True Switched Over To The New Encryption ?

[greatjob]

I dont use the true boxes, I have known for a while at some point I would lose the signal as it moves over unless I get the new HD box and paired card.

Seem to have lost my feed as of midnight last night.

Anyone else with a box (non true) and card working this morning.. The Sonnen / Silva fight is in a couple of hours !!

My non True box with no card is still recieving signal as of this evening.

OK but as of mid-night of the 15th, to the morning of the 16th of this month, you'll find after your all out of luck, have fun guys, the end is near.

Hear hear!! The pirateees think theyre so smart, but good luck to True, make them pay if they want the proper service. Good riddance to all the cheapskate Dreambox thieves, stealers of the True signal!!

I have to agree, I am surprised this post has not been locked or closed yet as some are discussing methods how to "steal" copyrighted materials from True (doesn't matter from when but it is still illegal).

I personally have their "special promotion" for 590 Baht (Gold Lite) and I am happy with it. Yes it is cheap but it provides all the channels I actually use without the sports that I do not care for.

GJ

[rizla]

i have a true box (not Hd) and dish but no subscription so I only get the free channels which now only include 1 English one 'fox'. I am in small village and normal free to air like channel 3 can not be received except by satelite. No tickers have been broadcasted except for channel 9 Being replaced with some kind of new learning channel. Can' afford the packages since I earn Thai money with my small farm. Will.my true box stop working. There are noboxes being replaced around here and about a third of our village has a true box and dish but no package subscriptions. Shops are still selling these old boxes, no hd. There are no telephone lines, cable or internet in the village except using your telephone/edge (3g stops about 1km from here).

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

sorry see next post

Edited July 10, 2012 by rizla

[rizla]

i have a true box (not Hd) and dish but no subscription so I only get the free channels which now only include 1 English one 'fox'. I am in small village and normal free to air like channel 3 can not be received except by satelite. No tickers have been broadcasted except for channel 9 Being replaced with some kind of new learning channel. Can' afford the packages since I earn Thai money with my small farm. Will.my true box stop working. There are noboxes being replaced around here and about a third of our village has a true box and dish but no package subscriptions. Shops are still selling these old boxes, no hd. There are no telephone lines, cable or internet in the village except using your telephone/edge (3g stops about 1km from here).

Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App

I`m the same, i was on true non-hd for a year and i closed it down , paid the one off fee for my true FTA card..to allow the g/f to watch the state channels ...SO, what will happen to us as we`ve paid for the service correctly, and above board with true for FTA state channels....???

AND this thread should not be closed, as it is for legit true users info..

Edited July 10, 2012 by rizla

[Jayman]

I dont use the true boxes, I have known for a while at some point I would lose the signal as it moves over unless I get the new HD box and paired card.

Seem to have lost my feed as of midnight last night.

Anyone else with a box (non true) and card working this morning.. The Sonnen / Silva fight is in a couple of hours !!

My non True box with no card is still recieving signal as of this evening.

OK but as of mid-night of the 15th, to the morning of the 16th of this month, you'll find after your all out of luck, have fun guys, the end is near.

yeah yeah.. we'll see

[Jayman]

Yup; a lot of people here are using the legit cards, but in different hardware as True's boxes have been pretty bad over the years. That possibility seems to be stopped. I also notice that some of the change refer to Mpeg4 capability while other refer to the actual encryption. Can somebody elaborate on whether these 2 things are somehow connected - or whether it (on the 15th) might only be related to mpeg4 capability?

Cheers!

I believe that on the 15th they are switching over to Mpg4 which has nothing to do with the encryption. Since my box is mpg4 ready I'm not too concerned. I'd be willing to be that nothing encryption wise changes on the 15th.

[Strap]

I was going through some details on the update and it seems that the update is not regarding mpg4 or encryption but more for the reason that most digital or HD channels from other countries are H.264 and the boxes we had or used are not H.264 stream compatible. I have a few Dreamboxes / Astro and a few True setups at different locations so Im waiting to see what happens. I did think mpg4 was the norm though.

[lujanit]

To PostMan Pat.

You are missing the point here. How do you steal the signal? It is broadcast everywhere. Like like many others here I have paid True for quite a while (2400 a month) yet their service was terrible to say the least so we looked for alternatives. I would gladly for pay for True service if there was some service. True are rude, they couldn't care less about their customers and compared to Singapore they are very expensive. We had a Gold package plus the Discovery channels and truth be told the quality was shit.

I guess you are just a True apologist given the posts here. How much did they pay you to post here?

[Sayonarax]

Why do people who know nothing about the systems speculate on things?

What does video encoding have to with the encryption of the video?

Get a real job and pay for the dam_n service.

[ignis]

While reading this got a email about the new Dreambox Orton. HD, Dreambox Sunray 4 HD, Dreambox Skybox S12 HD.

Maybe Dreambox are ahead ?

