Are Thai Ghosts/spirits Different ?

[I Like Thai]

Not attacking the poster at all. I've always liked Neeranam, especially in the old days, but, he knows what I mean.

Defeated?

Yes I will admit defeat when you can point me to some scientific proof that backs up your beliefs.

I've told you, I have an open mind that can be changed.

You show me where Science has created life from non life.

The container they used was from a previous life-form.

Scientists replicated the earths early atmosphere using chemicals and electricity and made amino acids which are the building blocks of life.

Anyway...the way I see it, God isn't necessary, because we definitely know life exists and it can be proven, unlike the said God.

Prove God made life.....can you do that?

http://www.guardian....hetic-life-form

http://www.livescien...reated-lab.html

I'm the one arguing beliefs. You are arguing science. I don't need to prove anything, that's the role of Science.

Am I correct in believing that you cannot show in a Scientific manner that life can be created from non life ?

A simple Yes or No should suffice

[giddyup]

Right......I'm off to meet some spirits (of a different kind).

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I'm the one arguing beliefs. You are arguing science. I don't need to prove anything, that's the role of Science.

Am I correct in believing that you cannot show in a Scientific manner that life can be created from non life ?

A simple Yes or No should suffice

Again:

Science doesn't have to "create" life, just explain (one day) how nature did. And they've made some pretty decent progress given the currently very primitive levels of our knowledge.

Please do answer:

How do you think life got its start in the universe?

In other words, what is your religion?

I believe that Buddhism makes no such claim, one of the reasons most religious type say it's not actually a religion more of a science or philosophy.

Where do Buddhists believe Life came from?

Or are they honest like the rest of us and say "huh? how should I know? what's it to you?"

[KarenBravo]

Not yet.....but, ask me in ten, twenty years time. They are very close.

Very convenient that you don't have to "prove" anything. Intellectually very cowardly.

Please explain why you believe in ghosts and spirits but don't believe in Leprechauns and father Xmas.

[KarenBravo]

Right......I'm off to meet some spirits (of a different kind).

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

I've always loved Dorothy Parker. Here's another one.

"A fool and his money are soon partying".

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Please explain why you believe in ghosts and spirits but don't believe in Leprechauns and father Xmas.

I'm pretty sure the answer is because those supernatural entities aren't part of the dogma taught by his religion.

Aren't their Irish who still believe in leprechauns?

[I Like Thai]

Please explain why you believe in ghosts and spirits but don't believe in Leprechauns and father Xmas.

I'm pretty sure the answer is because those supernatural entities aren't part of the dogma taught by his religion.

Aren't their Irish who still believe in leprechauns?

Shows you how wrong you might be. I am Irish and I grew up in Catholic Ireland. So Leprechauns and Father Xmas would have been part of the Dogma

Edited October 31, 2012 by I Like Thai

[Neeranam]

M. Theresa was Catholic, who also believe in ghosts.

I wasn't aware that the notion of ghosts here on Earth is part of that dogma.

I know many many fervent Christians that definitely don't believe in ghosts.

Do you yourself really believe in them, like after you die, the sensory awareness and self-conscious personality that you call "I" becomes a body-less spirit that can float around in the world amongst the living, and see and hear and mess with us?

What is your nationality, religion and cultural background if you don't mind revealing that?

Mmm... ok - I'm Scottish, brought up by Protestant parents. My father was training to be a minister until he saw the light and became agnostic. I studied mathematics(including logic), physics and psychology at university but ended up with a degree in Engineering - long story.

I started studying Eastern martial arts in my teens which got me interested in eastern philosophies/religions. I was atheist until around 22 when I got interested in a sect of Hinduism - Raja Yoga. Studied many different meditations/yogas in India and Thailand, where I came to learn Thai boxing, meditation and take lots of booze/drugs!

Do I believe in ghosts? Not as portrayed on Thai tv !

I believe we are spiritual beings having a human experience. I believe in reincarnation and have witnessed proof of it.

I am a soul - a infinitesimal point of light. The soul has 3 separate faculties - mind, intellect and personality. There is scientific proof of the soul. I believe when our bodies die, we go to some kind of soul world, where a 'supreme soul' resides. Possibly, ghosts are stuck on this earth for a while as they have become too attached to their bodies or it is not time for that soul to pass on to the other world.

