Like It Or Not, Corruption Is The Name Of The Game In Thailand

[jackr]

And the scary part, is that on so many levels, it feels as if Thailand is going backwards. I wish I could say the future looked bright for this lovely country, but I simply cannot see it. Here are just a few of the reasons I feel this way:

1. Declining educational standards, especially when compared to other countries in the region, who take education seriously.

2. Lack of a fight against corruption. Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Vietnam, and even to a smaller extent India, and the Philippines are at least waging a battle. Here, the anti corruption chief was just relieved of his job, as he was too effective, and was getting to close to the centers of power!

3. The competence of the government. Since the system here is entirely based on cronyism, and not meritocracy, there is little chance of getting people to do jobs they are good at. It is that simple. Incompetence is the order of the day. Always has been. Always will be, if the system does not change.

4. Flooding issues. They are only going to get worse with global warming, and the rising of the sea, and is Thailand prepared for it? They have refused help from the Dutch govt. (very talented and skilled engineers, with decades of experience), the US Corp. of Engineers, and others. Is the govt. really serious about tackling this issue? Do they have what it takes? Are they willing to reach out, or will they use only homegrown talent, which is substandard?

5. Shrinking economy. Thailand was #21 in the world just 5 years ago. They are now #25. This trend will continue. There is little being done to reverse it.

6. Traffic issues. Thailand has some of the most lax driving laws in the world. No helmets required in Samui, and 10 year old kids are permitted to drive motorbikes. Speed limits are rarely enforced, and anyone with some cash can buy their way out of any traffic related problem or accident, even if it caused death. Samui averages 60 traffic related deaths per month! Highest in the world, per capita. Not something you see in the media much. Nobody wants to discuss it.

7. That brings us to issue #7. Law enforcement. The police in Thailand are basically a revenue collection agency. Very, very little law enforcement. The quality of the detective work, and the forensic work is on par with Sub Saharan Africa, from what I have been told by well informed sources in law enforcement, outside of Thailand. For the #25 economy in the world, this is shameful, and the result of tremendous sloth, indifference, corruption, and ineptitude. Regardless, it remains one of the truly great blights, in this otherwise delightful country.

8. Local mores, ethics, and attitudes. Though the Thai people have many wonderful qualities, that many of us appreciate, their attitudes toward business, and tourism are hard to fathom. They nearly always, will choose to do the wrong thing, when it comes to customer service, or maintaining a relationship, if it means a few extra baht today. No ability to see the forest beyond the trees. Very, very little of the vision thing. It is a tremendous detriment to doing business here, and in the long run damages the tourism industry to a fabulous extent.

9. Tourism. For the above stated reasons, there is a real PR problem, when it comes to Thai tourism. The governments, both central, and local seem to be either unwilling, or unable to tackle the issues with taxis, tuk-tuks, jet skis, and other scams here, and it is resulting in huge damage to the industry. They are making up for it to some extent by attracting the Russian, Chinese, and Korean markets, but these are not the high rollers that Thailand need to thrive in the long run.

10. Saving face. Perhaps Thailand's single most destructive quality. It forces people to bury problems under the carpet. How can you resolve an issue, if it causes you embarrassment? Who cares. Suck it up, man up, and deal with it. Not here. Not now. Rarely ever. Avoid the issue, whatever you do, do not discuss it, and pretend it will go away. It is a society of 13 year old boys, in men's bodies, who behave like 13 year old boys, and have the emotional development of 13 year old boys. I am sure there are some exceptions. Maybe 11% of the society? LOL.

If you don't like it, go home. lol.

I agree wholeheartedly, especially the '13 year old boys, in men's bodies' mentality, and would add that the hypocrisy of those ardent 'Buddhists'--waiing Buddha one minute, shafting people the next, together with lashings of 'desire'--has to be about the most grating side-issue. IMO, the place needs a big boot up the arse to bring it into line; a reality check if you will. A good war would do it and our mate Burma would be the perfect antagonist... AGAIN.

