Thai Police Fire Tear Gas At Political Protest

[ttelise]

On ASTV was shown a new tear gas attack (at least I understood so), and showing old women and old men suffering badly from the tear gas. Surely not people that would be able to brake the barricades. One unconscious.

If tear gas is justified can be discussed but there is no question the use way too much.

On the news they say five policemen have been injured including two seriously. The police also confiscated knife and bullets (guns ?) from protesters they have arrested. There's no question that the use of teargas was totally justified.

Or they are making the charges of knives and guns found to justify the clampdown.

Or are you so credulous as to actually believe Thai police never plant weapons to justify their actions?

I would change one word in your post credulou. I would have said mindless.

Speaking of mindless did you see the one poster who said the protesters were thugs who had brought wire cutters. He forgot to mention the wire cutters were to cut through barbed wire brought by the police to keep people out of a peaceful protest.

This is not news It was obvious for days that the government was not going to allow a peaceful protest. It would make them look bad.

Thailand is in sad shape when a Government has to start spreading rumors that it's Prime Minister is in danger of being kidnapped and a former Prime Minister can not even visit a city in a foreign country for fear of assassination.

Haha, can someone really be that delusional. Wow.

Too funny, the comment about police bringing barb wire because they were not going to allow a peaceful protest is amazing. The thugs really did not have to cut through the barb wire and aggressively attempt to overrun the cop's position just because the barb wire was there.

Difficult concept, but the thugs could have actually remained in the designated area on their side of the barb wire and still peacefully protested even though barb wire was present.

The old barb wire made me do it plea.

[Lormaak]

This is reported to be a photo of the seized weapons that were on their way to the protest site. Apparently belonging to a guy from Saraburi.

This is apparently a photo showing a seriously injured police officer.

Both of these can be seen here: http://www.go6tv.com/. This site was mentioned earlier.

[Cnxforever]

Fascism, pure fascism.

When the police disperse protesters it is fascism and when the army disperses the democratically elected government (again) what is that called?

Interesting question, the police have never done their duty before, so it's new to everyone.

the police dispersing protestors have nothing to do with fascism. Let me tell you how it works if you plan to stage / organize a rally - but first of all you might be a bit confused - the fascists are actually on the other side in this - enlighten yourself and read Mr. Boonlert's and his friends history!

Policeman are there not because they want to be in the line of fire - or hurt anybody they are there to enforce the law!

So here is how it works in almost any country in the world:

you apply for a permit to hold the rally - which will be granted or not - in most countries - if you should be stupid enough as Mr. Boonlert stating beforhand that you favor a military coup to the current elected government - and obviously the rally has the purpose to incite unrest - and try to remove a democraticly elected government by undemocratic means - you will not get a permit for your demonstration - you will be arrested and charged because then you are a danger to society.

Should you receive a permit to stage your rally - there are certain rules to be followed regarding protest sites / routes / time to protect the rest of the population which is not taking part in the protest. The police are in charge of enforcing these rules and the law.

If you break these rules by venturing outside the permited protest site change the route to a non permitted one or try to break through police baricades, give hate speaches or suggest the elected government should be removed by undemoratic means -then you have to face the consequences!

and thats about it ....very simple really!

Edited November 24, 2012 by Cnxforever

[McMagus]

get over it guys .. it's not even your <Snip!> country....

Let me ask you a question McMagus:

If you were in your home country and you met a Thai person who had been living in your country for twenty years, working there (legally), and married with a native of your country and with kids, and the Thai person, speaking in your home language, expressed to you an opinion about local politics, would you laugh in that person's face and tell them that it wasn't their <Snip!> country?

Interesting point .... I expect that the vast majority of posters here are not in the same position as you. I assume you have residency, a Thai passport and are able to vote in Thai general elections. If not I would suggest that this is not your country, it is however your country of residence; a subtle difference. I was born in Scotland but became a naturalised Australian citizen by choice therefore I count myself as Australian. I am ignorant of the Thai law but I am assuming you are the equivalent of a naturalised Thai citizen...if so then this indeed is your country and I would hope that you have exercised your voting rights and my comment would not apply to you. To any other expats who are not Thai citizens I would stand by my post. Thailand for Thais; it is their path to tread. If you go back to my earlier post you will see that I do blame the Thais completely for the position they are in now and I would stand by that post.

