Cover Up? Australian Kickboxer 'Savagely Bashed In Phuket'

[Justaword]

If the truth be told, it's not anybodies business if he had travel insurance or not. That's not what this news article is all about. But I guess it's good for the count!

There are two news articles in this thread, one mentioning the Facebook raising funds page, denoting that there is probably an insurance issue. So, no, it's not off topic at all, and discussing about it may increase people awareness about coverage issues.

[coma]

It is a failure because as I put it before, Do you see scrapes and abrasions all over his body that would be consistant with a motorbike accident ?

It is easily possible to have a motorbike accident without the scrapes and bruises over the whole body. It can be very localised, like face and skull, see examples given here by others. I don't know what exactly happened, but the presumption 'no roadrash so no accident so a beatup' is ludicrous.

Yes. I see that some posters are of the same opinion as yourself. And I guess anything is possible. But to add weight to mine and many others point of view is right there in the OP. Even the doctors that treated him believe that the injuries are not from a motorbike accident. I did read another particularly interesting post / observation by another member about the markings on his neck. As if he had been head locked or his shirt and been ripped up around his neck.

Er, what?

"The people at the hospital and the police are saying the injuries are more consistent with running into a pole than being attacked," he said.

From the OP and a source linked. Maybe time to get the reading glasses on?

No one can diagnose what happened to this man from a photo on a forum. It'd be curlish to do so. I doubt even one of us is qualified and you'd need to see him in person to really know.

Just show the bike already. Formerly working in claims I could give a qualified opinion on that.

Put your own reading glasses on and read this from the OP .

While Thai police maintain the 21-year-old crashed his motorcycle into a pole near Soi Saiyuan in Naiham, his family, friends and doctors all believe Mr Ketley was bashed, an episode in an explosion of violence against tourists on Phuket.

I would give more weight to the doctors that the BIB. But that is just me.

[stevenl]

It is a failure because as I put it before, Do you see scrapes and abrasions all over his body that would be consistant with a motorbike accident ?

It is easily possible to have a motorbike accident without the scrapes and bruises over the whole body. It can be very localised, like face and skull, see examples given here by others. I don't know what exactly happened, but the presumption 'no roadrash so no accident so a beatup' is ludicrous.

Yes. I see that some posters are of the same opinion as yourself. And I guess anything is possible. But to add weight to mine and many others point of view is right there in the OP. Even the doctors that treated him believe that the injuries are not from a motorbike accident. I did read another particularly interesting post / observation by another member about the markings on his neck. As if he had been head locked or his shirt and been ripped up around his neck.

First of all, I never said he was beaten or had an accident, all I said was that the reasoning 'no roadrash so no accident' is ludicrous.

Secondly, in the original report it clearly stated that the staff at the hospital was of the opinion that it was an accident. So where you got the idea the doctors said something different I don't know.

Edit, now I know where you got that opinion, but reading things in context it is clear to me that the emergency medical services thought from the injuries sustained: accident.

Edited June 22, 2012 by stevenl

[coma]

It is a failure because as I put it before, Do you see scrapes and abrasions all over his body that would be consistant with a motorbike accident ?

It is easily possible to have a motorbike accident without the scrapes and bruises over the whole body. It can be very localised, like face and skull, see examples given here by others. I don't know what exactly happened, but the presumption 'no roadrash so no accident so a beatup' is ludicrous.

Yes. I see that some posters are of the same opinion as yourself. And I guess anything is possible. But to add weight to mine and many others point of view is right there in the OP. Even the doctors that treated him believe that the injuries are not from a motorbike accident. I did read another particularly interesting post / observation by another member about the markings on his neck. As if he had been head locked or his shirt and been ripped up around his neck.

First of all, I never said he was beaten or had an accident, all I said was that the reasoning 'no roadrash so no accident' is ludicrous.

Secondly, in the original report it clearly stated that the staff at the hospital was of the opinion that it was an accident. So where you got the idea the doctors said something different I don't know.

From the OP "While Thai police maintain the 21-year-old crashed his motorcycle into a pole near Soi Saiyuan in Naiham, his family, friends and doctors all believe Mr Ketley was bashed, an episode in an explosion of violence against tourists on Phuket".

