Old Expats In Thailand - Possible Hell On Earth?

[falang07]

And if you do not have loads of money when you retire, your freedom will virtually evaporate, and you will be deported to your own country. So much for the freedom here in Thailand Some people do not want to see the reality and live in an illusion. Later, when some shit happens, they are surprised. That is why I am worried about what happens when I retire, soihok. I better plan now than just live in an illusion.

[falang07]

And last but not the least, I get a free health care in my home country back in Europe (not the shitty 20 baht free "paracetamol for everything" Thai version). In here, you are free to die

[crazykopite]

When I wake up every morning I treast it as my last day on this earth and enjoy it .

When I go to bed at night I say to my wife who is English " Lord thank you for Another day in paradise with my beloved "

When the time comes for me to move on to the pastures of the unknown my wife is very much aware of what must be done as I am should my wife depart before me. As a Falang married to a Falang I have to provide evidence that I have a pension of 65,000 bht per month we have two properties by way of a Thai Ltd company which is now over 7 years old so either of us would survive I would never live in Thailand if I could not afford to do so, however I do feel so sorry for all those over 50,/60s that I see pushing a pram in big C or Tesco with a 1 year child . I could think of nothing worse at that age of life !!!!!

[crazykopite]

I've had some experience in working with elderly expats in Chiang Mai. To answer the questions about what happens to the visa if they become ill -- well that can become a problem. As mentioned, 90-day reports can be done by mail and the max fine for failing to do a report is usually 2000 baht if you have a good reason. Most of the private hospitals will take care of doing a 90-day report for a patient, especially if the need is brought to their attention. You may not be able to do that if you're in a coma or otherwise bad off. The public hospital doesn't provide any assistance in doing a 90 day report. The best you can do is to slip a few hundred baht to a friendly nurse and ask her to do it.

As for visa extensions, again that can be a big problem. I've known retired expats who ended up on overstay because their retirement visa extensions expired while they were in hospital, even in a private hospital. These were always expats who were in no shape to realize their visa extension was due and thus, couldn't tell anyone. Once you go onto overstay, you have to leave the country (even briefly) to start the whole process over to get a new retirement visa. If you can't travel, you can get medical extensions for a max of 90 days (1900 extension fee charged every time), but most doctors don't understand the need for doing the paperwork exactly as requested by immigration and/or don't want to commit that you'll be under their care for up to 90 days in the future. This is especially true if you're in a public hospital and seem to be having problems paying your bill. They don't want to be seen as promising that they'll give you care for 90 days.

The moral is to plan ahead. Train a close friend or someone in your household on how to do 90 day reports and visa extensions.

A third party can do a visa extension for someone in the hospital. I've done it several times and all you need is a doctor's letter that the patient is currently in the hospital and get the patient to sign (or thumbprint) a letter authorizing the third party to do the visa extension. Get a few nurses to witness and a few stamps from the hospital. Take that along with a photo of the patient in bed (ghasty, but they always want to see this) and they'll grant the extension of a retirement visa. Of course, the third party also needs to bring the financial proof, i.e. bank letter and/or income letter from consulate. Those are also easy for a third party to obtain, with the authorization letter with the thumb print of the patient and fancy-looking stamps from the hospital.

I could go into much more detail about the plight of elderly expats here, but I'm limiting myself to discussing just the visa issues since this is the visa forum.

I know of expats with no visa and have lived in the kingdom for 15/18 years one who has just left after 6 years of overstay had to pay 20,000 bht that is very cheap he is comeing back next month he had to go back as they stopped paying part of his pension but the latest news is that it is now sorted to his satisfaction no doubt he will come back as before on a tourist 30 day visa and live his life out he is now 69 years young !!!!

