Aging Chiang Mai Expatriates In Trouble

[TwoDogz]

@ Mapguy.

and sometimes marry women or have girl friends who already have children.

Correct, but the schooling expense thing only apply to those who marry a 30 or so years younger woman.

Happens! Not necessarily 30. Or haven't you noticed ??!!! I recall that Picasso fathered a child when he was about 90. And that was before Viagra was invented !!!

That's why I don't use it, better safe than sorry.

There is always the vasectomy thread.

[hellodolly]

@ Mapguy.

and sometimes marry women or have girl friends who already have children.

Correct, but the schooling expense thing only apply to those who marry a 30 or so years younger woman.

Not necessarily. Collage is not cheap.

[TommoPhysicist]

Not necessarily. Collage is not cheap.

My wife and my daughter are both still at high-school ............ so I'm hoping college IS cheap.

[meatballs]

Unregistered help organisation/groups are not the answer as this leave elderly ex-pats vulerable to scams and exploitation.

The solutions are to make things much more difficult for Westerners to stay in Thailand for the long term.

Presently, farangs can enter and exit the Kingdom at will, with virtually no questions asked. Many seem to forget to go home and end up rooting themselves here without hardly a thought on how they intend to support themselves, perhaps hoping to earn an income by working illegally or charitable hand outs.

My point is that the authorities should not portray Thailand as an appealing retirement destination for people without wealth. Why not bring the Immigration regulations on par with Malaysia or Singapore? Otherwise Thailand will rapidly become a grazing ground for Western economic refugees, which can only bring problems to the Thai authorities and other ex-pats already living here.

While the present laid-back Immigration laws remain in force, these economic refugees will continue to come here, creating an influx of aging problematic farangs with no where to go, no future, begging for help and maybe to die destitute and alone.

As the wise man says; prevention is better than cure.

I agree with most of your post only I'm not sure about Malaysia and Singapore. You can get into Malaysia and stay very easily for 3 months. that's one more month than a tourist visa for Thailand.

I've lived in Thailand for more than 2 decades and have noticed of late a large influx of people here who really do not have money. That was not the case so long ago and doubtless might be due to the world economic crisis. In the past year alone, I've been hit on by a Frenchman who tells me his pension is too small to pay for his current wife and two ex-wifes (yet he insists he needs wine and cheese every day!). He asked for 2,000 euros and I told him to shove it. This man is 67 years old. When I told him if he has no money, maybe he should move back to his home country he said his country has changed so much it is no longer home! He also complains about North Africans living off the system in France (which it seems to me he is trying to do here). Cry me a river. This man is a con artist and has approached some of my friends for money too.

More recently, I've been the mark of an older Irishman (probably in his 70's) who has been complaining that he doesn't have enough money left from his small pension to make his visa run to Laos. He too is asking for money and will get the same answer. Sorry, I'm not a bank. But at least he is more honorable than the Frenchman; he's also very, very old and has trouble even walking about. To my knowledge, he has no one to look after him. That's sad. He's a decent fellow but you have to wonder: why did you come here exactly?

I think that Thailand will be forced to tighten its immigration procedures because of people like these. They will become a burden on the local system when their health gets worse. Too many farangs come here with the notion that they an easily get work (they cannot) and live the good life. If you don't have money in Thailand, life here is shit and everyone who has lived here knows you need far more money than the locals to stay alive. I doubt that many people can live on $1,000 a month here, either, because your costs will be far higher than locals in rent, transport, food etc. Only if you go local, can you do that and my experience is that 90% of farangs cannot go local and need the type of food of their nation (that means expensive farang restaurants and bars) and a house with aircon (make that 100% for Brits). Electricity is not cheap in Thailand either nor are internet and cable t.v. services. Even if you go local, that means you will have Thai friends who will expect you to pick up the bills and Thai loved ones who will do the same.

In fact, I think that food, electricity and cable are all cheaper in the USA. Milk, for instance, is 43 baht for less than 1 liter; that is roughly $1.33 for less than a liter of milk. The cheapest drinkable bottle of wine you can get here is about 400 baht, that is roughly $13. If you live outside the old city, you will need transport and that means minimally a motorbike which will cost more here than abroad. Cars are outrageously expensive in Thailand, maybe triple the amount you pay in the States. Cheese, bread, wine, beer are all expensive in this country and most farangs cannot live without them. And in some cases housing is also cheaper abroad (but that depends on where you live; not in big cities) especially safe/burglar free housing. Check the prices in gated communities here and you will find they are not cheap. Most people living in nongated housing will have their homes burglarized.