I am not religious but try to live a spiritual life. My beliefs, however lie somewhere between Hinduism, Budhism and Judaism.

Religion is for those who don't want to go to hell - spirituality is for those who have been there!

Also, I've been hypnotically regressed on TV to a former life. Uri Geller was also on the show - I find his story incredible, especially how the US government hired him to find Saddam Hussain and how he got his powers from an extraterrestial!

Edited October 31, 2012 by Neeranam

[FritsSikkink]

That may be so - I'm waiting for more evidence before making up my mind.

Here are 50 reasons: http://godisimaginary.com/

[giddyup]

M. Theresa was Catholic, who also believe in ghosts.

I wasn't aware that the notion of ghosts here on Earth is part of that dogma.

I know many many fervent Christians that definitely don't believe in ghosts.

Do you yourself really believe in them, like after you die, the sensory awareness and self-conscious personality that you call "I" becomes a body-less spirit that can float around in the world amongst the living, and see and hear and mess with us?

What is your nationality, religion and cultural background if you don't mind revealing that?

Mmm... ok - I'm Scottish, brought up by Protestant parents. My father was training to be a minister until he saw the light and became agnostic. I studied mathematics(including logic), physics and psychology at university but ended up with a degree in Engineering - long story.

I started studying Eastern martial arts in my teens which got me interested in eastern philosophies/religions. I was atheist until around 22 when I got interested in a sect of Hinduism - Raja Yoga. Studied many different meditations/yogas in India and Thailand, where I came to learn Thai boxing, meditation and take lots of booze/drugs!

Do I believe in ghosts? Not as portrayed on Thai tv !

I believe we are spiritual beings having a human experience. I believe in reincarnation and have witnessed proof of it.

I am a soul - a infinitesimal point of light. The soul has 3 separate faculties - mind, intellect and personality. There is scientific proof of the soul. I believe when our bodies die, we go to some kind of soul world, where a 'supreme soul' resides. Possibly, ghosts are stuck on this earth for a while as they have become too attached to their bodies or it is not time for that soul to pass on to the other world.

I am not religious but try to live a spiritual life. My beliefs, however lie somewhere between Hinduism, Budhism and Judaism.

Religion is for those who don't want to go to hell - spirituality is for those who have been there!

Also, I've been hypnotically regressed on TV to a former life. Uri Geller was also on the show - I find his story incredible, especially how the US government hired him to find Saddam Hussain and how he got his powers from an extraterrestial!

A couple of questions. What "proof" do you have of reincarnation and of the existence of a "soul?"

[KarenBravo]

There is scientific proof of the soul.

Please post a link to this "scientific proof". I would love to believe in life after death.

[kennedy]

When a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

[KarenBravo]

When a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

No. It has latent sound.

For sound you need a "receiver" of some kind, whether it be an ear, or a microphone.

[I Like Thai]

When a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

No. It has latent sound.

For sound you need a "receiver" of some kind, whether it be an ear, or a microphone.

It could even be possible for different animals to hear different noises when the trees fall. It all depends on how the ear and brain are wired. I know for a Fact that Men and Women hear different sounds.

Edited October 31, 2012 by I Like Thai

[giddyup]

There is scientific proof of the soul.

Please post a link to this "scientific proof". I would love to believe in life after death.

I hope he's not going to trundle out the "proof" that we weigh less after death because the "soul" has left the body.

[Morakot]

There is no difference both exist in the fantasy of the believer only.

I'm afraid, this is a rather impoverished view of the world.

Ghosts in Thailand are a part of a collective consciousness.

[Neeranam]

There is scientific proof of the soul.

Please post a link to this "scientific proof". I would love to believe in life after death.

I hope he's not going to trundle out the "proof" that we weigh less after death because the "soul" has left the body.

Why not - I remember watching a tv program about that.

http://www.scribd.co...-Such-Substance

There is so much proof and just common sense. Out of body experiences - which I've had to name one.

Also, are you the same person as you were when you were say 7 years old? How come? Not one physical cell of your body is the same.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Neeranam

[KarenBravo]

From the link in post #101.

Many Christians find the phenomenon of Near Death Experiences (NDEs) to be proof that "God" and the "afterlife" exist. As described in this article, an NDE contains these characteristics:

• The sudden awareness that one has had a 'fatal" accident and not survived.
  
• An out-of-body experience. A sensation of floating above one's body and seeing the surrounding area.
  
