Officials Face Ban On Eating Raw Fish

[SlyAnimal]

Perhaps I've missed something, but from reading the article, I don't see any law changes. Only that the government employees have been told to not eat pala at work, and they've politely asked some restaurants to stop serving it

It's kinda like how government organisations in most countries often ask their staff to not smoke at work lol.

Pala is included in a lot of Isaan dishes, taste is ok, the smell isn't great but not the smelliest dish by far (blah kem smells easily twice as bad).

More education about the dangers of pala would be great, or on the treatment for people with the parasites etcliving inside them would be good. As although the stats from Wikipedia sound worse than what they probably are, it's still definitely a cause for concern (especially as people will never stop eating pala, so info on any treatments is probably invaluable)

[GentlemanJim]

Perhaps I've missed something, but from reading the article, I don't see any law changes. Only that the government employees have been told to not eat pala at work, and they've politely asked some restaurants to stop serving it

It's kinda like how government organisations in most countries often ask their staff to not smoke at work lol.

Pala is included in a lot of Isaan dishes, taste is ok, the smell isn't great but not the smelliest dish by far (blah kem smells easily twice as bad).

More education about the dangers of pala would be great, or on the treatment for people with the parasites etcliving inside them would be good. As although the stats from Wikipedia sound worse than what they probably are, it's still definitely a cause for concern (especially as people will never stop eating pala, so info on any treatments is probably invaluable)

Out of interest and off-topic sorry, but in the UK that brought in strict legislation about smoking in public places, in particular bars, there is one bar left in the UK where it is still legal to smoke in...the bar inside the houses of parliament used by the MP's. How's that for double standards!

[gamini]

raw salt water fish are OK to eat because salt water kills parasites, However no-one should ever eat raw fresh water fish because they can contain parasites which cause disease. I think this is what the government means

[Wombat6]

I wonder how they will police this new edict. ??

[Thai at Heart]

Does this law cover sushi? Nonsense law.

[aarn]

Unfortunately eating uncooked animal (by)products carries a risk of contracting parasitic and or bacterial diseases. As justcruisin reminds us, even if the flesh itself is not a risk, it is possible to contaminate the final product by butchering (with unclean knives), inappropriate storage etc. Japanese people occasionally contract a stomach worm from eating uncooked sea fishes (sorry gamini). These infrequently caused gastric ruptures, and were even associated with stomach cancers. Dairy products, when prepared incompetently,are occasionally associated with listeriosis (Australia in the 1990s), unprepared chicken meat was associated with various salmonella episodes in UK (1980/90s).

It seems a (big) bit over-the-top to legislate against 'traditional' foods. Better would be to start a new gravy-train of public awareness resources, and make preventative/treatment available cheaply. For opisthorchosis,and other flukes, praziquantal/'droncit' is very effective. So if you are feeling a bit queezy after overdoing the raw fish lately, go down to the local vet shop and get a triple dose. - worked well for me after trip to biharzia Africa.

Mmmm, Sunday, better get off me soapbox. AA

[Sateev]

is the offending fish dish made with a river fish or sea fish? Anyone any info.

Ok I got the scoop on how to make this Pala (Esaan Padat) from the gf.

1. Fish supply is rice paddy, canal, or anywhere you can find them.

2. Place the fish (minnows) in a large jug.

3. Pour salt into the jug at the ratio of three parts fish to one part salt. i.e three kilo fish, one kilo salt. No water or anything else goes into the mix. Only fish and salt.The decaying fish produce the liquid.

4. Let set for three months (can be two). But if let set for one year it is really, really good.

5. Fish can be eaten with sticky rice.

6. The juice from the jug is mixed in many Esaan foods to enhance the flavor and also makes the food very salty which Esaan people like.

Sounds like anchiovies the salt should brine accordingly ? and be safe ?

The parasite survives. Why they don't cook it first for safety is just stubbornness.

The parasite only survives if they 'harvest' it early, which is the case in some restaurants where they need the pla-rah to serve customers. If left alone for about three months, it becomes inert, albeit very stinky. Eating somtam at ANY restaurant that serves the Lao/Isaan variety is shaky, because even if you order 'somtam Thai' (without pla-rah), it will be made in the same mortar/pestle as the last batch of somtam Isaan...

And the crabs are NOT fermented, often barely dead, even still alive. They carry their OWN set of parasites...

Enjoy.

[mahtin]

Was on a westward bound Thai Int flight one time; someone had a receptacle full of this in the overhead compartment and it leaked.