Edited June 22, 2012 by coma

[ManInSurat]

Put your own reading glasses on and read this from the OP .

While Thai police maintain the 21-year-old crashed his motorcycle into a pole near Soi Saiyuan in Naiham, his family, friends and doctors all believe Mr Ketley was bashed, an episode in an explosion of violence against tourists on Phuket.

I would give more weight to the doctors that the BIB. But that is just me.

I edited my post before you got this on here.

I see it. I said I saw it. I hold my hands up and stand corrected.

What I said wasn't without merit though.

Now you go to the Gold Coast article, which has already been linked and read what Daniel or his family actually said to the reporter and what the reporter found out for himself.

Article

Freelance journalist Phil Teese lives on Phuket and said despite the family's belief that their son was bashed, emergency authorities were sure Daniel's injuries fitted those of an accident.

"The people at the hospital and the police are saying the injuries are more consistent with running into a pole than being attacked," he said.

I'll take what someone who actually talked to he and his family and the medical staff said over the opinion of the writer of the OP on this forum any day.

Medical staff that saw him first believe he had an RTA. Unless they're part of the cover-up, which is starting to sound silly to me.

As you said yourself... "I would give more weight to the doctors that the BIB. But that is just me."

So would I mate, so would I.

-------

I have had moderate speed crashes hitting the tarmac with no abrasion and motionless falling off a bike that resulted in abrasion.

The statement "All crashes result in road rash and abrasion." is just simply not true.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[hellodolly]

Post #33 mentioned the bike. Here is the link again where the bike gets a mention

http://news.ninemsn....aspx?id=8487202

Here is the pertinent information from that article.

"Police say they cannot investigate any further until Mr Ketley regains his memory of the night but the fighter is sure he did not crash his bike.

"I know I can't have crashed. I know the roads very well, and the damage to my body … if I had crashed I would have put my hands down for sure but they aren't grazed," Mr Ketley told The Phuket News."

Sounds to me like he is very much aware of things if he can access his injuries. As far as knowing the road very well so what. A lot of accidents happen on roads people know very well.

[smedly]

Well I'm 46, have ridden motobikes since i was 12, I can't ever remember in the many times I've dropped a motorbike, not taking any skin off my palms or hands, or elbows.

At the type of speed that would cause those injuries.

Also as mentioned, his injuries aren't consistent with a motorcycle crash.

Maybe it was a deal gone wrong, either drug or some other type. steroid, yaba, that of course is pure speculation, and baseless.

Or perhaps he was seeing a girl he shouldn't have been.

Regardless I wish him well, he is lucky to be alive.

I hope he recovers well, that may be the end of his career as a muay thai fighter though.

I'm not making an argument for or against this story but it all depends in the sort of accident, first of all it does not take a great load of speed if you hit something hard with your head to this sort of damage especially without a helmet - maybe 20kph would be enough and even with a full face helmet they are only designed to offer protection for low impacts, plus it is unlikely he was wearing a full face helmet so these injuries are entirely possible

Most peoples experience with coming off a MB is loss of control and sliding on the ground which as mentioned above will cause road rash and friction burns but not all accidents happen like this, it is possible to lose control while upright and have a head on with a wall or similar solid object, unlikely but possible, it is also stated that there is frontal damage to the MB which would be consistant with a head on collision.

I am not taking sides in this story - just expanding on the possibilities and stating some facts

I hope he has a full recovery and in time will be able to elaborate on what happened

and it didn't imply doctors as such - if you read the article it was a family doctor that implied no accident

I personally am leaning towards accident with a pole as stated, a friend of mine was similarly injued in low impact accident - he remembers nothing about it but the injuries are almost identical - the bottom line here is if he rode head on into a pole there would be no road rash - how could there be ?

Edited June 22, 2012 by smedly

[ManInSurat]

Post #33 mentioned the bike. Here is the link again where the bike gets a mention

http://news.ninemsn....aspx?id=8487202

Here is the pertinent information from that article.

"Police say they cannot investigate any further until Mr Ketley regains his memory of the night but the fighter is sure he did not crash his bike.