• Pleasant feelings, calmness.
  
• A sensation of moving upwards through a tunnel or narrow passageway.
  
• Meeting deceased relatives or spiritual figures
  
• Encountering a being of light, or a light (possibly a religious figure, i.e. Jesus, God, Buddha)
  
• Being given a life review
  
• A feeling of being returned to the body, often accompanied by a reluctance to return
  

Things like heart attacks, near-drowning and severe loss of blood can all trigger near death experiences.

NDEs have been experienced by thousands of people and have been widely cataloged in a variety of books. Many of these books are "spiritual" or "religious" in nature.

What is not mentioned is that there is a drug called Ketamine that produces all of the elements of an NDE when it is injected into normal, non-dying people. In other words, an NDE is a natural, chemically induced state that the human brain enters. The trigger for an NDE is lack of oxygen to the brain and body. If you read scientific papers like these, you find that there is a completely chemical and completely non-spiritual reason for the features of every NDE.

Is this a direct proof that God is imaginary? No. However, it is a direct proof that the NDE (which many people use as "indisputable" proof that God and eternal life exist) has no supernatural meaning. We can scientificaly prove NDEs to be chemical side-effects rather than "a gateway to the afterlife" as many religious believers claim.

And a refutation of the 21 gram theory:-

This myth, reinforced by a 2003 fictional movie by the otherwise rather cryptic title “21 grams” is occasionally thrown to non-supernaturalists as one more “proof” that we are fools, by our own standards of reason and evidence.

It turns out that the only source for the 21 gram figure is a discredited study carried out in 1907 by a Haverhill, Massachusetts, doctor by the name of Duncan MacDougall. He managed (apparently overcoming any ethical qualms over human experimentation) to put six dying people on a bed equipped with sensitive springs, and claimed to have observed a sudden loss of weight – about ¾ of an ounce – at the exact moment of their death. Having reasoned that such loss could not be explained by bowel movements or evaporation, he concluded he must have measured the weight of the soul. A follow-up experiment also showed that dogs (which were healthy, so they were probably poisoned on purpose by the good doctor) don't seem to suffer the same sort of loss, therefore they don't have souls (sorry, you canine lovers).

This is an excellent example of where pseudoscience and belief go wrong, on a variety of levels. Let us start with MacDougall's claim itself: it turns out that his data were decidedly unreliable by any decent scientific standard. Not only was the experiment never repeated (by either MaDougall or anyone else), but his own notes (published in American Medicine in March 1907) show that of the six data points, two had to be discarded as “of no value”; two recorded a weight drop, followed by additional losses later on (was the soul leaving bit by bit?); one showed a reversal of the loss, then another loss (the soul couldn't make up its mind, leaving, re-entering, then leaving for good); and only one case actually constitutes the basis of the legendary estimate of ¾ of an ounce. With data like these, it's a miracle the paper got published in the first place.

Come on Neeranam, some real proof please. I'm just dying to believe in life after death.

Edited October 31, 2012 by KarenBravo

[payak]

mother theresa had an exorcism not long before she passed.

organised by the vatican.

[uptheos]

mother theresa had an exorcism not long before she passed.

organised by the vatican.

I think Chris Hitchen's would have approved of that........he considered her evil.

[payak]

mother theresa had an exorcism not long before she passed.

organised by the vatican.

I think Chris Hitchen's would have approved of that........he considered her evil.

im serious she really did.

its often the holy who became possessed catholics say.

the exorcists are very busy in italy right now, working on hundreds of cases a year, funny enough the unit that performs the exorcisms is banned from entering the vatican despite being trained and ordained by the vatican.

the exorcist themselves believe there are high level people in the vatican under evil control who dont want them in there, vatican infighting.

im buddhist by the way not catholic, interisting point, the vatican has the lowest age of consent, go figure, just to save face with there current sex rep, you would think they would chang that

[mauGR1]

Despite what some people say, if you drink alcohol you are less likely to have supernatural experiences.

This could explain why so many people in this Forum have never seen or heard a ghost

Many " Mediums " are said to have become alcoholics, to cut the bridges with the supernatural.

I believe our imperfect senses can perceive just a tiny fraction of what is going around us, and , of course, a few well rooted prejudices are most likely to influence deeply our perception of " reality ".