Not quite snakes on a plane, but...

[impulse]

raw salt water fish are OK to eat because salt water kills parasites,

If that were true, there wouldn't be any salt water parasites in the ocean. There are many salt water parasites, many that die in fresh water. Salt/fresh isn't a good criteria for selecting raw fish that can be safely eaten.

Edited October 7, 2012 by impulse

[MEL1]

On a scale of 1 to 10, this isn't even worth a bone to chew on.

-mel.

[tomross46]

Is this from a particular type of fish? That will kill the Japanese restaurants (not that issan has many 10K is a lot of people to die from the disease in one province!

Edit, a quick search showed that about 2500 cases of this 'rare' cancer are diagnosed in the USA each year and there is only a 30% chance of making it past 5 years from that point, less if it is not detected very early on. 10 000 per year in a country with a 5th the population is really high. I guess extreme measures seem to be needed to stop it.

Looks to be an attack on the Japanese way of life.

[Arkady]

is the offending fish dish made with a river fish or sea fish? Anyone any info.

I think they are only referring to plaraa or pickled mud fish which is a fresh water fish used in som tam. The words Japanese, sashimi or sushi don't feature anywhere in the article.

[fxe1200]

Pala fish can also be used as a bomb. It can be thrown into your frontyard on various occasions, i.e when you sack your Mae baan after you convicted her of stealing. See attachment.

Edited October 7, 2012 by fxe1200

[Scully]

is the offending fish dish made with a river fish or sea fish? Anyone any info.

Ok I got the scoop on how to make this Pala (Esaan Padat) from the gf.

1. Fish supply is rice paddy, canal, or anywhere you can find them.

2. Place the fish (minnows) in a large jug.

3. Pour salt into the jug at the ratio of three parts fish to one part salt. i.e three kilo fish, one kilo salt. No water or anything else goes into the mix. Only fish and salt.The decaying fish produce the liquid.

4. Let set for three months (can be two). But if let set for one year it is really, really good.

5. Fish can be eaten with sticky rice.

6. The juice from the jug is mixed in many Esaan foods to enhance the flavor and also makes the food very salty which Esaan people like.

I have seen this mixture in homes and you can actually see little worms crawling up the sides. When I questioned this an object like a tea strainer was produced.

Oh that's ok then

I actually really like the stuff if eaten in somtam etc, but the locals usually stare at me when I eat it

[vijer]

Cholangiocarcinoma is considered to be an incurable and rapidly lethal malignancy unless both the primary tumor and anymetastases can be fully resected (removed surgically). No potentially curative treatment yet exists except surgery, but most patients have advanced stage disease at presentation and are inoperable at the time of diagnosis.

Primary cholangiocarcinoma is a rare disease. It is estimated that more than 2,500 new cases are diagnosed each year in the United States. However, the incidence of cholangiocarcinoma is increasing, mostly due to rising rates of intrahepatic cholangiocarcinoma that occurs in the liver. The reason for this increase is not known. It may be due to doctors having better tests to diagnose this type of cancer more accurately. Previously, they may have been thought to be a different sort of cancer. In some parts of the world, a parasite called liver flukes can infect the bile duct and cause cancer to form. Liver flukes are very common in Asia and the Middle East, and therefore cholangiocarcinoma is more common in these regions.

Fasciola hepatica, also known as the common liver fluke or sheep liver fluke, is a parasiticflatworm of the classTrematoda,phylumPlatyhelminthes that infects the livers of various mammals, including humans. The disease caused by the fluke is calledfascioliasis (also known as fasciolosis). F. hepatica is distributed worldwide, and causes great economic losses in sheep and cattle. It has been known as an important parasite of sheep and cattle for hundreds of years.

So much misinformation disseminated by the government.

1) Cholangiocarcinoma is a form of cancer not a parasitic infestation

2) Cholangiocarcinoma is not treatable with pills (perhaps why so many die in Issan)

3) Cholangiocarcinoma may be caused by Liver flukes, a parasite, this parasite is common to mammals NOT fish

So by all means ban government officials from eating stinky raw fermented fish. Better yet let government officials eat as much raw stinky fish as possible, perhaps they will be replaced with a better class of human.

Edited October 7, 2012 by vijer

[Thai at Heart]

Cholangiocarcinoma is considered to be an incurable and rapidly lethal malignancy unless both the primary tumor and anymetastases can be fully resected (removed surgically). No potentially curative treatment yet exists except surgery, but most patients have advanced stage disease at presentation and are inoperable at the time of diagnosis.