[LivinLOS]

Incidentally you can network the HDD connections from each True receiver to a shared HDD, giving you a single large storage for all recorded content, shared between receivers... took a bit of faffing about to set up but something that you can't do with most other sat receivers...

Can you explain how the new boxes network then.. As this is a crucial feature for me. Networking the TV feeds for live distribution is what I do now but even the records and viewing of PVR over the network is a help.

The STB has a NIC, and a hard disk option for PVR.. It can then 'see' other true boxes on the network and shares the recorded files over to any point ?? Its this viewing archiving and distributing of the recordings over the network as you say I am most interested in.

I would really love to hear how these true boxes network..

I might have true come and put in a 2 or 3 point system if this is factual.

[Ferangled]

Incidentally you can network the HDD connections from each True receiver to a shared HDD, giving you a single large storage for all recorded content, shared between receivers... took a bit of faffing about to set up but something that you can't do with most other sat receivers...

the new box I havent used, only followed the universally poor reviews on here.. Inability to even rearrange channel lists etc..

It has a network port ?? Or how does it network to a shared HD.. Are the HD recordings encrypted or can they be accessed with non true playback devices ??

It does have a network port but the HDD access is via USB and SATA connections. The HD recordings are encrypted and accessible only via other True receivers.

If you haven't even used the new receivers (which aren't all that new anyway, have had mine for quite a few months now), I don't see how you can make this statement - "But as I am also more concerned about quality, I will not use their (getting worse each version) boxes."

Clearly these receivers are much better in terms of quality than any previous release. These are HD receivers with PVR functionality, made by Samsung, much improved menu/guide function etc. Obviously the big improvement being that these are HD, with HDMi and optical audio outputs. They also retain all the legacy connections, component video, composite video and analogue audio. I also quite like the fact that they use an external HDD, leaving you the choice as to how large a storage device you want to connect and meaning any HDD failure is separate to the actual receiver.

This coupled with the release of another 17 HD channels this month, free for existing customers, on both satellite and cable platforms put True streaks ahead of the competition in my book.

The new box is the first box I havent used, mostly as I have my setup nicely integrated into a home theater and home media network. Recordings from one point are available to the whole network. TV live streams are available to the whole network.. Etc etc etc.. Its media distribution to multizones. Thsi while the true boxes were kludgy as all hell.

Can you explain how the new boxes network then.. As this is a crucial feature for me. Networking the TV feeds for live distribution is what I do now but even the records and viewing of PVR over the network is a help.

The STB has a NIC, and a hard disk option for PVR.. It can then 'see' other true boxes on the network and shares the recorded files over to any point ?? Its this viewing archiving and distributing of the recordings over the network as you say I am most interested in.

The best possible connection for sat TV on a decent home theater setup is to run HDMi directly from the sat receiver to your AV receiver, then out HDMi to your screen/ projector...

For the monthly cost of 2,800 bt for four receivers, it would be much easier for you to retain your existing setup but have Truevisions HD PVRs locally, as separate inputs on your screens/ AV receivers. Can you elaborate at all on what equipment you are using? How are you streaming your existing TV feeds? Presumably you are using netbooks or similar at each local position to pick up your "streams" and feed out locally to screens?

The True receivers don't network traditionally and this is not a feature that True have installed for me, although given they have network ports there might well be a way to use these for a more traditional network!

The new receivers use USB (for power) and SATA (for data) connections for the external HDD not the network port. These are then paired with the receiver and a phone call to True activates the recording functions of the receiver. I have successfully setup 4x individual HDDs connected locally to the receivers, which in turn are connected back to a single large storage unit. All the HDDs are my own property, bought separately from True and installed/ set up by myself.

Effectively each receiver thinks it's looking at a single HDD but they are configured to file share back to the main storage. Like I said it took some faffing about but it works. This said we have a separate movie server, so in practice this is used more to watch stored content than the receivers, which are generally there for "live" content access.

[LivinLOS]

The best possible connection for sat TV on a decent home theater setup is to run HDMi directly from the sat receiver to your AV receiver, then out HDMi to your screen/ projector...

For the monthly cost of 2,800 bt for four receivers, it would be much easier for you to retain your existing setup but have Truevisions HD PVRs locally, as separate inputs on your screens/ AV receivers. Can you elaborate at all on what equipment you are using? How are you streaming your existing TV feeds? Presumably you are using netbooks or similar at each local position to pick up your "streams" and feed out locally to screens?

I use HTPC's and PC like STB's (boxee and xtreamers) which can play video files over the network and MPEG data streams.

The Dreamboxes can expose the video MPEG stream over the network, and this can be played back (but not controlled) over the network. I use no netbooks, all either full HTPC's (XBMC mostly) or STB's systems with HDMI outs.

The True receivers don't network traditionally and this is not a feature that True have installed for me, although given they have network ports there might well be a way to use these for a more traditional network!

