Neeranam Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Posted Today, 13:35 Neeranam, on 2012-10-31 12:35:49, said: So, to take one example of someone I admire - the Dalai Lama - is he weak-minded or gullible, according to your enlightened self? Neeranam, on 2012-10-31 12:41:59, said: What about Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa? What about them? Not taking the piss, just trying to understand your point. None of the three you mention would have much agreement about higher levels of reality. But I agree that all three are very likely to have a more accurate picture of such than most people, including myself for sure. The point being that KarenB said belief in ghosts was for the weak-minded, gullible and superstitious. I asked which of these traits she thought HH was. Gandhi was a Hindu, and Hindus believe in ghosts. M. Theresa was Catholic, who also believe in ghosts. How many Buddhists, Hindus and Christians are there in the world? About 3.5 Billion. They all belive in ghosts. And what about Muslims and other religions - I know Jews believe in ghosts, I feel sorry for her having such a closed mind. Saying things like reincarnation doesn't happen is such an example of total closed-mindedness. 25 years ago. however, I would have have said similar things to her as I was closed-minded and basically asleep to reality. But after travelling to India and having spiritual experiences I changed. Also recovering from a progressive, fatal disease through spiritual means completely changed my view on such matters. Going on Mahayana Buddhist retreats and meeting the Dalai Lama opened my mind to many ideas/philosophies. You never realise you were sleeping until you wake up. There are many things that the human senses can't sense. Just like the bat who doesn't believe in the moon as he'[s never seen it. Edited October 31, 2012 by Neeranam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Thai Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 In fact I have no interest in trying to convince people to change their beliefs if I think they do no harm, there's enough harmful falsehoods in the world that need fixing first. That's good. At least you are not like the majority of religions which in the past would kill you in the attempt. Do you know how hard it is to be an atheist in some parts of the world? America included. It shouldn't be hard to be an atheist in any part of the world. It would only get hard when you try to tell other people that they should be atheists as well. If you kept your beliefs to yourself, then no one would know or care what you believe. Why should America be different to any other place in the world ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 In fact I have no interest in trying to convince people to change their beliefs if I think they do no harm, there's enough harmful falsehoods in the world that need fixing first. That's good. At least you are not like the majority of religions which in the past would kill you in the attempt. Do you know how hard it is to be an atheist in some parts of the world? America included. It shouldn't be hard to be an atheist in any part of the world. It would only get hard when you try to tell other people that they should be atheists as well. If you kept your beliefs to yourself, then no one would know or care what you believe. Why should America be different to any other place in the world ? I'd say that many atheists believe in ghosts due to all the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Posted Today, 13:35 Neeranam, on 2012-10-31 12:35:49, said: So, to take one example of someone I admire - the Dalai Lama - is he weak-minded or gullible, according to your enlightened self? Neeranam, on 2012-10-31 12:41:59, said: What about Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa? What about them? Not taking the piss, just trying to understand your point. None of the three you mention would have much agreement about higher levels of reality. But I agree that all three are very likely to have a more accurate picture of such than most people, including myself for sure. The point being that KarenB said belief in ghosts was for the weak-minded, gullible and superstitious. I asked which of these traits she thought HH was. Gandhi was a Hindu, and Hindus believe in ghosts. M. Theresa was Catholic, who also believe in ghosts. I feel sorry for her having such a closed mind. Saying things like reincarnation doesn't happen is such an example of total closed-mindedness. 25 years ago. however, I would have have said similar things to her as I was closed-minded and basically asleep to reality. But after travelling to India and having spiritual experiences I changed. Also recovering from a progressive, fatal disease through spiritual means completely changed my view on such matters. Going on Mahayana Buddhist retreats and meeting the Dalai Lama opened my mind to many ideas/philosophies. You never realise you were sleeping until you wake up. There are many things that the human senses can't sense. Just like the bat who doesn't believe in the moon as he'[s never seen it. What a complete pile of steaming cobblers. I really did laugh my arse off. Please explain how you sensed something without your human senses? Bat's do have eyesight.....they just don't use it for navigation. Maybe you should brush-up on your hard science. Are you saying that just because Mother Theresa and Gandhi believed, that should be enough for me to believe? Sorry, Neeranam. I've been on TV for many years and I know your history which held many problems in the past. Seems to me that your whole life you have been seeking a nice comfy crutch and you've managed to find quite a few. At least they're not as destructive as previous ones you've used. Edited October 31, 2012 by KarenBravo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 In fact I have no interest in trying to convince people to change their beliefs if I think they do no harm, there's enough harmful falsehoods in the world that need fixing first. That's good. At least you are not like the majority of religions which in the past would kill you in the attempt. Do you know how hard it is to be an atheist in some parts of the world? America included. It shouldn't be hard to be an atheist in any part of the world. It would only get hard when you try to tell other people that they should be atheists as well. If you kept your beliefs to yourself, then no one would know or care what you believe. Why should America be different to any other place in the world ? I'd say that many atheists believe in ghosts due to all the evidence. Hard scientific evidence please.......not from new-age blogs. