Let'S Face It -Jomtien Beach Does Not Rule Anymore?

[Scully]

Personally not living in Pattaya I am basically an outsider looking in. What I really can't get my head around is why anyone would be bothered by a large Russian population. Traveling around I have rubbed shoulders with many none English speakers, they never bother me and I never bother them.

Is it because the Russians are rude, violent or is just because they don't look right?.

Russians have as much right as anyone to be there and if they are not harming you what is the problem. The world is getting a lot smaller, the demographics of my home town has changed ten fold since I was a boy but I have little or no say in it. Being from a multicultural society I learned to live with it.

There will always be English speakers in Pattaya so the only problem I can see is that people actually dislike one group of people.

Sounds like racism to me.

Sounds like doesn't mean it is like. So we are not supposed to talk about this huge change that is in your face all over town? I think that's wrong. This has happened, its here to stay, it will probably grow more, so a forum like this seems a great place to talk about it.

If you want to have an informed opinion about this, come here and visit, and be sure to regularly ride the baht buses, especially between Pattaya and Jomtien. Then you will know more about what is happening here.

People moving here NOW yes should know they are moving to a Thai tourist city now dominated by a Russian speaking demographic. Obviously those people know what they are buying into. The people who came before didn't. Similar to if you buy a house near the airport you can't really complain about the airplane noise BUT if you bought in before there were plans for an airport that's a different situation.

I intentionally said I don't live in Pattaya. As an outsider it looks like you dislike Russians. You are correct I haven't had the pleasure of being in the company of many Russians in Pattaya, so I asked what people think of them.

It is a genuine question, what is there to dislike about them if you can't communicate with them?.

No problem for me talking about the amount of Russians in Pattaya, I would like to learn what people dislike about them. Again its a genuine question.

[Jingthing]

Personally not living in Pattaya I am basically an outsider looking in. What I really can't get my head around is why anyone would be bothered by a large Russian population. Traveling around I have rubbed shoulders with many none English speakers, they never bother me and I never bother them.

Is it because the Russians are rude, violent or is just because they don't look right?.

Russians have as much right as anyone to be there and if they are not harming you what is the problem. The world is getting a lot smaller, the demographics of my home town has changed ten fold since I was a boy but I have little or no say in it. Being from a multicultural society I learned to live with it.

There will always be English speakers in Pattaya so the only problem I can see is that people actually dislike one group of people.

Sounds like racism to me.

Sounds like doesn't mean it is like. So we are not supposed to talk about this huge change that is in your face all over town? I think that's wrong. This has happened, its here to stay, it will probably grow more, so a forum like this seems a great place to talk about it.

If you want to have an informed opinion about this, come here and visit, and be sure to regularly ride the baht buses, especially between Pattaya and Jomtien. Then you will know more about what is happening here.

People moving here NOW yes should know they are moving to a Thai tourist city now dominated by a Russian speaking demographic. Obviously those people know what they are buying into. The people who came before didn't. Similar to if you buy a house near the airport you can't really complain about the airplane noise BUT if you bought in before there were plans for an airport that's a different situation.

I intentionally said I don't live in Pattaya. As an outsider it looks like you dislike Russians. You are correct I haven't had the pleasure of being in the company of many Russians in Pattaya, so I asked what people think of them.

It is a genuine question, what is there to dislike about them if you can't communicate with them?.

No problem for me talking about the amount of Russians in Pattaya, I would like to learn what people dislike about them. Again its a genuine question.

Maybe that's a sincere question. Maybe it's not. In effect, I think it's a trap kind of question. So some of us might say they have a tendency to be brutish or twenty other negative things we can say about overall impressions/generalizations of Russians here. Many of us have some positive things to say about our impressions of Russians as well. Then you get to label us racists and bigots for honestly stating our impressions and "prove" your assumption, that everyone who has a reaction to this is some kind of hater. I really think this topic is better understood but people who are actually EXPERIENCING what's happening here. Words can't express it fully.

Another funny way of looking at it. Here we are bending over backwards to try to be culturally sensitive when its very obvious (based on easily observed behaviors, no need to speak Russian) that a good portion of the obviously ULTRA-nationalistic Russians we get in Pattaya have lots of disdain for anyone who isn't Russian, including their Thai hosts. I guess that's a bigoted observation too, huh?

Edited January 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[wans]

the russians I meet are very friendly, I dont get what the problem is

[robblok]

So basically people don't like the Russians because now there is Russian script all around.. solution is to speak Thai. But people don't like that solution.

Then they don't like the Russians because they might be brutes, i have had the pleasure of being around them at a free buffet and can say they were not well mannered Not sure how they compare to low so Dutch people or lo so Americans ect. So i can't really say. But if they act like idiots then sure i would dislike them too. If in general they are like this, the just say it. From experience i know they are not well mannered I have talked with Dutch people who lived in Russia and they gave me some explanations about it and it sounded ok. But the end result was they were still not nice. (something about in the old days they had to wait in line for food and now they think they can have it all). Last year the Thai owner of a resort where we were staying kept the Russians seperated from the other guests in the restaurant because of trouble. So i don't deny they can make problems.

