Tourist To Non O Retirement.

[Colabamumbai]

Time to look at my options again hence the number of different posts.

I am currently on a tourist visa. I am sure that I have read here on TVF that I can change to Non O retirement with 21 days left on the 60 day visa. Is that correct ? (the visa has not been entended in Thailand).?? With the financial requirements. and if there are less than 21 days left on the visa?

[lopburi3]

At 21 days no problem if you have proof of financials (does not need to be seasoned) and cost is 2,000 baht (normal visa cost). They seem to allow even less days recently and perhaps down to 11 days will be accepted. You can always do with more than the 21 days remaining.

[Mario2008]

Nowadays you can even have less then 15 days left, as long as you qualify. if based on money in the bank, the money doesn't have to be seasoned yet. Only be in a bankaccount in Thailand. if need be you can always first extend the tourist visa and then apply.

Note that not all immirgation offices will do the conversion, some will send you to Bangkok for the conversion.

[Mario2008]

You can apply for a conversion based on retirement in Chinag Mai without a problem. (Only for some other reasons for converting they will send you to Bangkok).

You can apply for the conversion now, but should at least have 15 days left.

No crimina record check or medical is needed, neither is a law firm.

Just go to your embassy webiste, there is a statement there you have to print out and fill in. Do not sign the paper, but take it to the consulate and sign it in front of the consular officer.

Next you apply for the conversion at immigration. Be sure to take some proof of address with you and opening a Thai bankaccount would be nice and bring the bankbook with you showing some money. They might ask to see it.

[ubonjoe]

You can get an income affidavit at the US consulate in Chiang Mai. Info here: http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service.html

You will not need to show any proof of your income when you get the affidavit but may need to show at immigration.

[NancyL]

You can't just drop in at the American consulate in Chiang Mai for them to sign an income letter. Visit their website and set up an appointment for what they call "notarial services". Bring money -- $50 -- Thai baht, bankcards and good old US$ accepted.

[Mrjustice]

UPDATED: CHIANG MAI IMMIGRATION -- INCOME AFFIDAVIT ALONE NO LONGER SATISFACTORY!

Just went yesterday to Chiang Mai Immigration to convert Visa Exempt to Non-Imm. O Retirement.

They would NOT accept the US Consulate Income Affidavit Form, without backup documentation

corroborating the monthly income -- i.e. They wanted Letter from Govt. certifying Pension money (or presumably similarly from

private Company Pension). Note: I even had brought with me ATM Slips showing cash withdrawals from just the past few days of

75,000 THB (more than the monthly required min. income), along with our apartment Lease Agreement, copies of Citigold ATM Cards, etc.

In response, they showed me 'examples' of Letter certified by Canada Consulate (in lieu of Affidavit form) -- note US Consulate

will NOT verify your income per their published policy (I explained this to the Thai Imm. Officers that US Consulate will not do this, and they

would not budge). Further, they expressly wanted it to be "PENSION" income only -- not investment/interest/savings income.

In my case, as a (retired) self-employed Attorney, impossible to provide such documentation. Meaning, only Money-in-Thai-Bank

method will not be satisfactory for persons in similar circumstances.

Interestingly (or, more accurately, contrarily), they also handed me a half-page printed Instruction form, with the usual financial requirements stating the alternatives for showing the 65000 THB monthly income and/or the 800K in the Thai Bank. But, with respect to the Income method their own instruction sheet expressly states: "The applicant must be able to comply with any of hte 3 requirements: 1. Proof of INCOME OR Pension from the country of Origin in the amount of not less than Baht 65,000 per month certified by his/her Embassy or Consulte in Thailand." Note: It says nothing about corroborating documentation, nor does it limit the monthly income to only "Pension" money. So, it would seem that the form Affidavit supplied by and certified by your US Consulate fully complies with their own instructions!

Second, Chiang Mai Immigration will definately not allow you to get Extension of Stay at time you convert to Non-Imm. "O"; and must come

back in 60 days (during final month of "O"), as some past posts have said is possible. If it ever was, no longer!

Finally, for those 'flamers', who will immediately reply we must have done something wrong -- forget about it.

My wife and I were dressed in nice slacks and button down shirts, good shoes, spoke softly and nicely to the Imm. Officers

including the "Sawadee" greeting etc. No arguments or any problems from us (with initial Imm. Officer), until after the Sgt. Major called

us up later, to tell us they would not issue the Visa, for the reasons noted above.

[Jingthing]

Mrjustice: thanks for your informative and very credible report. This issue of how immigration accepts or does not accept embassy/consulate letters from countries like the U.S. that do not actually verify income and rather just take the word of the citizen has indeed come up before at other immigration offices. It seems to be somewhat cyclical. Official national written rules and actual current enforcement policies at the local immigration offices are sometimes not the same thing. Now it will be interesting to see if this is localized in Chiang Mai or a more national trend. Cheers and good luck.

