Palestinian Missile Hits Jerusalem's Outskirts

[Jingthing]

Withdraw to the '67 border, move the wall to that line is not possible, 6 million Jews need land and house in Israel and Palestine.

It has to be possible or there will never be peace.

Do the Israelis WANT to live under threat for eternity? The Arabs aren't going to go away quietly.

There doesn't have to be anything. All we know is that there will be change of some kind over time. There are many possible outcomes. For example, Israel could be defeated and no longer exist. As much as it is true that Israel enjoys military superiority in the region, it remains surrounded by hostile forces on all sides, not to mention Iran and their friend Russia. Edited November 18, 2012 by Jingthing

[Scott]

Speculative and off-topic posts have been removed.

[Samuimike1]

"When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing ... You can't defend yourself when you are military occupying someone else's land. That is not defense. Call it what you like, it's not defense " Noam Chomsk

[Jingthing]

"When Israelis in the occupied territories now claim that they have to defend themselves, they are defending themselves in the sense that any military occupier has to defend itself against the population they are crushing ... You can't defend yourself when you are military occupying someone else's land. That is not defense. Call it what you like, it's not defense " Noam Chomsk

That quote makes absolute no sense in the context of GAZA. Israel is not occupying Gaza. Indeed, Chomsky was not talking about the Gaza rocket situation at all when he said that quote.

Yes, Obama has got this one right. Israel is DEFENDING itself against rocket attacks from Gaza. Any other country would do the same in response to just ONE rocket. Not to mention THOUSANDS of them.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

Here is an example of Pallywood faking casualties for western useful idiots to rant and rave over. This time it's the BBC caught with it's pants down running obviously faked casualties.

http://order-order.com/2012/11/15/bbc-news-runs-fake-palestinian-casualty-spin-footage/

[simple1]

Here is an example of Pallywood faking casualties for western useful idiots to rant and rave over. This time it's the BBC caught with it's pants down running obviously faked casualties.

http://order-order.c...y-spin-footage/

UPDATE: This just in from a BBC spokesman:

To the best of our knowledge the pictures do not show any kind of ‘staged’ event – and were run in good faith. The footage shown by BBC News was edited from a longer sequence provided by the Reuters news agency in which the man in question is shown being lifted from the ground. He is then given attention at the roadside, before appearing later having recovered. We ran a shorter edit of those pictures, and would point out that some re-uses of our output by others online have compressed the sequence further. Steps have been taken to ensure any re-broadcast reflects the full sequence so that it is absolutely clear to our audiences.

[Morch]

To date none of the surrounding states have mouned a massive attack on Israel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War

Granted, these were a while back,

The "fragile peace" currently exists only between Israel and two of its neighbors (Egypt and Jordan). The rest are mostly ceasefire agreements or not even that.

History hasn't shown that Israel isn't under threat, but that it managed to repel such threats. Not quite the same thing.

The current rhetoric (from all sides) is pretty much re-cycled material from previous clashes.

Both sides have shown an unwillingness to compromise and/or trust one another. The quote by the Israeli prime minister goes hand in hand with things said about Israelis/Jews by Palestinian and Arab leaders.

[ttelise]

Truth is this combined with Syria and Iran's support and supplying of weapons like Fagir-5s being lobbed at Tel Aviv, this all is going down the path to ending bad. Real bad.

Time to move past making excuses for both sides or trying to see one side's rationale. Some things cannot be rationalized as some cultures may view death and turning that whole area into glass a victory.

I am afraid if Israel does not take out all threatening rocket systems and something serious makes it into Tel Aviv, we are going to see more than air strikes and little 500 pound bombs falling on Gaza.

I am a bit surprised that there is very little media attention in US on this right now. The selfish bastard Republicans on Fox continue to whine about taxes and how much money they may lose and other news channels have typical Nancy Grace weekend fare.

Edited November 18, 2012 by ttelise

[Jingthing]

Here is an excellent take on the current clash with a rather more optimistic tone, that increased escalation can be avoided and WHY. In any case, it points out some major differences between now and the time of Cast Lead. We'll see.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/eleven-reasons-why-this-is-not-cast-lead.premium-1.478852

It all looks so depressingly similar – a devastating Israeli attack on Hamas in the Gaza Strip while hundreds of Palestinian missiles are fired at Israeli towns. Massive ground forces on the border with Gaza prepare to embark on a house-to-house battle. How very 2008. You could almost call it Operation Cast Lead II.

[uptheos]

The Palestinian cowards (Hamas) have a policy of launching rockets from crowded areas of the city. These rocket launchers must be taken out and I don't think a letter of request from Israel will do the trick......so the innocent continue to suffer.

[geriatrickid]

I see the Israelis are following the American and Syrian model and targeting buildings hosting international media in Gaza.

Nice one. You don't want people reporting the other side, do you?

Arab media building.

Yes, and Sky News. Your point?

I would not describe the facilities as offering honest reporting of event. They serve as propaganda outlets.

Hamas affiliated and suportive "news agencies" have a knack for providing staged events. It is termed Pallywood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ths2YlB4cfg

Here's another version, this time showing 2 additional actors. The "emergency" worker being carried is worthy of an honourable mention. However, the woman and children could have done a better job of showing their injuries.

Edited November 18, 2012 by geriatrickid

[ttelise]

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/49866990/?__utma=14933801.765627389.1353258572.1353258572.1353258572.1&__utmb=14933801.2.10.1353258572&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1353258572.1.1.utmcsr=google|utmccn=(organic)|utmcmd=organic|utmctr=(not%20provided)&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Cworld%20news%7Cworldnewsfranchise=1^12=Landing%20Content=Original=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=worldnews.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Earned%20to%20Original=1&__utmk=80966679#49866990

[simple1]

Of course their is propaganda, it's one of the tools of both sides in a conflict. For those pointing out that their maybe some misinformation on the number of dead & wounded in Gaza and saying one or two dead and some injured have been incorrectly reported and how bad that is, is pathetic.

