Are There Any Experienced Gym Goers Out There?

[bonobo]

Great reading, thank you. LIke the technique described, but video isnt working for me, so will look up on youtube.

I never stretch prior to jogging then sprinting..but i do stretch afterwards. OR, if im heading to yoga after, i do jogging/sprinting, then weights, then an hour of yoga.

Do you think this is actually a bad idea (the yoga)?

(sorry to ask this in your thread P, but imagine its useful info for you too!)

(Thanks also Tropo and Bonobo)

You might want to do your weights first, then your cardio. That has shown to increase weight loss over cardio first, then weights.

Yoga for an hour can be quite beneficial. Certain types of yoga can improve fitness level, but all types can reduce stress.

There is no real evidence for the benefit of stretching prior to a workout. There is however a great benefit to 15-20 cardio prior to heavy weights.

So better to do cardio prior to weights or vice-versa? What would be more benificial and why guys? Can you expand please?

A little cardio before weights wouldn't hurt, but for weight loss, weights first, then cardio. I will try to find the link, but one source was an extended study done by the University of Melbourne, I believe it was. If not the University of Melbourne, it was a university in Melbourne.

If you are not worried about weight loss, then I don't know if the order done makes that much of a difference. It might, but I just have read no research on it.

Also, people tend to think weights are only for muscles and cardio is for heart and caloric burn. I read an interesting article a few weeks back which pointed out that in order to reach the same caloric burn of a typical 30-minute weight session, an average sized person would have to run at a 6-minute/mile pace for 30 minutes to match that.

[transam]

It surprises me that after decades of producing serious body builders, Arnie etc, and got to where they are/were from weight training with warm ups, and the huge guy who's gym l attended all those years ago impressed on me to warm up and get things moving, and l never pulled a muscle or tore anything, except a Cartledge which was my fault. Suddenly, it seems they all did it wrong.

[mrbiggwigg]

It surprises me that after decades of producing serious body builders, Arnie etc, and got to where they are/were from weight training with warm ups, and the huge guy who's gym l attended all those years ago impressed on me to warm up and get things moving, and l never pulled a muscle or tore anything, except a Cartledge which was my fault. Suddenly, it seems they all did it wrong.

I totally agree. If it works, it works. When a big body builder tells you how to make yourself big, listen.

Don't listen to any scrawny wannabe. For example me:)

[tropo]

It surprises me that after decades of producing serious body builders, Arnie etc, and got to where they are/were from weight training with warm ups, and the huge guy who's gym l attended all those years ago impressed on me to warm up and get things moving, and l never pulled a muscle or tore anything, except a Cartledge which was my fault. Suddenly, it seems they all did it wrong.

Now you're only talking about warmups, not static stretching. I warmup for 10 -15 minutes on a rower before I even touch a weight. It is the pre-workout static stretching which I don't recommend.

All these old school guys didn't really warm up as much as you think. They just started their programs on some light weight sets. For the magazines articles and interviews they did more. Anyway, they're much bigger these days. Their size doesn't mean much as all these big guys were genetic freaks and would grow with or without stretching.

Edited July 17, 2012 by tropo

[robblok]

It surprises me that after decades of producing serious body builders, Arnie etc, and got to where they are/were from weight training with warm ups, and the huge guy who's gym l attended all those years ago impressed on me to warm up and get things moving, and l never pulled a muscle or tore anything, except a Cartledge which was my fault. Suddenly, it seems they all did it wrong.

I totally agree. If it works, it works. When a big body builder tells you how to make yourself big, listen.

Don't listen to any scrawny wannabe. For example me:)

You forget that genetics play a large part in how big you ultimately can become.

[MaxwellsDemon]

Re: cardio/weights order, I used to cardio for warm up for about 20 minutes, really get the blood and sweat flowing, and after about 30 minutes of weights in the terribly air-conditioned gym I'd be sweating less and less until I'd just get sticky and have dried sweat, which feels disgusting, so I'd turn on the cardio again to restart the sweat before showering.

So for me it was a how-dirty-do-I-feel thing.

[transam]

Think most here are forgetting about the OP. She just wants advise and not enter Miss Universe.

My advise to you is warm up, take it easy for three months but go for it after two months and your body will tell you stuff. Don't worry about pain in muscles IF that pain disappears in two days. It means you have achieved something.

[bonobo]

Re: cardio/weights order, I used to cardio for warm up for about 20 minutes, really get the blood and sweat flowing, and after about 30 minutes of weights in the terribly air-conditioned gym I'd be sweating less and less until I'd just get sticky and have dried sweat, which feels disgusting, so I'd turn on the cardio again to restart the sweat before showering.

