Phuket Expat Frenchman Stands To Lose B100Mn Home In National Park Land Raid

[NamKangMan]

@ davejones

Well, I don't see many 20 year olds "investing" in property here, I only see them holidaying, or selling time share. So, I thought I would comment on the demographic of people who do seem to be in the market, the retirees - aged around 65.

In any case, since when were we discussing big multinational companies???? Interesting to note, Carrefore pulled out of Thailand a while ago and DTAC has copped a lot of grief from its Thai competition. Even the large companies are not playing on a level playing field here.

As for the SET, it made gains after the GFC, just like every other stock exchange. The lack of stability in Government here always poses a threat. Eg. another military coup. So, a higher risk than many other stock exchanges.

In relation to living in a home until you die - I would like to know that upon my death, I leave that home to my children. For me, that home IS my children's and I am just enjoying it for a while before I pass on. This is not such an easy thing to do in Thailand, because I am a farang, so, I'll just leave them the cash I would have used to buy a home here and let the interest that cash makes pay my rent until my death.

Currently, the interest that cash makes is more than the cost of renting here and I have avoided all the exposure that comes with property ownership here. For me, no "investment" in property here, is an "investment."

Unlike the Frenchman in this thread, if my property is ever raided, or any of the other numerous issues that may arise for farang ownership of property here, all I stand to lose is one month in rent.

[NamKangMan]

I agree that some have made money here, in property, in the past, however, I would argue that those days are over.

A quick look at one real estate agent's website, Siam Real Estate, shows, currently, they have 452 houses for sale and 199 condos for sale, on Phuket.

Why so many for sale, if property is such a good investment, either for a capital gain, or for renting out????

How long have the majority of these properties been on the market, waiting for a buyer????

It looks like these owners are going to be the ones left "holding the can."

That time was always coming. It looks like it's here now.

Yes, I agree with this as well. But even in a market like this you can still find very distressed buyers and make money on the deal.

I think we are in general agreement about the property market here. The only things we differ on are...

1) I think you can still find good deals, even though they are hard to find.

2) I would buy if I stayed long-term, but that is my choice. It would be a home not an investment. That's a very important distinction. I would even pay above market price for the perfect home in the perfect location if I had to. Making a profit doesn't matter to me in those circumstances. But would I do the same for an investment? No way.

I think you mean "distressed sellers" - not "distressed buyers."

If property is such a good "investment" here, why are there "distressed sellers?"

Are they "distressed" because there are no buyers????

Why are there no buyers????

Like I said, it looks like the "owners" and sellers of the hundreds and hundreds of properties on the market here now will be the ones "left holding the can" - and guess what, they are still building hundreds of more properties. This will cause even more "distressed sellers."

Even if you bought a property at rock bottom price, if it takes years to on-sell it and you have problems renting it out, what good is it to you when the cash you paid for it would have made more in interest, sitting in a bank, whilst you sit back taking no risk at all????

[NamKangMan]

@ F1fanatic

Unfortunately, what BECOMES "legal" and "illegal" here depends on what is paid to a corrupt Thai official - no security with "buying" property here whilst this is the case.

[NamKangMan]

I'm sure you're right but... the wrong set of circumstances and it is v easy to lose.

I lost my life savings this way. Having bought a 30 year lease, I thought I was safe as it was all legal - bad mistake

I'm sorry to hear about your lost savings, but it's never wise so invest everything you have into one asset.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean you can't lose money. And that is true everywhere. But Thailand still has some great investment opportunities. That is why so many international companies come here. Do you think they would come if they were all losing money?

As mentioned, in Thailand, as can be seen in the OP, what is "legal" today, is discovered to be "illegal" tomorrow. Who could know, until it happens?

Hardly a stable environment to be "investing" in.

[NamKangMan]

I'm sure you're right but... the wrong set of circumstances and it is v easy to lose.