I knew a man who was Brazilian and had worked in Germany and came to live in Thailand but left after 2 months because he couldn't afford to live here. He's living somewhere in S. America now. Another person had similar problems and decided to move to Cambodia. I think living here is far less rosy than most people will admit.

Sound like spoiled brats to me. I know I can live here witout air-con and western food if I need to. It might suck but that's life. If you need to survive you'll do what you must.

[wigantojapan]

i keep reading about Thais expecting the farang to pick up the bill.well i must be very lucky as my first involvement on a deeper level with a Thai person

,i have never been expected to pick up the bill ,been pressurised emotionally to buy this that and anything

.If i want to pay for things i do,if my Thai family want to pay they pay.simple.no wonder people have a so called hard time,with attitudes like that.

lets get real here .We are talking about CM that went down the lavvy pan years ago but thats another topic

[wigantojapan]

Unregistered help organisation/groups are not the answer as this leave elderly ex-pats vulerable to scams and exploitation.

The solutions are to make things much more difficult for Westerners to stay in Thailand for the long term.

Presently, farangs can enter and exit the Kingdom at will, with virtually no questions asked. Many seem to forget to go home and end up rooting themselves here without hardly a thought on how they intend to support themselves, perhaps hoping to earn an income by working illegally or charitable hand outs.

My point is that the authorities should not portray Thailand as an appealing retirement destination for people without wealth. Why not bring the Immigration regulations on par with Malaysia or Singapore? Otherwise Thailand will rapidly become a grazing ground for Western economic refugees, which can only bring problems to the Thai authorities and other ex-pats already living here.

While the present laid-back Immigration laws remain in force, these economic refugees will continue to come here, creating an influx of aging problematic farangs with no where to go, no future, begging for help and maybe to die destitute and alone.

As the wise man says; prevention is better than cure.

I agree with most of your post only I'm not sure about Malaysia and Singapore. You can get into Malaysia and stay very easily for 3 months. that's one more month than a tourist visa for Thailand.

I've lived in Thailand for more than 2 decades and have noticed of late a large influx of people here who really do not have money. That was not the case so long ago and doubtless might be due to the world economic crisis. In the past year alone, I've been hit on by a Frenchman who tells me his pension is too small to pay for his current wife and two ex-wifes (yet he insists he needs wine and cheese every day!). He asked for 2,000 euros and I told him to shove it. This man is 67 years old. When I told him if he has no money, maybe he should move back to his home country he said his country has changed so much it is no longer home! He also complains about North Africans living off the system in France (which it seems to me he is trying to do here). Cry me a river. This man is a con artist and has approached some of my friends for money too.

More recently, I've been the mark of an older Irishman (probably in his 70's) who has been complaining that he doesn't have enough money left from his small pension to make his visa run to Laos. He too is asking for money and will get the same answer. Sorry, I'm not a bank. But at least he is more honorable than the Frenchman; he's also very, very old and has trouble even walking about. To my knowledge, he has no one to look after him. That's sad. He's a decent fellow but you have to wonder: why did you come here exactly?

I think that Thailand will be forced to tighten its immigration procedures because of people like these. They will become a burden on the local system when their health gets worse. Too many farangs come here with the notion that they an easily get work (they cannot) and live the good life. If you don't have money in Thailand, life here is shit and everyone who has lived here knows you need far more money than the locals to stay alive. I doubt that many people can live on $1,000 a month here, either, because your costs will be far higher than locals in rent, transport, food etc. Only if you go local, can you do that and my experience is that 90% of farangs cannot go local and need the type of food of their nation (that means expensive farang restaurants and bars) and a house with aircon (make that 100% for Brits). Electricity is not cheap in Thailand either nor are internet and cable t.v. services. Even if you go local, that means you will have Thai friends who will expect you to pick up the bills and Thai loved ones who will do the same.

In fact, I think that food, electricity and cable are all cheaper in the USA. Milk, for instance, is 43 baht for less than 1 liter; that is roughly $1.33 for less than a liter of milk. The cheapest drinkable bottle of wine you can get here is about 400 baht, that is roughly $13. If you live outside the old city, you will need transport and that means minimally a motorbike which will cost more here than abroad. Cars are outrageously expensive in Thailand, maybe triple the amount you pay in the States. Cheese, bread, wine, beer are all expensive in this country and most farangs cannot live without them. And in some cases housing is also cheaper abroad (but that depends on where you live; not in big cities) especially safe/burglar free housing. Check the prices in gated communities here and you will find they are not cheap. Most people living in nongated housing will have their homes burglarized.

