Travel Insurance Fails As Phuket Tourist Faces Bt600k Medical Bill

[stevenl]

Leaving out for a few minutes the details of this case.

I'm curious if it's possible for a tourist to ride a motorcycle in Thailand legally, and if not- would any insurance policy ever written cover injuries suffered by myself or my passenger for a motorcycle accident if I did not have a proper license to ride it?

I'm in the process of getting a license to ride the scooter I bought last week and it seems that my license from back home isn't adequate, even with an International Driving Permit. It also seems that I'll be required to provide documents that I doubt any tourists would be able to produce- to even apply for the license.

And if it's not legal for a tourist to operate a motorcycle, is it legal to rent one to them?

Perhaps tourists reading this thread will think twice about casually taking off on a rented scooter...

Yes of course it is legally possible to ride a motorbike. All that required is a valid drivers license for the vehicle driven in English. Some claim a vald IDP is required, but from what I have heard recently that is not required, as long as the home DL is in English.

[how241]

Am i missing something here... Why does he pay the bill if a van hit him??? surely he should pay nothing as not at fault

Thailand...nuff said.

[LivinginKata]

Insult removed. Stay on topic and let's not stoop to insults when answering a post.

[impulse]

Yes of course it is legally possible to ride a motorbike. All that required is a valid drivers license for the vehicle driven in English. Some claim a vald IDP is required, but from what I have heard recently that is not required, as long as the home DL is in English.

Then I'm kind of wondering why the company that employs me is helping me walk through the formalities of getting a Thai license. Or for that matter, why there are so many posts on so many threads about how to get a Thai DL? If folks can drive on their home country DL, why bother getting a Thai license?

Edited July 7, 2012 by impulse

[stevenl]

Yes of course it is legally possible to ride a motorbike. All that required is a valid drivers license for the vehicle driven in English. Some claim a vald IDP is required, but from what I have heard recently that is not required, as long as the home DL is in English.

Then I'm kind of wondering why the company that employs me is helping me walk through the formalities of getting a Thai license. Or for that matter, why there are so many posts on so many threads about how to get a Thai DL? If folks can drive on their home country DL, why bother getting a Thai license?

Because your home license is only valid for a limited period of time, by heart 90 days. So if living here one needs a Thai license.

[PoorSucker]

Then I'm kind of wondering why the company that employs me is helping me walk through the formalities of getting a Thai license. Or for that matter, why there are so many posts on so many threads about how to get a Thai DL? If folks can drive on their home country DL, why bother getting a Thai license?

You can only do that for three months, after that a Thai DL is a must.

[NamKangMan]

Insurance companies are the biggest scam artists in the world.

Yep - basically gamblers who quit the poker-table at high speed with all the money when they lose.

That reminds me of this story I read the other day. Thai's gambling big, and after losing - "me no pay." :) :)

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-news/casino-high-rolled-for-7m/story-e6freuzi-1226418339431

[F4UCorsair]

No idea what PDS means. I am not Australian.

PDS - product description statement

Negative. It means Product Disclosure Statement, and there is a difference.

[simple1]

No idea what PDS means. I am not Australian.

PDS - product description statement

Negative. It means Product Disclosure Statement, and there is a difference.

yes you're correct - my error

Edited July 7, 2012 by simple1

[F4UCorsair]

I've taken travel insurance over the years, probably only with four or five different companies, and every one has had an exclusion on riding a motorcycle. Others experience may be different of course.

I'm probably not the most compassionate person on the planet, but I often wonder about people/families running fund raisers for someone who has found himself in trouble in a foreign country. It's the last thing I would ever consider doing if I, or a family member, was in trouble, financial, legal, medical, or otherwise. He has parents, siblings, and if they care, they are the ones who should be putting the dosh up, even if it means selling the car/s, house, etc.

I feel for the guy, and his family, but really, it's their responsibility.

Edited July 7, 2012 by F4UCorsair

[impulse]

Because your home license is only valid for a limited period of time, by heart 90 days. So if living here one needs a Thai license.

Dang. I was hoping I wouldn't have to go through the process...

[peergin]

Does anybody know the name of the insurance company?

[Konini]

Leaving out for a few minutes the details of this case.

