Daughter Getting Married,his Family Won't Pay Sin Sod

[Jayman]

Personally I've always seen the sidsot as the Thai version of the engagement ring. It is a show of the man to the women that I have the means to take care of you. It would be quite a big deal for a man to ask for a young woman's hand in marriage without the gesture of an engagement ring. Even if the Husband to be is not in a financial situation to spend a great deal of money (the rule is 3 months salary) then at the very least he makes a gesture with something basic he can afford The complete lack of gesture would be quite telling in it's own right and would be projecting the message that either he will not have the means to take care of his future wife or that she is not important enough to him to get together the funds for a proper engagement ring.

I'm wondering if the man wishing to marry the OP's daughter has given her such a ring? Was an official engagement made in either western or Thai style?

Edited November 25, 2012 by Jayman

[thewug]

Its about respect... Even if you agree not to keep the money.... And if the boy and his family won't show the respect now they never will...And they will not show your daughter the respect either... Try to explain this to your daughter... But don't forbid them to get married. The reason i say this is because it gives her a choice to go against you and that might not feel good in your heart either....

[NCFC]

I truly appreciate every one of your comments and listened carefully to what each one of you has said.

I feel that my daughter has become so head-over-heels with this Thai guy is that she has has lost her sense of clear judgement. My daughter is planning an engagement ceremony for early next year and then a marriage ceremony sometime later. What do posters think? Should all the family discussions take place before the engagement ceremony or should I wait until the marriage ceremony is announced?

At least having an engagement ceremony gives me a little breathing space and to see how this pans out. I am having to deal with it myself as my Thai wife is in such a state of shock that she won't speak the the other parents and doesn't want to talk with my daughter or the boyfriend either.

[Jayman]

I truly appreciate every one of your comments and listened carefully to what each one of you has said.

I feel that my daughter has become so head-over-heels with this Thai guy is that she has has lost her sense of clear judgement. My daughter is planning an engagement ceremony for early next year and then a marriage ceremony sometime later. What do posters think? Should all the family discussions take place before the engagement ceremony or should I wait until the marriage ceremony is announced?

At least having an engagement ceremony gives me a little breathing space and to see how this pans out. I am having to deal with it myself as my Thai wife is in such a state of shock that she won't speak the the other parents and doesn't want to talk with my daughter or the boyfriend either.

Has he given her an engagement ring or have any plans to do so? Normally at the official engagement party the discussion of the sidsot is already taken place and there is even money on show for the engagement party.

Do the grooms family plan to be a part of the engagement party or the wedding?

[parallaxtech]

As long as she is not pregnant right now, why don't you get your wife to suggest to her that they live together in a condo for one year, while she is taking birth control. and this can serve as their formal engagement. As an incentive you and/or the godfather will pay for the condo. After one year, things should be clearer.

My feeling about Sin Sod is that both sides should present something of equal value to the wedding party. If the groom's side puts up 1MB than the bride's side should pay for the wedding and perhaps help with a down payment on a condo. This should be discussed amongst the parents. In many cases, though, one side is too poor to offer anything. In that situation I would just present the engagement ring and perhaps a gold bracelet or necklace. If the other family is too poor or just reluctant to offer anything than I would limit it to family members only because you are paying for it so you have control of the guest list. In this particular case I would send the father only five guest passes and instruct him to meet at your house prior to going to the temple, which is at an undisclosed location. You can blame it on the godfather by saying that he is not rich and can only pay for a small amount of guests. This might push him to be magnanimous and pay for the wedding as most wealthy people with big egos don't like being told what to do or how to do something. She could also announce that she will have a western style wedding in a church so no Sin Sod is required.

[thewug]

I beleive that you have the time to work some of this out. As you said you have some time before the engagement party.... Maybe try sitting down the son and your daughter and explain how you and your wife feels about all this.... and try to get the son to sort out his parents.... But you have some time and just us it to your advanage to either get the respect or to show your daugher what a heel this guy is...

Best wishes to your wife....