[asiawatcher]

Confrontation at Makkawan Rangsan Bridge continues

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Some 500 protesters still confronted police at the Makkawan Rangsan Bridge at 10:40 am Saturday, trying to break through the police barricades to join the rally at the Royal Plaza.

Police used a sound truck to urge the protesters to make a detour to join the rally site via either the road in front of Benjama Bophit Temple or in front of the First Infantry Division.

Gen Kittisak Ratprasert, a protest leader tried to lead the protesters to the direction of the temple, but some of the demonstrators insisted they would march straight on through the police lines.

-- The Nation 2012-11- 24

Quoting this, because its very relevant. The police aren't preventing them from getting to the protest site, merely blocking one particular route.

Quite clear that there are elements in the crowd determined to cause trouble. Important to understand that not only have they refused the Police request to use the designated entry points, but they have also defied their own "leader", making it clear that they have no interest in actually joining the rally, but merely want a violent punch-up with the Police. Maybe Chalerm knew what he was talking about with the "third hand".

More likely it was Chalerms connections that are the cause of the trouble trying to bring down the intent of the organisers. A few appropriately 'placed' dissidents does not mean they were part of the real protest group and Chalerm has been vomiting warnings about this, probably to try to protect his ass when he knew what was about to happen to allay suspicion from himself.

[rixalex]

Who cares about 2010. This is 2012. I don't care who is in power. I just think whoever was elected should be power and these childish protest every two years to overthrow government is a bad idea that needs to stop before it gets really messy.

The people who need persuading of what you say are not the people here, but the people down at the protest site, and my point was, if the people down at the protest site know that those people telling them: she is PM, go home and wait for elections, are the same people who in 2010 were saying; he is PM, but we don't like the way he became PM, don't go home and don't wait for elections, stay on the streets of Bangkok, cause mayhem and get him kicked out, well then they might be inclined to ignore what they are being told on the basis of complete hypocrisy.

Telling people to do something you didn't do yourself is always going to be tricky. That's the problem the current government now faces.

Huh? Do you really think this way? <flaming snipped>

Do i really think that people who have spent the last two years defending the mayhem and violence that Thaksin and the red shirts orchestrated on the streets of Bangkok in 2009 and 2010, now look very silly appealing for everyone to just follow the democratic process and wait for elections? Yes i do. Not that i don't agree with them. I do. Just i don't think it coming from them carries much credibility. What is it about any of that that makes you think i might need psychotherapy or a priest?

[MAJIC]

It will be interesting to compare how this govt deals with protests vs how Abhisit dealt with the 2010 shindig.

The Police did nothing for Abhisit,just stood around letting the Red Shirts take over Bangkok. Big difference when they actually do their job!

I remember pro-Abhisit posters saying that his one and only mistake in the build up to the violence of 2010 was letting the protest go on for too long. That it was by Abhisit's own tolerant approach that the police 'just stood around letting the Red Shirts take over Bangkok'. Now that this government is trying to avoid the same mistake and avert an escalation, we are told by the same posters the action is unacceptable. Strange.

You don't get it,the Police did not lift a finger against the law breaking Red Shirts in 2010,because they are supporters of the Red Shirts,run by ex police pals of Thaksin.In this case the Police have no qualms in suppressing opposition to the Reds.

[crazykopite]

Just saw it on BBC world news " Amazing Thailand " just in time for the high season can only think this has got something to do with the opposition we will be still seeing this type of unrest in 20 years how much were they paid to demonstrate 500 baht. Thailand is becoming the laughing stock of the world how some of these idiots made General in the army is a MIRACLE !!!!!!!!!!!!

[catmac]

Another thread full of the same suspects trying to justify everything with the argument ' but the reds................'.

We even have one saying the police plant guns so I guess with that logic the army could have done the same, or inserted men in black etc etc etc ad nauseum.

The fact is that today there is a violent faction, pitak Siam are trying to force a coup so this was always going to be violent, why do you think he is squealing already for army protection?

None are so blind as those that refuse to see the truth.

No need to put yourself down, Pimay1, remember , you are not alone!

[JurgenG]

She is PM. She won. Everyone needs to get over that and move on.

You can go down to the protest site and tell everyone that, but the problem might be that they will accuse you in 2010 of having said something quite different with regards Abhisit.