I am a little confused by your post though. Supposing in the case of a U.S. national who has a consulate letter AND a social security benefit with an "official" letter from S.S. verifying the benefit. It sounds to me that that would be accepted but I also wonder what is the process/how hard is it to get such letters from U.S. social security.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[Mario2008]

Nothing special here. Immigration is aware that the US-embassy, and the embassies of some other countries, don't require proof for the embassy letter. As a result it is not unheard off that they require extra proof of your income and the advise is to always bring the extra proof.

[ignis]

_{​With proof of money can get outside of Thailand for a Non '0' ?}

believe _{most will only issue 90 day} Non '0'

Friend last year went to Laos and got a 1 year Non '0'.... + was Not married to a Thai...... as over 12 months ago do idea if they still do issue

[Jingthing]

My understanding is that if you are over 50 it is no problem with no financial evidence getting a single entry O in Laos or Malaysia with the reason being to apply for retirement extension in Thailand.

[tom21]

Nothing special here. Immigration is aware that the US-embassy, and the embassies of some other countries, don't require proof for the embassy letter. As a result it is not unheard off that they require extra proof of your income and the advise is to always bring the extra proof.

by the same token if a person lies to there embassy in getting proof of income from them and is caught out they can be in deep trouble both here and in there home country

[IMA_FARANG]

Did my 2nd renewal of retirement extension at Chaeng Wattana on 13 October 2012.

I used the combination method....funds in Thai bank account plus monthly Social Security pension...combined totalling over 800K baht.

Income statement from U.S. embessy was admitted at Chaeng Wattana and extension approved until 15 October 2013.

Note that although my Social Security pension income and amount in Thai bank account were both individually less than minimum amounts required the SUM of the two combined was greater than the requirement.

I had about the follwing:

1. About 700K baht in bank account (NOT seasoned for 3 months) and

2. About 50K baht monthly pension (Social Security)

So with these two income sources combined the extension was approved.

I had available but was not asked to show my Social Security income statement

(Can be obtained from Social Security by on-line request and form will be mailed to your Thai address by Social Security.)

Had my Thai bank letter showing approx 700K in bank. It was accepted,

And as I mentioned above they also accepted my U.S. income statement from the U.S. embessy in Bangkok..

So anyhow, I can definately confirm the combination method worked for me in Bangkok at Chaeng Wattana on 13 October 2012.

I will, all requirements being the same, definately try to use that combination method for my next extension in October 2013 also.

Edited October 20, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[NancyL]

I think they were looking for some evidence of a regular, monthly income stream, like someone has with a private pension or Social Security.

For example, in my case we have savings, investments, etc in the U.S. where I "could" have an income stream over 65,000 baht per month, but I don't because my husband's regular month pension and SS income is enough to support us both here. We discussed this with Immigration, this concept about how I could, in theory, have sufficient income from our assets, but I just don't need it. They said that, in effect, I was trying to use non-Thai bank accounts to justify my retirement extension.

So we moved 800,000 baht into Thailand and they extended my 90 day O visa with a 12-month retirement extension even though the funds hadn't aged long enough. CM Immigration also kept the "income letter" I had purchased at the American consulate and tried to use a week earlier for a retirement extension.

Perhaps CM Immigration is also thinking that what Mr. Justice is trying to do is justify his financial worth with non-Thai accounts, rather than having a regular, monthly income stream that will continue no matter what happens to the market or his investments.

Edited October 20, 2012 by NancyL

[Dante99]

....... a social security benefit with an "official" letter from S.S. verifying the benefit. It sounds to me that that would be accepted but I also wonder what is the process/how hard is it to get such letters from U.S. social security.

I think Social Security sends out a letter each year to each benefit recipient stating what their benefits will be for the coming year. It is an official letter and I get on from them every year. Never showed it at the Immigration office because never had a need to do so.

If Immigration wants a paper, I just get it for them. It makes no sense to disagree, argue or in any way try to tell them how to do their job or that they are not doing it correctly. Correctly for them is how they do it and nobody can tell them otherwise. They own the rules and they are the Police.

MrJustice's case is the first I have heard of where ATM slips and copies of credit cards were used in an attempt to satisfy the financial requirements. Perhaps creative but ....

[Mrjustice]

Mrjustice: thanks for your informative and very credible report. This issue of how immigration accepts or does not accept embassy/consulate letters from countries like the U.S. that do not actually verify income and rather just take the word of the citizen has indeed come up before at other immigration offices. It seems to be somewhat cyclical. Official national written rules and actual current enforcement policies at the local immigration offices are sometimes not the same thing. Now it will be interesting to see if this is localized in Chiang Mai or a more national trend. Cheers and good luck.

I am a little confused by your post though. Supposing in the case of a U.S. national who has a consulate letter AND a social security benefit with an "official" letter from S.S. verifying the benefit. It sounds to me that that would be accepted but I also wonder what is the process/how hard is it to get such letters from U.S. social security.

Your welcome. And, I agree about your 'confusion' regarding the Letter from SSA.

Will it have to be "Certified", if so how -- by the Consulate? Don't know if they can do that,

if they didn't get the Letter directly. Or, just attach Letter to the Affidavit? (I think but not certain,

that is what the Immig. folks were implying).