I think its more a sign of the kind of people then the nationality.

[Jingthing]

the russians I meet are very friendly, I dont get what the problem is

I am happy for you. I guess the times I have been spat at when I've revealed I don't speak Russian (like I said before, I can pass for Russian with my mouth shut) aren't valid experiences as well.

I agree Rob, a big part of it is the KIND of Russian speakers we are getting. No for the most part it isn't the cream of the crop. The same can be said for other nationalities here but right now the Russian speakers are dominating demographically so it's hard not to notice them. If it was drunken English chavs it would be a similar kind of issue but it would be English people, not Russian we were talking about.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

the russians I meet are very friendly, I dont get what the problem is

I am happy for you. I guess the times I have been spat at when I've revealed I don't speak Russian (like I said before, I can pass for Russian with my mouth shut) aren't valid experiences as well.

I agree Rob, a big part of it is the KIND of Russian speakers we are getting. No for the most part it isn't the cream of the crop. The same can be said for other nationalities here but right now the Russian speakers are dominating demographically so it's hard not to notice them. If it was drunken English chavs it would be a similar kind of issue but it would be English people, not Russian we were talking about.

They seriously spat at you.. or on the floor.. how do i have to see this. I mean spitting at someone is a huge insult.

[Scully]

I intentionally said I don't live in Pattaya. As an outsider it looks like you dislike Russians. You are correct I haven't had the pleasure of being in the company of many Russians in Pattaya, so I asked what people think of them.

It is a genuine question, what is there to dislike about them if you can't communicate with them?.

No problem for me talking about the amount of Russians in Pattaya, I would like to learn what people dislike about them. Again its a genuine question.

Maybe that's a sincere question. Maybe it's not. In effect, I think it's a trap kind of question. So some of us might say they have a tendency to be brutish or twenty other negative things we can say about overall impressions/generalizations of Russians here. Many of us have some positive things to say about our impressions of Russians as well. Then you get to label us racists and bigots for honestly stating our impressions and "prove" your assumption, that everyone who has a reaction to this is some kind of hater. I really think this topic is better understood but people who are actually EXPERIENCING what's happening here. Words can't express it fully.

Another funny way of looking at it. Here we are bending over backwards to try to be culturally sensitive when its very obvious (based on easily observed behaviors, no need to speak Russian) that a good portion of the obviously ULTRA-nationalistic Russians we get in Pattaya have lots of disdain for anyone who isn't Russian, including their Thai hosts. I guess that's a bigoted observation too, huh?

It wasn't a trick question and I don't think an overly racist person would move to Thailand by choice in the first place. I respect your honesty. Your observations maybe correct, as I said I don't know as I don't live there.

The problem I have is if people you cannot communicate with are not affecting your life other than the scenery then it shouldn't be a problem.

I can understand you disliking obvious Russian bigots but not the whole society. I guess I will never know how you feel if it can't be expressed totally in words.

Again I respect your opinion and am not here to call anyone racist, just trying to understand your views.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Scully

[DiNiro]

So basically people don't like the Russians because now there is Russian script all around.. solution is to speak Thai. But people don't like that solution.

Then they don't like the Russians because they might be brutes, i have had the pleasure of being around them at a free buffet and can say they were not well mannered Not sure how they compare to low so Dutch people or lo so Americans ect. So i can't really say. But if they act like idiots then sure i would dislike them too. If in general they are like this, the just say it. From experience i know they are not well mannered I have talked with Dutch people who lived in Russia and they gave me some explanations about it and it sounded ok. But the end result was they were still not nice. (something about in the old days they had to wait in line for food and now they think they can have it all). Last year the Thai owner of a resort where we were staying kept the Russians seperated from the other guests in the restaurant because of trouble. So i don't deny they can make problems.

I think its more a sign of the kind of people then the nationality.

I have heard more than once you need to wear protective gear when attending the russian buffet line.

[Jingthing]

...

I can understand you disliking obvious Russian bigots but not the whole society.

...

Not sure where you ever got the idea that I dislike all of Russian society or think all Russians or all Russians in Pattaya are undesirable. I certainly never said such a thing. I might have a personal rationale to feel that way considering the experience of all my grandparents, pogroms and such like, but I don't. Edited January 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[Tolley]

The trouble with Pattaya for me is not so much the Russians but the fact that somehow Pattaya has reinvented itself as a mass tourism destination.

That is what is making it less fun to live in. Too busy too many buses of budget tourists and an infrastructure that cant handle many more people and we still have all these massive condo projects to come online.

I cant see myself staying in Pattaya long term if present trends continue. If the Russians take over as some are saying they are welcome to it because it is getting less desirable to live in Pattaya in any case.