I'm curious if it's possible for a tourist to ride a motorcycle in Thailand legally, and if not- would any insurance policy ever written cover injuries suffered by myself or my passenger for a motorcycle accident if I did not have a proper license to ride it?

I'm in the process of getting a license to ride the scooter I bought last week and it seems that my license from back home isn't adequate, even with an International Driving Permit. It also seems that I'll be required to provide documents that I doubt any tourists would be able to produce- to even apply for the license.

And if it's not legal for a tourist to operate a motorcycle, is it legal to rent one to them?

Perhaps tourists reading this thread will think twice about casually taking off on a rented scooter...

Yes of course it is legally possible to ride a motorbike. All that required is a valid drivers license for the vehicle driven in English. Some claim a vald IDP is required, but from what I have heard recently that is not required, as long as the home DL is in English.

Different countries have different laws. Malaysia requires no International Licence/Permit, just your home country licence. Indonesia and Thailand require it (endorsed with BIKE if you are going to ride one), Cambodia generally doesn't recognise it and in theory you have to apply for a Cambodian driving licence; although the police have pulled this one a few times on us, the document clearly states it's valid and they got no tea money from us). Our UK licences are of the 1980's variety, but we're OK to drive there without an International Licence/Permit on our Australian licences. I think Australia is the same, no International Licence/Permit required, just your home country, but I'm not certain. I remember once inquiring in NZ, and nothing but your home country licence needed unless you are in the country for more than 90 days, whereby you would have to either have an International Licence/Permit or take a test locally. I imagine many countries would have a similar time restriction. Note to self - check Thai law on that one.

The big thing, is if you don't have the correct licence/permit then you are in breach of local law. If you are in breach of local law you are NOT covered by your insurance company. No International Licence/Permit or one not endorsed with BIKE seems to be the biggest trap Australians fall into, not sure about other countries as UK seems to exclude all motorbike activity.

Edit: Just seen Stevenl's post. However, as we are in and out of the country, never more than 90 days at a time, would we be OK? Is it 90 days per entry or 90 days per year?

Edited July 7, 2012 by Konini

[vijer]

Sean’s mother and brother are likewise dumbfounded by the travel insurance policy specifically excluding medical expenses arising from motorbike accidents.

Mrs Mouritsen told the Gazette she was stunned that the policy, issued by a major travel insurance company and sold through the travel agent, did not cover injuries sustained in motorbike accidents – especially for people specifically travelling to Thailand.

This isn't surprising to anyone on TV I expect. Motorcycles are dangerous anywhere, but more so in Thailand. Not to mention "travel insurance" isn't worth shit, ever. At best it "might" cover the cost of your flight if you miss your flight for one of the FEW reasons the travel insurance policy accepts. Go ahead and read any travel insurance policy and see if you don't think you are pissing away $50.

[Udox]

Aside from the legal arguments about his insurance/licence etc. One has to wonder whether he was an experienced bike rider and even if he was - riding a bike in Thailand is a completely different ball game than riding in most other Western countries. Too many people come here and think its child's play to ride a little scooter around and whilst many people may even have good 'road sense' - most of the other people on the roads here DO NOT.

The report states that he said "he must have been hit from behind" - which witnesses have added to, however under what circumstances caused him to be 'hit from behind'? Was he swerving?, took a corner too wide? Remember he just got here the day before and rented a scooter almost immediately and was knocked off it.

We don't know the full story and probably never will, so although we can make comments in general; we should not judge without facts.

[stevenl]

Edit: Just seen Stevenl's post. However, as we are in and out of the country, never more than 90 days at a time, would we be OK? Is it 90 days per entry or 90 days per year?

Check TV motorforum, whole discussion on this recently. If I recall correctly indications were you would need a valid Thai license, but the answer was not definite. This seems to be a grey area.

So why take the risk?

[bristolgeoff]

they is always a clause in policys,dangerous sports or extreme sports need to be included.not nice and i agree why the other driver is not paying

[stag4]

I've taken travel insurance over the years, probably only with four or five different companies, and every one has had an exclusion on riding a motorcycle. Others experience may be different of course.

I work in Australia (FIFO) live in Thailand on my days off, so am on the 30 day tourist on arrival visa stamp. Recently took out an annual multi trip travel insurance, which includes cover for riding motorcycles up to 125cc. (A$17 extra premium)

Total cost was A$163 with a A$250 excess. Policy states quite clearly what is covered & what is not.