[Arkady]

The attitude to corruption is like Bangkokians' former attitude to non-metered taxis. They all thought they had an edge in bargaining prices with taxi drivers due to their inside knowledge of the streets of Bangkok and cleverness in bargaining and resisted the introduction of meters which they were sure would make them pay more. After a while they realised they had been overpaying for taxis and hadn't had an edge at all. The non-metered taxis were shooed away and soon had to be scrapped.

Even common or garden Thais have a strange belief that corruption benefits them because they have connections or are terribly clever in dealing with corrupt officials. The reality is that corruption only benefits a small minority of crooks and makes the population as a whole significantly poorer as well as making for an unfair society without justice for the poor and lower middle class. I don't see anything on the horizon that it is going to make people realise that they need to unite to oust corrupt politicians and civil servants in the way the South Koreans have done.

[jackr]

Might want to take some lessons from the the British MPs and all the Banks involved in the Libor scandal. Time some TV Members got off their holier than thou hobby horse and looked at what else is going on in the way of BIG corruption in the rest of the World, from so called developed Countries!

That's the banks; they're all greedy, conniving bastards, everywhere! At the end of the day, the entire monetary system is a corrupt entity on the take. This thread is regard to ordinary folk, and ole Muang Thai folk seem particularly adept/accepting of corruption right across the board.

[rockyysdt]

A morally bankrupt country!

Show me a country in the world in which there is no corruption.

You'll find corruption universal, only more sophisticated or less obvious in other countries.

[jellykookabanj]

A morally bankrupt country!

Every country has it's fill of corruption so we Farang have no right to overly critcize. The ONLY fifference between us and them is that the corruption in Asia is far more open and in fact is welcomed by most Farang. Driving offences as an example, in UK biggish fine and points on your license over here, couple hundred baht usually does the trick. I know which system I prefer.

[Nigel1500]

Yeah ... but they're running second or third to our corrupt governments in the West.

[wooly]

Just another form of tipping

Tips acronym - To Insure Prompt Service

I thought this was an interesting perception, and something I had never considered before. In a lot of cases,this is, in effect, true - and let's face it, it works, because in many of those cases we have the option to pay for fast service; or dare I say it 'exceptional' service, or not tip for normal service. Where corruption starts to become really unacceptable is when a BIB stops your vehicle, shoves his hand through the window and simply states "money" - and it is actually now regarded as being perfectly normal.

Don't even get me started on the level of scamming/cheating that goes on in Thailand; where, IMHO, every single person is considered to be 'fair-game'. Thais even cheat each other - so what chance have we farangs/aliens got?

[simple1]

Just another form of tipping

Tips acronym - To Insure Prompt Service

I thought this was an interesting perception, and something I had never considered before. In a lot of cases,this is, in effect, true - and let's face it, it works, because in many of those cases we have the option to pay for fast service; or dare I say it 'exceptional' service, or not tip for normal service. Where corruption starts to become really unacceptable is when a BIB stops your vehicle, shoves his hand through the window and simply states "money" - and it is actually now regarded as being perfectly normal.

Don't even get me started on the level of scamming/cheating that goes on in Thailand; where, IMHO, every single person is considered to be 'fair-game'. Thais even cheat each other - so what chance have we farangs/aliens got?

Thais also have to pay tea money for prompt service for utilities, documentation from government agencies etc It's also endemic for Thais e.g. abbreviated conversation with TOT

TOT: You need a phone line connected to your mothers house

Wife: yes

TOT: waiting time six months

Wife: need it sooner as my mother is sick

TOT: waiting time six months

Wife: how much?

TOT: 1,000 baht, plus connection charges; connect within one week,

1,000 baht given to TOT staff member & she put it in her pocket

[DocN]

Mai pen rai...bai gin khao!

[FarangTalk]

Driving offences as an example, in UK biggish fine and points on your license over here, couple hundred baht usually does the trick. I know which system I prefer.

I wonder if you would be saying the same if your daughter was run down by a drunk-driver and the driver escaped punishment?