[Humbugged]

Show your daughter this topic - make her read every comment in it.........

Show your possible son inlaw this topic and make him read every comment in it.

I would hire a private dick, dig some dirt and get him setup with a little hot soapy girl.

[otherstuff1957]

Presumably your daughter's prospective parents in law are currently supporting the boy. You might ask them if they are going to continue to do so or do they expect your daughter to take on that task?

[Jayman]

Presumably your daughter's prospective parents in law are currently supporting the boy. You might ask them if they are going to continue to do so or do they expect your daughter to take on that task?

I was thinking something similar along those lines. It sounds like this man is not working and earning any income to support his new wife and potential family. It was said he is supported by his parents. They don't sound very accepting of this new marriage. Are they willing to continue the support for both of the newlyweds? What if things don't work out? Where does that leave your daughter in all this? If the parents aren't willing to make a commitment pre marriage I would seriously doubt they will post marriage. It's a man's duty (and I think even Thai law) to provide for his wife. How does this man intend to do so and if he doesn't how would your family go about fighting (lawyers I mean) with this hiso Thai family over it?

[richard_smith237]

You're a Westerner.... The concensus on TV.com is that Sin-Sod is an antiquated tradition much in the way the dowry was in the West. You can use this not to tollerate other cultural differences that appear to be nothing more than silliness and superstitious belief.

That said, I paid Sin Sod to maintain respect for my inlaws. It was returned.

I suppose the best situation would have been them offering you Sin-Sod and you suggesting that it wasn't necessary, if they wished to maintain the pretence of tradition it would be returned. After all, you don't really want their money, do you?

Your future Son In Law and his family could have handled this much better but IMO your only play was to be distant and cool and have your daughters Boy Friend and Father over to request your Daughters hand.

Of course, if they don't want to follow the Thai Tradition you can now suggest they Marry in a Western Style ceremony.

[farangme]

You're a Westerner.... The concensus on TV.com is that Sin-Sod is an antiquated tradition much in the way the dowry was in the West. You can use this not to tollerate other cultural differences that appear to be nothing more than silliness and superstitious belief.

That said, I paid Sin Sod to maintain respect for my inlaws. It was returned.

I suppose the best situation would have been them offering you Sin-Sod and you suggesting that it wasn't necessary, if they wished to maintain the pretence of tradition it would be returned. After all, you don't really want their money, do you?

Your future Son In Law and his family could have handled this much better but IMO your only play was to be distant and cool and have your daughters Boy Friend and Father over to request your Daughters hand.

Of course, if they don't want to follow the Thai Tradition you can now suggest they Marry in a Western Style ceremony.

My thoughts exactly. Since they don't want to follow Thai tradition, suggest to your daughter a western style wedding, thus eliminating the entire sin sod issue. Allows both sides to keep face.

That said, I don't know that it would resolve the major underlying bad feelings between the families that the issue has already created. Very sorry to hear the effect this has had on your wife. If I was her, I wouldn't want to talk to the boy's family either, not now or ever. Makes for a challenging future.

Given what's transpired, the young couple should acknowledge the issues that have developed and just elope, thus sparing the parents further problems.

As another poster suggested, discrediting the cad is also an option. If he just bums around every day as the OP says, I'd bet he'd be doing plenty that could be used to change your daughters opinion of him.

Sent from my PC36100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[wellred]

This whole sin sod business honestly comes across as yet another example of Thai obsession with money and materialistic things. That said they are disrespecting you so on that basis alone I would dissuade her from marrying this boy.

[hanuman2543]

Personally I've always seen the sidsot as the Thai version of the engagement ring. It is a show of the man to the women that I have the means to take care of you. It would be quite a big deal for a man to ask for a young woman's hand in marriage without the gesture of an engagement ring. Even if the Husband to be is not in a financial situation to spend a great deal of money (the rule is 3 months salary) then at the very least he makes a gesture with something basic he can afford The complete lack of gesture would be quite telling in it's own right and would be projecting the message that either he will not have the means to take care of his future wife or that she is not important enough to him to get together the funds for a proper engagement ring.