Hopefully I will not have to put it to the test.

I have a Thai motorcycle licence

[F4UCorsair]

I'd be interested in the name of that company Stag4 because I ride motorcycles in SE ASia fairly regularly. If you prefer not to post it here, please PM me with the company name.

[Konini]

Edit: Just seen Stevenl's post. However, as we are in and out of the country, never more than 90 days at a time, would we be OK? Is it 90 days per entry or 90 days per year?

Check TV motorforum, whole discussion on this recently. If I recall correctly indications were you would need a valid Thai license, but the answer was not definite. This seems to be a grey area.

So why take the risk?

Thanks - I'll check out the thread.

[silsburyhill]

Insurance companies are the biggest scam artists in the world.

Together with the Bangkok International (what a joke, nursing staff can't even speak the International language). Coincidentally a friend of mine was quoted this exact same amount for repairing two small bones in one foot after a fall.

Oddly, the Bangkok Hospital in Bangkok, (same company, different branch), charges 75% LESS. Rip off Phuket indeed.

[stevenl]

Insurance companies are the biggest scam artists in the world.

Together with the Bangkok International (what a joke, nursing staff can't even speak the International language). Coincidentally a friend of mine was quoted this exact same amount for repairing two small bones in one foot after a fall.

Oddly, the Bangkok Hospital in Bangkok, (same company, different branch), charges 75% LESS. Rip off Phuket indeed.

International Hospital in Phuket has no connection to Bangkok Hospital in Bangkok. Maybe you mean Bangkok Phuket Hospital?

[BazilFox]

Did he have a Motorbike License ???????

[sportsman69]

G'day all.

Confirmed he is in Bangkok Phuket Hospital in Yarrawot Rd. Sam Kong Room 741.

Does anybody know the name of the insurance company? Yes !

Before going further. The patient here had exactly what someone recommended on topic http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/567654-insured-but-no-cover/page__st__50.

He had asked Flight centre for a policy, which was booked by their partner insurance co. 'Covermore', Its sold by the 'Flight centre' travel agency franchise, covering every eventuality for a holiday to Thailand after he had booked his ticket on line and heard about the transport problem on Phuket Apparently there is a witness who was with him at the time that he took out and paid for the policy. I think the salesman / lady could be worth a charge of dereliction of duty, causing financial loss. That however that being said doesn't solve the problem of getting this guy repaired or at least sent to affordable medical care.

I have just returned from visiting my friend Alphons on the 7 th floor of BBK Phuket hospital. Grape vine had told me that the patient on this thread, was also on the 7th floor, " just look for the security guard " to prevent him escaping, no need for a room number !

True story. Security guard out front, Sean propped up in bed, tubes everywhere with a face like a balloon waiting for surgery which won't happen by the way until the existing bill of now 550,000 bt and climbing is paid.

I introduced my self as someone with no connection to the case, but one who had heard about his plight here on Thai Visa, a 10 meter deviation on the way out was no problem, and I was interested to help in any way possible.

This guy is a real human being who is in the most expensive hospital through from what I can determine no fault of his own. He initially was taken to Patong hospital, where because of his horrific injuries was then transferred to BBKP. The only reason I can determine why to there ?, being the most expensive hospital on the island, is he and or his family or the insurance company, which was possibly notified and who has since bailed out, was viewed as a cash cow to be milked to the max. HAD THE HOSPITAL KNOWN THAT HE HAD NO INSURANCE or that it would be denied, or a signed guarantor for the soon to be astronomical bill, i doubt he would have ever been admitted.

I believe a police report does not exist as it is usually only the insurance company who would want this to justify a claim, but seeing they have bailed out citing other reasons. the production of a report would only be useful to prosecute the van driver or his insurance, if any. A hospital staffer earlier had suggested no doubt a police report could be found if really necessary. That would mean if the insurance company was to become involved the hospital would need that. This being Thailand you can draw your own conclusions. Whilst there is no report the van driver walks free, someone jokingly mentioned he was probably an off duty cop doing a bit of moonlighting.