I lost my life savings this way. Having bought a 30 year lease, I thought I was safe as it was all legal - bad mistake

I would not like to be in them shoes.

But I do not think I ever would, nobody should sink their life savings into a foreign country

I disagree. There are many foreign countries that are safe.

One country that comes to mind, in this region, is Australia. This country came though the GFC almost untouched, due to it's mineral resource boom. Their Government is stable and their financial institutions are sound. They also allow FULL foreign ownership of property.

So, invest there, and live off the proceeds here. You are still living in Thailand and have solid investment growth there, without the risks that Thailand poses for a similar investment.

[harrry]

I'm sure you're right but... the wrong set of circumstances and it is v easy to lose.

I lost my life savings this way. Having bought a 30 year lease, I thought I was safe as it was all legal - bad mistake

I would not like to be in them shoes.

But I do not think I ever would, nobody should sink their life savings into a foreign country

I disagree. There are many foreign countries that are safe.

One country that comes to mind, in this region, is Australia. This country came though the GFC almost untouched, due to it's mineral resource boom. Their Government is stable and their financial institutions are sound. They also allow FULL foreign ownership of property.

So, invest there, and live off the proceeds here. You are still living in Thailand and have solid investment growth there, without the risks that Thailand poses for a similar investment.

There are controls on property for foreigners. They have introduced a rule that residential property must be new and not have been occupied previously to prevent investment of holiday homes for overseas people to preserve the rental stock. There is also foreign approval required for foreign purchasers. In general though it is quite easy and Australia is a fairly safe investment judging on the past.

[TaoNow]

In reply to Sophon and, perhaps, some others. A foreigner can "own" land if appointed as executor of his/her Thai spouse's estate.

After my Thai wife died a year ago (without leaving a will) I petitioned the court to be designated as "administrator of the property" of the deceased. The process took about three months and was straightforward -- no gimmicks.

I took the deed and court order to the local land office and had my name added to the deed. I was informed that I could now sell the land.

The catch: I could not be declared owner of the house which is on the land -- that would require a special appeal to the Minister of Interior. Thus, I cannot sell the house, just the land -- but with no intention to do so, the issue is moot for now.

[TwoDogz]

In reply to Sophon and, perhaps, some others. A foreigner can "own" land if appointed as executor of his/her Thai spouse's estate.

After my Thai wife died a year ago (without leaving a will) I petitioned the court to be designated as "administrator of the property" of the deceased. The process took about three months and was straightforward -- no gimmicks.

I took the deed and court order to the local land office and had my name added to the deed. I was informed that I could now sell the land.

The catch: I could not be declared owner of the house which is on the land -- that would require a special appeal to the Minister of Interior. Thus, I cannot sell the house, just the land -- but with no intention to do so, the issue is moot for now.

Jesus, thats a tad catch 22.

Can you keep the land indefinitely, or do you have to sell it ?

I presume if you went through the initial requirements when building to prove you own the house and get that document, whatever it is called, then owning and selling the house would be no issue.

[LivinginKata]

In reply to Sophon and, perhaps, some others. A foreigner can "own" land if appointed as executor of his/her Thai spouse's estate.

After my Thai wife died a year ago (without leaving a will) I petitioned the court to be designated as "administrator of the property" of the deceased. The process took about three months and was straightforward -- no gimmicks.

I took the deed and court order to the local land office and had my name added to the deed. I was informed that I could now sell the land.

The catch: I could not be declared owner of the house which is on the land -- that would require a special appeal to the Minister of Interior. Thus, I cannot sell the house, just the land -- but with no intention to do so, the issue is moot for now.

Thanks for that first hand information. I was under the impression that if my wife died then her land would temporarily be deeded to me (she has willed to me) but that I must sell on within a set time frame (one year was mentioned). As for the house, well the house is on the land so if you sell the land then the house come with it.

//apologies - we are going way off the original topic.

[TwoDogz]

In reply to Sophon and, perhaps, some others. A foreigner can "own" land if appointed as executor of his/her Thai spouse's estate.