The new receivers use USB (for power) and SATA (for data) connections for the external HDD not the network port. These are then paired with the receiver and a phone call to True activates the recording functions of the receiver. I have successfully setup 4x individual HDDs connected locally to the receivers, which in turn are connected back to a single large storage unit. All the HDDs are my own property, bought separately from True and installed/ set up by myself.

Effectively each receiver thinks it's looking at a single HDD but they are configured to file share back to the main storage. Like I said it took some faffing about but it works. This said we have a separate movie server, so in practice this is used more to watch stored content than the receivers, which are generally there for "live" content access.

OK I am sort of with you..

My issue is how do you network the 4HD's that are paired to the 4 receivers.. And how do you allow the recievers to browse each other files if they are only paired to the local file.

You said you have them networked so recorded content in one location is viewable in another ?? Right ??

For me its a shame that this dreambox system is failing, I am in the design stage of a large villa with multiple living spaces, and had counted up around 8 TV points, with my current systems I could very simply cardshare my own legal true card, through the home for 8 independent viewing points, a central server holding recorded content, and output nodes with boxee boxes or XBMC playback nodes in each zone for my movie and audio dstribution. Replicating a media distribution network with similar powers, using trues new equipment from a central multisource video distribution 'core' seems a much more expensive proposition. The command and control issues back to the central point for distribution is a headache.

Its reasons like this that users love the power of dreamboxes or other 'non standard' hardware.

[Ferangled]

Its a real cheats charter isnt it? None of you seem to want to pay the legitimate price for the legally provided True service do you? You all want to hook up to some pirate feed or other via some box or other but the ultimate aim for all of you is to get True services under the counter for a cheaper price.

Ironically, a lot of you then complain and moan about the fact that True programmes/ channels arent good enough....and yet in truth, youre not paying for it so you dont have a leg to stand on!!

Er.. 2500 a month thanks..

And having a continual set of crappy customer service.. Eg I moved 2 years ago, they moved the mailing address but not the install address.. I have emailed, phoned, and been on at them maybe 10 times for over 18 months.. Er yes, er we cant do that on our system, er a manager will call you back.. And now, because of their ####p, they want to charge me 2000b extra to apply a new system install to do the HD changeover.

No. I dont think so.

2,800 bt for 4x receivers, monthly. That's a bargain in terms of legal satellite subscriptions. That's 4x Platinum subs, 4x receivers, 2,800 bt... 700 bt a receiver, monthly.

Your dubious legality mates generally cost more than that and if you invest in their hardware of course you run the risk of it being totally redundant when the authorities catch up with them, giving you a bunch of expensive paper weights! If you don't your left having to rig up media PCs to run the software and then output to your screens, which isn't exactly the most satisfying customer experience... what's that you want to change channel, get off the couch and go back to the PC or invest even more money for a wireless keyboard and mouse...

Let's say you pick just one service, Ex Pat TV. If you buy the hardware for 4x set top boxes at 8,000 bt each, that's 32,000 bt. Then 450 bt a month each, 1800 bt a month. How long will these guys actually be running? No one knows, it's fairly clear the service is legally dubious as you can't even access iPlayer outside the UK without a spoof IP via proxy... and the content is very limited and the feed poor quality compared to True. You can't even get HD content yet and when you do, how long it will it last?

The 2,000 bt True are asking you for is presumably the deposit for the HD receiver... so you expect them to provide you a shiny new box completely free of charge and with no insurance that you won't just steal the box, cancel the subscription and move again?! If you have an old True receiver to trade in they should waive this fee, they did for me.

As for the customer service, well yes, English is a struggle, this is Thailand. Like I say I have found a reliable technician in my area and retain his mobile number. He speaks some English but we talk in Thainglish! I'm afraid that's just a reality of living in a country where English isn't the first or even second language... I suggest that you pick up some Thai language skills or get a Thai friend to help you on the phone.

[steelepulse]

Incidentally you can network the HDD connections from each True receiver to a shared HDD, giving you a single large storage for all recorded content, shared between receivers... took a bit of faffing about to set up but something that you can't do with most other sat receivers...

Can you explain how the new boxes network then.. As this is a crucial feature for me. Networking the TV feeds for live distribution is what I do now but even the records and viewing of PVR over the network is a help.

The STB has a NIC, and a hard disk option for PVR.. It can then 'see' other true boxes on the network and shares the recorded files over to any point ?? Its this viewing archiving and distributing of the recordings over the network as you say I am most interested in.

I would really love to hear how these true boxes network..

I might have true come and put in a 2 or 3 point system if this is factual.

My guy told me that True has some sort of deal when you want to use multi boxes in your house. I don't remember all the details, but it was something like this. First box full price, 2nd box cheap, 3rd box free and 4th box 100 or 200 baht. IIRC, 4 boxes would cost 2800/month.

[LivinLOS]

2,800 bt for 4x receivers, monthly. That's a bargain in terms of legal satellite subscriptions. That's 4x Platinum subs, 4x receivers, 2,800 bt... 700 bt a receiver, monthly.

I thought it was now 495 per additional HD receiver ?? With a max of 2 or 3 on Satellite ??