My only suggestions were that with maybe a part payment of the amount already due together with a guarantee from a family member endorsed by the NZ govt ( 'cause they can deduct it from your probate if you predecease the payment due, ) He could be free to seek further medical care. I asked his Case Officer, Khun Sunny, what amount would work, she couldn't / wouldn't answer, saying call me back later. I have her phone number. 076 254 425 ext 1230. Try it if you like.

Yep you guessed it 5 mins. f****** around listening to self promotion audio, then, " Solly no one takes your call ". Stating the bleedin' obvious aren't they!! 6 times in the last hour, same result.

Bangkok Phuket international Hospital. If it weren't so tragic it would be JOKE of THE YEAR.

I further suggested that his family / relatives in NZ gather all the facts of the insurance deal and look around for a lawyer prepared to work on a pro bono arrangement. If in fact the facts are true a lawyer worth his salt would take it on.

Not that it makes much difference but he believes it was a 100 cc Honda he rented from the guesthouse where he was staying with his boss also named Sean who is still in town trying to help.

Sean informed me that the hospital is harassing his mother, who he informed me is ill with cancer, by phone on a daily basis, asking " have you paid the money yet ?,he needs another operation as well you know, he can't leave until you do ".

Made obvious by the Wormald security dude at the door 7 /24.

If anybody feels they have good advice or can help in some way (no Steve Mc Queen antics please ) Getting him out of the country presents little or no problem, it's the hospital that's like Fort Knox. where cash is King.

Sean Kenzie and Amy Myles ( GF ) shared phone 08 579 46297

I am privy to other contacts please PM me if needed. I have informed Sean Kenzie about this site as he might be able to gain some useful help or info., so don't be surprised if you see him on here shortly.

I'm sure he would appreciate a visit from anybody, just to cheer him up. He is able to walk carrying the support appliances around. Hence the Security Guard and 140 decibel alarm system. I accidentally pushed a door on the 7th. about a week or so ago on my way out marked EXIT. Christ all hell broke loose. must have been 10 security and 10 or so nurses turned up to capture the escapee. Give it a try, it's the door marked exit at the end.

It brought memories of a dream I once had of letting off a 500 baht string of firecrackers in the MRT subway in Singapore. Probably a hanging offence.

[jocko]

G'day all.

Confirmed he is in Bangkok Phuket Hospital in Yarrawot Rd. Sam Kong Room 741.

Does anybody know the name of the insurance company? Yes !

Before going further. The patient here had exactly what someone recommended on topic http://www.thaivisa....er/page__st__50.

He had asked Flight centre for a policy, which was booked by their partner insurance co. 'Covermore', Its sold by the 'Flight centre' travel agency franchise, covering every eventuality for a holiday to Thailand after he had booked his ticket on line and heard about the transport problem on Phuket Apparently there is a witness who was with him at the time that he took out and paid for the policy. I think the salesman / lady could be worth a charge of dereliction of duty, causing financial loss. That however that being said doesn't solve the problem of getting this guy repaired or at least sent to affordable medical care.

I have just returned from visiting my friend Alphons on the 7 th floor of BBK Phuket hospital. Grape vine had told me that the patient on this thread, was also on the 7th floor, " just look for the security guard " to prevent him escaping, no need for a room number !

True story. Security guard out front, Sean propped up in bed, tubes everywhere with a face like a balloon waiting for surgery which won't happen by the way until the existing bill of now 550,000 bt and climbing is paid.

I introduced my self as someone with no connection to the case, but one who had heard about his plight here on Thai Visa, a 10 meter deviation on the way out was no problem, and I was interested to help in any way possible.

This guy is a real human being who is in the most expensive hospital through from what I can determine no fault of his own. He initially was taken to Patong hospital, where because of his horrific injuries was then transferred to BBKP. The only reason I can determine why to there ?, being the most expensive hospital on the island, is he and or his family or the insurance company, which was possibly notified and who has since bailed out, was viewed as a cash cow to be milked to the max. HAD THE HOSPITAL KNOWN THAT HE HAD NO INSURANCE or that it would be denied, or a signed guarantor for the soon to be astronomical bill, i doubt he would have ever been admitted.

I believe a police report does not exist as it is usually only the insurance company who would want this to justify a claim, but seeing they have bailed out citing other reasons. the production of a report would only be useful to prosecute the van driver or his insurance, if any. A hospital staffer earlier had suggested no doubt a police report could be found if really necessary. That would mean if the insurance company was to become involved the hospital would need that. This being Thailand you can draw your own conclusions. Whilst there is no report the van driver walks free, someone jokingly mentioned he was probably an off duty cop doing a bit of moonlighting.