I'm wondering if the man wishing to marry the OP's daughter has given her such a ring? Was an official engagement made in either western or Thai style?

It is actually not the same like giving an engagementring. That is called Kongman and is given to the bride. The sin sod is a compensation for the parents that they loose their daughter to the grooms family, paid for her education etc and it should be paid to the parents of the bride.

[parallaxtech]

If that is the case than I wouldn't pay the Sin Sod. Most westerners view women, expecially Thais, as a financial liability. Why would you pay someone to hand over a liability? With that Thai logic, it should be the other way around as they should pay you for taking on the liability.

I believe that when two people from different cultures are being married that both cultures should either be incorporated or simply ignored. Just because you are in Thailand doesn't mean that you should follow Thai wedding customs. If an Indian and a Thai are living in the US should they only follow US wedding customs? Remember, In India the man gets the dowry. Whenever any past Thai girlfriend mentioned a Sinsod I always replied that my custom required a dowry be paid to me and that usually ended the discussion. A marriage is about two people not simply complying with the wants of a wife's greedy family (no disrespect to the op as you have been honest about your intentions). As I mentioned on a previous post, along with others, just have a western-style wedding and skip the Sin Sod bs.

[Morakot]

Tell your daughter that the sinsod is money that will actually pay for the wedding and set them up in a home of their own.

The latter is what the boy's family might fear. Lost of control over the son and potential heir...

Making the OP pay for a Thai style wedding would be taking the urine.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Morakot

[Kilgore Trout]

I also feel for your situation... I myself have a one year old daughter and see the dificulties that she will have in her life being half thai and half farang... But i think the only words now i can say to you is what i can say about my Daughter.." I always be there to pick you up if you fall down" ...I wish you all the luck in the world friend....

Michael

I'm sure calling your daughter a farang doesnt help, makes me question her self image, contributing to problems like the op

shame on you

Sent from my GT-S5660 using Thaivisa Connect App

[wellred]

Haha I was in a similar situation a while back and I too mentioned the fact that if we were following each others cultural traditions then her family would need to pay me dowry. Initially she was adamant her family wouldn't pay but after a while she saw I wasn't budging so caved.

[TommoPhysicist]

I feel that my daughter has become so head-over-heels with this Thai guy is that she has has lost her sense of clear judgement. My daughter is planning an engagement ceremony for early next year and then a marriage ceremony sometime later. What do posters think? Should all the family discussions take place before the engagement ceremony or should I wait until the marriage ceremony is announced?

I think no money from you. Let his parents pay ....... or not.

If they really do love each other, why not settle with no traditions at all from either side.

Amphur office wedding for 30bht, no engagement, no party, no presents.

Edited November 26, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Billmont]

I think many are missing the point here especially those calling Sin Sod BS. Basically these are two Thai families, OK so the daughter in question is Eurasian but this is no disgrace, most Movie Stars are Eurasian and greatly respected. A lot of so called HI-So Thais have cosmetic surgery to appear more "Farang". A western style wedding is to me not an option. I would think both are Buddhists and it would be like asking a western couple to get married in a Hindu Temple because their Christian parents cannot agree on the Wedding plans. Thai tradition still calls for a Sin Sod and while it may be returned or used to help the young couple in cases where the parents are reasonably well off, many Thai parents need this and the "envelopes" to pay for the wedding party. However the most inportant part of Sin Sod is respect to the brides family and to the bride herself by way of gold. In the UK an engagement ring and honeymoon would be the equilivent cost and nobodys blinks an eye about this as it is "Tradition" although wrapped up differently. Here there is a lack of respect for whatever reason. Perhaps the Thai family really wants their son to marry an equally Hi-So rich, wealthy, well connected Thai family or whatever social standing they consider themselves to be in and may consider that he is marrying beneath himself and while they are not going to object to the marriage but are not going to support/encourage it in any way. Whatever the reason is does not look good for their future and while the daughter may really love this young man she will live to regret her decision and maybe discarded Bahtless in the not too distant future with the boys parents probably saying that their son made a mistake but that is all rectified now. I sincerely hope that I am wrong but money speaks all over the world but more so here in Thailand

[Billmont]

I feel that my daughter has become so head-over-heels with this Thai guy is that she has has lost her sense of clear judgement. My daughter is planning an engagement ceremony for early next year and then a marriage ceremony sometime later. What do posters think? Should all the family discussions take place before the engagement ceremony or should I wait until the marriage ceremony is announced?