And with the new 17 HD channels it starts to get competitive.. But lets face it we are talking hiistorically here and 2 HD channels (I dont want to watch some Thaio CCTV thanks) is hardly a bargain at 2500b.

Your dubious legality mates generally cost more than that and if you invest in their hardware of course you run the risk of it being totally redundant when the authorities catch up with them, giving you a bunch of expensive paper weights! If you don't your left having to rig up media PCs to run the software and then output to your screens, which isn't exactly the most satisfying customer experience... what's that you want to change channel, get off the couch and go back to the PC or invest even more money for a wireless keyboard and mouse...

Keyboard and mouse (how 90s) You clearly know very little about media PC's.. They have been fully remote controllable for 10 years.. No different to any other remote system except far more powerful. Boxee boxes cost about 150 USD and have the remote and a lot of power.. xstreamer packages are 200 - 300 and are perfect for XBMC.. These days you run an ipad as the remote, browsing all your media in coverflow artwork with thumbnails and with a synopsis of the movie etc in your hand. click play and it outputs on the screen.. Keyboard and mouse !!! LOL.. Your in the dark ages son. Catch up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z6PcxvyGdE

Have a look at the animated menu structures, dreambox control mods, and general look and feel of a properly configured XBMC system.. Nothing out there matches it for super slick interface to your media / TV / Audio / Etc.. Even crestron type systems in the 100k USD install range cant compete with xbmc well set up, controlled by XBMC commander over an ipad on wifi. Its installs like this, in every zone of the villa, including the 120 inch projection room, with a TV feed built into the menu choices, controlled over the network that can be achieved with programming a dreambox setup. So how can you build that with true boxes ??

We are not all sitting there with our VCR's on 00:00.. Keyboards and mice.. LOL..

Let's say you pick just one service, Ex Pat TV. If you buy the hardware for 4x set top boxes at 8,000 bt each, that's 32,000 bt. Then 450 bt a month each, 1800 bt a month. How long will these guys actually be running? No one knows, it's fairly clear the service is legally dubious as you can't even access iPlayer outside the UK without a spoof IP via proxy... and the content is very limited and the feed poor quality compared to True. You can't even get HD content yet and when you do, how long it will it last?

I think expat TV sucks balls.. I can do everything they do with my existing hardware and a pair of cheap US and UK VPN's. Streaming Tv, netflix movies, all the rest.

Like I say many of us are not doing this to save any money.. My example above of an 8 zone independant TV setup that recrods to a central media server and plays back all recordings in all zones.. is why I like the more advanced hardware.

The 2,000 bt True are asking you for is presumably the deposit for the HD receiver... so you expect them to provide you a shiny new box completely free of charge and with no insurance that you won't just steal the box, cancel the subscription and move again?! If you have an old True receiver to trade in they should waive this fee, they did for me.

No I already have a SD box (somewhere.. In a drawer or box ??) which I have paid equipment rental for maybe 7 years on without using.. Without that its 4000b

This is because they screwed up, didnt change my equipment location when I moved, and just changed my billing address to get the bills sent out.. Now after I contacted them 10 times to do it, and they 'couldnt' they now want to charge me a new 'install fee' for a system that has been installed for almost 2 years. They say they 'cant' change the install address without generating an install fee. This is to do something I have reminded them of, over and over, time and again, each time being promised a senior management will phone back, and each time they never did.. More true customer service failing.

So no, paying for nothing.. Not a deposit (they already hold one). Nice try on the assumptions.

As for the customer service, well yes, English is a struggle, this is Thailand. Like I say I have found a reliable technician in my area and retain his mobile number. He speaks some English but we talk in Thainglish! I'm afraid that's just a reality of living in a country where English isn't the first or even second language... I suggest that you pick up some Thai language skills or get a Thai friend to help you on the phone.

Again another assumption.. This isnt about language.. Its just shitty service.. Failed callbacks.. Jnr level techs that cant change an address.. And buck passing..

I dont involve the techs in any way with my system itself, can you imagine the look on the face of the install guy when presented a media network with dreamboxes feeding MPEG data over the net to PC output nodes in other locations.. Alai na ?? Hand him the iPad and see what he makes of that !!

[LivinLOS]

Incidentally you can network the HDD connections from each True receiver to a shared HDD, giving you a single large storage for all recorded content, shared between receivers... took a bit of faffing about to set up but something that you can't do with most other sat receivers...

Can you explain how the new boxes network then.. As this is a crucial feature for me. Networking the TV feeds for live distribution is what I do now but even the records and viewing of PVR over the network is a help.

The STB has a NIC, and a hard disk option for PVR.. It can then 'see' other true boxes on the network and shares the recorded files over to any point ?? Its this viewing archiving and distributing of the recordings over the network as you say I am most interested in.

I would really love to hear how these true boxes network..

I might have true come and put in a 2 or 3 point system if this is factual.