"I know I can't have crashed. I know the roads very well, and the damage to my body … if I had crashed I would have put my hands down for sure but they aren't grazed," Mr Ketley told The Phuket News."

Sounds to me like he is very much aware of things if he can access his injuries. As far as knowing the road very well so what. A lot of accidents happen on roads people know very well.

With the greatest respect to Mr Kelty even he admits he has no recollection other than a vague memory of a petrol station.

Again, if he had hit a pole of some kind (which the medical staff who saw him first seem to think), which I see happen a lot, it's very plausible you can sustain injuries from the stationary object and not skid along the tarmac. Although, I'm not qualified to make any diagnosis just from looking at that photo or even if I saw him in person.

Again with respect, to say what you will and won't do in an accident doens't really mean anything. Very few people retain their composure in that instant and instinct takes over.

Knowing the road very well also means absolutely nothing. You cannot account for distractions (animals) and especially in Thailand, the conduct of other drivers on the road who you may have to avoid.

What puzzles me is that he was sober and he has no recollection of kicks and/or punches or flashes of the attack. Whilst the brain is a very unpredictable organ and amnesia like this can happen, I just find it hard to believe you would remember absolutely nothing of it at all. That's quite remarkable.

Like smedley here I'm not "taking a side". I'm saying what I see here.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[bangkokheat]

why would the hospital say that his injuries are consistent with a motorcycle crash when the ambulance picked him up?

Did someone carry him to another location? you would think that the motorbike would still be there, wouldnt you? then you would be able to say he was picked up at the scene of the accident

[smedly]

Look at this guys body, no marks at all. How do you attack a person thats a champion kick boxer and only hit him on the head and right arm without leaving a mark on his body. No way!!! Let's wait and see on this one.

there is an equally contradicting arugment, if he was involved in a fight you'd expect that he was able to retaliate to an extent - there are no marks on his hands consistant with a fight

seems he ran into a pole

[ManInSurat]

why would the hospital say that his injuries are consistent with a motorcycle crash when the ambulance picked him up?

Did someone carry him to another location? you would think that the motorbike would still be there, wouldnt you? then you would be able to say he was picked up at the scene of the accident

Well from reading the OP and the Gold Coast article it would appear they moved him to this private hospital owing to a issue of mistrust.

That's why they've set up a FB donation page to pay for the exorbitant fees.

The original hospital staff or the paramedics on scene seem to think it was an RTA. It's totally plausible the new hospital have said something to the contrary. It'd be really nice to hear what the private hopsital assess as the cause of the injuries.

Surely they'd be able to tell the difference between a sustained attack and hitting a stationary object.

Again from the Gold Coast article

"We have him in a private hospital ... it's not cheap but it is the only one that we trust," he said. (His Dad said.)

I would imagine he was at a state run first and then moved shortly thereafter when the family got a chance to speak to Daniel and found out that he thought something was amiss. It seems they turned their suspicion on the hospital too at that time.

Not trusting a hospital is quite strange. I know corruption is rife, but it's one of the few instiutions that I'd like to believe aren't as bad as all the others.

Having said that, could I imagine a bent doctor in Thailand giving opinions under duress or expectation from the BiB or even corroborating with them? Yes I could. Sadly.

It seems to me the Dad talked to his son and his son is adamant he was attacked.

In that situation I know what I'd do for my boy. I can understand the family's actions here. Very understandable indeed.

Will we ever find out what actually happened? I highly doubt it.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[hansnl]

Farang muay thai boxers have a unforeseen problem insofar as many Thai boxers come from very poor families upcountry and success in the ring is paramount for them and their families. Along come s' rich kid 'farang who stirs the pot. Considering his injuries I wouldnt be surprised if he was set upon by former associates or a recent opponent in the ring.

What condition is his bike in ????

I read that he won several fights?

There you go......

[bangkokheat]

what I also see is that he may have put up his right arm to defend himself from a swinging club or the like, breaking his arm, the stitches i see are also on the right side of his head

[stevenl]

why would the hospital say that his injuries are consistent with a motorcycle crash when the ambulance picked him up?