After my Thai wife died a year ago (without leaving a will) I petitioned the court to be designated as "administrator of the property" of the deceased. The process took about three months and was straightforward -- no gimmicks.

I took the deed and court order to the local land office and had my name added to the deed. I was informed that I could now sell the land.

The catch: I could not be declared owner of the house which is on the land -- that would require a special appeal to the Minister of Interior. Thus, I cannot sell the house, just the land -- but with no intention to do so, the issue is moot for now.

Thanks for that first hand information. I was under the impression that if my wife died then her land would temporarily be deeded to me (she has willed to me) but that I must sell on within a set time frame (one year was mentioned). As for the house, well the house is on the land so if you sell the land then the house come with it.

Problem might be that house is/was in wifes name and house registration book and all that stuff.

So he has the land in his name but not the house and will cause hours of confusion at the land office. No doubt there is an issue with it just because its a foreigner with land, albeit by way of death.

but that seems the way, nothing easy.

[NamKangMan]

I'm sure you're right but... the wrong set of circumstances and it is v easy to lose.

I lost my life savings this way. Having bought a 30 year lease, I thought I was safe as it was all legal - bad mistake

I would not like to be in them shoes.

But I do not think I ever would, nobody should sink their life savings into a foreign country

I disagree. There are many foreign countries that are safe.

One country that comes to mind, in this region, is Australia. This country came though the GFC almost untouched, due to it's mineral resource boom. Their Government is stable and their financial institutions are sound. They also allow FULL foreign ownership of property.

So, invest there, and live off the proceeds here. You are still living in Thailand and have solid investment growth there, without the risks that Thailand poses for a similar investment.

There are controls on property for foreigners. They have introduced a rule that residential property must be new and not have been occupied previously to prevent investment of holiday homes for overseas people to preserve the rental stock. There is also foreign approval required for foreign purchasers. In general though it is quite easy and Australia is a fairly safe investment judging on the past.

This is news to me, but I accept what you have said. In The States, a foreigner can buy an older residential property, no problem.

In any case, it's a lot more secure than "purchasing" property in Thailand.

[TaoNow]

(sorry OP and Mod if still off-topic)

I asked the land officer to explain why I could sell the land but not the house. She explained that the Thai government views the house as something that is reserved for Thai citizens only (as it is considered a Thai asset). I would have thought the opposite, i.e., that the land should be more important than what's on it. (Don't say TIT, please!)

Perhaps, as TwoDogz suggests, the issue is tied in with the house registration and other legal links to the house proper.

In my experience after 35 years here, there is ALWAYS a rational explanation for Thai laws. They are not arbitrary.

[davejones]

I agree that some have made money here, in property, in the past, however, I would argue that those days are over.

A quick look at one real estate agent's website, Siam Real Estate, shows, currently, they have 452 houses for sale and 199 condos for sale, on Phuket.

Why so many for sale, if property is such a good investment, either for a capital gain, or for renting out????

How long have the majority of these properties been on the market, waiting for a buyer????

It looks like these owners are going to be the ones left "holding the can."

That time was always coming. It looks like it's here now.

Yes, I agree with this as well. But even in a market like this you can still find very distressed buyers and make money on the deal.

I think we are in general agreement about the property market here. The only things we differ on are...

1) I think you can still find good deals, even though they are hard to find.

2) I would buy if I stayed long-term, but that is my choice. It would be a home not an investment. That's a very important distinction. I would even pay above market price for the perfect home in the perfect location if I had to. Making a profit doesn't matter to me in those circumstances. But would I do the same for an investment? No way.

I think you mean "distressed sellers" - not "distressed buyers."

If property is such a good "investment" here, why are there "distressed sellers?"

Are they "distressed" because there are no buyers????

Why are there no buyers????

Like I said, it looks like the "owners" and sellers of the hundreds and hundreds of properties on the market here now will be the ones "left holding the can" - and guess what, they are still building hundreds of more properties. This will cause even more "distressed sellers."