My guy told me that True has some sort of deal when you want to use multi boxes in your house. I don't remember all the details, but it was something like this. First box full price, 2nd box cheap, 3rd box free and 4th box 100 or 200 baht. IIRC, 4 boxes would cost 2800/month.

I tried all this on the phone the other day, but they just kept adding costs and fees, 2000b to move the address.. 4000b for 2 new HD boxes.. etc etc and then I couldnt change or downgrade from my platinum and all the a la cartes for 6 months.. So locked in if I dont like it or it doesnt work. It was just a conversation going no where.,

I am out of the country in a week or so and will go see true when I return, see what they can actually do, see if I can pay something to get a test of the box in a live install.

[Ferangled]

I understand where you are coming from but personally I avoid this type of system in favour of a user based centrally located rack, switching out to screens/ speakers from one point if possible. Generally in the larger villas you have less users than rooms/ screens so actually this makes more sense financially and the end result is much more stable and flexible. Of course this depends on the extent of the AV and, as you mention, if you are using a control system. For me that's the start of the system, what will you have as your remote in each room, what do you want to access/ control in each room etc

This said at 2,800 bt for 4x receivers even a large villa based on local systems is pretty affordable. In my opinion anyone with 4x TVs in their house should be able to afford 700 bt per TV monthly for a True sub! As you get larger this becomes more pertinent. 8x TVs in one house? Well that's getting towards an extravagant house, if they actually have 8 users then what's the issue with paying 5,600 bt a month, it's still only 700 bt per person using the system....

The reality though is once you get up to 8 TVs and over, you usually have half that number of users, the AV budget is larger and it's usually time to start looking at central systems based on user sources and a proper control solution. At that point sharing of recorded content becomes irrelevant because you simply pick your own receiver/ HDD wherever you are in the house, so Dad has access to his documentaries everywhere without having to scroll through Junior's collection of Cbeebies recordings etc.

Horses for courses I guess...

Edited July 13, 2012 by astral
No need for long quote

[LivinLOS]

I understand where you are coming from but personally I avoid this type of system in favour of a user based centrally located rack, switching out to screens/ speakers from one point if possible. Generally in the larger villas you have less users than rooms/ screens so actually this makes more sense financially and the end result is much more stable and flexible. Of course this depends on the extent of the AV and, as you mention, if you are using a control system. For me that's the start of the system, what will you have as your remote in each room, what do you want to access/ control in each room etc

This said at 2,800 bt for 4x receivers even a large villa based on local systems is pretty affordable. In my opinion anyone with 4x TVs in their house should be able to afford 700 bt per TV monthly for a True sub! As you get larger this becomes more pertinent. 8x TVs in one house? Well that's getting towards an extravagant house, if they actually have 8 users then what's the issue with paying 5,600 bt a month, it's still only 700 bt per person using the system....

The reality though is once you get up to 8 TVs and over, you usually have half that number of users, the AV budget is larger and it's usually time to start looking at central systems based on user sources and a proper control solution. At that point sharing of recorded content becomes irrelevant because you simply pick your own receiver/ HDD wherever you are in the house, so Dad has access to his documentaries everywhere without having to scroll through Junior's collection of Cbeebies recordings etc.

Horses for courses I guess...

The thing is I like the process of building and programming myself.. So its almost as much a hobby to perfect and evolve the system as it is to simply 'consumer' the media the system has.

So for me using stuff like xbmc in a distribution network, with each node independant, and maybe 3 of the nodes having iPad control, makes a lot of sense.I personally have had horrible experiences attempting to capture, redirect, and output IR control, which I am seeing as a very basic building block of centrally admin'ing a system that has true hardware in a media distribution net, that again comes down in favor of being able to locally control or IP control dreamboxes in a multi node setup

Add in that getting reliable crestron or panja control system programmers in Thailand is near impossible, the prices installers charge here as they keep busy with the 5 mil and up cliff top villas, and the fact that all the AV equipment has to be imported v cheap 'commoditized' PC type tools. And you have a lot of push to the distribution system. Price up 8 dreambox nodes, 8 xbmc nodes, maybe 3 ipads and a central media HD disc rack. Versus a crestron type distribution network, crestron touchscreens, then fully programmed up etc... Plus I actually think xbmc kicks any system out there for look and feel, once the programming is done right. 2 way IP remote control with media browsing in the hand is a joy and quite a showstopper when someone has never seen setups like this before.

Really the kind of discussion into advanced AV installs is off the topic.. But its part of why true locking users to a single point is a royal pain in the ass for some users. Its not all about dreambox cheats stealing content, theres people and hobbyists out there pushing the boundries and this development will hamper them. Talk to true about these kind of things and expect that look, you know the one, the 'dog thats just been shown a card trick' look.. Theres no point in bothering, systems like this you have to work on from the ground up.

