Daughter Getting Married,his Family Won't Pay Sin Sod

[Kilgore Trout]

I would think its 2012 if my daughter is happy then so would I be, but i am a farnag and have a farang traditions and money would never come into my daughters happiness. If your a farang i am suprised you are looking for sin sod money. i had a tradional English registery office wedding, family not invited, how ever later in life they got the new house, car, son in private school etc.

If she ups and offs or if he ups and offs then you only have yourself to blame IMHO

Please tell, what are these "farang" traditions, farnag? The Roman tradition of studying pig entrails to determine the best time to marry? Or perhaps not marrying on a Saturday as English folklore dictates? The Swedish tradition of putting coins in shoes? I could go on all day.

I take pride in my culture and traditions, so don't dump on them by lumping me in with every white person on the planet

[thewug]

I would think its 2012 if my daughter is happy then so would I be, but i am a farnag and have a farang traditions and money would never come into my daughters happiness. If your a farang i am suprised you are looking for sin sod money. i had a tradional English registery office wedding, family not invited, how ever later in life they got the new house, car, son in private school etc.

If she ups and offs or if he ups and offs then you only have yourself to blame IMHO

What you fail to see is that the Daughter has a mother who is Thai... And it might be in her tradition about sinsod....

[wellred]

Tell her you will accept no sinsod if they abide by the ancient farang tradition of bending over bare bottomed at which point they both plant a kiss on either of your buttocks cheeks. The event should be witnessed by all the family too. Guarantee they will all back away from the sin sod and if they doubt you tell em it's how it's done in farang land.

[robblok]

I would think its 2012 if my daughter is happy then so would I be, but i am a farnag and have a farang traditions and money would never come into my daughters happiness. If your a farang i am suprised you are looking for sin sod money. i had a tradional English registery office wedding, family not invited, how ever later in life they got the new house, car, son in private school etc.

If she ups and offs or if he ups and offs then you only have yourself to blame IMHO

What you fail to see is that the Daughter has a mother who is Thai... And it might be in her tradition about sinsod....

She has also a father who is farang why is it that Thainess seems to take precedence. When the mother got married to the farang she should have known she would have to adapt same as he.

Besides the OP never made clear what kind of sin sod it would be, the one that would be given back (or used to pay for house or car for the couple or wedding) . Or the one (fake) that is pocketed by the OP or his wife.

I think for every parent the happiness of the child should go first and the last thing the OP stated about making sure the guy worked and could provide in this way is much more important than the sin sod. That seems to be all about face to the parents.

Even among Thais sin sod is not always done, i would be more worried about the attitude of the other parents. If they are also negative about other things then it does not look good. But again, the happiness of the daughter is the most important.

[bangkokburning]

Only end in heartache. All of you are making poor decision and remember shes spoiled goods once married. Ironic the Thais dont want to pay ss no? More importantly, family has zero respect as not even discussed ehat might be presented for show. Really no respect there for you both but even more the daughter.

Prenup not going to matter, the family will hold his money and dole it to him. They will be btoke all the time, she will put up her wages for the house. She will have to work. Just the nature of this guy "dj". Heaven help her if she makes it to 35 with him. She could still be a stunner but he will be in the clubs. After all he is a dj...

[sirchai]

As somebody had already mentioned, let your daughter read all these posts. Would you be Thai, there wouldn't be a problem. I'd really tell him to < Snip! > off.

Should be in the boy's interest that his family's respecting you, doesn't really matter that you're a foreigner.You should never discuss that in a phone call.

What's more important, does your daughter really love this guy? Good luck!

[Paul888]

I have daughters and whilst I agree that ensuring that any future husband would be able to support my daughter is important, I would not involve myself directly in discussions of sinsod to the level that the OP has as the prospect of paying sinsod to a non Thai would not I imagine be that appealing to the average Thai mindset.

Why don't you step back and let your wife and daughter discuss it with the family if THEY feel strong enough about it?

[Humbugged]

I have daughters and whilst I agree that ensuring that any future husband would be able to support my daughter is important, I would not involve myself directly in discussions of sinsod to the level that the OP has as the prospect of paying sinsod to a non Thai would not I imagine be that appealing to the average Thai mindset.

Why don't you step back and let your wife and daughter discuss it with the family if THEY feel strong enough about it?

What a croc....how many of them half half super stars...or even non super stars get married and the sinsot is dealt with and shown off for the paparazzi.

[jvs]

Op , it is very hard for us who did not grow up in Thailand and therefore do not understand the culture and the underlying reasons for things being the way they are.A few posters are trying to tell you what to do and why but they are not at all qualified to have an opinion in these matters.Why honor Thai traditions?,maybe because we are in Thailand?I believe in different parts of Thailand there are different rules.

A big part of Thai culture is the children can not go against the wishes of the parents(family)

A girl once told me she could not ever be happy if she knew her parents were unhappy.

Times are changing also in this country but traditions give a people and a nation pride and it will take a long time and a lot of goodwill for these two families to see eye to eye.

