snieng Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Im in a situation where I'm not sure of where to find more information from...and.. It's a semi emergency.. can you depart from Thailand with another passport than the one you arrived with? In this case, I got dual citizenship. I got a Swedish passport and a Thai. At current state, my visa on the Swedish passport is about 7 months short and I have an emergency situation where I have to travel back to Sweden....I'm attending my fathers funeral.. I simply can't afford both the fines for overstay and the ticket, so, the question is basically can I exit Thailand on my Thai passport? Also, is there any change of me getting denied departing To Sweden at the Suvarnabhumi airport because of my Thai passport doesn't have a valid visa to enter Sweden? Who has the authority to deny my departure? Immigration or airline personal? If its airline personal that will / likely to deny my departing for Sweden, can I just show them my Swedish passport? And most importantly, Do I need to show the Swedish passport to the thai immigration officer at anytime during departure or arrival back to Thailand? Once I arrive in Sweden, departed with my Thai passport, I just need to show the Swedish immigrations the Swedish passport and they let me in? Where do they do the arrival and exit stamps? In Thai or Swedish passport? Cause I believe it's important that the stamps goes into the Thai passport in order for me to return to Thailand without having probs with the Thai immigration? Correct me if I'm wrong... Thanks in advance. Edited July 2, 2012 by snieng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Does your Thai passport have a Thai departure stamp without a subsequent Thai arrival stamp? Sent from my Nexus S using Thaivisa Connect App 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snieng Posted July 2, 2012 Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 Does your Thai passport have a Thai departure stamp without a subsequent Thai arrival stamp? Sent from my Nexus S using Thaivisa Connect App My Thai passport is currently empty, never traveled anywhere with it. Thank you for your answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Two or three years ago a woman posted that she did this. She entered Thailand with her Australian passport, got her Thai passport while in Thailand, then departed from Thailand with her Thai passport. She is now of course on overstay on her Australian passport for the rest of her life but she did not mind because she will never enter Thailand again with her Australian passport. However, in the last few years immigration has improved their computer and database systems and photograph the faces of arriving and departing passengers. I don't know exactly how they use their data banks, but these two possibilities exist when you show your passport on departure and your face gets scanned again: 1. The name on your passport is compared with the database and your name comes up with your arrival date with the Swedish passport. 2. The image of your face is compared with the database and your name comes up with your arrival details with your Swedish passport. In either case, you would have to pay the overstay fine of 20,000 Baht. The correct thing to do is always to leave with the same passport with which you arrive, ie in your current situation you should leave with your Swedish passport. It seems that you did not know that as a dual citizen you could have obtained from immigration a one-year extension of stay, I believe even free of charge, if you had applied before the expiration of your permission to stay. As you didn't apply for this extension you are now liable to pay the overstay fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 For next time - it would have only cost you 1,900 baht to obtain a one year extension of stay on your foreign passport with a trip to immigration. For now. You must use foreign passport to be sure of departure and pay your overstay. First airline will not allow boarding without a visa and they have full authority to do so. If you present foreign passport as is required they will likely note the overstay. If you actually make it to immigration officer he will likely see you listed as here on foreign passport even if you present Thai for exit unless no link on name. I would try hard to obtain the funds to pay fine. If not you risk both having to pay fine at airport and losing your airline ticket fare if unable to make the flight. Not to mention not making funereal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snieng Posted July 3, 2012 Author Share Posted July 3, 2012 Thank you very much for the advice, guess I will have to try to get the funds to pay for the overstay fine than.. By the way, Is the maximum fine 20,000 bath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yes, the maximum is 20,000 baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA_FARANG Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 One more thing to think about. When and if you do return to Thailand...by air I'll presume...enter on your Thai passport. You may exit Swededn on your Swedish passport....but enter Thailand on your Thai passport. For one thing, your Thai passport means you do not need a visa for Thailand....and therefore you can't "overstay" in Thailand. When you enter or exit Sweden...you're Swedish. When you enter or exit Thailand...you're Thai. If nothing else, that will avoid all the hassles at the airport on both ends. That's the advantage of "dual nationality". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersombat Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I'm sort of in the same position. I've asked people about this issue before and have never got a clear answer. In the OP case, upon returning to Thailand and showing immigration the Thai passport, won't they question as to why the Thai passport has no departure stamp? Is it best not to mention the Swedish passport? I thought thais have to choose only one nationality after a certain age. I figured this would create some problems at immigration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Thai do not have to make any such selection - they have to option to do so if they so desire. They will be allowed entry on Thai passport but if initial officer does not know procedure just ask they refer to supervisor as it happens every day. Many Thai obtain initial passport outside Thailand so will never have an exit card/stamp. And there is no need to keep second passport a secret if asked - but always better to avoid mention if not required. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersombat Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben2203 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Point of having two passports is that you can be a resident of both countries without hindrance, leave on Swedish past come back on Thai passport without applying for a visa, when asked why dont you have a stamp present both passports simple as that, you don't require visas for countries you have passports for 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTao Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 My wife always departs Australia on her Australian passport and arrives on her Thai passport, just need to show both passports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben2203 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Should be departs oz on Thai passport go to oz on Australian passport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FergusMPower Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 It is an oxymoron to suggest that a citizen of any country can be classified as 'an overstayer'. Provided that Thai citizenship was obtained prior to the expiry of the visa of whatever other passport was used to enter Thailand, that person cannot be, by law, 'an overstayer'. They need only present proof of their Thai citizenship (i.e. their Thai passport) to refute any charge that they 'overstayed'. Technically, the visa would be deemed to be 'expired' at the point at which the Thai citizenship was granted, as (somewhat obviously) you cannot issue a 'visa' to your own citizens who choose to reside within their own country. If both passports were held at the time of entry into Thailand, the same applies, but I cannot comprehend why someone would not use the passport of the country being entered into, to cross that border, as entry must be granted as of right, whereas (especially in Thailand), use of a Visa engages several annoying reporting/compliance issues. That being said, you still cannot be an overstayer in your own country. The only thing you could be considered guilty of is a rather odd judgment call. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelerEastWest Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Are you a teenager by any chance? I ask because you can enter on a foreign passport and then get your Thai passport in Thailand and leave without a fine - you only have to show both passports to the immigration officer and explain the situation. I have seen this happen without a fine for a minor. If you are an adult (not sure what age in Thailand ) you can still politely explain that you made a mistake when entering Thailand and that you are sorry and it will never happen again.... If you show the airline staff your Sewdish passport you should be fine with them as they primarily care about having to bring you back to Thailand. Good luck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 You most surly will be overstay and have to pay same if you enter on a foreign passport into Thailand and fail to extend your stay or leave by the permitted to stay date. You are in Thailand as a foreign national and subject to such rules. Thailand can not prevent you entering if you are Thai (even without a valid passport) but if you make the choice to enter on a foreign passport you will be subject to the laws of that passport entry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) My condolences for your father. No problem with airline. They only care that they don't get fined by the destination country for allowing some one to board without a valid visa or a passport that allows visa free travel. I can only reiterate what others have already said re Thai Immigration. They now have the means to detect people who have entered Thailand on a different passport and they will catch you and you will be detained and fined, if you try it. There is more than one case like yours on TV about people who tried it and got caught at the airport. You will have to exit on your Swedish passport and pay the maximum fine of Bt 20,000. They might try to give you a hard time about overstaying but just say sorry because after all the unpleasantness, all they will do is ask you to pay. Being Thai is not an excuse for overstaying on a foreign passport because you should have entered on the Thai passport if you wanted to enjoy the rights