Or if another driver at fault smashed into your vehicle and drove off, merely paying a petty fine to the Police for the inconvenience.

Corruption is great until you become a victim of it yourself.

[AnkertilBrewer]

I don't know why we should make such a big deal of this. Corruption is what drives US conservative politics, drags the rest of the world into horrific conflicts, and rapes the 3rd World of it's resources. Relatively speaking, Thai corruption is for the most part localised. US corruption global.

This is spot on. Corruption exists everywhere and it's like a cancer that's destroying everything. In China, where corruption appears to me to be much mover vicious than here, most everyone accepts it and engages in it with the justification that they are getting so screwed from above that they needs to screw over anyone else they can just to break even.

In China you need to pay a bribe to get a good job.

However, as Technikall pointed out, we have corruption in America as well, which cause the economic crisis. All that crooked banking was extremely corrupt, and they got away with it. The difference is that we are much better at hiding our corruption in America. In Asia sometimes people flaunt being corrupt to show their power. Obviously, in America one isn't expected to pay a bribe to get a job, but there are other ways to cheat, exploit and take advantage of the less privileged and fortunate.

[kinmaew]

Wow! sounds like a great place for a farang to do business and invest his life savings!!

Just cant wait to "Buy"some land, establish a life and business and then have the owner come and take everything and destroy my life. Thailand you are my number one investment destination!!! Give me an account and I will deposit $1m now!!

[Andre0720]

Thailand is the master of the universe when it comes to the sex trade. The sex trade sets the bar for social thought and behavior. As long as society tolerates rampant pervasive participation in the sex trade by all levels of society whether declared professional or free lancer, then it's open season on a corrupted philosophy with limited values. The sex trade was really the first "international" scale enterprise of Thailand. Where foreigners would actually plan to travel here for sex. Long before that, Thailand specialized in sex trade for its domestic customers which geometrically dwarfs foreign sex trade today. Secondly, Thailand's history of cash real estate investment, sex trade and other black economy money sourced through the drug trade hub in Bangkok clearly links links the "corruption" factor.

The Thai "culture" of corruption and its escalation are its prescription for becoming an official "failed state" with endless refills. No other country takes Thailand seriously as a "legitimate" business partner and camps in here because they can freely play the corruption, payoff, bribery scheme with cheap labor and limited benefits or negative ramifications and bought off politicians and government organizations. Because everything can be bought out for a lower cost than the cost of making it right. Thailand's "Mr. 20%s" start out right away slicing in to a new business venture's margins right after a BOI intro or even before. Then comes the squeezing of profits at the expense of safety, benefits, and fair play with employees.

As this philosophy of corruption continues to eat away at government, police and military organizations, they become less and less able or willing to enforce law. The less that they enforce law, the more complacent about it all the regular folks get. The state then escalates to a Fascist type regime, and shortly thereafter becomes an "official" failed state. Thailand already meets many of the prerequisites for defining a failed state.

I cannot agree to that.

Try murder, rape, robbery, drugs, paedophilia, and you will realize that Thailand is able to enforce its laws (with the constraints of its resources).

This corruption is mainly applied to victimless crimes.

And, so as my friends in Thailand, I prefer this type of lifestyle to the one in our country. The police offer some flexibility instead of facing the official route of resolving legal conflicts. And the majority in Thailand prefer that as well.

[Dap]

Rarely does a day go by that I don't hear the word corruption being bandied about. So much so that I believe the word has lost it's impact. I have read figures that place the level of this corruption at 30 to 50% and this is simply unsustainable.I have a question.

At what point does corruption become theft ... 60 maybe 75 or 80%, or will it be when the system crashes? Just curious.

[Samedeepwaterasyou]

Thailand is built on corruption . If you tried to eradicate it ( even though it is never going to happen) , the whole country would come crashing down .

[blix99]

Is it really corruption if it is accepted and common? Corruption is like rules and laws in that the majority only have problems with either if they hurt or hinder them but tend to enjoy them when they benefit them.