Edited July 11, 2012 by LivinLOS

[Ferangled]

Sorry, I was trying to offer you some free advice; you have given snippets of information about your system and I have responded accordingly. I know a fair amount about media pcs and XBMC but clearly that's not what 99% of members of TV are using. There's no need to be so facetious. I was trying to make my comments relevant to all on the forum effected by this issue not specifically you and your setup of which I have no direct knowledge of.

You come across as the most dangerous type of DIY AV enthusiast, one that knows a little but thinks he knows the lot and so builds a system based on limited knowledge having no awareness that he's gone down the wrong route and was inevitably doomed from the start... I just hope you're not installing these concoctions for paying customers! This change in service has been well known and publicised for quite a while now... I'm surprised you didn't consider this issue months ago rather than waiting for Dday and then complaining about it.

Comparing XBMC and crestron is just naive. One is media PC software, originating from using the XBOX as a media server, the other is a range of software and hardware that is ultimately configurable to do anything from interfacing with BMS to controlling your lights. Which do you think NASA use in their facilities...? I'll give you a clue, it's not XBMC!

I personally hate the iPad, it's a huge, clumsy device that makes for a terrible remote, I do use iTouches, iPhone and smaller android panels though, which lend themselves well as home controllers due to the size... IMHO if you use an iPad as a remote you may as well use it as a screen to watch the content too, it's that cumbersome! Style over substance.

You really sit in a dark room with a 120 projection screen and light your face up with the iPad every time you want to change volume/ channel etc?! That wouldn't be an acceptable solution for most cinemas where you want a discrete control that won't disturb every viewer with each and every button press.

Personally for media servers I use kaleidescape over any home made XBMC solution but that's because I can afford to do so and buy legal content. I have a large collection of CDs, DVDs, and Bluray and the ease, reliabilty and convenience of the kaleidescape system makes these instantly available to all members of my family, with minimum of fuss. I know that I can go away and my wife will still be able to use the system and the children will have access to only children's content via the childs remotes. I'm not about to suggest that everyone spends so much time or money on their systems. Some are fortunate to be affluent and have a degree of technical knowledge, most aren't.

Personally I haven't had any real issues with True's service staff - I have encountered a similar issue to you but it took c.15 mins to resolve with some patience and common sense. We cancelled the sub, they returned the initial deposit and we started a fresh contract at the new address. They gave me 2,000 bt back for the cancelled sub, we then gave the same 2,000 bt back as deposit for the new system. Sometimes you just need to use a bit of out of the box thinking to achieve your aims here, rather than just repeating a request countless times and getting nowhere...

Are you sure it's not a language/ attitude problem here?! Reading back your comments you have a tangible attitude in your written style let alone on the phone/ in person...

You may have noticed that I made suggestions and was quite deliberate in my wording eg. I presume, I suggest etc. You then tell me I've made a bunch of incorrect assumptions about you despite you specifically asking me for information. What world do you live in?!

I must say if I was a True technician I would not have the greatest patience dealing with someone with such an obvious attitude problem and would likely fob you off with any excuse just to get you off the phone. That's evidently what's happening to you...

Edited July 13, 2012 by astral
No need for long quote

[LivinLOS]

Personally I haven't had any real issues with True's service staff - I have encountered a similar issue to you but it took c.15 mins to resolve with some patience and common sense. We cancelled the sub, they returned the initial deposit and we started a fresh contract at the new address. They gave me 2,000 bt back for the cancelled sub, we then gave the same 2,000 bt back as deposit for the new system. Sometimes you just need to use a bit of out of the box thinking to achieve your aims here, rather than just repeating a request countless times and getting nowhere...

Already suggested..

And yes they can return the 2k deposit, but then demand the 2k deposit and a 2k 'new install fee' despite the install already being there.

This on an install I have told them to move the address of for 18 months or more.

My experiences are true have up to now been poor value (that will change when 17 HD channels arrive) have offered poor hardware, and poor customer service.. I keep paying them top dollar and getting sub par signal / hardware / etc.. Maybe they will change in the future but thats the experience so far.

[LivinLOS]

Comparing XBMC and crestron is just naive. One is media PC software, originating from using the XBOX as a media server, the other is a range of software and hardware that is ultimately configurable to do anything from interfacing with BMS to controlling your lights. Which do you think NASA use in their facilities...? I'll give you a clue, it's not XBMC!

Agreed crestron is a control system.. But I have no use for large swathes of its power.

In a media distribution setup, I think xbmc provides a far better overall look and feel than the crestron systems I have seen used and demo'ed.. That said I have been in asia a long time and it must be 5 years since I tested a crestron setup, I fully expect it has improved but have a bias that I think active user communities, with open sourced projects, are far more able to solve these kind of problems than top down control organisations.

Its also not to be missed that an xbmc media system would run to maybe 10th the cost. For what I feel is superior final product. The last crestron touchscreen I used looked very turn of the century. Pure 'buttons on a screen' style interface.

[Ferangled]

Again I understand some of your points but have you ever considered that you can use a crestron processor with non crestron equipment/ touchscreens - iphone, ipad, itouch, samsung galaxy etc? The crestron/ AMX screens are pretty redundant these days as they are shockingly expensive and poor quality when compared to Samsung/ Apple offerings... only the larger screens still have a real market share for global control etc.