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 In fact I have no interest in trying to convince people to change their beliefs if I think they do no harm, there's enough harmful falsehoods in the world that need fixing first. That's good. At least you are not like the majority of religions which in the past would kill you in the attempt. Do you know how hard it is to be an atheist in some parts of the world? America included. It shouldn't be hard to be an atheist in any part of the world. It would only get hard when you try to tell other people that they should be atheists as well. If you kept your beliefs to yourself, then no one would know or care what you believe. Why should America be different to any other place in the world ? I imagine it would be hard, if not downright dangerous, to be an Atheist in a fundamentalist Muslim culture. Keeping that belief to oneself just wouldn't work. Questions would be asked as to why you weren't attending the mosque or praying five times a day. Being an Atheist would be akin to having an allegiance with the devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Posted Today, 13:35 Neeranam, on 2012-10-31 12:35:49, said: So, to take one example of someone I admire - the Dalai Lama - is he weak-minded or gullible, according to your enlightened self? Neeranam, on 2012-10-31 12:41:59, said: What about Mahatma Gandhi, Mother Theresa? What about them? Not taking the piss, just trying to understand your point. None of the three you mention would have much agreement about higher levels of reality. But I agree that all three are very likely to have a more accurate picture of such than most people, including myself for sure. The point being that KarenB said belief in ghosts was for the weak-minded, gullible and superstitious. I asked which of these traits she thought HH was. Gandhi was a Hindu, and Hindus believe in ghosts. M. Theresa was Catholic, who also believe in ghosts. I feel sorry for her having such a closed mind. Saying things like reincarnation doesn't happen is such an example of total closed-mindedness. 25 years ago. however, I would have have said similar things to her as I was closed-minded and basically asleep to reality. But after travelling to India and having spiritual experiences I changed. Also recovering from a progressive, fatal disease through spiritual means completely changed my view on such matters. Going on Mahayana Buddhist retreats and meeting the Dalai Lama opened my mind to many ideas/philosophies. You never realise you were sleeping until you wake up. There are many things that the human senses can't sense. Just like the bat who doesn't believe in the moon as he'[s never seen it. What a complete pile of steaming cobblers. I really did laugh my arse off. Please explain how you sensed something without your human senses? Bat's do have eyesight.....they just don't use it for navigation. Maybe you should brush-up on your hard science. Are you saying that just because Mother Theresa and Gandhi believed, that should be enough for me to believe? Sorry, Neeranam. I've been on TV for many years and I know your history which held many problems in the past. Seems to me that your whole life you have been seeking a nice comfy crutch and you've managed to find quite a few. At least they're not as destructive as previous ones you've used. Well I'm happy, you make me laugh and I make you laugh! I'll pray for you.... oh I suppose you'll say that is for the weak-minded too. As for the bats - they have senses we don't and we have ones other animals don't. Change it to pigs - they can't look up, so they only have faith in the existence of the moon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Why should America be different to any other place in the world ? Admittedly, not so hard in the USA as other places, but, should you decide to seek public office, you could never get elected. There isn't a single self-declared atheist in public office in the USA. Wonder why that is? Could be atheists are discriminated against? Edited October 31, 2012 by KarenBravo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hard scientific evidence please.......not from new-age blogs. Thanks. You give me proof that reincarnation doesn't happen first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Do you know how hard it is to be an atheist in some parts of the world? America included. Not at all as long as you don't go on about it, maybe give a socially-required lip service to keep from being killed or bypassed for promotion if needed. And even if it's the case that organized religions have generally done more harm than good in the world historically, doesn't mean there isn't any validity to the phenomena that triggered their creation, or the underlying ideas at their core, most of which are shared across all times and cultures. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 You give me proof that reincarnation doesn't happen first. Can't prove a negative, logically impossible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2012 Logic is not a word that these new-age nutters and religious types understand. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Do you know how hard it is to be an atheist in some parts of the world? America included. Not at all as long as you don't go on about it, maybe give a socially-required lip service to keep from being killed or bypassed for promotion if needed. And even if it's the case that organized religions have generally done more harm than good in the world historically, doesn't mean there isn't any validity to the phenomena that triggered their creation, or the underlying ideas at their core, most of which are shared across all times and cultures. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. The only validity I see is the common fear of all peoples (cultures) of nothingness after death. Edited October 31, 2012 by giddyup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Thai Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Please explain how you sensed something without your human senses? I've been on TV for many years and I know your history which held many problems in the past. Seems to me that your whole life you have been seeking a nice comfy crutch and you've managed to find quite a few. At least they're not as destructive as previous ones you've used. Aaaah Karen. Attacking the poster rather than the post. The last refuge of the defeated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Logic is not a word that these new-age nutters and religious types understand. Logical minds allow a possibility for the impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) Yet......even the Christians get death wrong. They are convinced that they will go to heaven and meet all their loved ones. Yet, if you read the Bible, everyone stays dead until Judgement day when blah, blah, blah "and the sea shall give up the dead". According to the Bible, heaven and hell are presently empty. Large swaths of mankind used to believe in Zeus and the Greek god living on Mount Olympus, or, the Roman gods, or, the Egyptian gods, or, Norse gods. Where are these gods now? I'm with John Lennon on this one:- Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people living life in peace Edited October 31, 2012 by KarenBravo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'd say that many atheists believe in ghosts due to all the evidence. You'd be very wrong. Most atheists take the extreme pseudo-scientific "skeptic" POV KarenBravo's exhibiting. I'm the most open-minded atheist I know and I certainly don't believe in "ghosts" as such. However I do concede that it's quite possible that there are phenomena we don't understand that people have interpreted as such, there may very well be ways for different physical dimensions of space and time to interact or something to explain them whatever I don't know. My main point is I don't just say "everything not fully explained by today's level of "hard science" is total BS and impossible, ir our current instruments can't detect it therefore it doesn't exist" because anyone looking at the evolution of human knowledge knows that has proven to be false at every stage so far, why should this one be any difference? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Please explain how you sensed something without your human senses? I've been on TV for many years and I know your history which held many problems in the past. Seems to me that your whole life you have been seeking a nice comfy crutch and you've managed to find quite a few. At least they're not as destructive as previous ones you've used. Aaaah Karen. Attacking the poster rather than the post. The last refuge of the defeated. Not attacking the poster at all. I've always liked Neeranam, especially in the old days, but, he knows what I mean. Defeated? Yes I will admit defeat when you can point me to some scientific proof that backs up your beliefs. I've told you, I have an open mind that can be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 M. Theresa was Catholic, who also believe in ghosts. I wasn't aware that the notion of ghosts here on Earth is part of that dogma. I know many many fervent Christians that definitely don't believe in ghosts. Do you yourself really believe in them, like after you die, the sensory awareness and self-conscious personality that you call "I" becomes a body-less spirit that can float around in the world amongst the living, and see and hear and mess with us? What is your nationality, religion and cultural background if you don't mind revealing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Thai Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Why should America be different to any other place in the world ? Admittedly, not so hard in the USA as other places, but, should you decide to seek public office, you could never get elected. There isn't a single self-declared atheist in public office in the USA. Wonder why that is? Could be atheists are discriminated against? Not discrimination, most people would prefer that someone representing them would have a similar belief system to themselves. Why would anyone vote for someone who didn't represent their views on life and the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Logic is not a word that these new-age nutters and religious types understand. Logical minds allow a possibility for the impossible “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Why should America be different to any other place in the world ? Admittedly, not so hard in the USA as other places, but, should you decide to seek public office, you could never get elected. There isn't a single self-declared atheist in public office in the USA. Wonder why that is? Could be atheists are discriminated against? Not discrimination, most people would prefer that someone representing them would have a similar belief system to themselves. Why would anyone vote for someone who didn't represent their views on life and the world. Please google "discrimination against atheist in the usa". There is lots