I think no money from you. Let his parents pay ....... or not.

If they really do love each other, why not settle with no traditions at all from either side.

Amphur office wedding for 30bht, no engagement, no party, no presents.

....and live on what? It looks as if the boy is dependant of support from his wealthy parents and perhaps is unable/unwilling to support his wife from his own efforts.

[thewug]

I also feel for your situation... I myself have a one year old daughter and see the dificulties that she will have in her life being half thai and half farang... But i think the only words now i can say to you is what i can say about my Daughter.." I always be there to pick you up if you fall down" ...I wish you all the luck in the world friend....

Michael

I'm sure calling your daughter a farang doesnt help, makes me question her self image, contributing to problems like the op

shame on you

Sent from my GT-S5660 using Thaivisa Connect App

As i hope you might not have read what i said was ' being half thai and half farang" And thats what she is in this country... And i don't take any shame in it at all... She will grow up with two loving parents that will teach her the importance of her two cultures...

I myself don't like how easy the word Farang is used. But I know who and what I am and can accept that thats what Thai people see me and my daughter as...

Now If you want to start a topic on the word Farang, send me a link and i would be glad to particpate in it... Otherwise yets just try and give this guy some ideas about how he and his wife can feel better about his daugher getting married...

OK....

[robblok]

You're a Westerner.... The concensus on TV.com is that Sin-Sod is an antiquated tradition much in the way the dowry was in the West. You can use this not to tollerate other cultural differences that appear to be nothing more than silliness and superstitious belief.

That said, I paid Sin Sod to maintain respect for my inlaws. It was returned.

I suppose the best situation would have been them offering you Sin-Sod and you suggesting that it wasn't necessary, if they wished to maintain the pretence of tradition it would be returned. After all, you don't really want their money, do you?

Your future Son In Law and his family could have handled this much better but IMO your only play was to be distant and cool and have your daughters Boy Friend and Father over to request your Daughters hand.

Of course, if they don't want to follow the Thai Tradition you can now suggest they Marry in a Western Style ceremony.

I would never consider a sins sod, did not pay it. Why farangs pay it or want it is crazy. But up to them. The traditional sin sod that comes back is ok. But just buying a girl is crazy.

But in the end id say its your daughter who should have a say in it as it is her happiness.

[Kilgore Trout]

I also feel for your situation... I myself have a one year old daughter and see the dificulties that she will have in her life being half thai and half farang... But i think the only words now i can say to you is what i can say about my Daughter.." I always be there to pick you up if you fall down" ...I wish you all the luck in the world friend....

Michael

I'm sure calling your daughter a farang doesnt help, makes me question her self image, contributing to problems like the op

shame on you

Sent from my GT-S5660 using Thaivisa Connect App

As i hope you might not have read what i said was ' being half thai and half farang" And thats what she is in this country... And i don't take any shame in it at all... She will grow up with two loving parents that will teach her the importance of her two cultures...

I myself don't like how easy the word Farang is used. But I know who and what I am and can accept that thats what Thai people see me and my daughter as...

Now If you want to start a topic on the word Farang, send me a link and i would be glad to particpate in it... Otherwise yets just try and give this guy some ideas about how he and his wife can feel better about his daugher getting married...

OK....

Agreed, you seem like a reasonable person. However, I would think the family would be the first place to insist on not being referred to as a "farang." I certainly hope your's doesn't refer to your daughter that way. It disturbs me a bit that you bring your daughter up to accept that she is half "farang" as you put it.

Thai is a nationality, "farang" is made up nonsense.