Respect has to been shown from both parties in order to work things out.

How to go about it i have no idea but i wish the op and his family the wisdom to make the right decision

[harryfrompattaya]

I find the boy's familys' attitude very disturbing, in my eyes this gesture signifies that they don't believe your daughter is good enough for them or worse that the boy and family don't see this as a serious marriage prospect. If the roles were reversed i'm sure they would be hitting you for millions. I'm sure if you came from a similar family with stature in Thailand there would be some excessive demonstration of love and devotion in the form of lavish gifts and a 9999999999 baht sinsod.

Even though you probably don't want the money for yourselves, let them buy your daughter jewelry or some sort of acknowledgement of her worth to the groom and family.

As I have no knowledge of their relationship or the merits of the boy, I would suggest you talk to your daughter as an insulting gesture such as this so early in the courtship may be an indication of the mental or even physical abuse she may be subject to later from the family and the boy. Prince Charming may turn out to be a total asshol_e.

BTW who is expected to pay for the wedding?

This normal Farang pays Sin Sod does not collect. I bet you speak Thai. I am sorry you do not understand Thais

Simple you Just Pay and be Happy

[BEVUP]

Have to congratulate Ackybang

Hit the nail right on the head

& yes he seems like a sponge just waiting for the day it falls in his lap

Even though we are farangs with children to thai wwomen the child is thai & customs should be followed ( in this case )

For richer or poorer & better & worst

Yes Sin Sod is a very big thing at weddings as i found out so they dont lose face in disrespect

I told my wife i would not be paying as i had given the family enough money already & had not paid back so i threw the burden back onto them to come up with it

& guess what They didnt

So on the 11 th hr they told me ( was just waiting for that moment as i new it would happen ) after watching all of them running around for a week prior SO i had to put up the money (luckily i had it in the bank at that moment )

But it was only for show to be returned as i mentioned before the family can clear the debt that way

Then the wife says mum said ok she doent want so i replied she wasnt taking the cash its coming from loaned monies

[Jawnie]

This is the perfect solution...bravo.

Often it seems we, as farangs, are asked to be very flexible and to respect and follow Thai customs - this is correct as as it should be. But, in this case, ie, relationships, there are two cultures and each needs to be dealt with as equally valid and worthwhile. You chose the correct way to deal with the guy which was simply to tell him to "get a job." Any and all American fathers would expect this of their daughter's fiancee and there is no reason to forego it just because you are in Thailand. Again, I say BRAVO!

[ricku]

Well, this is great news! I've always been strongly against the ridiculous "marriage for money". I.m.o, it is a sick tradition that should just die out and vanish. I swear, every time I'm at a thai wedding and I see the sin sod-basket, I almost throw up inside.

Besides my personal opinion; I know that many thais (especially modern people) are no longer following this tradition.. Just a wild guess: Perhaps the BF and his family is too modern and open minded for this kind of old crazyness.

If you are afraid of the typical "loss of face", then suggest to your daughter and her BF that they go for a western style wedding. No pay off required.

"Money for love? No money, no honey?" I'm sorry, but such things belongs at the whorehouse + gogo bars.

This whole sin sod business honestly comes across as yet another example of Thai obsession with money and materialistic things.

My thoughts exactly.

[rct99q]

Sorry for not reading all the replies so if this has been added ...delete.

From your story you do not seem to know the future son-in-law very well (my assumption). If so, why? Does he come visit. Could you ask him point blank why they are avoiding this issue. How well do you really know this boy? For me it would not be about the money but how well my daughter is going to be treated.

It may also be that you don't know your daughter as well as you think. She may be looking at him as the get out of working for the rest of my life card! I am not judging I am just saying.

But be careful.

[Pormax]

Well, this is great news! I've always been strongly against the ridiculous "marriage for money". I.m.o, it is a sick tradition that should just die out and vanish. I swear, every time I'm at a thai wedding and I see the sin sod-basket, I almost throw up inside.

Besides my personal opinion; I know that many thais (especially modern people) are no longer following this tradition.. Just a wild guess: Perhaps the BF and his family is too modern and open minded for this kind of old crazyness.

If you are afraid of the typical "loss of face", then suggest to your daughter and her BF that they go for a western style wedding. No pay off required.

"Money for love? No money, no honey?" I'm sorry, but such things belongs at the whorehouse + gogo bars.

This whole sin sod business honestly comes across as yet another example of Thai obsession with money and materialistic things.

My thoughts exactly.

Every country has it's traditions and whether you like it or not I believe Sin-Sod will be around in Thailand for many more years specially in the rural parts where tradition is hard to break. I don't think it's just the lower classed citizens as only a few months ago a lady 'Superstar' (my wife's words) got married and the Sin -Sod was, if I remember correctly 5 million Baht and 10 baht gold. Ok the family could easily afford it but it just shows that the Hi-So also pay. This was on the TV news stations so to many Thais, what is good for these people is still good for them.