[Gary A]

Everyone should be worried about retiring, even young people. Anyway, my comment was meant to point out that the freedom of farangs is very limited in Thailand with all the 3-month reporting, uneven rights after marrying, being unable to own a company, having absolutely no right to buy even a small land (100 square meters would be OK for me, and there would be no risk for Thailand that we farangs would buy all the Thai land if they allow us to own at least the land under the structure where we want to retire), etc. Some of you might have the false feeling of freedom in here since you are able to bribe the cops which is quite hard back in Europe/USA (or maybe not that hard, just the rates are quite higher). Otherwise, I do not have the feeling of being any more free in here than in my own country where I can do literally everything I want (except for mating with underage children or doing other illegal activities, which you might be able to do in here if you pay the right price to the right people). We should call things with the right names, Thailand is great for cheap food (i.e. Thai food, western food is way expensive in here), cheap girls and great weather. Freedom is limited for farangs in here. Just simple facts.

Reporting every ninety days is a major problem? Yes, I'd rather stay at home but since I have to do the 10 minute check in, that makes my wife happy because she gets to go on a little road trip and eat in one of her favorite restaurants near immigration. If doing the road trip was a major problem for me, I'd just mail it in.

Uneven rights after marriage? I can assure you that if I were to get divorced here in Thailand, it wouldn't be anywhere near the financial disaster that I had in the US.

I have a condo in my name and I don't have to pay VERY expensive fees for it. I had a condo in Florida and the monthly fees were $275. Here it costs me $20 with no property taxes.

Can't own a company? I'm retired. Why in the world would I want to create any business headaches for myself?

Breaking the law? Yes, I have been known to exceed the speed limit on occasion, not often, and paying $6 is preferable to paying $150 with points added to my driver's licence and maybe my insurance premium being increased.

Where and what are my "very limited" freedoms? The simple facts are that I'd rather live here than in my home country. The expensive nanny regulated states just don't appeal to me at all.

Yes, the weather is delightful, the country is scenic and at 45 years old, my 45 kg wife is very fit.

[TommoPhysicist]

And if you do not have loads of money when you retire, your freedom will virtually evaporate, and you will be deported to your own country. So much for the freedom here in Thailand Some people do not want to see the reality and live in an illusion. Later, when some shit happens, they are surprised. That is why I am worried about what happens when I retire, soihok. I better plan now than just live in an illusion.

400k or 800k in the bank .... not a lot of money IMHO, but I suppose it might be for you.

uneven rights after marrying,

Like what?

Edited July 5, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[falang07]

like you can not buy the property you live in and it will be in her name

[falang07]

If you are old and sick 400k or 800k in the bank is peanuts, not enough to keep you alive in here.

[TommoPhysicist]

like you can not buy the property you live in and it will be in her name

Nominee land purchases by foreigners are illegal, it's not a marriage/divorce problem.

If you are old and sick 400k or 800k in the bank is peanuts, not enough to keep you alive in here.

Being old and sick is Gods way of telling you it's time to leave this world. Paying $$$$$$$s can to hang on a few more weeks is mainly an American issue, strange as most purport to be Christians. I personally, don't see that as a problem.

Edited July 5, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[falang07]

$20 per month in a condo? You live in a 15 square meters room? I have seen a few old condos where I would not like to live and still none of them was less than 20 baht per square meter.

If you drive too fast, you deserve a hefty fine, they teach you in the school that driving fast is dangerous. Or do you think they limit the speed just for fun? We should differentiate between what is appropriate and what is not. Many people die in Thailand just because speeding fines are so cheap in here and many drivers think they are on a racing track.

[falang07]

OK, so can I be married and own the property (no, not some condo where you pay the rent till you die and do not have any privacy, I need a house) together with my wife?

I agree with you, though, that being old and sick, it is perhaps better to die already

[TommoPhysicist]

OK, so can I be married and own the property (no, not some condo where you pay the rent till you die and do not have any privacy, I need a house) together with my wife?

1) You are perfectly entitled to rent a house for you and allow your wife to share.

2)You are perfectly entitled to lease a house (30 years) for you alone to live in, and allow your wife to share with you, and chuck her out on separation/divorce. (don't expect to ever be able to sell it)

3) It is against the law to give your wife money to buy a house for you to live in (nominee purchase).

These laws favour the foreign husband, not the Thai wife.

1) and 2) you can't be thrown out, even if you have children, as a judge in the western world would usually order, it's YOUR home. 3) You break the law, you get what you deserve.

Edited July 5, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Gary A]

$20 per month in a condo? You live in a 15 square meters room? I have seen a few old condos where I would not like to live and still none of them was less than 20 baht per square meter.