My only suggestions were that with maybe a part payment of the amount already due together with a guarantee from a family member endorsed by the NZ govt ( 'cause they can deduct it from your probate if you predecease the payment due, ) He could be free to seek further medical care. I asked his Case Officer, Khun Sunny, what amount would work, she couldn't / wouldn't answer, saying call me back later. I have her phone number. 076 254 425 ext 1230. Try it if you like.

Yep you guessed it 5 mins. f****** around listening to self promotion audio, then, " Solly no one takes your call ". Stating the bleedin' obvious aren't they!! 6 times in the last hour, same result.

Bangkok Phuket international Hospital. If it weren't so tragic it would be JOKE of THE YEAR.

I further suggested that his family / relatives in NZ gather all the facts of the insurance deal and look around for a lawyer prepared to work on a pro bono arrangement. If in fact the facts are true a lawyer worth his salt would take it on.

Not that it makes much difference but he believes it was a 100 cc Honda he rented from the guesthouse where he was staying with his boss also named Sean who is still in town trying to help.

Sean informed me that the hospital is harassing his mother, who he informed me is ill with cancer, by phone on a daily basis, asking " have you paid the money yet ?,he needs another operation as well you know, he can't leave until you do ".

Made obvious by the Wormald security dude at the door 7 /24.

If anybody feels they have good advice or can help in some way (no Steve Mc Queen antics please ) Getting him out of the country presents little or no problem, it's the hospital that's like Fort Knox. where cash is King.

Sean Kenzie and Amy Myles ( GF ) shared phone 08 579 46297

I am privy to other contacts please PM me if needed. I have informed Sean Kenzie about this site as he might be able to gain some useful help or info., so don't be surprised if you see him on here shortly.

I'm sure he would appreciate a visit from anybody, just to cheer him up. He is able to walk carrying the support appliances around. Hence the Security Guard and 140 decibel alarm system. I accidentally pushed a door on the 7th. about a week or so ago on my way out marked EXIT. Christ all hell broke loose. must have been 10 security and 10 or so nurses turned up to capture the escapee. Give it a try, it's the door marked exit at the end.

It brought memories of a dream I once had of letting off a 500 baht string of firecrackers in the MRT subway in Singapore. Probably a hanging offence.

This is a very sad affair and i can tell you are trying your very best to help this poor man and fair play for you for doing that, the thing that stands out here in this case and others i have read over the years is we all have to be very careful what we do while in Thailand i dont take anything for granted ithe odds are stacked against us you have to remember what do Thais get from there govermemt not a lot.

Of course when people are coming on holiday to a fun place like Thailand it's the last thing on there minds but it should be the travel book Rough Guide points out many problems you can have in Asia.

The best of luck for all concerned

[Nigel1500]

sportsman69,

More generally, I seem to live a different life in Thailand to many of the expats who post here. Sure, I'm married to a Thai dentist and retain business interests outside Thailand, so we're not short of money. But I still enjoy basic ordinary Thai life. We don't have a driver or a nanny. I happily use BTS, Taxi and tuk-tuk. I probably visit many of the same expat places that you do. With your cynical attitude to Thailand I can't help but wonder why you remain here. If I felt that way about Thailand I would surely leave and never return. Afterall, expats are citizens of another country to which they can freely return. So, quit complaining about Thailand, or jump on a plane, but don't STAY here complaining.

I don't seem to experience the same Thailand that some of you must have in order to make such remarks. Perhaps it is my conservative nature that has enabled me to resist those business offer that seem "too good to be true", which it seems so many farang get sucked into. My perspective is that the rip-offs, scams, etc. work both ways. Let's face it, there are plenty of farang in Thailand for the wrong reasons.