[Mrjustice]

Nothing special here. Immigration is aware that the US-embassy, and the embassies of some other countries, don't require proof for the embassy letter. As a result it is not unheard off that they require extra proof of your income and the advise is to always bring the extra proof.

by the same token if a person lies to there embassy in getting proof of income from them and is caught out they can be in deep trouble both here and in there home country

"Lying" is not the problem. The law/rules do not specify the type of monthly Income; and just say "Income". Immig. instruction form given to me

expressly says "Income OR Pension". So, should be nothing wrong to be able to rely upon investment/interest income, which is what we had truthfully intended. It's just that now Chiang Mai Immig. says ONLY "Pension" income will be acceptable.

[Mrjustice]

....... a social security benefit with an "official" letter from S.S. verifying the benefit. It sounds to me that that would be accepted but I also wonder what is the process/how hard is it to get such letters from U.S. social security.

I think Social Security sends out a letter each year to each benefit recipient stating what their benefits will be for the coming year. It is an official letter and I get on from them every year. Never showed it at the Immigration office because never had a need to do so.

If Immigration wants a paper, I just get it for them. It makes no sense to disagree, argue or in any way try to tell them how to do their job or that they are not doing it correctly. Correctly for them is how they do it and nobody can tell them otherwise. They own the rules and they are the Police.

MrJustice's case is the first I have heard of where ATM slips and copies of credit cards were used in an attempt to satisfy the financial requirements. Perhaps creative but ....

I was not being "creative" bringing along ATM slips -- this has repeatedly been advised in this Forum, to bring with (at least when applying for Ext. of STay), to verify money is being brought in. And, yes, I agree it is "their rules". Purpose of my Post, was to advise that at least in the Chiang Mai Immig. Office, they have 'changed their rules/policy"; and now WILL be requiring corrobating documentation of PENSION income to accompany the Consulate Affidavit.

[Mario2008]

Income can be anything, including for instance income from renting out property. That only pension would be acceptable would be new to me. But suspect they want something they can easily verrify.

[ubonjoe]

UPDATED: CHIANG MAI IMMIGRATION -- INCOME AFFIDAVIT ALONE NO LONGER SATISFACTORY!

The best option and one that immigration will accept is to open an account at a bank here and make regular transfers into the account. Then make copies of bank book pages to show proof that income is coming in on a regular basis.

Using Bangkok Banks New York branch to transfer funds in is probably the least costly than any other option. You would only pay for a domestic transfer to the bank and then a $5 charge for NY and then .25% service fee with a 200 baht minimum.

Info can be found here: http://www.bangkokba...ndsfromUSA.aspx

Edit: Chiang Mai immigration has been reported many times time before as asking for back up proof of income to all income documents from Embassies and consulates.

Edited October 21, 2012 by ubonjoe

[Mrjustice]

UPDATED: CHIANG MAI IMMIGRATION -- INCOME AFFIDAVIT ALONE NO LONGER SATISFACTORY!

The best option and one that immigration will accept is to open an account at a bank here and make regular transfers into the account. Then make copies of bank book pages to show proof that income is coming in on a regular basis.

Using Bangkok Banks New York branch to transfer funds in is probably the least costly than any other option. You would only pay for a domestic transfer to the bank and then a $5 charge for NY and then .25% service fee with a 200 baht minimum.

Info can be found here: http://www.bangkokba...ndsfromUSA.aspx

Edit: Chiang Mai immigration has been reported many times time before as asking for back up proof of income to all income documents from Embassies and consulates.

One of us is confused now. Because you seem to be mixing the Income method with Money-in-Bank method.

My understanding, it's one or the other. If you use Money-in-Bank method, you don't need to make regular transfers into the account,

only have 800,000THB/per person in Thai Bank, and keep it there. Doesn't have to be spent; no withdrawals or further deposits required.

If this is wrong, I sure hope somebody clarifies this for me, before we have another problem. But, I thought I was pretty clear on this.

[ubonjoe]

I was not referring to money in the bank for extension. I am referring to extension based upon income of 65K.

Making regular transfers into a Thai bank account is the best back up proof for your income affidavit.

[Mrjustice]

I was not referring to money in the bank for extension. I am referring to extension based upon income of 65K.

Making regular transfers into a Thai bank account is the best back up proof for your income affidavit.

Ok I understand. And, I would agree it should be satisfactory (as I would also think have substantial funds

in foreign investment/bank accounts from which you get the funds, should also be satisfactory).

However, based on my experience, I would strongly suspect they would still require proof of SOURCE of income/bank transfers;

and, unless it is certified Pension Income, problem.

[ubonjoe]

Unless immigration has changed their minds the bank book is enough because it will show the deposits as foreign funds transfer.

(or "FTT" foreign telex transfer).

I think Chiang Mai immigration just want to see some money in a local bank not a bank outside the country.

I have done 5 extensions using at the immigration office here in Ubon using an income affidavit and have never been ask for anything else.