Uk Born Child With Dual Nationality Which Passports Do We Use To Get Out And In Uk/thailand

[lee70]

Hi

Myself and wife are settled in Uk and we have a two month old baby and will obtain both Uk and Thai passports for our daughter.We are going to Thailand before Xmas and my wife will stay with my daughter in Thailand for seven weeks.My wife seems to think that my daughter can use her Thai passport to exit the UK and enter Thailand.I assume that we would need to use the Uk one to exit LHR and her Thai one on arrival in Bangkok.

If someone out there could let me know hwo the dual nationality passport works for a child it would be appreciated.

[somtumlion]

You are right, your wife is wrong. Carry both at all times. Entering or leaving UK - use UK passport, Thailand Thai passport.

[phuketphil]

Hi

Thai passport at LHR airline check in and arrival at BKK immigration. Brit passport at BKK airline check in, Thai passport at Thai immigration. Brit one when back in LHR immigration.

Phil

[phuketphil]

Because your wife and child are staying for seven weeks in LOS the airline would be looking for a visa in the Brit passport at LHR. So always carry both.

Phil

[7by7]

Indeed.

UK to Thailand:-

The airline will want to know that the passenger will be allowed in at the other end, so when checking in to leave the UK show them the Thai passport.

If required, unlikely, show British passport to UK immigration on leaving to show she hasn't overstayed.

On arrival in Thailand show Thai immigration, and get entry stamp in, her Thai passport.

Thailand to UK:-

Checking in, show airline British passport.

Show Thai immigration, and get exit stamp in, Thai passport.

On arrival in UK, show UK immigration her British passport.

[lee70]

Thanks for the advice. It seems like my wife is correct.

However it does seem strange to me that when leaving the UK we may not need to show my daughter's Uk passport to immigration.I suppose that on entering Bangkok ,Thai immigration will want to see an exit stamp on my daughter's passport so it sort of makes sense that she should show the Thai passport to get out of the UK.

[Maestro]

You are still a bit confused, so let's take it once more chronologically, step by step.

1. Departure from UK

1.1. At check-in, show both passports. The Thai passport serves to prove that no visa for travel to Thailand is needed.

1.2. To the immigration officer, show the UK passport if a passport has to be shown.

2. Arrival in Thailand

2.1. To the immigration officer, show the Thai passport if a passport has to be shown. (I read that there is an automated pass-through for Thai citizens, but don't know how this works)

3. Departure from Thailand

3.1. At check-in, show both passports. The UK passport serves to prove that no visa for travel to the UK is needed.

3.2. To the immigration officer, show the Thai passport.

4. Arrival in UK

4.1. To the immigration officer, show the UK passport if a passport has to be shown.

The basic rules are:

1. At check-in, show both passports at both airports.

2. To immigration officers, show the UK passport when leaving and entering the UK, show the Thai passport when entering and leaving Thailand.

[phuketphil]

Lee

My wife and daughter both hold duel nationality and two passports. Have never shown Thai passport to UK immigration on leaving UK only the Airline check in staff for validity of long stay in LOS. Your daughter will have no problems if you follow the advice given.

Phil

[samran]

Thanks for the advice. It seems like my wife is correct.

However it does seem strange to me that when leaving the UK we may not need to show my daughter's Uk passport to immigration.I suppose that on entering Bangkok ,Thai immigration will want to see an exit stamp on my daughter's passport so it sort of makes sense that she should show the Thai passport to get out of the UK.

You are also getting confused over 'stamp trails'. When flying, many countries, including the UK, don't have formal immigration on departure, so there will never be a stamp in the passport.

As such, Thai immigration at the airports won't care about stamp trails.

[MrZM]

The officer at immigration won't bother to look for a Thai visa in the British passport, as anyone who enters Thailand receives an automatic 30 days.

Anyway..

You must carry both passports at all times while travelling, one reason is you can only book a flight ticket with one passport number another reason is your wife would need consent, if you only left on the UK passport.

But simply as I do this quite a lot.

When leaving the UK, use your sons British passport, when entering Thailand use his Thai passport. When leaving Thailand, use Thai passport and enter UK use English passport.