Primary cholangiocarcinoma is a rare disease. It is estimated that more than 2,500 new cases are diagnosed each year in the United States. However, the incidence of cholangiocarcinoma is increasing, mostly due to rising rates of intrahepatic cholangiocarcinoma that occurs in the liver. The reason for this increase is not known. It may be due to doctors having better tests to diagnose this type of cancer more accurately. Previously, they may have been thought to be a different sort of cancer. In some parts of the world, a parasite called liver flukes can infect the bile duct and cause cancer to form. Liver flukes are very common in Asia and the Middle East, and therefore cholangiocarcinoma is more common in these regions.

Fasciola hepatica, also known as the common liver fluke or sheep liver fluke, is a parasitic flatworm of the class Trematoda,phylum Platyhelminthes that infects the livers of various mammals, including humans. The disease caused by the fluke is calledfascioliasis (also known as fasciolosis). F. hepatica is distributed worldwide, and causes great economic losses in sheep and cattle. It has been known as an important parasite of sheep and cattle for hundreds of years.

So much misinformation disseminated by the government.

1) Cholangiocarcinoma is a form of cancer not a parasitic infestation

2) Cholangiocarcinoma is not treatable with pills (perhaps why so many die in Issan)

3) Cholangiocarcinoma may be caused by Liver flukes, a parasite, this parasite is common to mammals NOT fish

So by all means ban government officials from eating stinky raw fermented fish.

Saep eelee

[blackthorn2005]

Is this from a particular type of fish? That will kill the Japanese restaurants (not that issan has many 10K is a lot of people to die from the disease in one province!

I have seen it here in Udon. They take small minnows, put them in some kind of a solution in a large jar and let it ferment for a few weeks. When done it has an absolute putrid odor. I have baned it from my house just because of the terrible smell.

I'd never heard of this disease/issue before, I'm assuming they don't use any curing salt & they are brined in their own liquid ?

Don't blame you for the ban.

How are they going to enforce it?

[gosompoi]

Is this from a particular type of fish? That will kill the Japanese restaurants (not that issan has many 10K is a lot of people to die from the disease in one province!

I have seen it here in Udon. They take small minnows, put them in some kind of a solution in a large jar and let it ferment for a few weeks. When done it has an absolute putrid odor. I have baned it from my house just because of the terrible smell.

I'd never heard of this disease/issue before, I'm assuming they don't use any curing salt & they are brined in their own liquid ?

Don't blame you for the ban.

Eating raw fermented fish can lead to liver fluke infection which causes liver cancer, sad liver cancer from liver fluke infections is very high in Issan and so is death rate. This subject has been covered in the news and public health offices over the past couple of years but it all falls on deaf ears. The simple solutions is cook the pra-ra (fermented fish) before eating.

Edited October 7, 2012 by gosompoi

[Johpa]

Since when is Isaan just one province ?

Since when is Isaan anything other than a metaphor for the irredentist Lao population that resides within the borders of the Sino-Thai Kingdom of Thailand?

[WilliaminBKK]

Is this from a particular type of fish? That will kill the Japanese restaurants (not that issan has many 10K is a lot of people to die from the disease in one province!

I have seen it here in Udon. They take small minnows, put them in some kind of a solution in a large jar and let it ferment for a few weeks. When done it has an absolute putrid odor. I have baned it from my house just because of the terrible smell.

I'd never heard of this disease/issue before, I'm assuming they don't use any curing salt & they are brined in their own liquid ?

Don't blame you for the ban.

How are they going to enforce it?

Enforcement is easy they'll be able to smell the culprit a mile away then do a road side breath test.

[GentlemanJim]

Cholangiocarcinoma is considered to be an incurable and rapidly lethal malignancy unless both the primary tumor and anymetastases can be fully resected (removed surgically). No potentially curative treatment yet exists except surgery, but most patients have advanced stage disease at presentation and are inoperable at the time of diagnosis.

Primary cholangiocarcinoma is a rare disease. It is estimated that more than 2,500 new cases are diagnosed each year in the United States. However, the incidence of cholangiocarcinoma is increasing, mostly due to rising rates of intrahepatic cholangiocarcinoma that occurs in the liver. The reason for this increase is not known. It may be due to doctors having better tests to diagnose this type of cancer more accurately. Previously, they may have been thought to be a different sort of cancer. In some parts of the world, a parasite called liver flukes can infect the bile duct and cause cancer to form. Liver flukes are very common in Asia and the Middle East, and therefore cholangiocarcinoma is more common in these regions.