This leads me to the purpose of the security guard on Sean's ward: to prevent foreign patients leaving without paying their bills. Now, why would the hospital do this? Perhaps foreign patients have an established track record of not paying their bills. How do you think the Thai people feel about that? I can tell you first hand. My wife is a dentist. She studied and practiced in Australia for nearly 10 years before we came to Thailand. She has a sound understanding of both Australian and Thai culture. She will not see foreign dental patients here unless they pay cash up front? Why? Because she thought she'd get in on the lucrative market of offering dental services to foreigners a few years ago and four of her first six patients got away without paying a single baht. She's had the following scams:

• patient reports credit card stolen minutes after leaving the surgury;
  
• patient is using a card that hasn't been activated (surprisingly, VISA processed the transaction and then refused payment days later);
  
• patient simply claims that they never visited a dentist in Thailand;
  
• patient claims the work was faulty even though only a temporary filling was requested and American Express supported the claim
  

I could go on ... my point is that there are plenty of farang scammers in Thailand. Enough for BBK to be concerned about young Sean absconding. I don't begrudge them putting security on the ward. It shouldn't bother you or Sean, unless you're conspiring to do a runner.

I'm reminded that around two years ago an Australian collegue of mine died in Phuket. He passed out in the street, hitting his head on the pavement. He was 56 and a well-learned man. His wife called me and I took the first available flight down. He had already passed away when I arrived but his wife told me that several people including a mixture of tourists and locals were helping until the ambulance arrived, and that BBK doctors really fought to save him. I met a doctor at the hospital, who had studied in Melbourne and practiced in a hospital there. He spoke excellent English, was confident and reassuring. I was completely satisfied with the effort made by BKK hospital as was my collegue's family.

Their hotel bent over backwards to assist, providing free accommodation to other family members so that they could all fly back to Australia together, and an interpreter. The insurance company made the necessary sensitive bookings with Qantas and a Consular official spent time with the family working through the quarantine / customs / immigration issues.

I must therefore disagree with your assessment of BBK hospital, their staff, and the use of security.

Now, specifically to the subject of this topic: the young New Zealander who had the unfortunate motorcycle accident. I'll preface further comment by saying that this is a tragic circumstance. I accept that Sean was minding his own business, obeying the road rules, and was hit by a van from behind. Regretitably, that does not relieve Sean of his responsibilities with regard to his insurance policy. Whether he completed the application on-line or using the in-store brochure, Sean could not avoid the questions relating to skiing, snowboarding, motorcycle or moped. In fact, they are on the same page as his signature if he used the brochure and on-line he would not be able to advance to the payment stage for the application without actually clicking "yes" or "no" for each of these questions. The on-line question reads:

Motorcycle & Moped Riding

If you wish to be covered for riding a motorcycle (including a moped) as the driver or pillion passenger, you must pay an extra premium.

Even if you pay the extra premium, you will only be covered if:

• the engine capacity is 200 cc or less
  
• you're not participating in a professional capacity
  
• whilst in control of the vehicle, you hold a license valid in the relevant country
  
• you're wearing a helmet
  
• you're not racing
  

The Covermore policy complies with the relevant Code of Practice for Insurance companies located in Australia. This means the policy will include appropriate details for lodging a complaint with the Insurance Ombudsman, an independent entity in Australia. Sean should consider his position carefully and lodge the necessary complaint if he believes he has been wronged by the Insurer.

The policy has a "Disclosure" section, with which Sean must comply. In fact, more generally, the policy is an agreement or contract with which BOTH parties must comply in full. Has Sean complied? Who is in breach of contract? The policy requires that the person covered familiarise themselves with the terms and conditions. It offers a cooling off period. It also states that an employee or agent of Covermore, in this case the travel agent, cannot be held liable for the person covered not reading and understanding the policy.

There is no policy which covers "every eventuality" of a holiday to Thailand. However, if that is what he asked for, so emphatically, then I'm confident he would have added cancellation cover, reduced his excess to nil, taken out appropriate luggage cover and disclosed any existing medical condition - all on the same page as the signature.

I dare to suggest that if Sean wasn't in the most expensive hospital then your argument would be that he SHOULD be! I suggest that if Sean is so unhappy there he should pay the bill and move to one of the cheaper hospitals to continue treatment.

Why do you think that a police report doesn't exist. Hasn't Sean reported the matter to the police? The police haven't done anything wrong. They'll make their report, establish the prospect of Sean making a full recovery, and take appropriate action. I read recently that an Australian personality, Lara Bingle, was charged for her involvement in an accident with a moped in Bondi. It took several months for the police to charge her according to the dates in the newspaper. So, why would it be unreasonable that the police haven't yet laid charges over this matter?