Corruption is endemic in many poor SE Asian countries, It is simply the best, quickest and cheapest way to get things done. Despite it all, Thailand seems to be doing quite well economically.

[Dap]

Is it really corruption if it is accepted and common? Corruption is like rules and laws in that the majority only have problems with either if they hurt or hinder them but tend to enjoy them when they benefit them.

Corruption is endemic in many poor SE Asian countries, It is simply the best, quickest and cheapest way to get things done. Despite it all, Thailand seems to be doing quite well economically.

India on the other hand ...

[QualityTouristNumberOne]

sadly it's so true.....even all my Thai friends believe it's hopeless to fight the system...

I just wish I could put into words how corrupton destroys the countries soul and any

hope for the future......

I think you may be being a little dramatic here in terms of hope and soul of the country being lost. There is no country without accepted corruption. Do you really think in the west the rich and big business don't control the politicians and get away with harming the public for their profit or that if you are rich you get the same treatment (sentence) in court as a poor person. Every country has various degrees of corruption but in less developed ones the corruption is often more blatant and on a scale where less well off people can benefit from it too. As societies modernize the corruption is largely limited to the powerful at the expense of its citizens.

But not to worry, the wishes of many posters here, are not that far off in terms of Thailand becoming much more like the west where rules and regulations will strictly be enforced when it comes to the common folks.

You want to talk about soulless countries ... take a look at Singapore, one of the least corrupt countries in the world. A country that lacks any real character and filled with expressionless people moving from point A to point B.

Give me the 42nd Street of old and there is a place that had a soul and not some corporate over policed tourist magnet.

I agree with Nisa's main point here,

sadly for Thailand AND the rest of the World,corruption is endemic EVERYWHERE,

it may be a bizarre point to single out,but corruption is actually more FAIR in Thailand(if theres such a thing)as the average joe in a shitty position gets a shot at the trough,

in more "developed" countries it is only the scum who rise to the top of the pond who get to benefit from it,

as a sad example I am Irish and we just caught a shitload of top Irish coppers in a corruption expose,

not that many street level Garda,although when we were less "developed" Irish coppers(and cops with Irish blood in America and other countries) were as venal and corrupt as Thai cops are now.

Does this indicate a better system?

it may seem so at first as it doesn't hit you directly in the pocket like at the lowest scale a "no helmets" checkpoint,

or at the worst a cop getting caught trying to frame someone so a rich Red Bull exec gets literally away with Murder(or Manslaughter if you want to be picky)

but the systematic.systemic,and endemic corruption of politicians,top ranking cops,bankers,environmental "protection" agencies and the saddest of all-Doctors(cash for transplants,rich people getting better care,getting to the top of the list for transplants etc) is even more disturbing on a moral level for a country's heart and soul,

I agree with Hellodolly about more corrupt countries,

and humbly submit that Thailand is NOT the "most corrupt",

they are just more "innocent" about it(if such a concept exists with corruption),

and are just more inept about getting caught.

[atyclb]

Many rationalize corruption by saying every country has it, developed or undeveloped. Some they they benefit from everyone having access to it; bribe a cop for an infraction, etc. All rationalizations aside, the bottom line is without corruption Thai style, the relatively inexpensive sex/entertainment industry would not be inexpensive or nearly as big. If corruption were significantly reduced, walking street would become "ginza" and we need significantly bigger bulges in our pockets to be viewed as "hansum men"

[Chads]

As much as I've experienced and unhappy with the corruption problem in Thailand, it becomes a normal way of life when more than 2/3 of people don't take it as a problem. Pathetic, though.

And the scary part, is that on so many levels, it feels as if Thailand is going backwards. I wish I could say the future looked bright for this lovely country, but I simply cannot see it. Here are just a few of the reasons I feel this way:

1. Declining educational standards, especially when compared to other countries in the region, who take education seriously.

2. Lack of a fight against corruption. Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Vietnam, and even to a smaller extent India, and the Philippines are at least waging a battle. Here, the anti corruption chief was just relieved of his job, as he was too effective, and was getting to close to the centers of power!