Most control systems use direct IP comms where applicable, but certain devices are only controllable via IR. In the UK you can now control Sky over IP, doubt it will be long before we have control of the True receivers over the network too. IP comms certainly has advantages but don't pretend this is an XBMC only feature...

XBMC kicks no professionally programmed and installed control system anywhere... it's not even comparable. Where crestron is installed AV control is just one function it can perform. Lights, HVAC, water heaters, pumps, CCTV integration, remote monitoring/ logging, intercomms, security interface etc the possibilities are endless with a proper configurable control system and expandable infrastructure. The key is picking and choosing the right product for each component, based on function, price and performance. You really can't beat having crestron processing at the heart of your system. It gives the ultimate flexibility.

None of this changes the fact that your dreamboxes are now redundant for viewing Truevisions... so your cost comparison is pretty mute. How much have you spent on redundant hardware?! As is the fact that you are trying to compare a system which you evidently don't understand and can't program yourself with one you have set up and built DIY. My system cost nowhere near the figures you are quoting and I have programmed and installed it myself, sourcing most of the equipment from ebay... I only use one crestron component, an old processor, which cost me c.$500 2nd hand and it controls a hell of a lot more than the True receivers!

Edited July 13, 2012 by astral
No need for long quote please us the Reply box at the bottom of the screen

[LivinLOS]

Again I understand some of your points but have you ever considered that you can use a crestron processor with non crestron equipment/ touchscreens - iphone, ipad, itouch, samsung galaxy etc? The crestron/ AMX screens are pretty redundant these days as they are shockingly expensive and poor quality when compared to Samsung/ Apple offerings... only the larger screens still have a real market share for global control etc.

Most control systems use direct IP comms where applicable, but certain devices are only controllable via IR. In the UK you can now control Sky over IP, doubt it will be long before we have control of the True receivers over the network too. IP comms certainly has advantages but don't pretend this is an XBMC only feature...

No but it IS a dreambox / xbmc featureset now..

And true are removing that option.. Hence the mild annoyance (its really not a huge issue, very little of my 'TV' is real time broadcast these days).

XBMC kicks no professionally programmed and installed control system anywhere... it's not even comparable. Where crestron is installed AV control is just one function it can perform. Lights, HVAC, water heaters, pumps, CCTV integration, remote monitoring/ logging, intercomms, security interface etc the possibilities are endless with a proper configurable control system and expandable infrastructure. The key is picking and choosing the right product for each component, based on function, price and performance. You really can't beat having crestron processing at the heart of your system. It gives the ultimate flexibility.

Where it kicks ass.. Is the look and feel.. The animated menus, the online meta data, etc etc..

The end user look of the system, the skins and mods, not seen anything so visually / stylistically possible with any of the manufacturer systems.

None of this changes the fact that your dreamboxes are now redundant for viewing Truevisions... so your cost comparison is pretty mute. How much have you spent on redundant hardware?!

Isnt that the exact point ??

Well in my current 4 zone small system theres maybe 2k to 2.5k each in DB clones.. I was just adding 2 HD 800's when I found out the encyption change was due so held off.. Basically my cost in hardware thats now not going to be used is ballpark the same as the equipment deposit on true gear..

But like I mention.. Live TV is a very very small part of my system, and with IP streaming of paid services, downloaded TV series, etc etc Its becoming an ever smaller part..

[Ferangled]

Comparing XBMC and crestron is just naive. One is media PC software, originating from using the XBOX as a media server, the other is a range of software and hardware that is ultimately configurable to do anything from interfacing with BMS to controlling your lights. Which do you think NASA use in their facilities...? I'll give you a clue, it's not XBMC!

Agreed crestron is a control system.. But I have no use for large swathes of its power.

In a media distribution setup, I think xbmc provides a far better overall look and feel than the crestron systems I have seen used and demo'ed.. That said I have been in asia a long time and it must be 5 years since I tested a crestron setup, I fully expect it has improved but have a bias that I think active user communities, with open sourced projects, are far more able to solve these kind of problems than top down control organisations.

Its also not to be missed that an xbmc media system would run to maybe 10th the cost. For what I feel is superior final product. The last crestron touchscreen I used looked very turn of the century. Pure 'buttons on a screen' style interface.

You need to catch up with the times, Apple and Samsung have had a massive impact on the AV control industry and driven expectations higher. You're quite correct, the touch screens from all the control system manufacturers look very outdated. So why use them?!

Take the best of both worlds, the best processor with the best touchscreen. It's not like crestron and XBMC are competing products, they are incomparable. You could use crestron to control your XBMC and everything else in your house besides, using whatever touch screen suits you, be it an iPad, iTouch or a Samsung Galaxy...

