India Topples Thailand As World's Largest Rice Exporter: Usda

[Somtamnication]

........and the list of toppling goes on. Laos topples Thailand with 4g installation.................Asean countries topple Thailand with English skills...................Asean countries topple Thailand over visa fees. The only thing that Thailand has not been toppled with is HYPOCRISY.

[edwinchester]

You don't live in a productive rice area do you because if you did you would know it is perfectly possible to grow 4 crops per year.

It is possible to grown rice on the moon too but I know of nobody who has tried it because it would be extremely costly and of course make little sense. I'll be happy to admit I am wrong if you can provide one link to where farmers in Thailand are growing 4 crops of rice per year on their land in any economically fashionable way.

And no, I don't live among the rice patties (thankfully) but believe it is common knowledge their is one planting season and one harvesting season per year. But again will gladly admit my mistake of what I thought was common knowledge if you can back up your claim and will actually help spread the word about this so the farmers only growing one harvest a year can quadruple their money.

If you want my wifes phone number she can talk to you with first hand experience as she owns and farms rice paddy.

We are just north of Kanchanaburi and benefit from an excellent irrigation system allowing up to 4 crops a year if you are prepared to work hard.

[apetley]

You don't live in a productive rice area do you because if you did you would know it is perfectly possible to grow 4 crops per year.

It is possible to grown rice on the moon too but I know of nobody who has tried it because it would be extremely costly and of course make little sense. I'll be happy to admit I am wrong if you can provide one link to where farmers in Thailand are growing 4 crops of rice per year on their land in any economically fashionable way.

And no, I don't live among the rice patties (thankfully) but believe it is common knowledge their is one planting season and one harvesting season per year. But again will gladly admit my mistake of what I thought was common knowledge if you can back up your claim and will actually help spread the word about this so the farmers only growing one harvest a year can quadruple their money.

Outside of Issaan there are typically two crops per year although as said above up to four can be grown if there is enough water available.

This year our neighbour cut his crop in January, April, July and will cut again some time this month.

[Ricardo]

Much of the Chiang Mai area, those places which have an irrigation-supply from the local dams, grows a second-crop of rice each year.

Others may grow potatoes, as a second crop each year, after the main rice-growing season, which is currently approaching harvest.

[Phatcharanan]

but to truly believe the largest producer of rice in the world and a country who has depended on rice for thousands of years doesn't know how to grow or store rice or the life span of rice in storage ... that is just going a bit too far.

Thailand is not the largest producer of rice.

China is.

[Nisa]

You don't live in a productive rice area do you because if you did you would know it is perfectly possible to grow 4 crops per year.

It is possible to grown rice on the moon too but I know of nobody who has tried it because it would be extremely costly and of course make little sense. I'll be happy to admit I am wrong if you can provide one link to where farmers in Thailand are growing 4 crops of rice per year on their land in any economically fashionable way.

And no, I don't live among the rice patties (thankfully) but believe it is common knowledge their is one planting season and one harvesting season per year. But again will gladly admit my mistake of what I thought was common knowledge if you can back up your claim and will actually help spread the word about this so the farmers only growing one harvest a year can quadruple their money.

If you want my wifes phone number she can talk to you with first hand experience as she owns and farms rice paddy.

We are just north of Kanchanaburi and benefit from an excellent irrigation system allowing up to 4 crops a year if you are prepared to work hard.

A simple link to a story on the internet of farmers in Thailand producing 4 crops of rice on the same land in an economically feasible way would be sufficient.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

but to truly believe the largest producer of rice in the world and a country who has depended on rice for thousands of years doesn't know how to grow or store rice or the life span of rice in storage ... that is just going a bit too far.

Thailand is not the largest producer of rice.

China is.

Yes, wrong word. I should have said exporter but then they may not hold true when 2012 is finished either but doesn't take away from the point.

[Thai at Heart]

North east principally one crop, central areas mostly 2, maybe 3. And now reportedly 4 if irrigation available.

[otherstuff1957]

Up in Sukhothai they are producing 3 crops per year.

[edwinchester]

You don't live in a productive rice area do you because if you did you would know it is perfectly possible to grow 4 crops per year.

It is possible to grown rice on the moon too but I know of nobody who has tried it because it would be extremely costly and of course make little sense. I'll be happy to admit I am wrong if you can provide one link to where farmers in Thailand are growing 4 crops of rice per year on their land in any economically fashionable way.

And no, I don't live among the rice patties (thankfully) but believe it is common knowledge their is one planting season and one harvesting season per year. But again will gladly admit my mistake of what I thought was common knowledge if you can back up your claim and will actually help spread the word about this so the farmers only growing one harvest a year can quadruple their money.