Who cares about 2010. This is 2012. I don't care who is in power. I just think whoever was elected should be power and these childish protest every two years to overthrow government is a bad idea that needs to stop before it gets really messy.

The people who need persuading of what you say are not the people here, but the people down at the protest site, and my point was, if the people down at the protest site know that those people telling them: she is PM, go home and wait for elections, are the same people who in 2010 were saying; he is PM, but we don't like the way he became PM, don't go home and don't wait for elections, stay on the streets of Bangkok, cause mayhem and get him kicked out, well then they might be inclined to ignore what they are being told on the basis of complete hypocrisy.

Telling people to do something you didn't do yourself is always going to be tricky. That's the problem the current government now faces.

The big difference is in 2010 they were calling for free and fair elections, that they got and won fair and square on July 3rd 2011.

Today they call for a military coup.

And Thai people in their large majority did actually understand the difference, that's why so few of them showed up today.

[ianf]

Off course we expected this kind of response. Firstly, Yingluck's lot created a climate of fear in order to keep protesters away. Secondly they simply waded in attacked in order to reinforce their own position with the red shirts (see how tough we are brothers?). I used to think that we were on the way to civil war. Methinks not. I think we are on the way to total fascist control. Perhaps my only prediction is that the economy will collapse under Yingluck's (sorry, Thaksin's) guidance, say within 24 months. Hey ho!

[ianf]

Fascism, pure fascism.

When the police disperse protesters it is fascism and when the army disperses the democratically elected government (again) what is that called?

Interesting question, the police have never done their duty before, so it's new to everyone.

the police dispersing protestors have nothing to do with fascism. Let me tell you how it works if you plan to stage / organize a rally - but first of all you might be a bit confused - the fascists are actually on the other side in this - enlighten yourself and read Mr. Boonlert's and his friends history!

Policeman are there not because they want to be in the line of fire - or hurt anybody they are there to enforce the law!

So here is how it works in almost any country in the world:

you apply for a permit to hold the rally - which will be granted or not - in most countries - if you should be stupid enough as Mr. Boonlert stating beforhand that you favor a military coup to the current elected government - and obviously the rally has the purpose to incite unrest - and try to remove a democraticly elected government by undemocratic means - you will not get a permit for your demonstration - you will be arrested and charged because then you are a danger to society.

Should you receive a permit to stage your rally - there are certain rules to be followed regarding protest sites / routes / time to protect the rest of the population which is not taking part in the protest. The police are in charge of enforcing these rules and the law.

If you break these rules by venturing outside the permited protest site change the route to a non permitted one or try to break through police baricades, give hate speaches or suggest the elected government should be removed by undemoratic means -then you have to face the consequences!

and thats about it ....very simple really!

And since when have thailand's police 'enforced the law' as you claim?

[15Peter20]

Is the demo suspended? I thought I just saw someone on stage saying it, but maybe my Thai isn't good enough. ('yok lerk choomnoom')

Edit - looks like it's over for now.

Edited November 24, 2012 by 15Peter20

[rixalex]

get over it guys .. it's not even your <Snip!> country....

Let me ask you a question McMagus:

If you were in your home country and you met a Thai person who had been living in your country for twenty years, working there (legally), and married with a native of your country and with kids, and the Thai person, speaking in your home language, expressed to you an opinion about local politics, would you laugh in that person's face and tell them that it wasn't their <Snip!> country?

Interesting point .... I expect that the vast majority of posters here are not in the same position as you. I assume you have residency, a Thai passport and are able to vote in Thai general elections. If not I would suggest that this is not your country, it is however your country of residence; a subtle difference. I was born in Scotland but became a naturalised Australian citizen by choice therefore I count myself as Australian. I am ignorant of the Thai law but I am assuming you are the equivalent of a naturalised Thai citizen...if so then this indeed is your country and I would hope that you have exercised your voting rights and my comment would not apply to you. To any other expats who are not Thai citizens I would stand by my post. Thailand for Thais; it is their path to tread. If you go back to my earlier post you will see that I do blame the Thais completely for the position they are in now and I would stand by that post.

So what you are saying is, if the Thai person in my hypothetical didn't have a passport or the right to vote, despite having lived, worked and raised a family in your country for twenty years, you would laugh in that person's face and tell them that it wasn't their f****** country and to keep their opinion about local politics to themselves? Really? Seems a bit rude.