Did someone carry him to another location? you would think that the motorbike would still be there, wouldnt you? then you would be able to say he was picked up at the scene of the accident

Well from reading the OP and the Gold Coast article it would appear they moved him to this private hospital owing to a issue of mistrust.

That's what they've set up a FB donation page to pay for the exorbitant fees.

The original hospital staff or the paramedics on scene seem to think it was an RTA. It's totally plausible the new hospital have said something to the contrary. It'd be really nice to hear what the private hopsital assess as the cause of the injuries.

Surely they'd be able to tell the difference between a sustained attack and hitting a stationary object.

Again from the Gold Coast article

"We have him in a private hospital ... it's not cheap but it is the only one that we trust," he said. (His Dad said.)

I would imagine he was at a state run first and then moved shortly thereafter when the family got a chance to speak to Daniel and found out that he thought something was amiss.

Not trusting a hospital is quite strange. I know corruption is rife, but it's one of the few instiutions that I'd like to believe aren't as bad as all the other authorities.

Having said that, could I imagine a bent doctor in Thailand giving opinions under duress or expectation from the BiB? Yes I could. Sadly.

I would presume he was first taken to Vachira hospital, and after that on request of the family to a private hospital with a better reputation. I think 'trust has here more to with quality of hospital services than lying/being bent.

[ManInSurat]

why would the hospital say that his injuries are consistent with a motorcycle crash when the ambulance picked him up?

Did someone carry him to another location? you would think that the motorbike would still be there, wouldnt you? then you would be able to say he was picked up at the scene of the accident

Well from reading the OP and the Gold Coast article it would appear they moved him to this private hospital owing to a issue of mistrust.

That's what they've set up a FB donation page to pay for the exorbitant fees.

The original hospital staff or the paramedics on scene seem to think it was an RTA. It's totally plausible the new hospital have said something to the contrary. It'd be really nice to hear what the private hopsital assess as the cause of the injuries.

Surely they'd be able to tell the difference between a sustained attack and hitting a stationary object.

Again from the Gold Coast article

"We have him in a private hospital ... it's not cheap but it is the only one that we trust," he said. (His Dad said.)

I would imagine he was at a state run first and then moved shortly thereafter when the family got a chance to speak to Daniel and found out that he thought something was amiss.

Not trusting a hospital is quite strange. I know corruption is rife, but it's one of the few instiutions that I'd like to believe aren't as bad as all the other authorities.

Having said that, could I imagine a bent doctor in Thailand giving opinions under duress or expectation from the BiB? Yes I could. Sadly.

I would presume he was first taken to Vachira hospital, and after that on request of the family to a private hospital with a better reputation. I think 'trust has here more to with quality of hospital services than lying/being bent.

I can see that. Having had a friend treated for a serious RTA in the Krabi state-run who I moved. Although I did move him to Surat state-run at Sri Wichai (which is excellent and better than the private Thaksin down the road.)

I'd just like to know the context of... "We have him in a private hospital ... it's not cheap but it is the only one that we trust,"

That would clear it up for me.

You're right though, it could be they mean facilities and treatment and it's probably more likely that is what they meant.

Hey, let me have my conspiracy! I mean, what will I do without opining my totally baseless speculation and 100% conjecture on an internet forum?

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[Justaword]

what I also see is that he may have put up his right arm to defend himself from a swinging club or the like, breaking his arm, the stitches i see are also on the right side of his head

Very good observation, indeed.

I would imagine he was at a state run first and then moved shortly thereafter when the family got a chance to speak to Daniel and found out that he thought something was amiss. It seems they turned their suspicion on the hospital too at that time.

Not trusting a hospital is quite strange. I know corruption is rife, but it's one of the few instiutions that I'd like to believe aren't as bad as all the others.

What usually happens in Phuket, is that unconscious foreigner are brought to one of the two private hospitals where staff can speak english. Believe it or not, unless you are on the death row, they will keep you only if they are assured that you, or your insurance, can pay. If not, they will send you to a public hospital, usually Vachira as it's well equipped.

The picture of the victim on his hospital bed has clearly been taken in a public one.

As I understand from the articles and the Facebook page, the victim has been already discharged, and the family is now collecting funds for facial reconstruction in the reputable (and extremely expensive) Bangkok Phuket Hospital.