I knew a man who was Brazilian and had worked in Germany and came to live in Thailand but left after 2 months because he couldn't afford to live here. He's living somewhere in S. America now. Another person had similar problems and decided to move to Cambodia. I think living here is far less rosy than most people will admit.

Sound like spoiled brats to me. I know I can live here witout air-con and western food if I need to. It might suck but that's life. If you need to survive you'll do what you must.

whats so good about western food or air con for that matter............what sucks about not being able to have these 2 dreadful commodities and the effect they have on ones personal health as well as the planets

[TheVicar]

I am happy to share my financial planning experience as well...anyone keen...PM me. I agree everyone has their own standards on what is defined as "comfortable".

I have decided THB$90,000 is the minimum for me per month and that means an even THB1,100,000 per year with a bit of buffer.

This means USD$36,000 per year and if I retire for 25 years without work...it means I need USD$900,000. This may sound like a lot but if you come to CM at 55 and stop work relying only on your pension and pass out at 80....you can see why many are in the same situation as mapguy described.

Those scary sums from the financial planners are real !

Your quote and the one preceding it indicate that lots of people accept the notion that there is this problem identified by the original poster. While I think you are to be commended for being willing to share your expertise with this group of people, these same people have long ago rejected any realistic planning (look at Tomo's posts here and you'll see that). In the main, they resent planning and those who do it.

Unfortunately, many of the people whom I have met in this category are 1) either con artists or scam artists of some kind; 2) of the criminal class; 3) simply unwilling to work and expect to have other people give them handouts. Yes, a few may be victims of unlucky circumstances but usually their lives are the product of rejection of their own societies, inability to live in their own socieities, and in general a kind of antisocial attitude plus an attitude that life owes them something. It's not that they need financial planning as much as a swift kick in the butt.

This may seem harsh but I've really seen some scum coming to Thailand in the past few years. Lots of people came who had little or no funds and came for the "fun" (largely meaning for sex). Now they are a blight on the society.

Edited October 27, 2012 by TheVicar

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

I am happy to share my financial planning experience as well...anyone keen...PM me. I agree everyone has their own standards on what is defined as "comfortable".

I have decided THB$90,000 is the minimum for me per month and that means an even THB1,100,000 per year with a bit of buffer.

This means USD$36,000 per year and if I retire for 25 years without work...it means I need USD$900,000. This may sound like a lot but if you come to CM at 55 and stop work relying only on your pension and pass out at 80....you can see why many are in the same situation as mapguy described.

Those scary sums from the financial planners are real !

Your quote and the one preceding it indicate that lots of people accept the notion that there is this problem identified by the original poster. While I think you are to be commended for being willing to share your expertise with this group of people, these same people have long ago rejected any realistic planning (look at Tomo's posts here and you'll see that). In the main, they resent planning and those who do it.

Unfortunately, many of the people whom I have met in this category are 1) either con artists or scam artists of some kind; 2) of the criminal class; 3) simply unwilling to work and expect to have other people give them handouts. Yes, a few may be victims of unlucky circumstances but usually their lives are the product of rejection of their own societies, inability to live in their own socieities, and in general a kind of antisocial attitude plus an attitude that life owes them something. It's not that they need financial planning as much as a swift kick in the butt.

This may seem harsh but I've really seen some scum coming to Thailand in the past few years. Lots of people came who had little or no funds and came for the "fun" (largely meaning for sex). Now they are a blight on the society.

A lot of truth in what you say! They are a mixture of the good, the bad, the mad and the sad. People in difficulties here need a wide spectrum of help, general support and advice including medical and psychiatric issues, bereavement and marital counselling, pensions and tax issues, insurance and legal issues. Some just need the support of a " friend" through a difficult patch. I recognize that there are also lot of loathsome psychopaths and I have on occasions given support to some of their number.

[uptheos]

Unfortunately, many of the people whom I have met in this category are 1) either con artists or scam artists of some kind; 2) of the criminal class; 3) simply unwilling to work and expect to have other people give them handouts. Yes, a few may be victims of unlucky circumstances but usually their lives are the product of rejection of their own societies, inability to live in their own socieities, and in general a kind of antisocial attitude plus an attitude that life owes them something. It's not that they need financial planning as much as a swift kick in the butt.