Even if you bought a property at rock bottom price, if it takes years to on-sell it and you have problems renting it out, what good is it to you when the cash you paid for it would have made more in interest, sitting in a bank, whilst you sit back taking no risk at all????

Yes, I meant distressed sellers. LOL.

I didn't say that buying property here at the moment is a good investment - I think it is mostly a bad investment right now. You originally said something along the lines that Thailand and investment shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence. I am merely pointing out that this is wrong. Regarding property I'm saying it's possible to invest successfully here, but I'm not saying it's easy? Why are there distressed sellers? There are lots of reasons, such as needing cash quickly. Even the best property markets in the world have distressed sellers. Why are there no buyers? I have to laugh a little at this one. 100,000+ properties are sold every years in Thailand, so people are buying. But I don't think it's a great market. In Bangkok I think it's particularly bad, but still you can find good deals. In bad markets everywhere there are still deals to be had and money to be made. Usually the main reason that properties don't sell is because they are overpriced and the sellers won't drop the price. ALL properties will sell at the right price.

I read an interesting article at the weekend about property supply in Pattaya and Bangkok. It reckoned that if all building in Pattaya was topped right now, then existing empty units would sell out in 3.5 months (assuming current sales rates). In Bangkok it would take over 20 months to shift all outstanding units. And considering that many more are being built in Bangkok I'd say the market won't pick up an time soon. But in Pattaya many building are selling out quickly and the demand is pretty good, with Thai buyers now making up the majority of buyers. Who knows if the market in Pattaya will crash any time soon, but at the moment it seems pretty strong, and has been for a few years.

It is often in bad markets that you get the best bargains. e.g. after the crash started in 2008, there were some bargains of a lifetime in the London property market. Many people have already mad a fortune in just a few short years.

You seem to have a black and white belief where things are either good or bad with nothing in between. I believe that there are micro-markets within markets and bargains to be had all over if you look hard enough. I have heard similar things from other people on my life, mostly in the UK. But I have my own plan and it has always worked and continues to work.

But there are people that buy property in Bangkok that think that they can buy anything and that it is bound to go up. I think some of those will lose lots of money because they are buying at over-inflated prices. But there are many cash buyers here and that in itself can keep prices up, as they are in no hurry to sell. The markets that tend to crash are the ones where people have borrowed too much, can't pay it back and are forced to sell. That's much less likely to happen here. Although all the excess stock could start driving prices down.

Regarding buying at rock bottom prices and not being able to sell, and making more from interest in the bank, you have a point. But I mean buying at 50% of true value. e.g. buy a 5m baht property for 2.5m. Put 2.5m in the bank and earn 4% interest and it will take you around 18 years to get to 5m. So if I could sell at full price in the next 5 -10 years I would have a real bargain. If I could rent it, even better. But I would never do this in a building that wasn't pretty full. None of this is easy, but I know people here have done it. It's quite specialized, but possible.

So where I disagree with you is that you claim all investment in Thailand is bad, when clearly that is not the case. Yes, people lose money, but they do everywhere. Just look how many businesses go bust in USA and UK. No country is 100% safe and no country is 100% unsafe. Depends what you want as an individual. You have probably made the right choice for your situation, but don't assume it's the right choice for everyone else.

[davejones]

(sorry OP and Mod if still off-topic)

I asked the land officer to explain why I could sell the land but not the house. She explained that the Thai government views the house as something that is reserved for Thai citizens only (as it is considered a Thai asset). I would have thought the opposite, i.e., that the land should be more important than what's on it. (Don't say TIT, please!)

Perhaps, as TwoDogz suggests, the issue is tied in with the house registration and other legal links to the house proper.

In my experience after 35 years here, there is ALWAYS a rational explanation for Thai laws. They are not arbitrary.

So who owns the house at the moment? I assume you are allowed to keep living there. It all sounds a bit confusing. I hope it all works out well for you.