Secondly in the rural viiages a girl child is looked upon similar to the buffalo. Bring them up then marry them off (not the buffalo) and get some money. The son meanwhile will cost you money when he gets married as there is a good chance he will not have the money to pay the sin-sod himself.

I am not saying the tradition of Sin-Sod is right or wrong. Everyone has their own opinion. I paid sinsod.

The problem is when the girl's parents get too greedy, thankfully that was not a problem in my situation.

Maybe this boy's father is to tight to let some of his money go to a family he believes are well below his Thai status.

In Cyprus up until a few years ago, the parents of the bride was expected to build or supply a house. That is part of the reason (the other is a tax loophole) why many houses had a flat roof with iron rods from the pillars still clearly showing. When needed the daughter's house was built on top of the parent's house. Still happens now, but not so common.

A western style marraige with all the frills!! I would rather stick to the sin-sod if I was the father of the bride. In UK the parents of the bride are expected to pay for all the wedding (unless the boy's parents offer to help). When my daughter got married 16 years ago it cost me 12,000 Pounds and I did not pay for the evening disco and buffett.

Thankfully my other daughter went on holiday with boyfriend to Australia and came back married. So I saved a load of money.

Traditions might change over the years but in Thailand I think decades not years before Sin -Sod disappears.

I am sure there are many other countries with their own marraige arrangements that might seem strange to us

but when living in Thailand, while one does not have to go along with their customs if thats the way you prefer it, we should at least respect their traditions.

Be very boring if in the whole, everything was the same

[beautifulthailand99]

I think part of the problem that westerns have about Sinsod is the fact that Thai ask for to much money... They don't return the money.... They not use it for the married couple... And or they want more everymonth on top of the sinsod... See, Thais have this illusion that we have so much money and that if we have enough to come here we have enough to give to them... But i don't disagree with Thai tradision of sinsod because its a tradition for them... And its out of respect to the brides family... But they also need to understand that we aren't as rich as they think...

Particuarly since sterling took a nose dive a few years back .....

[luckyluke]

Interesting :

http://thethailandlife.com/sin-sod

[Berkshire]

Interesting :

http://thethailandlife.com/sin-sod

Pretty good piece, well-balanced.

[BookMan]

Interesting :

http://thethailandlife.com/sin-sod

Pretty good piece, well-balanced.

The comments section is worth a read

[Shenta]

Well said, nice post, but for those like me in Thailand for 10+ years, I would assume the truth is not so hard to see...

You are a decent person, who is western but accepted Thai culture.

your daughter is raised in Thai education system and blended into their society, she is probably very beautiful.

The boy with rich back ground charms her with his family’s money, but can't do a thing other than parties...

When the boy's parent ask the boy if he really want to get married, he do as most .... would do, "silent"

So the boy's parent won't bother to make any trouble nor take things too seriously.

And usual trick that we see in TV and real world is the girl will say she is pregnant and see what the boy will do...

after that all is drama...

I believe your words, and I believe u must have a very beautiful and decent minded daughter,

but... again... welcome to Thailand.

[charlieboz]

To the OP can you tell me what the end result of this was? I found it really interesting to see from the other point of view for a change

[Prakanom]

This is my first post here... and I would like to give you my personal advice.

I lived in Thailand for a few years, i'm in my mid twenties and I receive an allowance that would be the equivalent of approximately 100,000 THB per month from my parents. My parents are not billionaires or extreme millionaires, but I do think they are wealthier than the average European family.

If this guy is not willing to work, start up a business, or do whatever he can just to "make himself look like he is doing something", then he definitely isn't ready to get married. The marriage will probably lead to divorce because this guy has too much free time on his hands and chances are high he will eventually cheat on her, not only because he is wealthy, young and not working, but because he is Thai and there are plenty of middle-class Thai women around who recognize these sort of guys immediately and wouldn't hesitate to jump in bed with him causing his marriage to end.

Even though I get money from my parents - I did start up a small business because I feel like I need to do something with my life, i'm not highly educated, in fact I only finished high school and never continued my studies, although I don't need to work, probably for the rest of my life, I feel like I need to do something because doing nothing would make me feel worthless... and I did this out of my own, not because anyone pushed me to do so. I can tell you that if he isn't willing to do something instead of cashing in his parents money... then he definitely isn't ready to get married and start a family yet.

[Prakanom]

If you told him to go and find a job before getting married, and he replied to you "but my family is wealthy, I don't need to work" then I would strongly advise against him marrying your daughter for now. I would feel ashamed saying that to someone. This statement shows how lazy and immature he is about life. In my case, my girlfriend doesn't even know about me receiving money from my parents, and I would feel ashamed if she knew about it.

[oliver80]

Sorry to change the mood here

Sinsod is an old past tradition, you have to accept the mdern times now, I agree with his father not to pay fully. I am a farang and married hogh class Thai and live here 12 years.

Sinsod is for Isaan people, no tuk tuk, cow and Isuzu, really wake up and let lve rule.