This may seem harsh but I've really seen some scum coming to Thailand in the past few years. Lots of people came who had little or no funds and came for the "fun" (largely meaning for sex). Now they are a blight on the society.

All sounds a bit like people in glass houses throwing stones.

[chiangmaikelly]

I am happy to share my financial planning experience as well...anyone keen...PM me. I agree everyone has their own standards on what is defined as "comfortable".

I have decided THB$90,000 is the minimum for me per month and that means an even THB1,100,000 per year with a bit of buffer.

This means USD$36,000 per year and if I retire for 25 years without work...it means I need USD$900,000. This may sound like a lot but if you come to CM at 55 and stop work relying only on your pension and pass out at 80....you can see why many are in the same situation as mapguy described.

Those scary sums from the financial planners are real !

Your quote and the one preceding it indicate that lots of people accept the notion that there is this problem identified by the original poster. While I think you are to be commended for being willing to share your expertise with this group of people, these same people have long ago rejected any realistic planning (look at Tomo's posts here and you'll see that). In the main, they resent planning and those who do it.

Unfortunately, many of the people whom I have met in this category are 1) either con artists or scam artists of some kind; 2) of the criminal class; 3) simply unwilling to work and expect to have other people give them handouts. Yes, a few may be victims of unlucky circumstances but usually their lives are the product of rejection of their own societies, inability to live in their own socieities, and in general a kind of antisocial attitude plus an attitude that life owes them something. It's not that they need financial planning as much as a swift kick in the butt.

This may seem harsh but I've really seen some scum coming to Thailand in the past few years. Lots of people came who had little or no funds and came for the "fun" (largely meaning for sex). Now they are a blight on the society.

You do know that only a few years ago they had mule trains of opium going down the main street of Chiang Mai.

Things have gotten a lot better IMO.

[Ulysses G.]

There were a lot more "white trash" in the expat community 20 years ago. It has gotten downright yuppie-like in comparison nowadays.

[mesquite]

I am happy to share my financial planning experience as well...anyone keen...PM me. I agree everyone has their own standards on what is defined as "comfortable".

I have decided THB$90,000 is the minimum for me per month and that means an even THB1,100,000 per year with a bit of buffer.

This means USD$36,000 per year and if I retire for 25 years without work...it means I need USD$900,000. This may sound like a lot but if you come to CM at 55 and stop work relying only on your pension and pass out at 80....you can see why many are in the same situation as mapguy described.

Those scary sums from the financial planners are real !

Your quote and the one preceding it indicate that lots of people accept the notion that there is this problem identified by the original poster. While I think you are to be commended for being willing to share your expertise with this group of people, these same people have long ago rejected any realistic planning (look at Tomo's posts here and you'll see that). In the main, they resent planning and those who do it.

Unfortunately, many of the people whom I have met in this category are 1) either con artists or scam artists of some kind; 2) of the criminal class; 3) simply unwilling to work and expect to have other people give them handouts. Yes, a few may be victims of unlucky circumstances but usually their lives are the product of rejection of their own societies, inability to live in their own socieities, and in general a kind of antisocial attitude plus an attitude that life owes them something. It's not that they need financial planning as much as a swift kick in the butt.

This may seem harsh but I've really seen some scum coming to Thailand in the past few years. Lots of people came who had little or no funds and came for the "fun" (largely meaning for sex). Now they are a blight on the society.

A lot of truth in what you say! They are a mixture of the good, the bad, the mad and the sad. People in difficulties here need a wide spectrum of help, general support and advice including medical and psychiatric issues, bereavement and marital counselling, pensions and tax issues, insurance and legal issues. Some just need the support of a " friend" through a difficult patch. I recognize that there are also lot of loathsome psychopaths and I have on occasions given support to some of their number.

Where in God's name do you two meet these people? Maybe try a different bar.

[mamborobert]

I am happy to share my financial planning experience as well...anyone keen...PM me. I agree everyone has their own standards on what is defined as "comfortable".

I have decided THB$90,000 is the minimum for me per month and that means an even THB1,100,000 per year with a bit of buffer.