[TwoDogz]

(sorry OP and Mod if still off-topic)

I asked the land officer to explain why I could sell the land but not the house. She explained that the Thai government views the house as something that is reserved for Thai citizens only (as it is considered a Thai asset). I would have thought the opposite, i.e., that the land should be more important than what's on it. (Don't say TIT, please!)

Perhaps, as TwoDogz suggests, the issue is tied in with the house registration and other legal links to the house proper.

In my experience after 35 years here, there is ALWAYS a rational explanation for Thai laws. They are not arbitrary.

I would say talk to another land officer if you can, because that sounds simply not true.

The foreigner, any foreigner, can own the house on the land, many examples of this all over the place, but never the land under it. Unless under your circumstances.

I remember reading that a similar circumstance where the wife died and the foreigner was granted the land title, but not sure if he was only given the title for 12 months and had to sell within that time, which is what I have heard many times to be the case.

I seem to recall where a foreigner was allowed to stay as it was willed to him and as the administrator of her will, he could stay and be on the title indefinitely, it may have also had something to do with the family home and children, but the kids were not involved on the title, thats a different situation.

I would like to know if you were told or are allowed to stay indefinitely as the now titled owner of the land, or only the 12 months.

[NamKangMan]

I agree that some have made money here, in property, in the past, however, I would argue that those days are over.

A quick look at one real estate agent's website, Siam Real Estate, shows, currently, they have 452 houses for sale and 199 condos for sale, on Phuket.

Why so many for sale, if property is such a good investment, either for a capital gain, or for renting out????

How long have the majority of these properties been on the market, waiting for a buyer????

It looks like these owners are going to be the ones left "holding the can."

That time was always coming. It looks like it's here now.

Yes, I agree with this as well. But even in a market like this you can still find very distressed buyers and make money on the deal.

I think we are in general agreement about the property market here. The only things we differ on are...

1) I think you can still find good deals, even though they are hard to find.

2) I would buy if I stayed long-term, but that is my choice. It would be a home not an investment. That's a very important distinction. I would even pay above market price for the perfect home in the perfect location if I had to. Making a profit doesn't matter to me in those circumstances. But would I do the same for an investment? No way.

I think you mean "distressed sellers" - not "distressed buyers."

If property is such a good "investment" here, why are there "distressed sellers?"

Are they "distressed" because there are no buyers????

Why are there no buyers????

Like I said, it looks like the "owners" and sellers of the hundreds and hundreds of properties on the market here now will be the ones "left holding the can" - and guess what, they are still building hundreds of more properties. This will cause even more "distressed sellers."

Even if you bought a property at rock bottom price, if it takes years to on-sell it and you have problems renting it out, what good is it to you when the cash you paid for it would have made more in interest, sitting in a bank, whilst you sit back taking no risk at all????

Yes, I meant distressed sellers. LOL.

I didn't say that buying property here at the moment is a good investment - I think it is mostly a bad investment right now. You originally said something along the lines that Thailand and investment shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence. I am merely pointing out that this is wrong. Regarding property I'm saying it's possible to invest successfully here, but I'm not saying it's easy? Why are there distressed sellers? There are lots of reasons, such as needing cash quickly. Even the best property markets in the world have distressed sellers. Why are there no buyers? I have to laugh a little at this one. 100,000+ properties are sold every years in Thailand, so people are buying. But I don't think it's a great market. In Bangkok I think it's particularly bad, but still you can find good deals. In bad markets everywhere there are still deals to be had and money to be made. Usually the main reason that properties don't sell is because they are overpriced and the sellers won't drop the price. ALL properties will sell at the right price.

