. I disagreed with the statement tourism is unsustainable. Please tell me what evidence to show that tourism won't be booming in 10 years time. The usual "Oh isn't this low season more quiet than ever" stuff that we hear every year isn't what I would call proof. I have denied nothing you have just said in that post, and I haven't defended it either. It is what it is.

Let's look at it another way. If I'm wrong and you are all right, and what you say is obvious, then isn't everybody on this forum constantly making posts stating the obvious. What's the point in that? If it's so obvious why say it over and over again. Why act surprised like it's an amazing revelation and get all het up and flustered every time a new story comes on here. Like I said before, people on this forum remind me of the character in "50 first dates" where she wakes up every morning with no memory of who she is and anything that's ever happened before. Every morning it must be.. "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never". "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never". "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never"

[HongKongPhooey]

It is true, I do not own a car, but I've rode past the BIS several times. I have never been inside the grounds, like I said, I have no need to and will never have the need to in the future. So, as admitted, I know nothing about the place.

If that was the truth why did you say this, word for word on another thread:

Didn't even know there was a British International School on Phuket. Just googled it and was impressed with what's on their website. If I had young kids on Phuket, I would have no problem sending them there, based on the information on their website.

How can you have ridden past it several times without knowing it was there?

You probably don't see what is repelling the majority of tourist because you are too busy having fun on your own holiday, after all, you don't actually live here, do you?

It is what it is. I spend an average of 9 months per year in Phuket and on average 3 in the UK. Call it living, holidaying, travelling, whatever floats your boat mate, it matters not to me, it is what it is. I bet I spend more time here than most people who work offshore. If you join "steelpulses" gang and try to make that relevant, then like him you are simply highlighting how week your argument is. Not that it ever needs much highlighting.

Anyway, If that makes me a tourist, then I must be in a much better position to discuss life as tourist on Phuket than you then, cos I am one and you aren't.

You didn't answer my question: Are the tourists numbers down this year over last year then? Have more businesses gone bust this year than last? What evidence is there that the tourist industry can't be sustained?

What you, and some others fail to realise, is corruption just gets BIGGER, and never SMALLER. It's that human nature thing called, GREED. Have you heard of it before? That means demands for corrupt payments get bigger in size and more frequent and/or the bribe/protection costs demanded get bigger in size and more frequent. All of these costs are pasted onto the consumer/tourist.

In between all of the above are people "pushing the boundaries" of who they can pay off to get away with whatever they want. Add to that drug use, and drug dealing, and ever increasing theft, violence and the usual "protected" scams, rip offs and extortions proliferating, and the whole thing spirals out of control.

With no proper policing and judicial system, who, and how, is it ever cleaned up? It's not, so it gets worse and worse.

So what exactly is your point. Like I said to "LIK", if what you're saying is true and obvious then why are you saying it again and again and again? Stating the obvious seems like such a wasteful way to spend your time.

So I've read what you've said about corruption, I agree with it. Now what?? Wait 2 days and say it again. Wait for another thread in the news section about it and then get all in a tiz woz and act like it's hot of the press news that we didn't all know about? What exactly is it we are supposed to be doing with the information you have shared?

Edited June 17, 2012 by HongKongPhooey

[NomadJoe]

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKP ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

Lol. No, the problem is HongNamPhouey doesn't have any idea what sustainable tourism is.

Icemans comments are right on.

[NomadJoe]

@HKP

You seem to be missing the point here. Let's review NKM's post ...

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As it happens I really believe that statement. That's why the Tuk Tuks, Jet Skis, BIB, Tesiban are allowed to run rough shod (some might say shot gun) over the average tourist and long term resident and even local Thais. Personally I have little contact or problem with these influential people. Although we have a business here we are lucky enough to be located away from the main streets and try hard to keep low profile. Open a simple shop or front line business (especially a pub or massage place) and just wait for the heavies to roll along looking for their cut. This 'cost' is passed on to the punters. Try to park on a public road that is 'owned' by the taxi mafia, wow wait for the sparks to fly. I could easily give more examples, been covered so many times here on the Phuket Forum. I just wonder why HKP even tries to defend this.

I'm not missing the point, I didn't disagree with any of the tea money, corruption, influential family stuff did I. I disagreed with the statement tourism is unsustainable. Please tell me what evidence to show that tourism won't be booming in 10 years time. The usual "Oh isn't this low season more quiet than ever" stuff that we hear every year isn't what I would call proof. I have denied nothing you have just said in that post, and I haven't defended it either. It is what it is.