[Neeranam]

Come on Neeranam, some real proof please. I'm just dying to believe in life after death.

If you're going to post such nonsensical biased unscientific crap, forget it.

[partington]

Despite what some people say, if you drink alcohol you are less likely to have supernatural experiences.

This could explain why so many people in this Forum have never seen or heard a ghost

Many " Mediums " are said to have become alcoholics, to cut the bridges with the supernatural.

I believe our imperfect senses can perceive just a tiny fraction of what is going around us, and , of course, a few well rooted prejudices are most likely to influence deeply our perception of " reality ".

There is no evidence that anyone can see or hear dead people, so of course there is no evidence that drinking alcohol makes you more or less likely to experience this disputed phenomenon. You can say anything you want but, so can I. Drinking alcohol makes you less not more likely to see Gandalf.

Additionally your statement that our imperfect senses can perceive just a tiny fraction of what is going on around us, is not relevant to anything. Of course this is true, and very well known to be true. Humans cannot hear ultrasonic sounds or see infra-red or hear radio waves or see radioactivity or x-rays. We know this.

The point is: some people claim to see ghosts. Therefore they believe that our imperfect senses are able to perceive ghosts. Most people who claim to see ghosts, especially Thais, would claim that ghosts can be seen by anybody, therefore you don't need special senses to see them. Therefore it's not relevant to these particular claims whether our senses are imperfect or not.

What these people say is: we can see ghosts and so they exist.

But there is no evidence at all that this claim is true and saying that humans have imperfect senses makes it neither less or more true.

[mauGR1]

Despite what some people say, if you drink alcohol you are less likely to have supernatural experiences.

This could explain why so many people in this Forum have never seen or heard a ghost

Many " Mediums " are said to have become alcoholics, to cut the bridges with the supernatural.

I believe our imperfect senses can perceive just a tiny fraction of what is going around us, and , of course, a few well rooted prejudices are most likely to influence deeply our perception of " reality ".

There is no evidence that anyone can see or hear dead people, so of course there is no evidence that drinking alcohol makes you more or less likely to experience this disputed phenomenon. You can say anything you want but, so can I. Drinking alcohol makes you less not more likely to see Gandalf.

Additionally your statement that our imperfect senses can perceive just a tiny fraction of what is going on around us, is not relevant to anything. Of course this is true, and very well known to be true. Humans cannot hear ultrasonic sounds or see infra-red or hear radio waves or see radioactivity or x-rays. We know this.

The point is: some people claim to see ghosts. Therefore they believe that our imperfect senses are able to perceive ghosts. Most people who claim to see ghosts, especially Thais, would claim that ghosts can be seen by anybody, therefore you don't need special senses to see them. Therefore it's not relevant to these particular claims whether our senses are imperfect or not.

What these people say is: we can see ghosts and so they exist.

But there is no evidence at all that this claim is true and saying that humans have imperfect senses makes it neither less or more true.

If you read the last line of my previous post, you can understand why you will probably never see or hear a ghost.

Personally i am not looking for ghosts, and that's why i never see or hear them.

Now, it's not quite logical to deny the existence of something just because you can't or you don't see, isn't it ?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

That may be so - I'm waiting for more evidence before making up my mind.

Here are 50 reasons: http://godisimaginary.com/

Sorry, crossed wires there, I'm very much an atheist.

I actually I was talking about believing whether or not the poster I was responding to was actually open-minded or not as he claimed.

[payak]

many abused children have out of body experiences, even knowing whats happening in surrounding rooms becauses they claim to have walked into the rooms, there way of cutting off from there abuser.

[MZurf]

In the west most people know that there are no ghosts/spirits.

I've seen the white pale hand of my grandma rise from my bedside with the lights on in my room at age 7,

I bet that's when you progressed from a mere turtle to a turbo turtle!!

[KarenBravo]

Come on Neeranam, some real proof please. I'm just dying to believe in life after death.

If you're going to post such nonsensical biased unscientific crap, forget it.

Well.....that is rich coming from you.

[tfc]

When a tree falls in the forest and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a sound?

No. It has latent sound.

For sound you need a "receiver" of some kind, whether it be an ear, or a microphone.

It could even be possible for different animals to hear different noises when the trees fall. It all depends on how the ear and brain are wired. I know for a Fact that Men and Women hear different sounds.

Yes I hear nagging she hears constructive suggestions.