I read an interesting article at the weekend about property supply in Pattaya and Bangkok. It reckoned that if all building in Pattaya was topped right now, then existing empty units would sell out in 3.5 months (assuming current sales rates). In Bangkok it would take over 20 months to shift all outstanding units. And considering that many more are being built in Bangkok I'd say the market won't pick up an time soon. But in Pattaya many building are selling out quickly and the demand is pretty good, with Thai buyers now making up the majority of buyers. Who knows if the market in Pattaya will crash any time soon, but at the moment it seems pretty strong, and has been for a few years.

It is often in bad markets that you get the best bargains. e.g. after the crash started in 2008, there were some bargains of a lifetime in the London property market. Many people have already mad a fortune in just a few short years.

You seem to have a black and white belief where things are either good or bad with nothing in between. I believe that there are micro-markets within markets and bargains to be had all over if you look hard enough. I have heard similar things from other people on my life, mostly in the UK. But I have my own plan and it has always worked and continues to work.

But there are people that buy property in Bangkok that think that they can buy anything and that it is bound to go up. I think some of those will lose lots of money because they are buying at over-inflated prices. But there are many cash buyers here and that in itself can keep prices up, as they are in no hurry to sell. The markets that tend to crash are the ones where people have borrowed too much, can't pay it back and are forced to sell. That's much less likely to happen here. Although all the excess stock could start driving prices down.

Regarding buying at rock bottom prices and not being able to sell, and making more from interest in the bank, you have a point. But I mean buying at 50% of true value. e.g. buy a 5m baht property for 2.5m. Put 2.5m in the bank and earn 4% interest and it will take you around 18 years to get to 5m. So if I could sell at full price in the next 5 -10 years I would have a real bargain. If I could rent it, even better. But I would never do this in a building that wasn't pretty full. None of this is easy, but I know people here have done it. It's quite specialized, but possible.

So where I disagree with you is that you claim all investment in Thailand is bad, when clearly that is not the case. Yes, people lose money, but they do everywhere. Just look how many businesses go bust in USA and UK. No country is 100% safe and no country is 100% unsafe. Depends what you want as an individual. You have probably made the right choice for your situation, but don't assume it's the right choice for everyone else.

You neglected to mention the part about a foreigner can not own land here without using some dodgy loopholes that could be closed, or tightened up, overnight, in Bangkok. There's no security in an investment with such volatility.

Put quite simply, you can't invest in something you do not truly own - for a foreigner, there's no getting over that in Thailand, when it comes to Thai land.

Using your example, my 2.5 million baht in a foreign bank, earning 5% interest is mine, all mine, and available at anytime I want it. It's not in a bank account that has to have "nominees" in a company structure blah blah blah blah.

Funny how there are many "distressed sellers" here but no distressed renters. :) :)

[NamKangMan]

(sorry OP and Mod if still off-topic)

I asked the land officer to explain why I could sell the land but not the house. She explained that the Thai government views the house as something that is reserved for Thai citizens only (as it is considered a Thai asset). I would have thought the opposite, i.e., that the land should be more important than what's on it. (Don't say TIT, please!)

Perhaps, as TwoDogz suggests, the issue is tied in with the house registration and other legal links to the house proper.

In my experience after 35 years here, there is ALWAYS a rational explanation for Thai laws. They are not arbitrary.

Well, the French guy in the OP thought he actually had a legal land title, so, I suppose anything is possible in Thailand, or should I say, Thailand's subsidiary country, Phuket. :) :)

[davejones]

You neglected to mention the part about a foreigner can not own land here without using some dodgy loopholes that could be closed, or tightened up, overnight, in Bangkok. There's no security in an investment with such volatility.

Put quite simply, you can't invest in something you do not truly own - for a foreigner, there's no getting over that in Thailand, when it comes to Thai land.

Using your example, my 2.5 million baht in a foreign bank, earning 5% interest is mine, all mine, and available at anytime I want it. It's not in a bank account that has to have "nominees" in a company structure blah blah blah blah.

Funny how there are many "distressed sellers" here but no distressed renters.