Either way, they ask to see both passports. It's procedure.

//Edit: to clarify, "they" in "they ask to see both passports" refers only to the airline check-in staff, not to the immigration officers. – Maestro

Edited October 8, 2012 by Maestro
Added edit note.

[Richard W]

A question for the knowledgeable: Which passports will be reported on the flight manifests in the UK eBorders system? If different in the two systems, how will they be reconciled?

For the OP: You might prefer to get the British passport first. If you get the Thai passport first, it will have to be submitted with the application for the British passport, running the risk of it being lost or mutilated.

A scary thought is that once the Identity and Passport Service see the Thai passport, the UKBA might record your daughter as having British citizenship that can be removed because she also has Thai citizenship. Of course, if joined-up government has been implemented in this regard, the UKBA will have had this information available since her birth was registered. If your daughter will never do anything that could get a foreigner removed from the UK, there is nothing to worry about; she will be British for as long as she wants to be.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Richard W

[samran]

A question for the knowledgeable: Which passports will be reported on the flight manifests in the UK eBorders system? If different in the two systems, how will they be reconciled?

For the OP: You might prefer to get the British passport first. If you get the Thai passport first, it will have to be submitted with the application for the British passport, running the risk of it being lost or mutilated.

A scary thought is that once the Identity and Passport Service see the Thai passport, the UKBA might record your daughter as having British citizenship that can be removed because she also has Thai citizenship. Of course, if joined-up government has been implemented in this regard, the UKBA will have had this information available since her birth was registered. If your daughter will never do anything that could get a foreigner removed from the UK, there is nothing to worry about; she will be British for as long as she wants to be.

Dunno about the UK - but if it is anythnig like travelling to Australia and the US, it will be the passport you are entering Australia or the US on.

In Bangkok, when boarding for a flight to Australia, the check in lady will swipe my Australian passport through the reader at the top of her keyboard, which is connected to the Australian passports and immigration database. A second later she will see an 'approved' message saying the passport is real and I have permission to travel there.

Suspect the UK will be similar.

Not sure what you mean about the other bit though. A citizen can never be deported from their country of citizenship. Full stop. Regardless of what other nationality they hold.

[Eff1n2ret]

Not sure what you mean about the other bit though. A citizen can never be deported from their country of citizenship. Full stop. Regardless of what other nationality they hold.

Oh dear. Now you've given him an excuse to repeat all the guff he came out with in this thread, which was mercifully closed:-

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/583156-expelling-english-criminals-with-thai-mothers-from-the-united-kingdom/

[lee70]

Thanks for the advice .We actually got hold of the Thai passport first as my wife also needed to renew hers and we are awaiting the UK one.

I think as long as we have both passports with us it should not be a problem.My wife has ILR in the UK so should be fine coming back with our daughter.They are having an extended holiday over there while I come back to the freezing cold early in January.

[MrZM]

Everyone seems to be making this complicated.

Hold both passports at the same time as travelling and always show both.

When you check in at Bangkok airport, they will be looking for a visa in your sons Thai passport, this is if you don't show the English passport.

Always provide both documents.

I have travelled 3 times with my family , UK/THAI THAI/UK. I always give both passports at check in and immigration.

It's really simple.

[Richard W]

A citizen can never be deported from their country of citizenship. Full stop. Regardless of what other nationality they hold.

It happens. Technically, the usual process is to strip someone of his nationality and then expel him. Are you old enough to remember Solzhenitsyn? It appears that current UK practice is to deprive someone of British nationality while they are out of the country, though an exception would probably have been made in the case of Abu Hamza al-Masri. He kept British nationality by losing his other nationalities. For deprivation of British citizenship, there is nowadays no legal distinction according to which completely honest means it was obtained by, whether by birth, registration or naturalisation.

PM me if you want more details on UK law or practice. Most people just don't want to know.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Richard W

[7by7]

Most people are bored stiff with your assertion that anyone with dual citizenship is going to have their British citizenship removed for the slightest misdemeanor!

All the arguments and references that prove you wrong are in the topic linked to by Eff1n2ret above; but you aren't interested in them.