This means USD$36,000 per year and if I retire for 25 years without work...it means I need USD$900,000. This may sound like a lot but if you come to CM at 55 and stop work relying only on your pension and pass out at 80....you can see why many are in the same situation as mapguy described.

Those scary sums from the financial planners are real !

Your quote and the one preceding it indicate that lots of people accept the notion that there is this problem identified by the original poster. While I think you are to be commended for being willing to share your expertise with this group of people, these same people have long ago rejected any realistic planning (look at Tomo's posts here and you'll see that). In the main, they resent planning and those who do it.

Unfortunately, many of the people whom I have met in this category are 1) either con artists or scam artists of some kind; 2) of the criminal class; 3) simply unwilling to work and expect to have other people give them handouts. Yes, a few may be victims of unlucky circumstances but usually their lives are the product of rejection of their own societies, inability to live in their own socieities, and in general a kind of antisocial attitude plus an attitude that life owes them something. It's not that they need financial planning as much as a swift kick in the butt.

This may seem harsh but I've really seen some scum coming to Thailand in the past few years. Lots of people came who had little or no funds and came for the "fun" (largely meaning for sex). Now they are a blight on the society.

A lot of truth in what you say! They are a mixture of the good, the bad, the mad and the sad. People in difficulties here need a wide spectrum of help, general support and advice including medical and psychiatric issues, bereavement and marital counselling, pensions and tax issues, insurance and legal issues. Some just need the support of a " friend" through a difficult patch. I recognize that there are also lot of loathsome psychopaths and I have on occasions given support to some of their number.

Where in God's name do you two meet these people? Maybe try a different bar.

There's no bar outside Veerachai Court just the convenience store and a set of chairs and tables

[Mapguy]

[Chiang Mai]... "a mixture of the good, the bad, the mad and the sad." If anything, there is certainly no one-size-fits-all solution.

Ah! There's another cue! Sorry, another long Mapguy post coming up! If you are interested, go take a piss or get anotehr cup of coffee! If not, well:

To start off, there are several foreigners who work to qualify for Thai benefits (retirement and/or health care). One case is mentioned above. They just need to ensure that they are comfortable with the benefits provided.

Some foreigners in Chiang Mai do have some networks of friends (foreign and Thai) to help, but this sort of network may fail miserably when it is needed. For example --- a lot of these seem to be "sexpats" --- many seem to rely upon Thai boy or girl friends. How reliable is that arrangement for long-term care, especially given the way a lot of foreigners seem to "hook up ?"

Some foreigners rely on networks of fellow foreigners. How steady can that be when most of those friends are of the same age (I see that often) with the same ageing aches and pains and, from what I have witnessed, possessed of many adolescent idiosyncracies (in or out of bars). Putting some foreigners in dire circumstances (and that includes those who are not, as UG puts it, "white trash") on the plane "home" appears to be the best solution for more than a few. If they are outside the Thai help system, there really doesn't appear to be very much that can be done to help them in Thailand, certainly on an extended basis, and what little is available can be very expensive. Dementia, for example, isn't three-day influenza.

Official Thai care in Thailand? Why should Thailand be saddled with the responsibility of caring for indigent or "wobbly" foreigners? There are some things the "system" is willing to do, but help is ultimately limited. In comparison, much richer national systems restrict immigration of the elderly and/or limit social services that may be provided for them. Thailand is astonishing generous --- and it doesn't add that much to the national income, especially if you consider folks like Tommophysicist by his own account!

But moving on to harsh solutions!

Maybe a lot of people have to be "forcefully" persuaded to go back to their home countries. That would be a Thai governmental responsibility. It means tightening up enforcement of existing financial reserve requirements. One would be to stop all the "optimizing" that so many foreigners apparently do, like obtaining short-term loans to meet the three-month bank deposit "barrier." Make it a flat requirement to have a certain continuous reserve in fixed deposits in Thailand, perhaps with some latitude for major emergencies, such as major healthcare expenses, but nonetheless requiring replenishment of such withdrawals within a responsible timeframe. If a person can't afford to keep 800,000 bhat (at interest) in a fixed deposit, then they are skating very close to the edge. Pensions are more complicated. And require ongoing proof of pensions. Every responsible pension provider can provide an annual notarized guarantee that a pension is in force and how much is provided. An example is the annual statement provided by the US Social Security Administration. However, in addition to that, proof of satisfactory transfers to Thai bhat accounts in Thailand could be required at least annually.