With regard to foreigners riding motorcycles in Thailand, Thai law states (and I'm paraphrasing):

To ride a motorcycle in Thailand, a tourist or non-resident must possess and be able to produce:

• A national motorcycle drivers licence issued in your home country, AND,
  
• An International Driving Permit, endorsed for a motorcycle.
  

This is entirely reasonable. It is also the same as Britain, Australia, Singapore, Japan and New Zealand. A brief check of any number of tourist websites, travel agents, or even a call to the Royal Thai Police, Tourist Police Division would have provided the same information.

Does Sean hold a valid NZ motorcycle licence AND international driving permit endorced for a motorcycle?

I note that the policy cannot be amended once the journey has commenced. However, Sean could have taken out an additional policy to cover him for riding a motorcycle.

I note also that the cost per week for the Covermore insurance is $58 without motorcycle cover and $75 with motorcycle cover. For $17 I wonder if it worth the risk.

Two more thoughts spring to mind, both general in nature:

1. Cavaet Emptor: buyer beware. It is the purchaser's responsibility to make sure they are buying the right product and this includes insurance ... and hiring motorcycles;
   
2. Ignorantia juris non excusat or ignorantia legis neminem excusat: the legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violation of the law.
   

Sportsman69, I don't think anyone should be directing cynicism at Thailand, The Royal Thai Police (who WILL have the necessary police report), BBK Hospital, the doctors, or the insurance company. None of them has done anything wrong. The responsibility for hiring the motorcycle without appropriate insurance cover rests with one man. The responsibility for the accident probably rests with another. That Sean is in this situation is unfortunate, but preventable - for $17 per week, if he had ticked the correct box.

Cheers

Nigel1500

Edited July 11, 2012 by Nigel1500

[stevenl]

With regard to foreigners riding motorcycles in Thailand, Thai law states (and I'm paraphrasing):

To ride a motorcycle in Thailand, a tourist or non-resident must possess and be able to produce:

• A national motorcycle drivers licence issued in your home country, AND,
  
• An International Driving Permit, endorsed for a motorcycle.
  

Where did you find that law, do you have a link?

[sportsman69]

sportsman69,

More generally,[...........]

Cheers

Nigel1500

Nigel.

Thank you for your informative and frank understanding of the matter.

I was being critical of the hospital not because of the security guard, they possibly have very good reason from past events. If when coming into my friends room, see........ http://www.thaivisa....d-but-no-cover/

post # 20, you think this is the way a hospital should run?

When you live in Phuket on a full time basis you can judge things inherently different than a visitor. This is not the first case I have seen nor heard about. Why even the other day I took off my footwear as is custom, not 1 minute later had a shard of broken glass embedded in my foot. I pulled it out and gave it to the nurse who just shrugged it off and threw it in the bin. Did someone come to sweep the floor ...NO. Told my wife about it who had visited the day before, she said a nurse had dropped a glass and just picked up the big bits, no one swept up the rest. Is this the sign of a well run hospital ?

I can only make my assessment on what I know.

The other day I could't understand what Alphonse was saying though he was quite lucid. I noticed that his lower dentures were in 2 halves. Lucky he hadn't swallowed them as he is forced to lay prone. Called the nurse, who called the supervisor who just shrugged the matter off. Did they even offer to take the dentures to the dental department for repair. NO. just left them in a jar by the bed. Looking at his profile sheet it was not mentioned that he even had a full set of dentures. Is this good admission procedure ? I took them to my own dentist to have them repaired, the hospital just wasn't interested.

I understand all you say about the insurance aspect, but firmly believe using Sean's statements as a guide he was led to believe by the salesperson that he was covered for every eventuality. He accepts this and realises nothing can be done until he returns home and seeks legal advise.

The main thing that has to be done ATM is to stabilise the spiralling costs and get him home. With that in mind I'm off to do another dual hospital visit and post here if there is more information.

Sean rang me a few minutes ago to thank everyone, even indirectly for their help, and to say the embassy was now in touch and were providing advice.

At least some good has come out of stirring the pot.

Edited July 11, 2012 by sportsman69

[stevenl]

sportsman69,

More generally,[...........]

Cheers

Nigel1500

Nigel.