of a Thai citizen. When you come back to Thailand make sure you enter on your Thai lpassport. You might get hassled by the immigration officer, if your Thai passport has no visa or exit stamp from Sweden and he might try to force you to enter Thailand on your Swedish passport again. Immigration officers try to make up their own laws in these cases but they have absolutely no right to deny you entry on your Thai passport. The Thai constitution gives you and every Thai citizen the right to enter Thailand without restriction. Many TV members or their Thai spouses have encountered this problem. You just insist on your constitutional right to enter Thailand as a Thai and politely ask to see the supervisor if the officer persists in his senseless attempt to violate the constitution. This approach results in a stamp in the Thai passport in 100% of the cases that have been reported here. If you want to be funny, you could jut say you have decided to give up your Swedish passport, so you flushed it down the toilet during the flight! Edited July 8, 2012 by Arkady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estrada Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) It is an oxymoron to suggest that a citizen of any country can be classified as 'an overstayer'. Provided that Thai citizenship was obtained prior to the expiry of the visa of whatever other passport was used to enter Thailand, that person cannot be, by law, 'an overstayer'. They need only present proof of their Thai citizenship (i.e. their Thai passport) to refute any charge that they 'overstayed'. Technically, the visa would be deemed to be 'expired' at the point at which the Thai citizenship was granted, as (somewhat obviously) you cannot issue a 'visa' to your own citizens who choose to reside within their own country. If both passports were held at the time of entry into Thailand, the same applies, but I cannot comprehend why someone would not use the passport of the country being entered into, to cross that border, as entry must be granted as of right, whereas (especially in Thailand), use of a Visa engages several annoying reporting/compliance issues. That being said, you still cannot be an overstayer in your own country. The only thing you could be considered guilty of is a rather odd judgment call. "T.I.T." Logic does not apply with Thai Immigration. Our eldest 20 year old daughter was born in the UK and has a British Passport and later obtained a Thai I.D. and a Thai Passport. Several Senior Thai immigration Officers do not accept that she would be not be on overstay because she has a Thai Passport and National I.D. They say that she cannot have two passports (no longer true), and she must leave on her British Passport and come back on her Thai Passport. If her visa is expired in her British Passport she will be fined up to B20,000 for overstaying the extension of stay. In their logic the extension of stay has to be expunged in their records to keep their paperwork straight. Edited July 8, 2012 by Estrada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 "T.I.T." Logic does not apply with Thai Immigration. Our eldest 20 year old daughter was born in the UK and has a British Passport and later obtained a Thai I.D. and a Thai Passport. Several Senior Thai immigration Officers do not accept that she would be not be on overstay because she has a Thai Passport and National I.D. They say that she cannot have two passports (no longer true), and she must leave on her British Passport and come back on her Thai Passport. If her visa is expired in her British Passport she will be fined up to B20,000 for overstaying the extension of stay. In their logic the extension of stay has to be expunged in their records to keep their paperwork straight. Why would she want to enter Thailand on a British passport, if she is Thai? While much of what the Thai government does is either illogical or unfair, in this case It is perfectly reasonable for the Thai government to charge her the overstay fine, if she chose to enter Thailand on a foreign passport. Equally the argument that they have a right and an obligation to be able to track departures effectively is perfectly valid. There has not been any amendment to the 1965 Nationality Act that makes dual nationality legal. It remains in a grey area, neither specifically permitted nor prohibited. There are several situations where the Act permits revocation of Thai nationality from dual nationals and this power has been used by the Interior Ministry in recent years. Fortunately for your daughter, however, having dual nationality as a result of being born to Thai and foreign parents is not one of these situations where Thai nationality can be revoked. So, if she encounters any bullshit from immigration officers of any rank who pretend that having two passports is illegal in her case, she should stand her ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston888 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 @ snieng About two years ago, I did exactly the same thing, I entered Thailand with one passport and left the country with another ( I did not overstay ). At the passport control they told me that I had entered Thailand in a different passport, and they asked to see the other one. I showed them the other one and they let me through. I presume it would be a different matter if I were to overstay, and showed them different passports. Both my passports are non-Thai. The outcome might well be different in different