More draconian (but effective) would be to raise the ante. How high? Individual personal expectations of a reasonable lifestyle have to be considered. Especially for old folks (as well as for many not so old), potential and actual expenses come to mind. Not to pick on him, but not everyone has the limited expectations and apparent young good health in bucolic bliss as Tommophysist (and now he is apparently hoping to send his wife and daughter to university ). Addressed to all, where do you live? I am familiar with 3000 per month rentals up to "owning" 25 million bhat houses.

I have found the price shopping approach whether or not you can live "well" in Chiang Mai to be somewhat interesting but not particularly enlightening. People simply have different expectations. Seems half the Chiang Mai TV posters might keel over if the price of hamburgers, a fully monty English breakfast or a finger-licking good Sunday roast dinner gets out of reach!! Nevermind the price of "premium" beers!! Mama noodles or tenderloin? Some just watch yogurt prices! But seriously, about more serious, say, healthcare concerns: local clinic or Chiang Mai Ram? What about Thai dependents? You go to Ram? They get 30 bhat care? Hmmmmmmm! Or schools for children. (Yes, Semper, people have sex after 50!!!) PREM or a rural Thai school ?

Changing the subject, on to scams actively employed by foreigners! How about tourist visas and education visas! If the Thai government enforced those regulations rigorously, several 747s would have to be chartered to send foreigners back home. Then, there is the seemingly endless concern with tourist visas with visa runs, et cetera. Quit playing games!! Okay, okay! Everyone should certainly be able to get a visa as a tourist. Thirty day visas are common internationally. Have an emergency (or some other circumstances already covered in immigration requirements? Okay, get a suitable extension. There are numerous other legitimate categories, but it seems many of them need better regulation and enforcement. Play games? Forget it! Look at the number of visa gamesters on Thai Visa !! Simply, cut out the visa run nonsense!

The above comments and suggestions are certainly not inclusive, so have at it. I simply believe that many foreigners, including TV English-speaking foreigners, take gross advantage of Thailand's hospitality. From time to time, I read snotty comments on various threads about corrupt government here, crooked cops, or that ilk as some sort of rationalization for gaming the system. A lot of it seems to be of British or American origin. Well, considering what banks have been up to in both countries or what the BBC has been up to, or the schmoozing between government and business and/or media in those countries, then what, really, is your point about corruption large or small in Thailand? ANything goes, so f**it!

On one personal note:

I have never been asked for a bribe from anyone in Thailand in many years. Consistent courtesy --- even from the "dragon lady" at Chiang Mai immigration (!) --- has been extended to me, and I am not obsequious, just polite.

Scams in Thailand? Yes, but many seem to be run (some in sophisticated ways) by English-speaking clubs and native "professionals." Need an insurance policy? Oh, "We can help on that!" Need visa or emergency assistance? "Oh, we can help with that?" Need investment advice? "Oh, here's an idea or two!" That does not include everyone you run into at a monthly meeting or coffees, but would you trust someone back in your home country just because they speak English !!!! I shudder whenever I see English language ability of "expatism" featured as a key qualification. And there are questionable sorts listed on consulate lists of professional services. Many people don't read the consular services disclaimers !!!

Have I been charged more as a foreigner in some cases than as a "native?" Yes, but rarely, and only in minor matters usually in tourist areas, never on something important. (And sharing some practrical experience on Thai Visa Chiang Mai can be quite useful in that respect! I really admire the helpfulness of several posters, such as "Chiangmai," just to pick one among several. But "la-de-da" when it comes to "discriminatory" admissions into some national parks! (I have personally never been charged "farang rates" and I don't have dark skin and slanty eyes, as if I were some sort of Non-Thai Asian trying to sneak in !! The rate differentials are really to bump the price up for tourists, perhaps a rather perverse policy to attract more of them, but a LOT of countries do that! Deal with it !!!

Bye for now!!

Edited October 28, 2012 by Mapguy

[jonwilly]

"There were a lot more "white trash" in the expat community 20 years ago. It has gotten downright yuppie-like in comparison nowadays."

Very true in my opinion.

john

[CMNightRider]

I really am amazed anyone would consider living here on 10,000 baht a month 30,000 is ok but I would guess 50,000 is common?

But don't most retiree posters have a lot more per their visa requirements

I have lived in CM for over 4-1/2 years, and 99% of the expats I know do have an income which far exceeds the Thai retirement visa requirements. I'm surprised this topic has grown legs, lol. For the few retirees who don't have sufficient funds to live here, that is their business. I fail to see the need to berate them for being less fortunate than those who do have money. Live and let live.