3. The competence of the government. Since the system here is entirely based on cronyism, and not meritocracy, there is little chance of getting people to do jobs they are good at. It is that simple. Incompetence is the order of the day. Always has been. Always will be, if the system does not change.

4. Flooding issues. They are only going to get worse with global warming, and the rising of the sea, and is Thailand prepared for it? They have refused help from the Dutch govt. (very talented and skilled engineers, with decades of experience), the US Corp. of Engineers, and others. Is the govt. really serious about tackling this issue? Do they have what it takes? Are they willing to reach out, or will they use only homegrown talent, which is substandard?

5. Shrinking economy. Thailand was #21 in the world just 5 years ago. They are now #25. This trend will continue. There is little being done to reverse it.

6. Traffic issues. Thailand has some of the most lax driving laws in the world. No helmets required in Samui, and 10 year old kids are permitted to drive motorbikes. Speed limits are rarely enforced, and anyone with some cash can buy their way out of any traffic related problem or accident, even if it caused death. Samui averages 60 traffic related deaths per month! Highest in the world, per capita. Not something you see in the media much. Nobody wants to discuss it.

7. That brings us to issue #7. Law enforcement. The police in Thailand are basically a revenue collection agency. Very, very little law enforcement. The quality of the detective work, and the forensic work is on par with Sub Saharan Africa, from what I have been told by well informed sources in law enforcement, outside of Thailand. For the #25 economy in the world, this is shameful, and the result of tremendous sloth, indifference, corruption, and ineptitude. Regardless, it remains one of the truly great blights, in this otherwise delightful country.

8. Local mores, ethics, and attitudes. Though the Thai people have many wonderful qualities, that many of us appreciate, their attitudes toward business, and tourism are hard to fathom. They nearly always, will choose to do the wrong thing, when it comes to customer service, or maintaining a relationship, if it means a few extra baht today. No ability to see the forest beyond the trees. Very, very little of the vision thing. It is a tremendous detriment to doing business here, and in the long run damages the tourism industry to a fabulous extent.

9. Tourism. For the above stated reasons, there is a real PR problem, when it comes to Thai tourism. The governments, both central, and local seem to be either unwilling, or unable to tackle the issues with taxis, tuk-tuks, jet skis, and other scams here, and it is resulting in huge damage to the industry. They are making up for it to some extent by attracting the Russian, Chinese, and Korean markets, but these are not the high rollers that Thailand need to thrive in the long run.

10. Saving face. Perhaps Thailand's single most destructive quality. It forces people to bury problems under the carpet. How can you resolve an issue, if it causes you embarrassment? Who cares. Suck it up, man up, and deal with it. Not here. Not now. Rarely ever. Avoid the issue, whatever you do, do not discuss it, and pretend it will go away. It is a society of 13 year old boys, in men's bodies, who behave like 13 year old boys, and have the emotional development of 13 year old boys. I am sure there are some exceptions. Maybe 11% of the society? LOL.

And yet... Bangkok receives World's Best City Award 2012

[Bikeman93]

With the advent of the internet Thai people are becoming more aware of the level of corruption at younger ages. A tipping point has been reached and now will spiral until the country becomes totally disfunctional.

[farang000999]

I don't know why we should make such a big deal of this. Corruption is what drives US conservative politics, drags the rest of the world into horrific conflicts, and rapes the 3rd World of it's resources. Relatively speaking, Thai corruption is for the most part localised. US corruption global.

I think the point of the article is that 90-95% (whatever) of Westerns disapprove of this corruption and there are numerous groups/politicians working against it as opposed to Thai society where 75% think it's okay. Call it cultural I suppose.

[farang000999]

Try murder, rape, robbery, drugs, paedophilia, and you will realize that Thailand is able to enforce its laws (with the constraints of its resources).

This corruption is mainly applied to victimless crimes.

What? Every week on Thai Visa we here about a HiSo person killing someone and walking away from it. Nobody goes to prison in Thailand for anything if they can pay their way out.