situations if one of the passport is Thai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Should be departs oz on Thai passport go to oz on Australian passport No, if you have an Australian passport the visa for Australia in the Thai passport is cancelled. Therefore depart Oz with Australian passport, enter Thailand with Thai passport etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 It's pretty simple really.. If you have dual citizenship then you enter and exit the country on that countries passport. My sons are US/Thai. The enter and leave the US on the US passport and enter/exit Thailand on the Thai passport. If you are in a situation where you didn't have a Thai passport when you entered and had to use your foreign passport then once you get your Thai passport you go to the border and exit Thailand on your foreign passport and enter again on your Thai passport. Is not that hard really. The problems arise when you ignore the rules and overstay. Of course this is easily avoided with pre planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Actually it is a bit harder than that as border crossings check for entry/exit stamps and will generally not allow change of passport (they may be talked into it but not always) - much easier to change on air returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) Actually it is a bit harder than that as border crossings check for entry/exit stamps and will generally not allow change of passport (they may be talked into it but not always) - much easier to change on air returns. Are you saying at the land boarders they won't let you enter on a Thai passport if you left Thailand on say a US passport? That doesn't make much sense to me since there is nothing illegal about that. How would they even know if not for the same person doing the stamping remembers your face? In any case, I'll take your word for it that's it's easier at the airport. But I seriously can't see a Thai being refused entry into Thailand using their thai passport at any border. In fact, I think at most land borders they can enter on their Thai ID cards. Edited July 8, 2012 by Jayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 A general dual citizenship can be more than Thai as one of them but for Thai specifically they do not have a departure card on return as is normal - all Thai get them on exit rather than on entry - so that is the first sign. Other country is going to require they exit on the passport used to enter and check for exit stamp from previous country. So will be returning without an exit stamp By air this exit stamp check is not made (as most countries do not make such stamps anymore) so a non event - only have to explain not having the departure card which can be as easy as passport obtained overseas or showing both passports. Yes a Thai should be able to return and am sure they would not remain in limbo too long - but it may not be a very pleasant experience. Much better to use air travel or arrange understanding with immigration officer prior to doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk_mike Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 To be honest, as a Thai, travelling on a new passport, issued in Thailand, the OP may be lucky... i.e. The airline will need the Swedish passport (to show that he has the right to enter Sweden), but the airline doesn't care if he overstayed in Thailand. Immigration will just want to see the Thai passport on exit (and since he's Thai, he'll have a clean departure/arrival card as they do the departure side first. Obviously, he should ideally have the cash in hand to pay the fine if caught out by the computer system, but that would depend on the computer system tying the id of the overstaying Swedish national with a Thai national travelling on his first passport (and then the photo check being apparently the same person). Even if caught, I doubt he can be sent to the IDC prior to deportation when he's a Thai national. My guess would be that the likelihood of being caught will depend on how common his name is (assuming the Swedish and Thai passports have exactly the same spelling / birth date / etc.). i.e. If his name is the equivalent in Thai of "John Smith", then he's probably safe (until the next time anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kananga Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Why would you have to pay an overstay fine on a foreign passport if you have a Thai passport? You are technically a Thai citizen then and cannot overstay as you have a right to reside indefinitely. I would imagine that the best course of action for the future would be to have immigration in Bangkok cancel the current foreign passport visa when the Thai passport is issued so it is no longer valid as it wouldnt be required to reside in Thailand anymore. Edited July 9, 2012 by Kananga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 If you enter using a foreign passport that is your choice and you are treated as a foreign nationals. The only advantage is that you can easily pay for a one year extension of stay and obtain that with proof of also being a Thai citizen. Current entry ends on exit so using entry passport to make an exit is the accepted method to end the current stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timsims Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 yes you can not a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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