Edited November 18, 2012 by simple1

[Scott]

One post that violates fair use policy has been deleted. Please only quote the first three sentences of an article and then a link to the remainder of the article. Doing otherwise can be viewed as a violation of copyright.

[Samuimike1]

Is the IDF a moral army or cowards?

Cross talk

[uptheos]

I'm surprised that Israel is showing such restraint, given the constant threat they are living with.

[Samuimike1]

Israeli, U.S. Elections and Gaza Strikes - More Than Coincidence

[geriatrickid]

Israeli, U.S. Elections and Gaza Strikes - More Than Coincidence

Hardly. The US election is over, PM Netanyahu's preferred candidate lost. If anything, he doesn't have a close friend in President Obama. Nor does he have many friends in the EU. Yes, the Israelis, might be going to the polls in January. Democratic governments do have elections. (There has not been an election in Gaza since January 2006, when Hamas won a majority in the election. Unfortunately, Hamas will not allow new parliamentary elections.What country doesn't have parliaentary elections after almost 7 years?)

Israel has been under a barrage of rockets over the past year. It came to head two weeks ago and Israel warned Hamas it would no longer show restraint. If you think that the response to Gaza is an election ploy you are mistaken. Former Lt. Gen Mofaz leads Kadima, the bloc with the most seats in the Israeli Parliament. He would have responded in the same fashion. A broad agreement must be reached between the various political parties before Israel commits to military action. Do you know why? Because everyone has a family member who can be called up or is at risk. It is the one issue where Israeli decision making crosses party lines and aims for a consensus. In Israel, every life matters and a politician that sends the IDF to war risks getting his/her head removed by the electorate if the casualties, both civilian and military, are significant.

[johna]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11/18/mehdis-morning-memo_n_2153503.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Israeli deputy prime minister, Eli Yishai

"The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages. Only then will Israel be calm for forty years."

[mania]

The coverage on aljazeera TV news has been pretty graphic

[Chicog]

I would not describe the facilities as offering honest reporting of event. They serve as propaganda outlets.

Hamas affiliated and suportive "news agencies" have a knack for providing staged events. It is termed Pallywood.

Israel has the right to reply, it does not have the right to blow them up.

Besides which I said Sky News and you posted a link to the BBC.

Nice piece of misdirection from yourself there.

[mania]

Wonder what is the "chemical stench" the paramedics are talking about when they approach the bombed sites?

[Scott]

Baiting posts and replies deleted.

Edit: Another off-topic, baiting post has been deleted.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Scott

[simple1]

I see the Israelis are following the American and Syrian model and targeting buildings hosting international media in Gaza.

Nice one. You don't want people reporting the other side, do you?

Arab media building.

Yes, and Sky News. Your point?

I would not describe the facilities as offering honest reporting of event. They serve as propaganda outlets.

Hamas affiliated and suportive "news agencies" have a knack for providing staged events. It is termed Pallywood.

Here's another version, this time showing 2 additional actors. The "emergency" worker being carried is worthy of an honourable mention. However, the woman and children could have done a better job of showing their injuries.

Hasn't international media quoted Israeli sources that the reason they bombed the the media centre was that Hamas had a communication antenna on the top of the building for communicating with their forces. Also Israel claims staff in the building were phoned to warn them to get out, obviously not all got the message.

EDIT video links deleted.

Edited November 19, 2012 by simple1

[uptheos]

"There can be farms and greenhouses on the hilltops of Gaza. Or there can be rockets".

Daniel Greenfield

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.

[OzMick]

Wonder what is the "chemical stench" the paramedics are talking about when they approach the bombed sites?

Experienced bomb disposal experts and investigators can identify most explosive substances, both before and after ignition, by their odours. Your implication (intended or not) that chemical weapons are being used is refuted by the paramedics talking about the smell, and not writhing on the ground as they die.

[OzMick]

I would not describe the facilities as offering honest reporting of event. They serve as propaganda outlets.

Hamas affiliated and suportive "news agencies" have a knack for providing staged events. It is termed Pallywood.

Israel has the right to reply, it does not have the right to blow them up.

Besides which I said Sky News and you posted a link to the BBC.

Nice piece of misdirection from yourself there.

Would a stern letter suffice, do you think?

Most children are taught "Let sleeping dogs lie, stay away from the hornet's nest, don't poke that bear with a stick." Some never learn.

[mania]

Experienced bomb disposal experts and investigators can identify most explosive substances, both before and after ignition, by their odours. Your implication (intended or not) that chemical weapons are being used is refuted by the paramedics talking about the smell, and not writhing on the ground as they die.

No implication intended or otherwise just genuine curiosity

They just had a clip of paramedics trying to find a bombed home

As they drove through the neighborhood the paramedic said

We know when we are close due to the chemical stench of the bomb

At 44 seconds in this video

[Morch]

Experienced bomb disposal experts and investigators can identify most explosive substances, both before and after ignition, by their odours. Your implication (intended or not) that chemical weapons are being used is refuted by the paramedics talking about the smell, and not writhing on the ground as they die.

No implication intended or otherwise just genuine curiosity

They just had a clip of paramedics trying to find a bombed home

As they drove through the neighborhood the paramedic said

We know when we are close due to the chemical stench of the bomb

At 44 seconds in this video

As far as I recall, most routinely used explosives got a noticeable odor after they blow.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Scott