[MAJIC]

One sometimes has to switch off reality (as we know it) in Thailand, if the name of the game: is that Corruption is

normal,and everyone is playing the same game, then as obscure and lacking in Morals, Ethics, and Integrity,

as it most certainly is,then let the Game be played according to the local Rules,free for all,grab as much as you can ideology, and Sod the losers!

Do I agree with this,different way of thinking? Of course not...................but then

[GeorgeO]

The survey suggests more than two thirds of Thai people think it is acceptable to lie .... so just one small thought.... I wonder what percentage of the 31.7 % that said they never lied were actually lying ?

Just over two thirds of them apparently....!!

[GeorgeO]

The overall issue of greed and corruption is a very sad indictment on the country as a whole, with the most worrying element of this being the acquiescent attitude of the younger generation.

But then again, I have seen for myself over the past ten years what goes on in the upper echelons in Thailand, and given that this is the example that these youngsters have been set, it's hardly surprising that they would have adopted such an attitude.

Nothing can change at the lower levels until those at the top start to lose their jobs once corruption is proven and are then required to repay the monies they have appropriated. But, of course, I dream...... who's going to prove the corruption when they're all in it together?!

[queanbeyan]

Interesting idea raised earlier - how do you define corruption? If Thai's accept and acknowledge that this is the way they are happy to live, then who are we to judge? Is it corrupt if everyone knows the rules and it's out in the open?

I have strong views on corruption - firstly there is two types - overt and covert. Overt is similar to the Thai system - everyone knows - nobody cares - a few hundred baht for a minor violation paid to police pockets etc, - tea money to the school - etc.

Covert is also around in Thailand and normally handles the big amounts - transfers of public money etc. The overt normally leads to the covert through excesses and greed. Both are bad systems. However these types of corruption are rampant accross all countries - just in different amounts and contexts. For example the political systems in many countries allow people to purchase the opportuntiy to have dinner with the PM or President - that is paid influence - corruption? - depends on who defines it.

One thing that I know about corruption in Thailand is that everyone can play and feel part of the real game. Unfortunately the rich hold all the power in corruption as it is the highest bidder that wins. Maybe the reason why the poor still play the corruption game is that it is the only way that they feel part of the bigger picture. Political reform is the solution to corruption - but how do you bring that about in a country where politics is the origin and cause of corruption.

Corruption began in Thailand in the 1850's (or close to it) when the provincal system was being set up - the local administrations were not paid by the central government and they would get paid by localised revenue schemes based on their performance in the local provinces. That system obviously didn't work. It is still around today in the rural schools and district offices where you can pay a teacher or a civil servant a little more to get what you want from them. If you dont pay - you wait - user pays at its ultimate outcome.

Just my few satangs worth.

[Nisa]

Just another form of tipping

Tips acronym - To Insure Prompt Service

I thought this was an interesting perception, and something I had never considered before. In a lot of cases,this is, in effect, true - and let's face it, it works, because in many of those cases we have the option to pay for fast service; or dare I say it 'exceptional' service, or not tip for normal service. Where corruption starts to become really unacceptable is when a BIB stops your vehicle, shoves his hand through the window and simply states "money" - and it is actually now regarded as being perfectly normal.

Don't even get me started on the level of scamming/cheating that goes on in Thailand; where, IMHO, every single person is considered to be 'fair-game'. Thais even cheat each other - so what chance have we farangs/aliens got?

Thais also have to pay tea money for prompt service for utilities, documentation from government agencies etc It's also endemic for Thais e.g. abbreviated conversation with TOT

TOT: You need a phone line connected to your mothers house

Wife: yes

TOT: waiting time six months

Wife: need it sooner as my mother is sick

TOT: waiting time six months

Wife: how much?

TOT: 1,000 baht, plus connection charges; connect within one week,

1,000 baht given to TOT staff member & she put it in her pocket

And in the west it is a more expensive "Expedite" or "Rush" fee imposed that goes to the corporation ... same same but more obvious here, less expensive and benefits a commoner.