Fasciola hepatica, also known as the common liver fluke or sheep liver fluke, is a parasiticflatworm of the classTrematoda,phylumPlatyhelminthes that infects the livers of various mammals, including humans. The disease caused by the fluke is calledfascioliasis (also known as fasciolosis). F. hepatica is distributed worldwide, and causes great economic losses in sheep and cattle. It has been known as an important parasite of sheep and cattle for hundreds of years.

So much misinformation disseminated by the government.

1) Cholangiocarcinoma is a form of cancer not a parasitic infestation

2) Cholangiocarcinoma is not treatable with pills (perhaps why so many die in Issan)

3) Cholangiocarcinoma may be caused by Liver flukes, a parasite, this parasite is common to mammals NOT fish

So by all means ban government officials from eating stinky raw fermented fish. Better yet let government officials eat as much raw stinky fish as possible, perhaps they will be replaced with a better class of human.

Not sure what you mean. The original post specifically says " Opisthorchaisis "

Here is a link explaining the endemic nature of this liver fluke that passes from fish to humans and is prevalent in NE Thailand. There are several treatments, along with the flukes themselves that are considered major contributing factors to the rare form of highly fatal cancer "Cholangiocarcinoma" mentioned above. The OP read perfectly well to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opisthorchiasis

[vijer]

Not sure what you mean. The original post specifically says " Opisthorchaisis "

Here is a link explaining the endemic nature of this liver fluke that passes from fish to humans and is prevalent in NE Thailand. There are several treatments, along with the flukes themselves that are considered major contributing factors to the rare form of highly fatal cancer "Cholangiocarcinoma" mentioned above. The OP read perfectly well to me.

http://en.wikipedia....Opisthorchiasis

I stand corrected I missed the first disease mentioned and only saw the second disease.

Surawit, who was checking Nong Bua Lampu's campaign against Opisthorchiasis and Cholangiocarcinoma, praised the provincial policy to implement this food ban.

[RubbaJohnny]

Most prudent,we wouldn't want them to become rotten,bless 'em

[John Egil]

My girlfriend's father likes raw beef, but he cannot eat it, as it now makes him sick. I told my GF that I will not eat any form of raw meat/flesh. If it isn't cooked I do not want it.

Another problem is that here in Thailand it is almost impossible to get a properly cooked hamburger. Most places will serve it very rare, even when you tell them 'very well done'. Just because Thais seem to like their meats raw or rare, they do not seem to understand that many westerners prefer it to be properly cooked.

very well done hamburgers . . . try mcdonalds

The hamburgers i am used to from europe is always fried well done , because their a mix of beef and pork , here in Thailand its only pork .. And i dont consider what you get at Mc Donald as a hamburger

[impulse]

What are the practical implications of the raw seafood issue for a foreigner who occasionally finds himself eating some funky stuff that's been put in front of him?

I don't actively pursue raw or fermented fish or raw crab delights, but occasionally find some tiny crab claws in the bowl AFTER eating the salad... Not to mention that my salads are often prepared in the same bowl that had God-only-knows-what in it just a minute ago.

Is there some appropriate test or treatment to make sure I don't spend the rest of my (shortened) life with liver flukes on account of a poorly prepared meal here in SE Asia? Looking for input from the usual health care experts here, Thanks!

[canuckamuck]

I made a no crabs in the som tom rule for myself years ago. I simply refuse it and I done' care if its rude.

I love Som tom absolutely but I frequently decline to eat it if I find any evidence of crab in it.

I am careful about seafood and veggies, but you might be shocked about some of the things I will eat.

[raro]

Wife of a friend of mine died from it last year. Slow and painful death. From the moment it was diagnosed it was clear that she will die within a couple of months.

sent from my Android phone

[lizardtongue]

The ban will never work to many Issan people use it as a staple part of their food preparation, and they are very fussy about it's quality, apparently when fermenting it the idea is to encourage maggots once they have taken hold then it is deemed a good batch!

The only thing I can think of comparing it too is the maggot at the bottom of a bottle of Tequila.

[FOODLOVER]

The ban will never work to many Issan people use it as a staple part of their food preparation, and they are very fussy about it's quality, apparently when fermenting it the idea is to encourage maggots once they have taken hold then it is deemed a good batch!

The only thing I can think of comparing it too is the maggot at the bottom of a bottle of Tequila.

Maggot Cheese! Yum!