So for me it was a how-dirty-do-I-feel thing.

Interesting. I sweat like a racehorse while lifting and not as much while doing my cardio. I also suck wind more while weightlifting.

My cardio is more of a prolonged ache and a sincere wish to stop, where as the lifting isn't painful, but very tiring, very breath-taking, and a very sweaty proposition.

When I was running during before lunch, I would sweat heavily, too. But now, my cardio is a recumbent bike, and that keeps my upper body fairly still, so maybe that has something to do with it.

[phuturatica]

Oh wow! This thread turned into a right discussion whilst I wasn't paying attention and it's amazing what different things people get told and go by.

I was always encouraged to do dynamic stretching before any big physical activity. However I did do ballet therefore I needed to be well stretched and warmed up before a session. Also my muscles are quite tight as I stopped ballet suddenly and pretty much haven't done any physical exercise since then, so if I don't stretch at all I always hurt myself and can barely move afterwards.

I really appreciate everyone's advice on the matter and I've decided to get a personal trainer. Unfortunately I only go to a small local gym so there is none available so I'm considering joining a different gym where a personal trainer can assist me. Does anyone know of a decent one in Bangkok where the price is not ridiculous?! I currently pay 8,000 baht a year at mine.

As for the dizzy feeling... I have high blood pressure due to kidney failure so maybe this is causing the dizzy shaky feeling.

Interesting debate with regards to cardio before actual weights... I've always thought you would do cardio first and then toning?! However I'm no expert!

The gym part isn't the hardest. It's the dieting I am struggling with. I have a serious addiction to sugar.

[MaxwellsDemon]

I currently pay 8,000 baht a year at mine.

I know of a great place that has lifetime memberships for 14,000 baht.

[smokie36]

Think most here are forgetting about the OP. She just wants advise and not enter Miss Universe.

My advise to you is warm up, take it easy for three months but go for it after two months and your body will tell you stuff. Don't worry about pain in muscles IF that pain disappears in two days. It means you have achieved something.

I've been getting myself in shape for the last three months by swimming 100 laps of the pool (25m)....fairly vigorously...but I recently upped the pace to 100 laps in around 35 mins...and now my muscles are really aching today...in fact I felt really quite tired this afternoon after a hard day at work then a swim last night.

Anyway I just wonder what opinions are regards what eek said about letting the muscles rest for a day every so often?

I have today and am putting my feet up!

[tropo]

I've been getting myself in shape for the last three months by swimming 100 laps of the pool (25m)....fairly vigorously...but I recently upped the pace to 100 laps in around 35 mins...and now my muscles are really aching today...in fact I felt really quite tired this afternoon after a hard day at work then a swim last night.

Anyway I just wonder what opinions are regards what eek said about letting the muscles rest for a day every so often?

I have today and am putting my feet up!

"rest for a day every so often"? I would only swim every second day at the most. You'll get far more from it than burning out by swimming everyday and you're more likely to keep it up if you don't overtrain.

[smokie36]

I've been getting myself in shape for the last three months by swimming 100 laps of the pool (25m)....fairly vigorously...but I recently upped the pace to 100 laps in around 35 mins...and now my muscles are really aching today...in fact I felt really quite tired this afternoon after a hard day at work then a swim last night.

Anyway I just wonder what opinions are regards what eek said about letting the muscles rest for a day every so often?

I have today and am putting my feet up!

"rest for a day every so often"? I would only swim every second day at the most. You'll get far more from it than burning out by swimming everyday and you're more likely to keep it up if you don't overtrain.

I would happily do it every day tropo...but maybe just knocking it a bit harder every other...I thoroughly enjoy it so its not a motivation issue.

Only reason I didn't tonight is I don't want to do myself an injury. My muscles are sore. I guess i'm getting fitter....I can see the effects to be honest.

[smokie36]

Thinking about it further Tropo I guess i have been limiting mysel so far to exercise i specifically enjoy.

Three months ago I went for a swim....the first proper physical exercise I had done in a number of years.

I managed 30 lengths before collapsing against the shower thinking I was going to die....and I'm not kidding.

Worked it up for a month or so to 100....and have been speeding it up ever since...from an hour to 35 mins most recently.

i guess I should start mixing things up a bit and use the gym....maybe for some work on the shoulder muscles and toning the abdominal muscles mostly....and some carb stuff on the bike although bikes and crosstrainers i detest really.

What would you suggest for toning those without going overboard on putting muscle on...I just want to look toned...not particularly put on muscle...except maybe arms and shoulders.