[elektrified]

"There were a lot more "white trash" in the expat community 20 years ago. It has gotten downright yuppie-like in comparison nowadays."

Very true in my opinion.

john

Some of you guys don't make it out to Sansai too often eh?

[uptheos]

I really am amazed anyone would consider living here on 10,000 baht a month 30,000 is ok but I would guess 50,000 is common?

But don't most retiree posters have a lot more per their visa requirements

I have lived in CM for over 4-1/2 years, and 99% of the expats I know do have an income which far exceeds the Thai retirement visa requirements. I'm surprised this topic has grown legs, lol. For the few retirees who don't have sufficient funds to live here, that is their business. I fail to see the need to berate them for being less fortunate than those who do have money. Live and let live.

I would imagine it's not just here on TV that it happens, those who berate the less fortunate would probably do it wherever they are.

If someone is feeling quite insignificant, fearful and worthless, they desperately need a way to fix that. Trying to make someone else also feel insignificant fearful and worthless, by berating them accomplishes this to a large degree. It helps the berater very much because they know there will be a very good chance that a large percentage of other insignificant people will seize their opportunity to hop onto the bandwagon in an attempt to make them selves feel a bit better and in the process adds some sort of justification to what has been said about less fortunate people..

I reiterate the words in the previous post, 'for the retirees who don't have sufficient funds to live here, that is there business'. Get on with enjoying your retirement in paradise.

Edited October 29, 2012 by uptheos

[elektrified]

In 10 pages not one poster has made any reference to the fact that many people in this world are less fortunate today due to the worst economy in the last 82 years, that many people have lost their savings for retirement because their funds were invested in savings plans in corrupt corporations (think Enron) and then the governments who protected them!, stock market declines, currency devaluation, unemployment, lack of commerce, health insurance companies who have failed, failed to pay claims, foreclosures due to loans with escalating monthly payments in which corporations sought out the people who were vulnerable and gave them the loans knowing they could never pay them back, depression and anxiety as a result of the above, and the list goes on and on. It's been a difficult time in history.

[Loaded]

In 10 pages not one poster has made any reference to the fact that many people in this world are less fortunate today due to the worst economy in the last 82 years, that many people have lost their savings for retirement because their funds were invested in savings plans in corrupt corporations (think Enron) and then the governments who protected them!, stock market declines, currency devaluation, unemployment, lack of commerce, health insurance companies who have failed, failed to pay claims, foreclosures due to loans with escalating monthly payments in which corporations sought out the people who were vulnerable and gave them the loans knowing they could never pay them back, depression and anxiety as a result of the above, and the list goes on and on. It's been a difficult time in history.

And it was all avoidable. When I was told 6 years ago that I could obtain a mortgage in the UK for a buy-to-let despite not having lived there for the previous 7 years and not having a credit history, I knew it would all end in tears. I was told I just needed to tell lenders my 'income' and they wouldn't check. It was true. I felt like the little boy shouting out that the emperor's not wearing any clothes. It just seems unbelievable that anybody in government or these financial institutes couldn't see what was clearly written on the wall.

I feel very sorry for the people who suffered because of this. It was criminal. However, it only confirmed my belief that you look after number 1 yourself. Governments, and pension, savings and insurance companies are no better than the Gambinos.

[hellodolly]

I really am amazed anyone would consider living here on 10,000 baht a month 30,000 is ok but I would guess 50,000 is common?

But don't most retiree posters have a lot more per their visa requirements

I have lived in CM for over 4-1/2 years, and 99% of the expats I know do have an income which far exceeds the Thai retirement visa requirements. I'm surprised this topic has grown legs, lol. For the few retirees who don't have sufficient funds to live here, that is their business. I fail to see the need to berate them for being less fortunate than those who do have money. Live and let live.

I would imagine it's not just here on TV that it happens, those who berate the less fortunate would probably do it wherever they are.

If someone is feeling quite insignificant, fearful and worthless, they desperately need a way to fix that. Trying to make someone else also feel insignificant fearful and worthless, by berating them accomplishes this to a large degree. It helps the berater very much because they know there will be a very good chance that a large percentage of other insignificant people will seize their opportunity to hop onto the bandwagon in an attempt to make them selves feel a bit better and in the process adds some sort of justification to what has been said about less fortunate people..