Kind of like when using my air mileage, I would much prefer to pay somebody a few buck and help out some low paying worker than to have to use double my earned mileage to fly sometime in this millenium.

But again, not to worry, these small fees you can pay now to workers to get improved service will soon be much larger fees going directly to the corporations (to avoid corruption) ... clearly this is what so many people (expats) want ... they fled the west to come to Thailand with the goal of whining non-stop until things here become like the place they fled and as the do the curmudgeons will whine about the good ole days in Thailand and when things were simple and a couple extra baht under the table could get you preferred treatment and services.

[simple1]

Just another form of tipping

Tips acronym - To Insure Prompt Service

I thought this was an interesting perception, and something I had never considered before. In a lot of cases,this is, in effect, true - and let's face it, it works, because in many of those cases we have the option to pay for fast service; or dare I say it 'exceptional' service, or not tip for normal service. Where corruption starts to become really unacceptable is when a BIB stops your vehicle, shoves his hand through the window and simply states "money" - and it is actually now regarded as being perfectly normal.

Don't even get me started on the level of scamming/cheating that goes on in Thailand; where, IMHO, every single person is considered to be 'fair-game'. Thais even cheat each other - so what chance have we farangs/aliens got?

Thais also have to pay tea money for prompt service for utilities, documentation from government agencies etc It's also endemic for Thais e.g. abbreviated conversation with TOT

TOT: You need a phone line connected to your mothers house

Wife: yes

TOT: waiting time six months

Wife: need it sooner as my mother is sick

TOT: waiting time six months

Wife: how much?

TOT: 1,000 baht, plus connection charges; connect within one week,

1,000 baht given to TOT staff member & she put it in her pocket

And in the west it is a more expensive "Expedite" or "Rush" fee imposed that goes to the corporation ... same same but more obvious here, less expensive and benefits a commoner.

Kind of like when using my air mileage, I would much prefer to pay somebody a few buck and help out some low paying worker than to have to use double my earned mileage to fly sometime in this millenium.

But again, not to worry, these small fees you can pay now to workers to get improved service will soon be much larger fees going directly to the corporations (to avoid corruption) ... clearly this is what so many people (expats) want ... they fled the west to come to Thailand with the goal of whining non-stop until things here become like the place they fled and as the do the curmudgeons will whine about the good ole days in Thailand and when things were simple and a couple extra baht under the table could get you preferred treatment and services.

Not disagreeing with you regards transitioning to a western style service delivery model and the resultant outcomes

[Nisa]

Not disagreeing with you regards transitioning to a western style service delivery model and the resultant outcomes

And it seems to be happening fairly quickly too. I can't believe how much has changed here in the last 5 years (at least in the BKK) area. I can only imagine the changes much longer term residents have seen. Some of it good, some of it bad and some of it meaningless but clearly there seem to be a trend going towards control and conformity of the masses (that and Thais getting fat but that is a different topic unless McDonalds, Krispy Kreme and others have conspired w/the govt.). Be it strict laws on smoking to controlling the dress of taxi drivers or even helmet use ... lots of control issues happening and it is hard to complain when it saves lives (like helmets) but amazing how quickly some changes are happening from the more carefree society of taking care of yourself.

Personally I love going to some islands or other real tourist spots and not seeing any police and where people are free to work out there own issues and dealings and 99% of the time in a mutually satisfactory way. Sure it has some negative compared to were I am from and where you can go 5-minutes without see a cop looking to enforce (fine) somebody for breaking a law such as crossing a street in a non-cross walk.

Lots of downfalls to living here, as most places, but the one thing that has always made any negative be way overshadowed was the freedom and being able to work things out on a one-on-one basis without government involvement .... even when dealing with a cop here, you can often resolve your minor wrong doing without months of going to court, permanent record being marked and so on.

As for larger government corruption, I could care less who wins what contract as long as it doesn't involve the safety of the citizens but to be honest, I have really come to not care about this either because it is common practice all around the globe and until people rise up in violent protest (only to start a new corrupt government cycle), nothing will change.