If you want my wifes phone number she can talk to you with first hand experience as she owns and farms rice paddy.

We are just north of Kanchanaburi and benefit from an excellent irrigation system allowing up to 4 crops a year if you are prepared to work hard.

A simple link to a story on the internet of farmers in Thailand producing 4 crops of rice on the same land in an economically feasible way would be sufficient.

http://r0.unctad.org/infocomm/anglais/rice/crop.htm

[Thai at Heart]

Thailand normally produces 20-25 million tons of paddy from its major rice crop, planting in May and harvesting in November, while a second crop produces another 7-8 million tons. Farmers in well-irrigated areas grow another third, off-season crop which produces 2-4 million tons. If farmers do not grow the off-season crop, the country’s production is likely to decline by about 600,000 tons across 11 provinces.

http://oryza.com/Rice-News/14478.html

I guess if there is water available, no reason why not to grow a fourth. But certainly, there isn't only one crop per year in Thailand.

[Nisa]

A simple link to a story on the internet of farmers in Thailand producing 4 crops of rice on the same land in an economically feasible way would be sufficient.

http://r0.unctad.org/infocomm/anglais/rice/crop.htm

Of course there is nothing in your link to back up a claim of 4 harvests but as you can see above somebody has provided a link showing that the main season produces about 68% of the rice while about 22% of rice is grown in a second harvest and 11% is grown in a 3rd harvest. Good to learn something new.

25M Tons

8M Tons

4M Tons

Total 37M Tons

Edited November 2, 2012 by Nisa

[edwinchester]

A simple link to a story on the internet of farmers in Thailand producing 4 crops of rice on the same land in an economically feasible way would be sufficient.

http://r0.unctad.org/infocomm/anglais/rice/crop.htm

Of course there is nothing in your link to back up a claim of 4 harvests but as you can see above somebody has provided a link showing that the main season produces about 68% of the rice while about 22% of rice is grown in a second harvest and 11% is grown in a 3rd harvest. Good to learn something new.

25M Tons

8M Tons

4M Tons

Total 37M Tons

.........ummmmmm. The very first line says "Depending on the weather and the cycle of varieties it is possible to obtain from one to four harvests per year".

[Thai at Heart]

A simple link to a story on the internet of farmers in Thailand producing 4 crops of rice on the same land in an economically feasible way would be sufficient.

http://r0.unctad.org/infocomm/anglais/rice/crop.htm

Of course there is nothing in your link to back up a claim of 4 harvests but as you can see above somebody has provided a link showing that the main season produces about 68% of the rice while about 22% of rice is grown in a second harvest and 11% is grown in a 3rd harvest. Good to learn something new.

25M Tons

8M Tons

4M Tons

Total 37M Tons

.........ummmmmm. The very first line says "Depending on the weather and the cycle of varieties it is possible to obtain from one to four harvests per year".

In an area with good irrigation, it is doable.

[Thai at Heart]

A simple link to a story on the internet of farmers in Thailand producing 4 crops of rice on the same land in an economically feasible way would be sufficient.

http://r0.unctad.org/infocomm/anglais/rice/crop.htm

Of course there is nothing in your link to back up a claim of 4 harvests but as you can see above somebody has provided a link showing that the main season produces about 68% of the rice while about 22% of rice is grown in a second harvest and 11% is grown in a 3rd harvest. Good to learn something new.

25M Tons

8M Tons

4M Tons

Total 37M Tons

So the pledging continues with the s second crop due in 2 or 3 months. if everything isn't full now, it will be soon enough.

Eat up everyone, one more spoon on the plate to make space.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[Payboy]

I could be wrong but even clerks at 711 understand FIFO (first in first out)

No, not wrong at all. Even BTS / MRT pax, and practically everyone using an elevator does that.

[Nisa]

I could be wrong but even clerks at 711 understand FIFO (first in first out)

No, not wrong at all. Even BTS / MRT pax, and practically everyone using an elevator does that.

I think you mean doesn't do that if you are talking about Thailand

[Nisa]

Of course there is nothing in your link to back up a claim of 4 harvests but as you can see above somebody has provided a link showing that the main season produces about 68% of the rice while about 22% of rice is grown in a second harvest and 11% is grown in a 3rd harvest. Good to learn something new.

25M Tons

8M Tons

4M Tons

Total 37M Tons

.........ummmmmm. The very first line says "Depending on the weather and the cycle of varieties it is possible to obtain from one to four harvests per year".