Well you don't have to buy land. You can buy a condo in your own name. I would never buy a house here using some complicated ownership structure. That is asking for trouble.

the 2.5m example - you can't have the money anytime you like, because you would be using the interest to pay your rent. Spend the money and you don't have enough for rent.

I still think we are in basic agreement. Property market here is not great and I have no intention of buying anytime soon, if ever.

[davejones]

(sorry OP and Mod if still off-topic)

I asked the land officer to explain why I could sell the land but not the house. She explained that the Thai government views the house as something that is reserved for Thai citizens only (as it is considered a Thai asset). I would have thought the opposite, i.e., that the land should be more important than what's on it. (Don't say TIT, please!)

Perhaps, as TwoDogz suggests, the issue is tied in with the house registration and other legal links to the house proper.

In my experience after 35 years here, there is ALWAYS a rational explanation for Thai laws. They are not arbitrary.

Well, the French guy in the OP thought he actually had a legal land title, so, I suppose anything is possible in Thailand, or should I say, Thailand's subsidiary country, Phuket.

So, in what country would you invest in property and why?

[NamKangMan]

You neglected to mention the part about a foreigner can not own land here without using some dodgy loopholes that could be closed, or tightened up, overnight, in Bangkok. There's no security in an investment with such volatility.

Put quite simply, you can't invest in something you do not truly own - for a foreigner, there's no getting over that in Thailand, when it comes to Thai land.

Using your example, my 2.5 million baht in a foreign bank, earning 5% interest is mine, all mine, and available at anytime I want it. It's not in a bank account that has to have "nominees" in a company structure blah blah blah blah.

Funny how there are many "distressed sellers" here but no distressed renters.

Well you don't have to buy land. You can buy a condo in your own name. I would never buy a house here using some complicated ownership structure. That is asking for trouble.

the 2.5m example - you can't have the money anytime you like, because you would be using the interest to pay your rent. Spend the money and you don't have enough for rent.

I still think we are in basic agreement. Property market here is not great and I have no intention of buying anytime soon, if ever.

Ahhhh, does the condo float in the air???? The block sits on Thai land, further complicating things for the foreigner owner. 51% must be Thai owned blah blah blah blah. Also, management fees have to be paid for a condo, and in some cases, these fees can be ridiculously high.

The 2.5 million baht IS available to me at anytime. Who said anything about "spending" it???? If a bank is offering 6% instead of 5% - I can close one account and open another and deposit my cash. Or, if I die, that cash is available, after probate, to my kids. After all, I wouldn't want myself, or my kids to become "distressed sellers." :) :)

[NamKangMan]

(sorry OP and Mod if still off-topic)

I asked the land officer to explain why I could sell the land but not the house. She explained that the Thai government views the house as something that is reserved for Thai citizens only (as it is considered a Thai asset). I would have thought the opposite, i.e., that the land should be more important than what's on it. (Don't say TIT, please!)

Perhaps, as TwoDogz suggests, the issue is tied in with the house registration and other legal links to the house proper.

In my experience after 35 years here, there is ALWAYS a rational explanation for Thai laws. They are not arbitrary.

Well, the French guy in the OP thought he actually had a legal land title, so, I suppose anything is possible in Thailand, or should I say, Thailand's subsidiary country, Phuket.

So, in what country would you invest in property and why?

There are many countries I would invest in.

Basically, I'm happy to invest in a country that has a stable Government.

A country that has a stable economy.

A country where the Rule of Law is upheld through a funtional judicial system and is not rife with corruption.

A country where a foreigner can hold a "guaranteed legitimate" land title, freehold, 100% ownership, in their name.

A country that has stringent building codes that must be met for the construction and use of materials for a residential dwelling, including geotech.

A country that uses qualified surveyors, setting out, exactly, what and where my parcel of land is.

A country that has "zoning" laws so a pig farm can not be built next to your property 6 months after you buy it.

A country that can supply proper water supply, sewage and storm water services that are attached to the property.

A country that has good infastructure. Eg. medical, education, policing, transport, electric etc.