there that may change your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Thai Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Please explain how you sensed something without your human senses? I've been on TV for many years and I know your history which held many problems in the past. Seems to me that your whole life you have been seeking a nice comfy crutch and you've managed to find quite a few. At least they're not as destructive as previous ones you've used. Aaaah Karen. Attacking the poster rather than the post. The last refuge of the defeated. Not attacking the poster at all. I've always liked Neeranam, especially in the old days, but, he knows what I mean. Defeated? Yes I will admit defeat when you can point me to some scientific proof that backs up your beliefs. I've told you, I have an open mind that can be changed. You show me where Science has created life from non life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Logic is not a word that these new-age nutters and religious types understand. Logical minds allow a possibility for the impossible “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” Do you know how ironic it is to quote that quote when you are supporting ghosts and other paranormal <deleted>? They ARE the impossible (no evidence seen), therefore what remains must be the truth. i.e. they don't and have never existed. It's an Arthur Conan Doyle quote. The man was very interested in the "spirit world", yet, I'm sure his most famous creation would laugh his arse off at the belief in ghosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Logic is not a word that these new-age nutters and religious types understand. Logical minds allow a possibility for the impossible “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” Do you know how ironic it is to quote that quote when you are supporting ghosts and other paranormal <deleted>? They ARE the impossible (no evidence seen), therefore what remains must be the truth. i.e. they don't and have never existed. It's an Arthur Conan Doyle quote. The man was very interested in the "spirit world", yet, I'm sure his most famous creation would laugh his arse off at the belief in ghosts. I think you have the wrong poster. Nowhere, either in this thread or any other have I supported the belief in ghosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJohnnyBKK Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 You show me where Science has created life from non life. Science doesn't have to "create" life, just explain (one day) how nature did. And they've made some pretty decent progress given the currently very primitive levels of our knowledge. How do you think life got its start in the universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Please explain how you sensed something without your human senses? I've been on TV for many years and I know your history which held many problems in the past. Seems to me that your whole life you have been seeking a nice comfy crutch and you've managed to find quite a few. At least they're not as destructive as previous ones you've used. Aaaah Karen. Attacking the poster rather than the post. The last refuge of the defeated. Not attacking the poster at all. I've always liked Neeranam, especially in the old days, but, he knows what I mean. Defeated? Yes I will admit defeat when you can point me to some scientific proof that backs up your beliefs. I've told you, I have an open mind that can be changed. You show me where Science has created life from non life. The container they used was from a previous life-form. Scientists replicated the earths early atmosphere using chemicals and electricity and made amino acids which are the building blocks of life. Anyway...the way I see it, God isn't necessary, because we definitely know life exists and it can be proven, unlike the said God. Prove God made life.....can you do that? http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/may/20/craig-venter-synthetic-life-form http://www.livescience.com/3214-life-created-lab.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Thai Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Why should America be different to any other place in the world ? Admittedly, not so hard in the USA as other places, but, should you decide to seek public office, you could never get elected. There isn't a single self-declared atheist in public office in the USA. Wonder why that is? Could be atheists are discriminated against? Not discrimination, most people would prefer that someone representing them would have a similar belief system to themselves. Why would anyone vote for someone who didn't represent their views on life and the world. Please google "discrimination against atheist in the usa". There is lots there that may change your mind. Minorities are discriminated in every part of the world. Discrimination usually = Not being able to do things the way I believe they should be done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Logical minds allow a possibility for the impossible “When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.” Do you know how ironic it is to quote that quote when you are supporting ghosts and other paranormal <deleted>? They ARE the impossible (no evidence seen), therefore what remains must be the truth. i.e. they don't and have never existed. It's an Arthur Conan Doyle quote. The man was very interested in the "spirit world", yet, I'm sure his most famous creation would laugh his arse off at the belief in ghosts. I think you have the wrong poster. Nowhere, either in this thread or any other have I supported the belief in ghosts. Sorry, I thought the link was connected to the post above yours. Apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Right......I'm off to meet some spirits (of a different kind). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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