In an area with good irrigation, it is doable.

The link actually says in general (not speaking about Thailand):

Depending on the weather and the cycle of the varieties, it is possible to obtain from one to four harvests per year.

In tropical climates, rice is generally harvested twice a year. Sometimes, there are three harvests as in Vietnam and the Mekong Delta. Up to four harvests have taken place in China. The main harvest normally occurs between December and February

It has already been shown (by your link)when talking about Thailand that a 3rd crop is barely done and the other link only mentions that a 4th harvest "has" been done (not is is regularly done) in China. It is pretty ridiculous to not just able to say rice crops are not harvested 4x a year in Thailand. I was clearly incorrect in believing the general rule of thumb was a harvest once a year ... I didn't go on about how I was right because most is only harvested once a year because I actually enjoy learning new fact as opposed to remaining ignorant on a subject.

Regardless, I think the question has been answered regarding the original point being that Thais were only use to storing rice a couple months (until the next harvest) because it is harvested 4 times a year ... clearly this is not the case.

Again, using rounding up here are the numbers for Thailand from http://oryza.com/Rice-News/14478.html

20 to 25 Million Tons - 1st harvest

7 to 8 Million Tons - 2nd harvest

2 to 4 Million Tons - 3rd harvest

As for 4th,5th or 6th harvest there is no mention in the article which is about growing in the office season.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Nisa

[Thai at Heart]

Of course there is nothing in your link to back up a claim of 4 harvests but as you can see above somebody has provided a link showing that the main season produces about 68% of the rice while about 22% of rice is grown in a second harvest and 11% is grown in a 3rd harvest. Good to learn something new.

25M Tons

8M Tons

4M Tons

Total 37M Tons

.........ummmmmm. The very first line says "Depending on the weather and the cycle of varieties it is possible to obtain from one to four harvests per year".

In an area with good irrigation, it is doable.

Still waiting for a link to show where it is done in Thailand. And your link actually says:

Depending on the weather and the cycle of the varieties, it is possible to obtain from one to four harvests per year.

In tropical climates, rice is generally harvested twice a year. Sometimes, there are three harvests as in Vietnam and the Mekong Delta. Up to four harvests have taken place in China. The main harvest normally occurs between December and February

It has already been shown when talking about Thailand that a 3rd crop is barely done and your the link only mentions that it has been done (not is is regularly done) in China. It is pretty ridiculous to not be able to simply say rice crops are not harvest 4x a year in Thailand. I was clearly incorrect in believing the general rule of thumb was a harvest once a year ... I didn't go on about how I was right because most is only harvested once a year because I actually enjoy learning new fact as opposed to remaining ignorant on a subject.

Regardless, I think the question has been answered and if there is some farm in Thailand (which nothing would indicate there is) that it would be a minuscule and the original point being that Thais are only use to storing it a couple months because it is harvested 4 times a year has been shown to be false.

Again, using rounding up here are the numbers for Thailand from http://oryza.com/Rice-News/14478.html

20 to 25 Million Tons - 1st harvest

7 to 8 Million Tons - 2nd harvest

2 to 4 Million Tons - 3rd harvest

As for 4th,5th or 6th harvest there is no mention in the article which is about growing in the office season.

That's not my link about the 4. 3 is common enough in some places. If there is available water all year round, I don't see why it can't be done. The timing is doable.

If someone says they have seen 4, i don't see the point in discarding the idea completely. There is definitely more than one, available water is the limiting factor, and i think its a good chance the 3rd crop is going to be larger than normal if the price pledge is still in place and water is available.

Problem is the areas/types produced 2 or 3 times is generally of lower desirability than some other types, and so faces more competition than say hom mali.

Face it, they need to get product moving quickly before the next crops start arriving, and keeping it in ideal conditions on an industrial scale for an extended period on an environment like Thailand is very difficult. The system is set up to get exports out rapidly. They already have 4 mn more tonnes I'm storage than this time last year.

http://www.knowledgebank.irri.org/

plenty to read about here. Seems silos aren't a perfect solution, but then they store 10k tonnes per silo at a time. That doesn't make much of a dent in millions of tonnes.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[Nisa]

That's not my link about the 4. 3 is common enough in some places. If there is available water all year round, I don't see why it can't be done. The timing is doable.

If someone says they have seen 4, i don't see the point in discarding the idea completely. There is definitely more than one, available water is the limiting factor, and i think its a good chance the 3rd crop is going to be larger than normal if the price pledge is still in place and water is available.

Problem is the areas/types produced 2 or 3 times is generally of lower desirability than some other types, and so faces more competition than say hom mali.