[marquis22]

Ok very simple. Let's see the motorcycle.

If he did crash it should be evident on the bike.

Excellent point!!

Maybe he doesn't want to lose face if he was 'out' kick-boxed?

[stevenl]

What usually happens in Phuket, is that unconscious foreigner are brought to one of the two private hospitals where staff can speak english.

Depends on which ambulance is there first. If the Vachira is first the victim is taken there, irrespective of if it is a foreigner or Thai. I would guess that about 50% of foreigners is first taken to Vachira, the others to International and Bangkok Phuket. Also Mission Hospital is private BTW, so there are 3 private hospitals on the island.

[ManInSurat]

Ok very simple. Let's see the motorcycle.

If he did crash it should be evident on the bike.

Excellent point!!

Maybe he doesn't want to lose face if he was 'out' kick-boxed?

Too late. He's had to have facial reconstruction to get his face back after he lost it. (Sorry I couldn't resist. No malice intended!)

If those injuries are from a beating, that's not being "outkickboxed" that's a criminal offense and GBH in my book. Knowing the Thai mentality, it's very rarely one-on-one. It's nearly always gangs-on-one.

That's if that even happened. Which no one, but the man involved (amnesia aside) and potential assailants know.

Edited June 22, 2012 by ManInSurat

[Justaword]

What usually happens in Phuket, is that unconscious foreigner are brought to one of the two private hospitals where staff can speak english.

Depends on which ambulance is there first. If the Vachira is first the victim is taken there, irrespective of if it is a foreigner or Thai. I would guess that about 50% of foreigners is first taken to Vachira, the others to International and Bangkok Phuket. Also Mission Hospital is private BTW, so there are 3 private hospitals on the island.

That's correct. But I am not sure Mission deals much with foreigners, as last time I went there I couldn't find anybody speaking english. It has been renovated recently, so it may "compete" now with the two others..

True also that that it depends who arrives on the scene first. If it's a Rescue Association team called by a local, they may take you directly to Vachira, if it's one of the tourist emergency vans parked in Chalong, only a few minutes away from the "accident" scene, they will take you to Phuket International or Bangkok Phuket. But people can also call directly one of the short numbers of a specific hospital, which will then send his own ambulance.his people may or may

Anyway, It's not really relevant, was just pointing out that in a situation like this people may or may not have the choice of the hospital they will be treated at first...

[FritsSikkink]

Weird...........

The embassies need to get their act together and force the Thai police and authorities to protect their citizens.

and protect the Thai people against false rape accusations

[lianab]

What usually happens in Phuket, is that unconscious foreigner are brought to one of the two private hospitals where staff can speak english.

Depends on which ambulance is there first. If the Vachira is first the victim is taken there, irrespective of if it is a foreigner or Thai. I would guess that about 50% of foreigners is first taken to Vachira, the others to International and Bangkok Phuket. Also Mission Hospital is private BTW, so there are 3 private hospitals on the island.

That's correct. But I am not sure Mission deals much with foreigners, as last time I went there I couldn't find anybody speaking english. It has been renovated recently, so it may "compete" now with the two others..

True also that that it depends who arrives on the scene first. If it's a Rescue Association team called by a local, they may take you directly to Vachira, if it's one of the tourist emergency vans parked in Chalong, only a few minutes away from the "accident" scene, they will take you to Phuket International or Bangkok Phuket. But people can also call directly one of the short numbers of a specific hospital, which will then send his own ambulance.his people may or may

Anyway, It's not really relevant, was just pointing out that in a situation like this people may or may not have the choice of the hospital they will be treated at first...

If we had the choice - which should we choose so I can save the phone number?

[stevenl]

What usually happens in Phuket, is that unconscious foreigner are brought to one of the two private hospitals where staff can speak english.

Depends on which ambulance is there first. If the Vachira is first the victim is taken there, irrespective of if it is a foreigner or Thai. I would guess that about 50% of foreigners is first taken to Vachira, the others to International and Bangkok Phuket. Also Mission Hospital is private BTW, so there are 3 private hospitals on the island.