Let's look at it another way. If I'm wrong and you are all right, and what you say is obvious, then isn't everybody on this forum constantly making posts stating the obvious. What's the point in that? If it's so obvious why say it over and over again. Why act surprised like it's an amazing revelation and get all het up and flustered every time a new story comes on here. Like I said before, people on this forum remind me of the character in "50 first dates" where she wakes up every morning with no memory of who she is and anything that's ever happened before. Every morning it must be.. "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never". "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never". "Corruption and greed, what on Phuket!! Well I never"

What a silly comment your last paragraph, even for you. Who is acting surprised? Some of the things that go on on this island are certainly worth getting "het up" about, unless you just don't really care about anything at all. Lot's of people are self-absorbed like that. But these things you don't see or know about, or refuse to believe exist, they are simply wrong and can over time be changed. Ignoring them as you suggest is not the answer.

This same tired argument is made endlessly on here. BTB used to do the exact same thing. Next will be "then why don't you so something about it instead of just posting on a forum if you care so much about it." Some of us do.

[HongKongPhooey]

Phuket is pretty much run by a corrupt regime of families and authorities, and the way they are administering tourism here is unsustainable by global tourism destination standards. It is most evident in the laughable transport system here.

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKP ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

Lol. No, the problem is HongNamPhouey doesn't have any idea what sustainable tourism is.

Icemans comments are right on.

I know exactly what it means and I believe it is just as sustainable now as it was 10 years ago. I dare say I will be telling you the same thing in ten years time as well, when you and others will still be whining like a broken record.

[NomadJoe]

So what exactly is your point. Like I said to "LIK", if what you're saying is true and obvious then why are you saying it again and again and again? Stating the obvious seems like such a wasteful way to spend your time.

Shifting the debate from the issues to the debate itself is the first sign of defeat. Fox News does this routinely.

So I've read what you've said about corruption, I agree with it. Now what?? Wait 2 days and say it again. Wait for another thread in the news section about it and then get all in a tiz woz and act like it's hot of the press news that we didn't all know about? What exactly is it we are supposed to be doing with the information you have shared?

Again, I love when the arguement shifts away from the issue and towards the arguement itself. Reminds me of good old BTB.

If you must, you write about it again, and again, and again if you need to. You write your embassies, you write your local officials, your write the local and national media as many of us have. It's called civic duty. Expats and tourist voices are heard, as this article shows, and when we speak in chorus inevitably people listen.

Your suggestion then is to lay down and accept things as they are? How can anyone in their right mind suggest that?

[NomadJoe]

As I always ask you 'NKM' when is this unsustainability due to start. Over 12 years of visiting and living in Phuket I'm yet to see any signs of it.

Do you really believe that HKP ?? All I can say is that you must not have got out and about very much.

Lol. No, the problem is HongNamPhouey doesn't have any idea what sustainable tourism is.

Icemans comments are right on.

I know exactly what it means and I believe it is just as sustainable now as it was 10 years ago. I dare say I will be telling you the same thing in ten years time as well, when you and others will still be whining like a broken record.

Your posts clearly show you do not know what it means. You asked earlier when will you see signs of this unsustainable tourism. lol You haven't got a clue mate. Go study up and then come back after you have got one.

[HongKongPhooey]

What a silly comment your last paragraph, even for you. Who is acting surprised? Some of the things that go on on this island are certainly worth getting "het up" about, unless you just don't really care about anything at all. Lot's of people are self-absorbed like that. But these things you don't see or know about, or refuse to believe exist, they are simply wrong and can over time be changed. Ignoring them as you suggest is not the answer.

This same tired argument is made endlessly on here. BTB used to do the exact same thing. Next will be "then why don't you so something about it instead of just posting on a forum if you care so much about it." Some of us do.

Yes I remember your underground anti Tuk Tuk movement you started, and where everybody who didn't have a problem with them was accused of having a tuk tuk driver as a father in law. How have you changed things so far then.

You are about the third person on this thread that can't follow simple English. I have not denied anything, I have not said that I don't see or know anything about it or refuse to accept it exists.

I have just said to 'NKM', I agree with everything you say, now what? What happens now, what changes? Things are the way they are, they were the way they were last year when you were whining and they will be the way they are next year when you will still be whining.

I may start an undercover "anti whining movement"

Edited June 17, 2012 by HongKongPhooey

[NomadJoe]

Cynics tend to portray official corruption as an everyday fact of life on the island. The reality, however, is that very few law-abiding people suffer at the hands of corrupt officials on a regular basis.