If you drive too fast, you deserve a hefty fine, they teach you in the school that driving fast is dangerous. Or do you think they limit the speed just for fun? We should differentiate between what is appropriate and what is not. Many people die in Thailand just because speeding fines are so cheap in here and many drivers think they are on a racing track.

You really should improve your reading comprehension. My condo is owned in my name. The maintenance fee is ten baht per square meter per month. It is a one bedroom and sixty square meters. The fee is actually 600 baht per month.

When the police need to collect their tea money, they setup on the downside of a mountainous area where you are actually coasting and have to ride the brake if you want to keep to the 90 kph speed limit. Actually quite clever on their part.

[TommoPhysicist]

If you drive too fast, you deserve a hefty fine, they teach you in the school that driving fast is dangerous. Or do you think they limit the speed just for fun? We should differentiate between what is appropriate and what is not. Many people die in Thailand just because speeding fines are so cheap in here and many drivers think they are on a racing track.

When the police need to collect their tea money, they setup on the downside of a mountainous area where you are actually coasting and have to ride the brake if you want to keep to the 90 kph speed limit. Actually quite clever on their part.

If you're not living in a tourist trap, most Thai police usually avoid stopping foreigners, takes too long, too lazy to communicate.

Once they see whitey, I get waved on ....... even if I just did something wrong.

Now that's freedom!

Edited July 5, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[silsburyhill]

I realy do understand Op point that it would be nice to feel relaxed by the visa and I think the 90 day report will be just by letter or even email in the future for all,Just found out today for exampel that in Phuket were I live at the moment i can send my 90 report by letter(ED-visa) so I think there slowly come changes.But one thing is very importent that most of us forget,its not a right to live in Thailand,we are guests here, and there country and there rules, take it or leave it.Sure it could be better for visa and other things but I have made a choice to live here and then i have to take it as it is.

The ridiculous and pointless 90 day 'report' (does anyone seriously believe the Russian 'mafia' whatever crim contingent) trip up to Imm every 3 months? ), has always been on the Statute but was never enforced anywhere until that a*s*wipe Taksin came along. And can you imagine a Thai having to report to their local plod shop/imm office in the UK?

[falang07]

And we could discuss like this forever, now I understand why is it so hard to come to a conclusion in the politics.

[falang07]

You really should improve your reading comprehension. My condo is owned in my name. The maintenance fee is ten baht per square meter per month. It is a one bedroom and sixty square meters. The fee is actually 600 baht per month.

OK, but living in 60 square meters is not my goal either You could build a very nice house for the price you paid for that small room.

[Gary A]

You really should improve your reading comprehension. My condo is owned in my name. The maintenance fee is ten baht per square meter per month. It is a one bedroom and sixty square meters. The fee is actually 600 baht per month.

OK, but living in 60 square meters is not my goal either You could build a very nice house for the price you paid for that small room.

It all depends on what you want. My wife and I live upcountry in HER house and my condo is in Jomtien near the beach. It makes for a good break from HER farm.

[tim armstrong]

Anyone who has lived here for some years understands the consequences of being a farlang, and either accepts thailand with all its uncertainties or chooses to leave

[Badbanker]

As with any country it all comes down to if you can assimilate into the local culture and enjoy having done so as I and so many others have.

If you don't want to assimilate, go back to your 1st world country and let us enjoy what has effectively become our own country!

[TommoPhysicist]

As with any country it all comes down to if you can assimilate into the local culture and enjoy having done so as I and so many others have.

I always though it was more about 'able to endure the local culture'.

[NancyL]

Knowingly going on overstay (i.e. letting your visa expire) is a common coping strategy for many elderly expats who either don't have the financial reserves to qualify for extensions and/or are entering into the stage of dementia where they can't keep track of their personal finances, deadlines, visas, etc. I suppose it may work as a long-term strategy for some, but I seem to get involved in cases where it creates real problems for the foreigner.