[Humbugged]

I also feel for your situation... I myself have a one year old daughter and see the dificulties that she will have in her life being half thai and half farang... But i think the only words now i can say to you is what i can say about my Daughter.." I always be there to pick you up if you fall down" ...I wish you all the luck in the world friend....

Michael

I'm sure calling your daughter a farang doesnt help, makes me question her self image, contributing to problems like the op

shame on you

Sent from my GT-S5660 using Thaivisa Connect App

As i hope you might not have read what i said was ' being half thai and half farang" And thats what she is in this country... And i don't take any shame in it at all... She will grow up with two loving parents that will teach her the importance of her two cultures...

I myself don't like how easy the word Farang is used. But I know who and what I am and can accept that thats what Thai people see me and my daughter as...

Now If you want to start a topic on the word Farang, send me a link and i would be glad to particpate in it... Otherwise yets just try and give this guy some ideas about how he and his wife can feel better about his daugher getting married...

OK....

Agreed, you seem like a reasonable person. However, I would think the family would be the first place to insist on not being referred to as a "farang." I certainly hope your's doesn't refer to your daughter that way. It disturbs me a bit that you bring your daughter up to accept that she is half "farang" as you put it.

Thai is a nationality, "farang" is made up nonsense.

Really...get over it, if farang upsets you so much then you must have a hell of a time here with everything else.

The word farang alone is nothing, it is the additional words they add to it which then make it a variable put down.

[Jayman]

You're a Westerner.... The concensus on TV.com is that Sin-Sod is an antiquated tradition much in the way the dowry was in the West. You can use this not to tollerate other cultural differences that appear to be nothing more than silliness and superstitious belief.

That said, I paid Sin Sod to maintain respect for my inlaws. It was returned.

I suppose the best situation would have been them offering you Sin-Sod and you suggesting that it wasn't necessary, if they wished to maintain the pretence of tradition it would be returned. After all, you don't really want their money, do you?

Your future Son In Law and his family could have handled this much better but IMO your only play was to be distant and cool and have your daughters Boy Friend and Father over to request your Daughters hand.

Of course, if they don't want to follow the Thai Tradition you can now suggest they Marry in a Western Style ceremony.

I would never consider a sins sod, did not pay it. Why farangs pay it or want it is crazy. But up to them. The traditional sin sod that comes back is ok. But just buying a girl is crazy.

But in the end id say its your daughter who should have a say in it as it is her happiness.

And how much did you spend on the engagement ring you gave her?

[Neeranam]

Firstly, you must realize what many Thais think of the typical Thai/foreigner relationship.

Secondly, you must arrange to meet the parents and discuss the wedding/sin sot. If they refuse, then that act says it all - absolutely no respect, for whatever reason. If this happens, then forbid the wedding if you can, and put up no money yourself.

[robblok]

You're a Westerner.... The concensus on TV.com is that Sin-Sod is an antiquated tradition much in the way the dowry was in the West. You can use this not to tollerate other cultural differences that appear to be nothing more than silliness and superstitious belief.

That said, I paid Sin Sod to maintain respect for my inlaws. It was returned.

I suppose the best situation would have been them offering you Sin-Sod and you suggesting that it wasn't necessary, if they wished to maintain the pretence of tradition it would be returned. After all, you don't really want their money, do you?

Your future Son In Law and his family could have handled this much better but IMO your only play was to be distant and cool and have your daughters Boy Friend and Father over to request your Daughters hand.

Of course, if they don't want to follow the Thai Tradition you can now suggest they Marry in a Western Style ceremony.

I would never consider a sins sod, did not pay it. Why farangs pay it or want it is crazy. But up to them. The traditional sin sod that comes back is ok. But just buying a girl is crazy.

But in the end id say its your daughter who should have a say in it as it is her happiness.

And how much did you spend on the engagement ring you gave her?

I did not spend money on that at all. Call me cheap but i know plenty of Thais who did not do sin sod either. We spend the money on other things.