[Chittychangchang]

I suggest for the first 3 months train for 1 hour 3/4 times a week on cardio

ie: rowing for 20 mins

treadmill 20 min

Cycling 20 mins

Go at whatever pace you feel comfortable with.

Once your body is used to the routine start experimenting with weights etc-loads of videos and info on you tube

Remember those that don't find time for exercise now will have to find time for illness later.

Good Luck and well done.

[Chittychangchang]

After 3 months give the Creatine and Protein shakes a go, cut out fat and drinking.

Continue this for 90 days if you can.

Then NOTE the difference!

Been there done that...

[robblok]

After 3 months give the Creatine and Protein shakes a go, cut out fat and drinking.

Continue this for 90 days if you can.

Then NOTE the difference!

Been there done that...

Im not so sure you should cut out fat, (depending on what fat of course). The body needs fat to build the hormone testostorone. Also if you cut out all fat you have to get your calories from either protein or carbohydrates. Too many carbohydrates spyke insulin and can give you diabetes.

Its better to improve the kinds of fat your eating, (no trans fats of fried stuff). Just my 2 cents.

I like my protein shakes as they are an easy way to get some proteins in. Creatine.. used it but im not crazy about it. But it does give you better lifts. I generally don't use it also for people who try to loose weight it might be bad to do. Because they will see the scale go up and are not sure how much is due to the creatine or other causes. (i know creatine weight gain is not bad but it can mess people up in their mind).

[Orac]

Is recommending creatine wise for someone who is suffering from kidney failure?

[tropo]

Is recommending creatine wise for someone who is suffering from kidney failure?

Good point. No, don't use creatine.

[eek]

I'll be suprised if Phuturatica gets through this thread..or at least gets through it and finds many relevant answers to her original question.

It has gone so far off -track...

All she wanted was some recommendations for a simple, decent, work-out regime...

[robblok]

I think the

I'll be suprised if Phuturatica gets through this thread..or at least gets through it and finds many relevant answers to her original question.

It has gone so far off -track...

All she wanted was some recommendations for a simple, decent, work-out regime...

Eek there are some advices there. Problem is you cant really give someone a training program without knowing what is available and what is she willing to do.

I told her to do a bit more in the weight room as i dont believe in just bicepts (small muscle) for weight training.

Personally id add squats and some other leg exercises plus some chest exercises and shoulder.. maybe back too. Id split it in a few days. ect.

[tropo]

I'll be suprised if Phuturatica gets through this thread..or at least gets through it and finds many relevant answers to her original question.

It has gone so far off -track...

All she wanted was some recommendations for a simple, decent, work-out regime...

Unfortunately forums don't work like that. They always veer off track. Personally, I don't mind debating certain specific topics, but I wouldn't offer a full program in a thread. That's a huge task which is beyond the scope of a forum like this. Even if I did, a dozen people would come on here and argue about the program I offered. 10 different people would offer 10 totally different points of view.

I think the static stretching and warmup issues were well covered.

[bonobo]

I've been getting myself in shape for the last three months by swimming 100 laps of the pool (25m)....fairly vigorously...but I recently upped the pace to 100 laps in around 35 mins...and now my muscles are really aching today...in fact I felt really quite tired this afternoon after a hard day at work then a swim last night.

Anyway I just wonder what opinions are regards what eek said about letting the muscles rest for a day every so often?

I have today and am putting my feet up!

"rest for a day every so often"? I would only swim every second day at the most. You'll get far more from it than burning out by swimming everyday and you're more likely to keep it up if you don't overtrain.

+1

if you get to the point where mentally, you really ned to exercise each day, change routines, at least. For weights, do arms and chest one day, legs one day, torso one day. For cardio, do swimming one day, running one day, aerobics one day. Etc.

Weights tear down muscle. It is the healing which makes them bigger. So you need to let them heal. For cardio, it isn't as important, but you still need to vary the intensity. For running, for example, you can run 6 days per week, but some are short easy days, some long hard days.

Tropo is also correct, though, in that doing too much of the same thing everyday makes it more difficult to keep it all up.

[Chittychangchang]

After 3 months give the Creatine and Protein shakes a go, cut out fat and drinking.

Continue this for 90 days if you can.

Then NOTE the difference!

Been there done that...

Im not so sure you should cut out fat, (depending on what fat of course). The body needs fat to build the hormone testostorone. Also if you cut out all fat you have to get your calories from either protein or carbohydrates. Too many carbohydrates spyke insulin and can give you diabetes.

Its better to improve the kinds of fat your eating, (no trans fats of fried stuff). Just my 2 cents.