For example, if someone's dementia progresses to the point where he can't be controlled and doesn't meet the norms of society, then the police have a perfect excuse to deport him if he's on overstay. Actually, much easier for them than charging him with whatever he really did that caught their attention, like taking off all his clothes in the lobby of his condo. (Happened in my condo -- the guy had decided to wash his clothes in the decorative fountain in the lobby)

A surprising number of elderly foreigners develop problems with alcohol -- problems they never had when they were young. What a perfect excuse to get rid of a trouble making drunk -- deport him because he's on overstay. If the foreigner is part of a Thai family, they may actually "turn him in" just to get him sent back to his home country when they can no longer take care of his problems.

Also, if a overstayer is taken to a public hospital, he'll receive emergency treatment but once he's stabilized he's turned over to Immigration if he's on overstay and claiming he can't pay his bills. The public hospital in Chiang Mai doesn't object to treating people on overstay provided they make a hefty initial deposit and pay their bill upon discharge. How many overstayers have that capability?

[soi41]

Everyone should be worried about retiring, even young people. Anyway, my comment was meant to point out that the freedom of farangs is very limited in Thailand with all the 3-month reporting, uneven rights after marrying, being unable to own a company, having absolutely no right to buy even a small land (100 square meters would be OK for me, and there would be no risk for Thailand that we farangs would buy all the Thai land if they allow us to own at least the land under the structure where we want to retire), etc. Some of you might have the false feeling of freedom in here since you are able to bribe the cops which is quite hard back in Europe/USA (or maybe not that hard, just the rates are quite higher). Otherwise, I do not have the feeling of being any more free in here than in my own country where I can do literally everything I want (except for mating with underage children or doing other illegal activities, which you might be able to do in here if you pay the right price to the right people). We should call things with the right names, Thailand is great for cheap food (i.e. Thai food, western food is way expensive in here), cheap girls and great weather. Freedom is limited for farangs in here. Just simple facts.

Such an old mind in a young body. SAD If this is your POV on Thailand, why even consider retirering here? Blackpool would be more suitable for you

[NanLaew]

... The ridiculous and pointless 90 day 'report' ..., has always been on the Statute but was never enforced anywhere until that a*s*wipe Taksin came along....

I was on my 14-year sabbatical FROM Thailand and missed the Thaksin glory years so I always wondered why so many "resident tourists" had such a hard-on for the guy. I asked a few and they could only link it with some clamp down on the cesspits most frequented by farang sexpats. I thought that only accounts for the mongering brigade, so what about all the rest of the whiny farangs? So it all comes down to making someone get out of bed every three months and do something relatively benign at the Immigration Office? My! What a hardship! Oh.... it can be done by mail as well?

Maybe the complainers were also the ones that had a problem getting out of bed and going to school and sucked at the tit of their homeland nanny state just a tad too long?

For my part, after having 'invested' over 20 years in Thailand with wives, kids, cars, houses and (her) land, all I can say there is absolutely NO personal desire to make this country my final resting place. It deserves neither my spirit, nor my ashes.

Edited July 6, 2012 by NanLaew

[soihok]

Such an old mind in a young body. SAD If this is your POV on Thailand, why even consider retirering here? Blackpool would be more suitable for you

Agree, he has the wrong perspective. Perhaps been burned before?

Better to stay at home and lock the doors.

[Gary A]

I have received two pieces of advice in my lifetime that I have never forgotten, The first was to NOT concern yourself with things you have no control over. That really made me angry at the time and I didn't realize what good advice it was at the time it was given. It took me several years to see the wisdom.

The second was that there is only one person in this world can make you happy or unhappy. That person is YOU.

[HeavyDrinker]

...there is only one person in this world can make you happy or unhappy. That person is YOU.

You clearly don't know my missus...

[mikecwm]

...there is only one person in this world can make you happy or unhappy. That person is YOU.

You clearly don't know my missus...

This is severely off topic - but something about this remark brought it to mind - and thanks for the chuckle.

Why your wife reminded me of this I don't know.

The person who coined the phrase 'as quiet as a mouse' had obviously never put one in a microwave.

[HeavyDrinker]

My missus is as quiet as an elephant...

5am this morning clumping about downstairs, making stuff for the monks....

[blazes]

My missus is as quiet as an elephant...

5am this morning clumping about downstairs, making stuff for the monks....

Thai culture (and all that)....