As for the layouts on crestron panels or any panels for that matter, that's 100% down to the programmer. What's quite ironic is that most of the best XBMC skins have been developed by crestron guys on the side! I have used XBMC for years, had the original version running on one of the original xboxes, it's a great, open source project but not to be confused with professional AV control solutions.

There are advantages and disadvantages to all open source projects, a major one being support from the key manufacturers will always be limited, why? Because they're not making money from it.

[LivinLOS]

But this is drifting massively from the subject..

I was simply responding to the multiple posters saying "all you TV thieves deserve it" when my complains have essentially nothing to do with stealing content, and everything to do with the desire to push the edge and build a better system. Trues actions will make that harder, and hamper the final product. so much so I may not include true in the system, probably will, but 'live TV' is becoming a lesser aspect of the overall package.

Really with CNBC / Bloomberg / CNN / BBC / And AJ.. thats 90% of my live TV viewing covered.. Sure its handy to just flick around to a discovery or nat geo or turbo when you have nothing in mind to watch, but if they want to make that difficult ?? Its hardly a huge deal to make sure you have a stack of docu TV on the server. Endless reruns of top gear isnt hard to find.

[Ferangled]

Where it kicks ass.. Is the look and feel.. The animated menus, the online meta data, etc etc..

The end user look of the system, the skins and mods, not seen anything so visually / stylistically possible with any of the manufacturer systems.

You really need to get out more then!

Anything is possible, the look and feel is 100% down to the programming and nothing to do with the hardware/ software constraints. I create all my home layouts from scratch, they are as good as the time and effort put into them. The same goes for the XBMC skins/ guis. It's just ignorant to suggest that XBMC gives you more visual/ stylistic possibilities than using a dedicated control system could and indicates that you really don't know what you are talking about.

[Ferangled]

But this is drifting massively from the subject..

I was simply responding to the multiple posters saying "all you TV thieves deserve it" when my complains have essentially nothing to do with stealing content, and everything to do with the desire to push the edge and build a better system. Trues actions will make that harder, and hamper the final product. so much so I may not include true in the system, probably will, but 'live TV' is becoming a lesser aspect of the overall package.

Really with CNBC / Bloomberg / CNN / BBC / And AJ.. thats 90% of my live TV viewing covered.. Sure its handy to just flick around to a discovery or nat geo or turbo when you have nothing in mind to watch, but if they want to make that difficult ?? Its hardly a huge deal to make sure you have a stack of docu TV on the server. Endless reruns of top gear isnt hard to find.

?? What are you going on about, you kept replying directly to me asking for more information, now your blaming others for dragging this thread off topic?!!

I thought we'd finished yesterday but you kept picking at it... your first post you critiqued a product you'd never even seem <deleted>!!! Enough, I have work to do... stump up for a proper True receiver and work out how to plumb it into your redundant dream box system yourself.

[LivinLOS]

Where it kicks ass.. Is the look and feel.. The animated menus, the online meta data, etc etc..

The end user look of the system, the skins and mods, not seen anything so visually / stylistically possible with any of the manufacturer systems.

You really need to get out more then!

Anything is possible, the look and feel is 100% down to the programming and nothing to do with the hardware/ software constraints. I create all my home layouts from scratch, they are as good as the time and effort put into them. The same goes for the XBMC skins/ guis. It's just ignorant to suggest that XBMC gives you more visual/ stylistic possibilities than using a dedicated control system could and indicates that you really don't know what you are talking about.

I readily admit, its been years since I went to a trade show, or had a high end dealer demo, I just dont see it in Asia much and havent been back to the US or UK with time to kill to do this. I do follow lots of online bits and pieces, demo videos online etc..

But for the packaged systems, all I have seen has been inferior graphical setups and or very 'brittle' systems.. Meaning they work well for what they are showing, but then you want to add or change something your locked out and looking at huge programming fees.

[LivinLOS]

?? What are you going on about, you kept replying directly to me asking for more information, now your blaming others for dragging this thread off topic?!!

Information I notice you never seem to wish to reveal..

The fact that True HD boxes can network recordings between boxes over a network is a neat feature.. i mean its only catching up with dreambox features of 5 ears ago but hey.. Nice to know.

Edited July 11, 2012 by LivinLOS

[PostmanPat]

To PostMan Pat.

You are missing the point here. How do you steal the signal? It is broadcast everywhere. Like like many others here I have paid True for quite a while (2400 a month) yet their service was terrible to say the least so we looked for alternatives. I would gladly for pay for True service if there was some service. True are rude, they couldn't care less about their customers and compared to Singapore they are very expensive. We had a Gold package plus the Discovery channels and truth be told the quality was shit.

I guess you are just a True apologist given the posts here. How much did they pay you to post here?

I m certainly not a True apologist. Quite the reverse, I was spitting blood over the Euro mess, and in answer to your question, its quite simple. If youre getting the True signal from another system or provider then it is illegal and stolen. OK? Get it? True isnt a BBC type organisation which gets license fees to sustain it. It relies on people buying, not stealing, its programmes.