In some countries the laws allow immigrants a lot of rights, sometimes even the right to citizenship and the right to vote, in other countries, like here, the laws allow very little. But to me, any immigrant, regardless of what the law says, who has lived, worked and raised a family for 20 years in that country, has a right to an opinion about local politics, and i wouldn't laugh in their face or tell them it wasn't their f******* country if they expressed an opinion to me.

[monkfish]

Rally ends 5:20 pm ??

[lopburi3]

Yes it is over - waiting for rain to end to depart.

[sjjmmi]

1,000,000 coming when bunch of kids all of them so back to the beer then very happy all is ok Rain stops play

Edited November 24, 2012 by sjjmmi

[MrSlatersParrot]

Rally called off

[Pimay1]

Another thread full of the same suspects trying to justify everything with the argument ' but the reds................'.

We even have one saying the police plant guns so I guess with that logic the army could have done the same, or inserted men in black etc etc etc ad nauseum.

The fact is that today there is a violent faction, pitak Siam are trying to force a coup so this was always going to be violent, why do you think he is squealing already for army protection?

None are so blind as those that refuse to see the truth.

No need to put yourself down, Pimay1, remember , you are not alone!

Haha good retort but sorry my friend glass is easily seen through including this bunch of corrupt baffons. Better luck next time.

[15Peter20]

Smart move to stop it by the protest organizers.

[carra]

So CNX gives an insightful post about demonstration and the best someone could come up with is to ask about thaksin, I despair with this forum at times

[catmac]

So as the pitiful small bunch of malcontents shuffle off into the rain, can we now get on with the real job in hand. Time for the senile old fool in charge of Pitak Siam and his henchmen to be brought to trial for treason.

Then maybe we could weed out all those other fosils of the past still lurking in the corridors of power, still playing at being generals, admirals or God knows what.

[ChaiLor]

This comment could be controversial: I actually think that firing tear gas in this way shows how Thai politics has actually moved forward, the last time there was civil unrest who's intention was to force a change of government or a coup was the red shirts in Patumwan, we all saw how that small protest turned out, at the time the government and police didn't know how to manage it, all Thai authorities still remember vividly how protests were crushed brutally in the past and recognize that it was wrong, at Patumwan they were rightly scared of hurting the people but didn't know what else to do, so they sat and watched and allowed things to spiral totally out of control, then of course people got hurt anyway. Using tear gas seems to be the way that more advanced democracies deal with civil unrest, nip it in the bud early, no guns or killing people, just trying to strike the balance between allowing protest and stopping anarchy, if the government is to change then its to change using a democratic process known as an election, not taking over a city, an airport, a coup etc

That would be fine, but as we have seen coups and protests are short cuts to changing the government to get the one you want. The fact is that they have worked. For the people funding the protests getting power is more important than successful democracy.

Yes the people funding the protests or the people in opposition aren't so concerned about changing government by an election, that's because one side cannot win a democratic election and the other side will no longer put up with being governed by a government who have taken power despite having no mandate, the point is, despite many posters saying here we go again etc, Thailand and Thai politics has and is changing, at least in terms of how this protest is being managed, years ago they would of just shot the protesters, more recently they would of just buried their head in the sand and hope the protesters go away, now they have learned that protests can be managed firmly but without having to start shooting people.

Obviously despite this, there's still the divide, how that pans out only time will tell, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Thai politics could move one step forward but then go two steps back...........

[ttelise]

Who cares about 2010. This is 2012. I don't care who is in power. I just think whoever was elected should be power and these childish protest every two years to overthrow government is a bad idea that needs to stop before it gets really messy.

The people who need persuading of what you say are not the people here, but the people down at the protest site, and my point was, if the people down at the protest site know that those people telling them: she is PM, go home and wait for elections, are the same people who in 2010 were saying; he is PM, but we don't like the way he became PM, don't go home and don't wait for elections, stay on the streets of Bangkok, cause mayhem and get him kicked out, well then they might be inclined to ignore what they are being told on the basis of complete hypocrisy.

Telling people to do something you didn't do yourself is always going to be tricky. That's the problem the current government now faces.