Face it, they need to get product moving quickly before the next crops start arriving, and keeping it in ideal conditions on an industrial scale for an extended period on an environment like Thailand is very difficult. The system is set up to get exports out rapidly. They already have 4 mn more tonnes I'm storage than this time last year.

http://www.knowledgebank.irri.org/

plenty to read about here. Seems silos aren't a perfect solution, but then they store 10k tonnes per silo at a time. That doesn't make much of a dent in millions of tonnes.

I think the original point being made has been clarified and it wasn't about what is possible but what is actually done and I said, the whole question came up because of the claim Thais only have experience storing crops a couple months until the next harvest which was followed up saying there was 4 harvests a year in Thailand.

As for "your link" .. I apologize for the confusion. I thought i was responding to another poster and after I posted I saw I wasn't and tried to fix the post but obviously not well enough.

If I am not mistaken you posted the link that showed there was a small 3rd harvest in Thailand but the other poster posted something which also seemed to indicate a 4th harvest doesn't happen in Thailand and is basically fairly rare but "had" been done in China.

But bottom line, it was still educating for me because I had thought there was one basic planting and one basic harvesting season a year but was clear from the onset I know little about rice growing but do believe that Thais not only know about rice growing and storing but can easily be called experts on the subject ... as for politics and economic stimulus and global markets, that may be a different matter all together.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

I wonder if when all is said and done if they would be better off taking the US approach and simply pay farmers no to grow things.

[Thai at Heart]

I wonder if when all is said and done if they would be better off taking the US approach and simply pay farmers no to grow things.

Maybe.

[Thai at Heart]

That's not my link about the 4. 3 is common enough in some places. If there is available water all year round, I don't see why it can't be done. The timing is doable.

If someone says they have seen 4, i don't see the point in discarding the idea completely. There is definitely more than one, available water is the limiting factor, and i think its a good chance the 3rd crop is going to be larger than normal if the price pledge is still in place and water is available.

Problem is the areas/types produced 2 or 3 times is generally of lower desirability than some other types, and so faces more competition than say hom mali.

Face it, they need to get product moving quickly before the next crops start arriving, and keeping it in ideal conditions on an industrial scale for an extended period on an environment like Thailand is very difficult. The system is set up to get exports out rapidly. They already have 4 mn more tonnes I'm storage than this time last year.

http://www.knowledgebank.irri.org/

plenty to read about here. Seems silos aren't a perfect solution, but then they store 10k tonnes per silo at a time. That doesn't make much of a dent in millions of tonnes.

I think the original point being made has been clarified and it wasn't about what is possible but what is actually done and I said, the whole question came up because of the claim Thais only have experience storing crops a couple months until the next harvest which was followed up saying there was 4 harvests a year in Thailand.

As for "your link" .. I apologize for the confusion. I thought i was responding to another poster and after I posted I saw I wasn't and tried to fix the post but obviously not well enough.

If I am not mistaken you posted the link that showed there was a small 3rd harvest in Thailand but the other poster posted something which also seemed to indicate a 4th harvest doesn't happen in Thailand and is basically fairly rare but "had" been done in China.

But bottom line, it was still educating for me because I had thought there was one basic planting and one basic harvesting season a year but was clear from the onset I know little about rice growing but do believe that Thais not only know about rice growing and storing but can easily be called experts on the subject ... as for politics and economic stimulus and global markets, that may be a different matter all together.

Its not that they dont know, it is that you cant magically come up huge extra storage capacity in one year, unless of course, people were tipped off about this, and invested in storage that may never have been used depending on last years election.

Finding an extra capacity to store this gargantuan amount for a long period isn't done overnight.

The market knows it, the Thai government knows it, its just a matter of time before they have to start dumping product to make space and maximize return versus quality loss.

[Thai at Heart]

About 95 per cent of the country's warehouses are now occupied.

taken from http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Rice-plan-export-slide-hike-warehouse-rents-30192378.html

[Nisa]

Its not that they dont know, it is that you cant magically come up huge extra storage capacity in one year, unless of course, people were tipped off about this, and invested in storage that may never have been used depending on last years election.

Finding an extra capacity to store this gargantuan amount for a long period isn't done overnight.

The market knows it, the Thai government knows it, its just a matter of time before they have to start dumping product to make space and maximize return versus quality loss.