Thank you for your informative and frank understanding of the matter.

I was being critical of the hospital not because of the security guard, they possibly have very good reason from past events. If when coming into my friends room, see........ http://www.thaivisa....d-but-no-cover/

post # 20, you think this is the way a hospital should run?

When you live in Phuket on a full time basis you can judge things inherently different than a visitor. This is not the first case I have seen nor heard about. Why even the other day I took off my footwear as is custom, not 1 minute later had a shard of broken glass embedded in my foot. gave it to the nurse who just shrugged it off. Did someone come to sweep the floor ...NO. Told my wife about it who had visited the day before, she said the nurse had dropped a glass and just picked up the big bits, no one swept up the rest. Is this the sign of a well run hospital ?

I can only make my assessment on what I know.

The other day I could't understand what Alphonse was saying though he was quite lucid. I noticed that his lower dentures were in 2 halves. Lucky he hadn't swallowed them as he is forced to lay prone. Called the nurse, who called the supervisor who just shrugged the matter off. Did they even offer to take the dentures to the dental department for repair. NO. just left them in a jar by the bed. Looking at his profile sheet it was not mentioned that he even had a full set of dentures. Is this good admission procedure ? I took them to my own dentist to have them repaired, the hospital just wasn't interested.

I understand all you say about the insurance aspect, but firmly believe using Sean's statements as a guide he was led to believe by the salesperson that he was covered for every eventuality. He accepts this and realises nothing can be done until he returns home and seeks legal advise.

The main thing that has to be done ATM is to stabilise the spiralling costs and get him home. With that in mind I'm off to do another dual hospital visit and post here if there is more information.

Sean rang me a few minutes ago to thank everyone, even indirectly for their help, and to say the embassy was now in touch and were providing advice.

At least some good has come out of stirring the pot.

Don't blame your negative attitude on living on Phuket. Many people living here have a far different attitude.

Well done for Sean BTW.

[NamKangMan]

sportsman69,

More generally,[...........]

Cheers

Nigel1500

Nigel.

Thank you for your informative and frank understanding of the matter.

I was being critical of the hospital not because of the security guard, they possibly have very good reason from past events. If when coming into my friends room, see........ http://www.thaivisa....d-but-no-cover/

post # 20, you think this is the way a hospital should run?

When you live in Phuket on a full time basis you can judge things inherently different than a visitor. This is not the first case I have seen nor heard about. Why even the other day I took off my footwear as is custom, not 1 minute later had a shard of broken glass embedded in my foot. gave it to the nurse who just shrugged it off. Did someone come to sweep the floor ...NO. Told my wife about it who had visited the day before, she said the nurse had dropped a glass and just picked up the big bits, no one swept up the rest. Is this the sign of a well run hospital ?

I can only make my assessment on what I know.

The other day I could't understand what Alphonse was saying though he was quite lucid. I noticed that his lower dentures were in 2 halves. Lucky he hadn't swallowed them as he is forced to lay prone. Called the nurse, who called the supervisor who just shrugged the matter off. Did they even offer to take the dentures to the dental department for repair. NO. just left them in a jar by the bed. Looking at his profile sheet it was not mentioned that he even had a full set of dentures. Is this good admission procedure ? I took them to my own dentist to have them repaired, the hospital just wasn't interested.

I understand all you say about the insurance aspect, but firmly believe using Sean's statements as a guide he was led to believe by the salesperson that he was covered for every eventuality. He accepts this and realises nothing can be done until he returns home and seeks legal advise.

The main thing that has to be done ATM is to stabilise the spiralling costs and get him home. With that in mind I'm off to do another dual hospital visit and post here if there is more information.

Sean rang me a few minutes ago to thank everyone, even indirectly for their help, and to say the embassy was now in touch and were providing advice.

At least some good has come out of stirring the pot.

Don't blame your negative attitude on living on Phuket. Many people living here have a far different attitude.

Well done for Sean BTW.

Where is the "negative attitude" in his post???? He was just giving a factual account of an incident, and the poor service at this hospital.

There is a whole thread dedicated to the quality of food and service for restaurants on Phuket. Do the posters on that thread, who are critical of a restaurant, have a negative attitude towards Phuket because they were not impressed with the restaurant????

Edited July 11, 2012 by NamKangMan