Huh? Do you really think this way? <flaming snipped>

Do i really think that people who have spent the last two years defending the mayhem and violence that Thaksin and the red shirts orchestrated on the streets of Bangkok in 2009 and 2010, now look very silly appealing for everyone to just follow the democratic process and wait for elections? Yes i do. Not that i don't agree with them. I do. Just i don't think it coming from them carries much credibility. What is it about any of that that makes you think i might need psychotherapy or a priest?

Haha, no matter the topic you always go back to Thaksin. Complete obsession with Thaksin. You would see Thaksin in a Roshack ink blot.

The sad part is there has many years of political unrest which is unfortunate for everyone in country. You apparently are incapable of acknowledging 2008 PAD episode. 06, 08, 10, and now 2012 are all playing roles in undermining the political process and political stability of your country. Yet you only focus on one man. Your mentality is the problem and not the solution.

[ChaiLor]

Fascism, pure fascism.

When the police disperse protesters it is fascism and when the army disperses the democratically elected government (again) what is that called?

Interesting question, the police have never done their duty before, so it's new to everyone.

the police dispersing protestors have nothing to do with fascism. Let me tell you how it works if you plan to stage / organize a rally - but first of all you might be a bit confused - the fascists are actually on the other side in this - enlighten yourself and read Mr. Boonlert's and his friends history!

Policeman are there not because they want to be in the line of fire - or hurt anybody they are there to enforce the law!

So here is how it works in almost any country in the world:

you apply for a permit to hold the rally - which will be granted or not - in most countries - if you should be stupid enough as Mr. Boonlert stating beforhand that you favor a military coup to the current elected government - and obviously the rally has the purpose to incite unrest - and try to remove a democraticly elected government by undemocratic means - you will not get a permit for your demonstration - you will be arrested and charged because then you are a danger to society.

Should you receive a permit to stage your rally - there are certain rules to be followed regarding protest sites / routes / time to protect the rest of the population which is not taking part in the protest. The police are in charge of enforcing these rules and the law.

If you break these rules by venturing outside the permited protest site change the route to a non permitted one or try to break through police baricades, give hate speaches or suggest the elected government should be removed by undemoratic means -then you have to face the consequences!

and thats about it ....very simple really!

I didn't know it worked like that, very well said!!

[Cnxforever]

Just saw it on BBC world news " Amazing Thailand " just in time for the high season can only think this has got something to do with the opposition we will be still seeing this type of unrest in 20 years how much were they paid to demonstrate 500 baht. Thailand is becoming the laughing stock of the worldhow some of these idiots made General in the army is a MIRACLE !!!!!!!!!!!!

this is what I was thinking about - being myself - and knowing many friends here - who are in tourism or related bussineses - this is another nightmare coming up!

I already received several phone calls and emails from people asking if it is safe to go to Thailand or if the mayhem is starting all over again!

High season is starting and this is where many here have to earn a large part of their income for the rest of the year. Just when things started to get back to normal - and during a time where other countries in the region luring tourists away from Thailand big time - some people who think they own this country and pretend to have the best for the country at heart start to destroy everything.

This ("General" what a joke!) - thug out of uniform should be arrested and tried for treason! But he is of course only the messenger - whoever is behind this should be exposed and held responsible!

[rixalex]

The big difference is in 2010 they were calling for free and fair elections, that they got and won fair and square on July 3rd 2011.

They weren't calling for elections they were demanding them, and the only time you are democratically within your rights to demand an election is when a government is illegal or when a government's term has expired. Abhisit's government wasn't illegal and it's term hadn't expired.

Today they call for a military coup.

And Thai people in their large majority did actually understand the difference, that's why so few of them showed up today.

I don't approve or defend the protests today. My point concerns the hypocrisy of government supporters telling protesters to follow the democratic path and wait for elections when they themselves didn't do that.

[Jim walker]

If they don’t stick to the rule of law the police should arrest them and take them away off the streets, lock them up.

[ChaiLor]

Just saw it on BBC world news " Amazing Thailand " just in time for the high season can only think this has got something to do with the opposition we will be still seeing this type of unrest in 20 years how much were they paid to demonstrate 500 baht. Thailand is becoming the laughing stock of the world how some of these idiots made General in the army is a MIRACLE !!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not a miracle, it's called, cronyism, nepotism and corruption, it happens everywhere, obviously more some places than others

I can't help but like the craziness of it all though!

[Scott]

Off-topic posts have been deleted along with replies.