Again, you bring up issues that are not just rational but are not the concern other(s) were expressing. As for building storage, I haven't got a clue what is involved and never made any claim this government (or any other) was an expert at planning ahead ;-)

Not knowing what is required to store rice, it is hard for me to speculate on this and being uninformed on the subject of how to store rice is probably why I have a hard time understanding why this should be a big problem or why I was shocked to read one reason they opted not to use DM Airport hanger or warehouse was because it would have cost like 10 Million baht to fix up to store the rice.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

About 95 per cent of the country's warehouses are now occupied.

taken from http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Rice-plan-export-slide-hike-warehouse-rents-30192378.html

Reading the article it would seem that the claim of 95% occupied is for government owned / controlled warehouses. While they would have to pay for private storage, it would seem there is no shortage but more of a financial concern of creating an even higher cost of the rice.

[Ricardo]

I could be wrong but even clerks at 711 understand FIFO (first in first out)

No, not wrong at all. Even BTS / MRT pax, and practically everyone using an elevator does that.

But a problem might arise, where a clerk or government-burocrat is responsible for FIFO across multiple-locations, shipping first the rice which has been stored for longest, from any of the many warehouses across the country ?

The point surely is, the rice already-in-storage has already been stored on-average for longer-than-normal, also that any shipping-chain problem may exacerbate the potential-problem even further ?

One question I have, perhaps someone else knows the answer, if (by Thaksin's late-September figures) only 4 million tons (out of 21 million) have been milled, why hasn't more of the paddy-rice been milled, to reduce the volume/tonnage of paddy-rice which needs to be stored, thus creating more empty warehouse-space available for the upcoming new-crop ? I believe removing the husks in milling would reduce the volume, needing to be stored, but I'm only going by my own experience of small village-level milling ?

Is it not being done for quality-reasons, or are there financial-implications, or what ?

Can anyone say ?

Edited November 3, 2012 by Ricardo

[edwinchester]

Note to self.

Organise meeting in the village hall today and tell wifey and the neighbours to stop growing 4 crops of rice a year because it's impossible according to an internet expert.

[Thai at Heart]

I could be wrong but even clerks at 711 understand FIFO (first in first out)

No, not wrong at all. Even BTS / MRT pax, and practically everyone using an elevator does that.

But a problem might arise, where a clerk or government-burocrat is responsible for FIFO across multiple-locations, shipping first the rice which has been stored for longest, from any of the many warehouses across the country ?

The point surely is, the rice already-in-storage has already been stored on-average for longer-than-normal, also that any shipping-chain problem may exacerbate the potential-problem even further ?

One question I have, perhaps someone else knows the answer, if (by Thaksin's late-September figures) only 4 million tons (out of 21 million) have been milled, why hasn't more of the paddy-rice been milled, to reduce the volume/tonnage of paddy-rice which needs to be stored, thus creating more empty warehouse-space available for the upcoming new-crop ? I believe removing the husks in milling would reduce the volume, needing to be stored, but I'm only going by my own experience of small village-level milling ?

Is it not being done for quality-reasons, or are there financial-implications, or what ?

Can anyone say ?

What i read is that in paddy form, once dried the first time, the husk provides more protection for the rice, than in finished form.

Helps to prevent mold, and if course, if they mill it, they have to incur the costs.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[Thai at Heart]

Its not that they dont know, it is that you cant magically come up huge extra storage capacity in one year, unless of course, people were tipped off about this, and invested in storage that may never have been used depending on last years election.

Finding an extra capacity to store this gargantuan amount for a long period isn't done overnight.

The market knows it, the Thai government knows it, its just a matter of time before they have to start dumping product to make space and maximize return versus quality loss.

Again, you bring up issues that are not just rational but are not the concern other(s) were expressing. As for building storage, I haven't got a clue what is involved and never made any claim this government (or any other) was an expert at planning ahead ;-)

Not knowing what is required to store rice, it is hard for me to speculate on this and being uninformed on the subject of how to store rice is probably why I have a hard time understanding why this should be a big problem or why I was shocked to read one reason they opted not to use DM Airport hanger or warehouse was because it would have cost like 10 Million baht to fix up to store the rice.

i am not writing this privately to you only, more discussing pptential reasons and possible issues around warehousing this volume of product. Normally by now there would have been exports to make space for coming crops.

I put up a link with the basics of rice storage for any one. But in comparison with many other parts of the world, long term storage is complicated enough when you have plenty of extra space.

As i wrote earlier, which you took as me claiming thais don't know how to store rice, if you don't have the best facilities capable of storing everything, quality deteriorates irrespective of ability, simply because the buildings aren't optimal and up to latest quality.

Why would anyone have built extra volume quality warehousing if the policy is only a year or so old and there was no guarantee the facility would ever be used.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Thai at Heart