This is a topic about which passports a dual national should use when entering/leaving each country. As MrZM says, and as explanations above show, it's a simple procedure that wont cause any problems for anyone (assuming their dual nationality was obtained legally, of course).

Take your silly assertions elsewhere; please.

PM me if you want more details on UK law or practice

If I wanted such details, I'd ask someone who knows what they are talking about, which isn't you! Edited October 7, 2012 by 7by7

[Basil B]

Thank you 7x7 in replying to the previous post in the manor it deserved.

Just to say on revocation of Citizenship It can only happen at the direct intervention of the Home Secretary on the basses of "deprivation is conducive to the public good" and could not be used to make someone stateless.

Under amendments made by the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006, British nationals can be deprived of their citizenship if the Secretary of State is satisfied "deprivation is conducive to the public good". This provision has been in force since 16 June 2006 when the Immigration, Nationality and Asylum Act 2006 (Commencement No 1) Order 2006 came into force. This provision only applies to dual nationals, and does not operate to render a person stateless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law

Also if citizenship was obtained through fraud or deception it can be revoked as it was never legal in the first place.

Back to the main subject:

As for showing Passports Enter UK on a British Passport Enter Thailand on a Thai Passport, have both passports to hand as you have nothing to hide.

[Richard W]

Most people are bored stiff with your assertion that anyone with dual citizenship is going to have their British citizenship removed for the slightest misdemeanor!

I never intended any such extreme claim. You conceded that half-Thai, half-British serious criminals might get expelled from Britain.

[7by7]

[samran]

A citizen can never be deported from their country of citizenship. Full stop. Regardless of what other nationality they hold.

It happens. Technically, the usual process is to strip someone of his nationality and then expel him. Are you old enough to remember Solzhenitsyn? It appears that current UK practice is to deprive someone of British nationality while they are out of the country, though an exception would probably have been made in the case of Abu Hamza al-Masri. He kept British nationality by losing his other nationalities. For deprivation of British citizenship, there is nowadays no legal distinction according to which completely honest means it was obtained by, whether by birth, registration or naturalisation.

PM me if you want more details on UK law or practice. Most people just don't want to know.

Always good to know, but the reality is that it is something that is not going to be relevant to most members of that board.

I remember David Hicks' case and do vaguely recall his opportunity to uk citizenship was somehow extinguished.

I'm not proposing to restart the debate already clearly held elsewhere!

[7by7]

Indeed, Samran.

To any dual Thai/British nationals reading Richard W's fantasies, don't worry.

By using your British passport to leave and enter the UK and your Thai passport to leave and enter Thailand you are not doing anything illegal nor anything frowned upon by either government.

The same applies to anyone who holds dual nationality with the UK and any other country which allows it.

The Thai man Richard W subtly refers to above was not a dual national, neither was he deported from the UK. This was previously explained to him, but it doesn't fit into his argument so he ignores it.

David Hicks is a convicted terrorist, and Australian. His mother was born British and he used this to try and obtain British citizenship in an attempt to be released from Guantanamo Bay. He was granted it, but was stripped of it the next day due to his terrorist activities and tenuous ties to the UK; a place he had, I understand, never visited nor intended to.

The UK is not the Soviet Union, so you will not be stripped of your British nationality for writing books criticising the government. BTW, Solzhenitsyn's Soviet citizenship was restored to him in 1990 and he returned there in 1994.

You may, however, get into trouble if you commit terrorist acts or promote terrorist activities; which I think is unlikely for most if not all members of this board.

I suggest that you ignore further scaremongering posts from Richard W on the subject of dual nationality; I certainly intend to.

Edited October 7, 2012 by 7by7

[Richard W]

You may, however, get into trouble if you commit terrorist acts or promote terrorist activities; which I think is unlikely for most if not all members of this board.

Given that rebellion now counts as terrorism (unless I've misunderstood the UK Terrorism acts, which I rather hope I have) in UK law, remembering some of the partisan comments in the News forum makes me very less confident! I think, however, that taking sides in the red-yellow dispute is likely to be ignored by the British Government.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Richard W

[theoldgit]

The OP has his answer and this thread is now in danger of going into "what if" territory.

I'm grateful for 7by7 putting it back on track but I think we can close it now.