[Jayman]

You're a Westerner.... The concensus on TV.com is that Sin-Sod is an antiquated tradition much in the way the dowry was in the West. You can use this not to tollerate other cultural differences that appear to be nothing more than silliness and superstitious belief.

That said, I paid Sin Sod to maintain respect for my inlaws. It was returned.

I suppose the best situation would have been them offering you Sin-Sod and you suggesting that it wasn't necessary, if they wished to maintain the pretence of tradition it would be returned. After all, you don't really want their money, do you?

Your future Son In Law and his family could have handled this much better but IMO your only play was to be distant and cool and have your daughters Boy Friend and Father over to request your Daughters hand.

Of course, if they don't want to follow the Thai Tradition you can now suggest they Marry in a Western Style ceremony.

I would never consider a sins sod, did not pay it. Why farangs pay it or want it is crazy. But up to them. The traditional sin sod that comes back is ok. But just buying a girl is crazy.

But in the end id say its your daughter who should have a say in it as it is her happiness.

And how much did you spend on the engagement ring you gave her?

I did not spend money on that at all. Call me cheap but i know plenty of Thais who did not do sin sod either. We spend the money on other things.

Ohh so you are Thai? Or are you just trying to play both sides the coin to your advantage of not offering anything in terms of tradition to your wife (either her tradition or yours).

What a "catch" you must be.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Jayman

[robblok]

I would never consider a sins sod, did not pay it. Why farangs pay it or want it is crazy. But up to them. The traditional sin sod that comes back is ok. But just buying a girl is crazy.

But in the end id say its your daughter who should have a say in it as it is her happiness.

And how much did you spend on the engagement ring you gave her?

I did not spend money on that at all. Call me cheap but i know plenty of Thais who did not do sin sod either. We spend the money on other things.

Ohh so you are Thai? Or are you just trying to play both sides the coin to your advantage of not offering anything in terms of tradition to your wife (either her tradition or yours).

What a "catch" you must be.

Your a fun guy, some guys just got the looks to get the girls. They don't need to pay them to stay with them.

I am one of those guys that does not need money to impress girls, im also one of the guys that does not feel the need to keep up with the Joneses.

I have nothing against the original sin sod where its given back. I only have something against the other kind where its payment for the girl usually done by bar girls and so on.

Im sure your a great "catch" till your money runs out.

But i do agree with the others that if the parents of the guy don't respect them its a bad sign. I just don't agree that sin sod is the only sign of respect. There are other ways to show respect, paying money is not IMHO

[rgs2001uk]

You're a Westerner.... The concensus on TV.com is that Sin-Sod is an antiquated tradition much in the way the dowry was in the West. You can use this not to tollerate other cultural differences that appear to be nothing more than silliness and superstitious belief.

That said, I paid Sin Sod to maintain respect for my inlaws. It was returned.

I suppose the best situation would have been them offering you Sin-Sod and you suggesting that it wasn't necessary, if they wished to maintain the pretence of tradition it would be returned. After all, you don't really want their money, do you?

Your future Son In Law and his family could have handled this much better but IMO your only play was to be distant and cool and have your daughters Boy Friend and Father over to request your Daughters hand.

Of course, if they don't want to follow the Thai Tradition you can now suggest they Marry in a Western Style ceremony.

I would never consider a sins sod, did not pay it. Why farangs pay it or want it is crazy. But up to them. The traditional sin sod that comes back is ok. But just buying a girl is crazy.

But in the end id say its your daughter who should have a say in it as it is her happiness.

And how much did you spend on the engagement ring you gave her?

Apart form Thai HiSo wanna copy farangs, and upcountry LoSo lets tell the buffalo its Thai culture, I have never met a Thai who has bought an engagement ring.

I paid no sin sot, didnt buy an engagement ring, dont give the wife money to stay with me every month, dont give a red satang to to the family every month (never been asked to).

I appreciate others may not be in the same boat. YMMV.

Engagement ring my ass, wait 'till I talk to the Thai lads from Surin tomorrow, I can just imagine the conversation, oooiii farang ba.