A country that allows me to take out any capital gain (profit) made on the sale of that investment property, without and problems.

A country that offers permanent residency, or modern visa laws, and where you do not have to report every 90 days to an immigration office, like a criminal on bail.

These are just off the top of my head, but, as you can see, Thailand does not even meet my basic requirements for the "purchase" of a house to live in, or the "purchase" of an "investment" property. :)

[MAJIC]

I expect they will compensate the French guy at the going market rate, being as how its not his fault.

Wishful thinking? or was that a tongue in cheek comment!

[davejones]

(sorry OP and Mod if still off-topic)

I asked the land officer to explain why I could sell the land but not the house. She explained that the Thai government views the house as something that is reserved for Thai citizens only (as it is considered a Thai asset). I would have thought the opposite, i.e., that the land should be more important than what's on it. (Don't say TIT, please!)

Perhaps, as TwoDogz suggests, the issue is tied in with the house registration and other legal links to the house proper.

In my experience after 35 years here, there is ALWAYS a rational explanation for Thai laws. They are not arbitrary.

Well, the French guy in the OP thought he actually had a legal land title, so, I suppose anything is possible in Thailand, or should I say, Thailand's subsidiary country, Phuket.

So, in what country would you invest in property and why?

There are many countries I would invest in.

Basically, I'm happy to invest in a country that has a stable Government.

A country that has a stable economy.

A country where the Rule of Law is upheld through a funtional judicial system and is not rife with corruption.

A country where a foreigner can hold a "guaranteed legitimate" land title, freehold, 100% ownership, in their name.

A country that has stringent building codes that must be met for the construction and use of materials for a residential dwelling, including geotech.

A country that uses qualified surveyors, setting out, exactly, what and where my parcel of land is.

A country that has "zoning" laws so a pig farm can not be built next to your property 6 months after you buy it.

A country that can supply proper water supply, sewage and storm water services that are attached to the property.

A country that has good infastructure. Eg. medical, education, policing, transport, electric etc.

A country that allows me to take out any capital gain (profit) made on the sale of that investment property, without and problems.

A country that offers permanent residency, or modern visa laws, and where you do not have to report every 90 days to an immigration office, like a criminal on bail.

These are just off the top of my head, but, as you can see, Thailand does not even meet my basic requirements for the "purchase" of a house to live in, or the "purchase" of an "investment" property.

But does such a country exsist? Spain has all/most of those things but people still have property taken from them due to corruption that they weren't involved in. A country with a stable economy? Good luck with finding one of those.

So no, need to give me a big list, but just wondering where you would exists e.g. USA, UK?

But you have still missed my point - which is that there are still some great investment opportunities in all markets, even Thailand. Even if you are more likely to lose money in Thailand that USA (for example), it doesn't follow that you will lose money. But as part of a balance portfolio, it suits many people and the make money. Your original point that no-one should invest in Thailand is clearly wrong. The investment climate here doesn't suit you, but it does suit others. This is my last post because you don't seem to understand my point. You just keep repeating that buying property is unsafe, etc. But I agree that investing in property here isn't great (in most cases). You seem to be denying that anyone makes money here, when people clearly do. Do you actually know anyone that has their condo taken off them? I doubt it.

[davejones]

A country that offers permanent residency, or modern visa laws, and where you do not have to report every 90 days to an immigration office, like a criminal on bail.

The above requirement alone probably narrrows the country down to your home country (assuming it meets everything else on your list). If you invest in Thailand, you do not have to report to immigration every 90 days, because you do no even need to live here. e.g. You can live in USA and invest in Thailand, as many people do. I invested here when I lived in the UK and didn't even have to come to Thailand. I think you are someone that is a bit too scared to invest anywhere. I am happy that I am making money while you are getting your 4% bank interest and seeing the principal amount being eaten away by inflation. The 2.5m in the example will be worthless if you live another 20+ years. Inflation will have seen to that.