Organic Farms Selling Non-Organic Food (Using Their Organic Label)

[easybullet3]

I want to dig deep and find out as much as possible: if you have anything to share, please do. (your knowledge will be appreciated by Thai visa Readers)

I have heard (a few times) that some (possibly many) Organic Farms (Fruit & Veg), run a 100% organic farm, BUT they also buy large amounts of Non-Organic produce to sell in supermarkets (using their Organic Sticker).

is this true? how rampant is it in Thailand?

Please share your opinion and experience. do you know if this is truly happening?

I have heard TWICE now about this.

Once directly from a rice farmer (saying that they know this happens in the rice sector)

and, also I hear it from a mixed Foreigner/Thai farming family. (they said they know of a few farms doing this in the Chiang Mai area)

Edited October 14, 2012 by easybullet3

[IsaanAussie]

Is it true? Who knows? Frauds exist in most countries, but leave that to one side for a moment as I doubt you will get a truthful answer from any of them.

There are a growing number of farms moving towards organic, natural, ethical and a range of other labels put on farming methods. It is a very complex issue and I doubt you will find an easy answer.

We sell our produce under a personal provenance statement detailing the products history. Are we organically certified? No, nor are we currently attempting to be. It is a bit like trying to make money digged for unobtainium.

I believe the first step is to act responsibly and use the most appropriate materials available correctly. More often than not, labour availability is a limiting factor. Another is cost against income, prices paid here dictate very efficient farming. The best compromise I can come up with is to use compost we make on farm and blend that with mineral fertilisers. I do not produce enough compost and natural materials to go organic, but I do limit chemical usage to just fills the need.

Standards do exist here for organic farming of vegetables etc.. as does the lists of allowable and prohibited substances. These comply with IFOAM requirements. There are no explicit standards for most livestock operations though. How can I supply organic pork when it is not even defined?

Large supermarket chains sourcing organic produce will, like anywhere else, rely on the certification process and its controls.

The pieces are in place and IMHO the situation is improving. Far from perfect by any means

[easybullet3]

I believe the first step is to act responsibly and use the most appropriate materials available correctly...

....prices paid here dictate very efficient farming. The best compromise I can come up with is to use compost we make on farm and blend that with mineral fertilisers. I do not produce enough compost and natural materials to go organic, but I do limit chemical usage to just fills the need.

Large supermarket chains sourcing organic produce will, like anywhere else, rely on the certification process and its controls.

The pieces are in place and IMHO the situation is improving. Far from perfect by any means

I appreciate your answer, and its nice to know that people (like yourself) are doing the best they can (in a responsible way). if Thailand [farming] was filled with people with your ethic then i (as a consumer) wouldn't be spending time to investigate this. - i wonder how many others are doing 'the best they can' (as you are).

Would I be correct in assuming that chemical (more hazardous) pesticides and fertilisers are far cheaper than the safer ones?

- if so, then there is great chance for farms to cut this corner. I was searching for a while and I found it VERY DIFFICULT to find any Pesticide Testing Re-Agents in Thailand. So I guess that Purchasers do not do any form of 'testing' on produce (to see if its not outside of safety limits).

I remember reading about the Pesticide article a short-while ago:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/569292-vegetables-with-a-dangerously-high-level-of-pesticide-sold-at-high-end-markets-bangkok

i know that fraud and corner-cutting will happen in any country (world-wide), but since 'ThaiVisa' relates to Thailand, and we are eating Thai Produce, then I am focusing on Thailand.

[IsaanAussie]

I believe the first step is to act responsibly and use the most appropriate materials available correctly...

....prices paid here dictate very efficient farming. The best compromise I can come up with is to use compost we make on farm and blend that with mineral fertilisers. I do not produce enough compost and natural materials to go organic, but I do limit chemical usage to just fills the need.

Large supermarket chains sourcing organic produce will, like anywhere else, rely on the certification process and its controls.

The pieces are in place and IMHO the situation is improving. Far from perfect by any means

I appreciate your answer, and its nice to know that people (like yourself) are doing the best they can (in a responsible way). if Thailand [farming] was filled with people with your ethic then i (as a consumer) wouldn't be spending time to investigate this. - i wonder how many others are doing 'the best they can' (as you are).

Would I be correct in assuming that chemical (more hazardous) pesticides and fertilisers are far cheaper than the safer ones?

- if so, then there is great chance for farms to cut this corner. I was searching for a while and I found it VERY DIFFICULT to find any Pesticide Testing Re-Agents in Thailand. So I guess that Purchasers do not do any form of 'testing' on produce (to see if its not outside of safety limits).

I remember reading about the Pesticide article a short-while ago:

http://www.thaivisa....markets-bangkok

i know that fraud and corner-cutting will happen in any country (world-wide), but since 'ThaiVisa' relates to Thailand, and we are eating Thai Produce, then I am focusing on Thailand.

Generally speaking chemical fertilisers are more expensive. They are fast acting and present the nutrients in a plant available form. Whereas most composts and organic fertilisers are slow release and often the nutrients must first be biologically degraded before the nutrients become available.

The issue is when correctly applied, the chemical fertiliser will provide all the nutrients the crop needs but it does nothing for the soil and the salts used can damage the soil and its inhibitants. They contain no humus, bacteria or fungii that the soil needs. Excess chemicals can be leeched below the roots and enter ground water causing pollution, They can also become locked in altered composition in the soil.

Organic fertilisation feeds the soil and builds its substance. However because the nutrients are not as concentrated the amount needed is many times more. This presents the issue of availability. IMHO a combination of organics and naturally occuring mineral fertilisers can provide the answer feeding the soil and the plants.

Chemical herbicides and pesticides are toxins, pure and simple. Organic alternates have been farm made at practically zero cost for hundreds of years.

So why do people use the chemicals? Because it is easier, quicker and simple. The consequences are becoming all too devastingly clear. Isaan has lost metres of top soil leaving lifeless subsoil. Every year more chemicals must be applied to maintain yields. Recently Roundup, a herbicide believed for years to degrade within hours to days into a harmless substance, actually leaves a residue that is worst than the not selective poison it starts as. Crops have been genetically engineered to tolerate roundup so weeding is simply. Cattle fed these grains in the USA have recorded 45% calf abortion rates.

Here in Thailand most farmers have no idea of what is in the chemicals they use, most just follow the saleman's advice or the loudest voice among their neighbours. Equally they have no idea of the nutrient needed for the crop or the condition of their soil. Unfortunately if funds exist, most adopt the more is better stance.

Because of the long supply chain and the small individual farm outputs it is impossible to track what has been used on most foods.

What is near criminal to me, is the microscopic attention given to organic produce while there is no control of the inputs to conventional farming crops. That is backside-up!

So my friend, eat what you dare. But as a previous poster noted, wash it well before hand.

Edited October 15, 2012 by IsaanAussie