[Jingthing]

The trouble with Pattaya for me is not so much the Russians but the fact that somehow Pattaya has reinvented itself as a mass tourism destination.

That is what is making it less fun to live in. Too busy too many buses of budget tourists and an infrastructure that cant handle many more people and we still have all these massive condo projects to come online.

I cant see myself staying in Pattaya long term if present trends continue. If the Russians take over as some are saying they are welcome to it because it is getting less desirable to live in Pattaya in any case.

Those are good points. There are plenty of issues with Pattaya that have nothing to do with the Russian domination.

[Scully]

...

I can understand you disliking obvious Russian bigots but not the whole society.

...

Not sure where you ever got the idea that I dislike all of Russian society or think all Russians or all Russians in Pattaya are undesirable. I certainly never said such a thing. I might have a personal rationale to feel that way considering the experience of all my grandparents, pogroms and such like, but I don't.

Point taken, after reading you were spat at I can sympathize with your point of view for a minority of Russians.

[balo]

I had to take a short trip to Pattaya last weekend and noticed that 90% of the baht bus passengers were russian couples?

Are we talking about an invasion here?

Who do we call , ghost busters ?

[Awohalitsiktoli]

The trouble with Pattaya for me is not so much the Russians but the fact that somehow Pattaya has reinvented itself as a mass tourism destination.

That is what is making it less fun to live in. Too busy too many buses of budget tourists and an infrastructure that cant handle many more people and we still have all these massive condo projects to come online.

I cant see myself staying in Pattaya long term if present trends continue. If the Russians take over as some are saying they are welcome to it because it is getting less desirable to live in Pattaya in any case.

Those are good points. There are plenty of issues with Pattaya that have nothing to do with the Russian domination.

I think JT made an interesting observation about Pattayastok. Yes, there are "plenty of issues...that have nothing to do with the Russian domination." We tend to simplify things, but in reality what we have seen is a "Russian invasion" at the same time a massive and unsustainable development plan has been unleased on the Pattayastok. Now, we have an abundance of Russians, traffic jams that resemble Bangkok, dirty air, people pollution (overcrowding), massive increase in the number of aggressive/violent psychos (99% of these are not Russian IMHO--the baldheaded, tattoed, I want to kill, kill, kill type fresh from prisons and mental wards), filthy beaches (so overcrowded with beach chairs that you can no longer even walk the beach), among other things. This has lead to something called STRESS. Put too many rats in a cage and they fight. Is the human animal any different?

[Ohio]

When did the Rusian folk ever get the chance to learn respect for others or courtesy in their History anyway ???

Some of these comments I have read were said about English ex pats not that many years ago here in Pattaya.

We have been here 3 months - as usual - met several Russian couples and groups on Baht Buses , Buffet lines, Restaraunts all over Pattaya & with ALL my international experiences I have never seen such brutish , rude people from the same country not ONE displayed any manners at all.

The English Lager louts that are around second road take some beating but there has not been one Russian in 3 months we have interacted with that demonstrated the slightest modicum of civility.

One woman started addressing us in Russian & when I pointed out we didn't understand & we were not russian she cursed us to her family.

My nephew is married with 2 children to a Russian girl in Australia & his Mom in law is actually a former KGB lady I have a ball when we get together & they are fabulous people even though Mums english is woeful.

So I don't believe it is the entire nation , just as we get idots from abroad in most tourist areas Pattaya because it is seen as the cheapest attracts more than its fair share of people who seem to think normal rules from home do not apply to them here

Just an observation.

[Jingthing]

I have not had only negative experiences with Russians in Pattaya, especially those who speak some English. I jump at the chance to help out Russians who ask for directions if they can understand some English. The Russians dominate here, and I want to be friendly but I am not willing to learn Russian. I like to keep an open mind everyday and even with a number of negative experiences I don't think its fair to be prejudiced about new individuals unless they give you a reason. Many of the Russian people I see appear very charming, loving families, etc. I'd guess the majority are not friendly or unfriendly towards non-Russian, just mostly totally indifferent and not interested, somewhat understandable due to the language and culture barriers. I don't want people to get the impression that all Russians are spitting at non-Russians. Some are, probably more than you would expect, but again people can surprise you sometimes, in a good way.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[ARGUSEYE]

The Old Hands in this forum will remember the Great Saudi - Arab Influx from the early eighties.

Now: - THAT was bad!

Compared to that the russification of today is a breath of fresh air!

I'm spending a lot of time in Sihanukville/Cambodia lately, and there also we have an explosion of Russian arrivals. (after all, Vodka, beer and fags cost half as much as in TH) Plenty of couples, but no 14000 Baht "package dealers" yet.

Same in Pattaya, they always keep to themselves. Even the young ones, backpacker age, do NOT mix with the western Packers. Normally young people are quick to make new friends, meeting people from other cultures is part of their backpacking experience.

Tht certainly does not apply when Russians are involved. Kind of sad I think.