I like my protein shakes as they are an easy way to get some proteins in. Creatine.. used it but im not crazy about it. But it does give you better lifts. I generally don't use it also for people who try to loose weight it might be bad to do. Because they will see the scale go up and are not sure how much is due to the creatine or other causes. (i know creatine weight gain is not bad but it can mess people up in their mind).

Used Creatine for 3 x 1months over a year, bit concerned about the mess people up in their mind comment.

[Chittychangchang]

Is recommending creatine wise for someone who is suffering from kidney failure?

No don't do it! Infact if your over 40 i woud cosult a doctor about taking any supplements.

[robblok]

After 3 months give the Creatine and Protein shakes a go, cut out fat and drinking.

Continue this for 90 days if you can.

Then NOTE the difference!

Been there done that...

Im not so sure you should cut out fat, (depending on what fat of course). The body needs fat to build the hormone testostorone. Also if you cut out all fat you have to get your calories from either protein or carbohydrates. Too many carbohydrates spyke insulin and can give you diabetes.

Its better to improve the kinds of fat your eating, (no trans fats of fried stuff). Just my 2 cents.

I like my protein shakes as they are an easy way to get some proteins in. Creatine.. used it but im not crazy about it. But it does give you better lifts. I generally don't use it also for people who try to loose weight it might be bad to do. Because they will see the scale go up and are not sure how much is due to the creatine or other causes. (i know creatine weight gain is not bad but it can mess people up in their mind).

Used Creatine for 3 x 1months over a year, bit concerned about the mess people up in their mind comment.

With mess up in their mind i dont mean you go crazy from use, but if your mind is set to loosing weight its a bad thing if your weight is increasing even if you can explain it and its the creatine.

I think creatine is perfectly safe and i would use it at times if i was not in weight loss mode.

[tropo]

With mess up in their mind i dont mean you go crazy from use, but if your mind is set to loosing weight its a bad thing if your weight is increasing even if you can explain it and its the creatine.

I think creatine is perfectly safe and i would use it at times if i was not in weight loss mode.

That's interesting. I started using creatine again about a month ago because I had half a container full and wanted to use it up. I've been taking 10g (2 x 5g) per day over this last month. Remember I said that my weight had mysteriously gone up and I couldn't work out why. I wonder if this may have been related to creatine use. Anyway, I've run out now so it will be interesting to see what happens.

[Tolley]

With mess up in their mind i dont mean you go crazy from use, but if your mind is set to loosing weight its a bad thing if your weight is increasing even if you can explain it and its the creatine.

I think creatine is perfectly safe and i would use it at times if i was not in weight loss mode.

That's interesting. I started using creatine again about a month ago because I had half a container full and wanted to use it up. I've been taking 10g (2 x 5g) per day over this last month. Remember I said that my weight had mysteriously gone up and I couldn't work out why. I wonder if this may have been related to creatine use. Anyway, I've run out now so it will be interesting to see what happens.

There are quite a few articles out there that recommend creatine for weight gain. Of course it all depends whether the gain is muscle or fat.

I wouldnt take it mainly because of the potential for liver damage as I have had HEP B before and I dont really need as I am not an athlete in serious training.

[bkkjames]

With mess up in their mind i dont mean you go crazy from use, but if your mind is set to loosing weight its a bad thing if your weight is increasing even if you can explain it and its the creatine.

I think creatine is perfectly safe and i would use it at times if i was not in weight loss mode.

That's interesting. I started using creatine again about a month ago because I had half a container full and wanted to use it up. I've been taking 10g (2 x 5g) per day over this last month. Remember I said that my weight had mysteriously gone up and I couldn't work out why. I wonder if this may have been related to creatine use. Anyway, I've run out now so it will be interesting to see what happens.

There are quite a few articles out there that recommend creatine for weight gain. Of course it all depends whether the gain is muscle or fat.

I wouldnt take it mainly because of the potential for liver damage as I have had HEP B before and I dont really need as I am not an athlete in serious training.

Creatine is a strange one. I use it and it does give you an insulin spike which I guess helps you to work out harder. Touted as a muscle volumizer you are advised to drink lots of water when you using it to avoid dehydration. I guess the volume comes from the water.

Now I see that for women, Creatine is touted as a weight-loss supplement.

[tropo]

Creatine is a strange one. I use it and it does give you an insulin spike which I guess helps you to work out harder.

Actually insulin spikes should be avoided. They're caused by a rush of glucose into the blood after eating carbohydrates. It's better to keep the blood sugar level and avoid spikes. Either way, you won't feel much difference in the gym except maybe feeling less energetic when the blood sugar goes too high.

Edited July 19, 2012 by tropo