I reiterate the words in the previous post, 'for the retirees who don't have sufficient funds to live here, that is there business'. Get on with enjoying your retirement in paradise.

Well there is certainly a lot of truth in what you say. But if I do not condone a law I will not say it is OK to break it. I personally feel 65,000 baht a month is very high but it was put there for a reason. Supposedly one was expected to have enough money to take care of there medical expenses. Taking that fact in it can depending on one's age not be to bad.

What I can't figure out is how it is supposedly 25,000 baht a month cheaper to support a Thai wife. That figure is in my opinion a low figure.

Edited October 29, 2012 by hellodolly

[onthedarkside]

<snip>

What I can't figure out is how it is supposedly 25,000 baht a month cheaper to support a Thai wife. That figure is in my opinion a low figure.

Snap ... I think exactly the same. 65,000 baht/month for a Farang alone and 40,000 baht/month for Farang married to a Thai. I deduce that if married to a Thai national you get a discounted price ... And I being really serious here.

[Jingthing]

I think the obvious reason the marriage requirement is different is that if you are married to a Thai you have a "real" human bond with Thailand and the lower amount reflects greater desirability. You getting kicked out would directly and probably adversely impact specific Thai people. If you are not so closely connected to a Thai person, then really your ONLY benefit to Thailand is economic. Of course retired expats leaving also impacts Thais but not so specifically as each retired expat is responsible for a number of Thai jobs.

In other words (quite obviously I think) it has NOTHING to do with us as foreign individuals and everything to do with Thailand and Thai people.

We are not "invited" here because we smell good ... trust me on that.

In other words (visa policies not about you)

Edited October 29, 2012 by Jingthing

[uptheos]

<snip>

What I can't figure out is how it is supposedly 25,000 baht a month cheaper to support a Thai wife. That figure is in my opinion a low figure.

Snap ... I think exactly the same. 65,000 baht/month for a Farang alone and 40,000 baht/month for Farang married to a Thai. I deduce that if married to a Thai national you get a discounted price ... And I being really serious here.

Discounted for what......the grief?

[TommoPhysicist]

<snip>

What I can't figure out is how it is supposedly 25,000 baht a month cheaper to support a Thai wife. That figure is in my opinion a low figure.

Snap ... I think exactly the same. 65,000 baht/month for a Farang alone and 40,000 baht/month for Farang married to a Thai. I deduce that if married to a Thai national you get a discounted price ... And I being really serious here.

I always thought it was because they knew you were going to live in your wife's house and she would do all your cooking and cleaning, so you would save on the accommodation and living costs. (not to mention you won't need all the extra money to spend on hookers)

Edited October 29, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Jingthing]

<snip>

What I can't figure out is how it is supposedly 25,000 baht a month cheaper to support a Thai wife. That figure is in my opinion a low figure.

Snap ... I think exactly the same. 65,000 baht/month for a Farang alone and 40,000 baht/month for Farang married to a Thai. I deduce that if married to a Thai national you get a discounted price ... And I being really serious here.

I always thought it was because they knew you were going to live in your wife's house and she would do all your cooking and cleaning, so you would save on the accommodation and living costs.

Again, very doubtful, because if there was that kind of logic about the foreigner's living costs going into this, retired expats who OWN their housing would qualify for lesser amounts (as does happen in some other nation's retirement visa programs).

[TwoDogz]

Not necessarily. Collage is not cheap.

My wife and my daughter are both still at high-school ............ so I'm hoping college IS cheap.

Thats just so wrong on so many points.

[Mapguy]

Here are a few thoughts for Chiang Mai's leisure class. Check out the lead article:

http://www.expatnewsletter.net/viewourpublication/#/Issue%2081%20•%20November%202012/4

Some might consider some of the remedies problematic.

[cooked]

I wonder about this ฿65 000.- / ฿40 000.- gap also. I have ฿46 000.- a month and we do ok, hoping exchange rates go in my favour. We could do a dam_n sight better on 65, that's for sure. However the fact that I am ready to support a Thai lady is one factor: another is that she has her house (quite nice although it needs some work), a farm which could feed us at a pinch, a family that helps when we ask. And a car.

The ฿40 000.- limit for married people seems very civilised to me and is probably the last option that the Thai authorities will nibble at. The ED visa extension is being looked at, and I think that visa runs will become increasingly difficult.