That's correct. But I am not sure Mission deals much with foreigners, as last time I went there I couldn't find anybody speaking english. It has been renovated recently, so it may "compete" now with the two others..

True also that that it depends who arrives on the scene first. If it's a Rescue Association team called by a local, they may take you directly to Vachira, if it's one of the tourist emergency vans parked in Chalong, only a few minutes away from the "accident" scene, they will take you to Phuket International or Bangkok Phuket. But people can also call directly one of the short numbers of a specific hospital, which will then send his own ambulance.his people may or may

Anyway, It's not really relevant, was just pointing out that in a situation like this people may or may not have the choice of the hospital they will be treated at first...

If we had the choice - which should we choose so I can save the phone number?

I have 1719 in my telephone, the alarm number from Bangkok Phuket Hospital. I also have insurance, so I don't have to worry about unpaid bills.

[thaigold]

Just another case of a stranger in a strange land. We wish him and his family good luck.

[Thailion]

I hate to go against the majority of 'experts' on here but felt I would chuck my 2 cents in.

5 years ago next month my brother had a motorcycle accident. Long story short....one evening he was riding along (at approx. 30 kph) when he came across several men welding a chain link fence on his right. After a brief look he started to turn his head back only to find a tree directly in front of him. Obviously not seeing it, he hit direct and his helmetless (if there is such a word) head struck the tree on the left side and threw him onto the grass/dirt to the side. 6 weeks coma, 8 months ICU and a further 2 months doing rehab before being released. My point is he looked similar to this lad with the exception his face was 10 times worse. No injuries to his external body below the neck except for a small scrape on his elbow where he had landed on a stone. His bike had a flat front tire and a smashed mirror when the bike hit the ground. The doctors prognosis is that he will get all of his memory back except for the time directly before and after the accident.

Unfortunately my brothers recovery will take years not months due to the extent of the damage.

My point is simply that looking at the picture itself, it is my opinion that the injuries could of been caused by a motorcycle accident and only based on what I have personally seen. I know that it is silly for me to state in any way that this is fact as every situation is different and this very well may of been caused by a bashing....but for the ones that are stating the there is no way it can be caused from an accident with a pole I would say that it quite easily may of been.

More importantly is the young Fella....I wish you a full and speedy recovery and to your family/friends some peace of mind that you still have your son/friend and appears to be in good hands for his recovery. Something like this is completely heart wrenching to anyone close to the young Fella.

[Justaword]

I have 1719 in my telephone, the alarm number from Bangkok Phuket Hospital. I also have insurance, so I don't have to worry about unpaid bills.

1719, yes, it's both the emergency number of Bangkok Phuket and the number painted on Chalong based ambulances. Just a note: if you really don't want to worry, carry your insurance details with you. In my case I was insured, but as I was still half unconscious when they took me to Bangkok Phuket and unable to show the honey, they sent me straight to Vachira. It's only there than I totally woke up, called friends and asked to be transferred back. For the record, only the doctor at Vachira insisted on an head scan to be sure that there was no internal bleeding after the shock, and that I was safe to go. But this is going off topic....

[TPI]

If you crash your bike and aren't wearing a helmet I doubt any impact damage to your head would cause these type of black eyes, it would either kill you or break your neck. I don't see those big black eyes consistent with crashing a motorbike.

Please state your medical qualifications years, of experience and your medical speciality and how you came to this conclusion... or have just been watching too much CSI.. ?

You obviously have never pranged a motorbike, at any speed!

[smedly]

If you crash your bike and aren't wearing a helmet I doubt any impact damage to your head would cause these type of black eyes, it would either kill you or break your neck. I don't see those big black eyes consistent with crashing a motorbike.

actually a simple broken nose will cause eyes to swell up turn black and possibly even close - thats no trauma to the eyes at all - and if you read the OP you will discover that the injuries to this fellows upper face were quite horrific - so back to the drawing board for you

[Justaword]

Edit: removed post, useless to speculate...

Edited June 22, 2012 by Justaword

[bangkokheat]

I hate to be the devil's advocate, but something puzzle me with the chronology of the events....

dont lose sleep over it, in a land where the left foot dont know what the right foot is doing, its the norm, but come on, please share