I have never suffered at the hands of corrupt officials, even stronger, I have never paid any official anything that was not an official payment.

I can think of two examples off the top of my head. Evertime you drive on the clogged roads here you suffer at the hands of corrupt officials which do not allow reasonable, affordable transport. When you put customers on a seangteaw to go diving you suffer at the hands of corrupt police which charge a fee for dive trucks that pass though Chalong circle and the "extras" the people running the pier charge the shops for access.

[NomadJoe]

What a silly comment your last paragraph, even for you. Who is acting surprised? Some of the things that go on on this island are certainly worth getting "het up" about, unless you just don't really care about anything at all. Lot's of people are self-absorbed like that. But these things you don't see or know about, or refuse to believe exist, they are simply wrong and can over time be changed. Ignoring them as you suggest is not the answer.

This same tired argument is made endlessly on here. BTB used to do the exact same thing. Next will be "then why don't you so something about it instead of just posting on a forum if you care so much about it." Some of us do.

Yes I remember your underground anti Tuk Tuk movement you started, and where everybody who didn't have a problem with them was accused of having a tuk tuk driver as a father in law. How have changed things so far then.

You are about the third person on this thread that can't follow simple English. I have not denied anything, I have not said that I don't see or know anything about it or refuse to accept it exists.

I have just said to 'NKM', I agree with everything you say, now what? What happens now, what changes? Things are the way they are, they were the way they were last year when you were whining and they will be the way they are next year when you will still be whining.

I may start an undercover "anti whining movement"

What a poor memory you have. The one person making silly opposition statements suspiciously similar to they way you are now admitted himself he had an in-law that drove tuk tuks. No one else was accused.

It will hard to start a movement with your head buried so far up your....er....in the sand.

[HongKongPhooey]

Your suggestion then is to lay down and accept things as they are? How can anyone in their right mind suggest that?

Because I love the way things are. The only laying down I do is on the beach.

Your posts clearly show you do not know what it means. You asked earlier when will you see signs of this unsustainable tourism. lol You haven't got a clue mate. Go study up and then come back after you have got one.

"Sustainable tourism is tourism attempting to make as low impact on the environment and local culture as possible, while helping to generate future employment for local people. The aim of sustainable tourism is to ensure that development brings a positive experience for local people, tourism companies and the tourists themselves. Sustainable tourism is not the same as ecotourism."

Like I said, to what are they referring when they say that tourism here is unsustainable. I don't agree and and don't see anything when I'm out and about that makes me change my mind. What exactly about that doesn't make sense to you and makes you think I don't understand what it means.

Edited June 17, 2012 by LivinginKata
insult removed

[bubblegum]

So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

[HongKongPhooey]

So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

It's the way things are and always have been. People accept it or they moan about it. That's ranting about corruption on a forum in a nutshell.

[NomadJoe]

So what does all of this ranting have to do with corruption ?

It's the way things are and always have been. People accept it or they moan about it. That's ranting about corruption on a forum in a nutshell.

Not it hasn't. Those of us that have been here 10+ years like steelpulse, lik, stevenl and many others realize how much worse it has gotten. You obviously haven't lived/been visiting here for very long. These comments clearly show that because you don't personally see the problem (or possibly you enjoy the benefits of it) you don't believe it exists.

[NomadJoe]

Your suggestion then is to lay down and accept things as they are? How can anyone in their right mind suggest that?

Because I love the way things are. The only laying down I do is on the beach.

Your posts clearly show you do not know what it means. You asked earlier when will you see signs of this unsustainable tourism. lol You haven't got a clue mate. Go study up and then come back after you have got one.

"Sustainable tourism is tourism attempting to make as low impact on the environment and local culture as possible, while helping to generate future employment for local people. The aim of sustainable tourism is to ensure that development brings a positive experience for local people, tourism companies and the tourists themselves. Sustainable tourism is not the same as ecotourism."

Like I said, to what are they referring when they say that tourism here is unsustainable. I don't agree and and don't see anything when I'm out and about that makes me change my mind. What exactly about that doesn't make sense to you and makes you think I don't understand what it means.

I know you don't understand what sustainable tourism means because you don't understand that practically every other article in the news relates to it. Transport problems, pollution,overbuilding, scams, traffic, etc etc.

Edited June 17, 2012 by LivinginKata
off topic exchange removed