Demonstrators Told To Confront Police

[Lite Beer]

ANTI-GOVT PROTEST

Demonstrators told to confront police

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation on Sunday

Members of Pitak Siam clash with anti-riot police officers near Government House yesterday. Police used tear gas to repel protesters attempting to break through a roadblock to get to the site of a mass anti-government demonstration.

BANGKOK: --Protesters urged by leaders to move toward police lines

Claiming to be fighting for the monarchy, leaders of the Pitak Siam group twice told protesters to confront a police cordon and to try to break through it yesterday - the second time just before 2pm at the Misakawan Intersection near Government House.

"We're doing this for our King, are we not?" asked a female protest leader through a loudspeaker on top of a truck just a stone's throw from the Misakawan Intersection, where rows of police were standing. Many officers in the front row were wearing gas masks while holding transparent fibreglass anti-riot shields. "What about the police? They work for bad politicians!" the female leader said.

She then announced that 132 protesters had been arrested earlier in the morning as a result of the first clash at the nearby Makhawan Intersection, and that a few had been hospitalised. The air was tense, and when protesters began soaking their towels with water, it appeared that a second clash was imminent.

Soon the voice of another leader, this time a man, on the back of the same truck was heard saying: "Only listen to voices [from the truck]," he told hundreds of protesters on that side of the protest site, which held part of the estimated 30,000-strong crowd.

The leader then addressed police officers on the other side of the divide: "You are unjustly enforcing the law," he said, in reference to the imposition of the Internal Security Act (ISA).

A senior police officer answered through a megaphone. The officer asked protesters to move back and not confront officers, adding that they were just doing their duties.

But his plea fell on deaf ears; the same protest leader retorted that protesters were carrying out their duty as well, and ordered his men to march forward.

Protesters then initiated the clash, many pushing and kicking the police shields, with some throwing fist-sized rocks and others hurling home-made fireworks. One protester pepper-sprayed a police officer in the front row. Hell broke loose as police hit back with batons and about half a dozen tear gas canisters were fired, sending everyone without gas masks, myself included, running away from the suffocating and acidic bite of the gas, which engulfed the intersection within seconds.

I ran westward, toward Wang Daeng Intersection, along with many police , who had no gas masks, trying to wash their faces with bottled water.

Nine hundred police officers were guarding Wang Daeng Intersection, preventing any protesters from entering. One of the commanders, Pol Colonel Prasert Siriphanpiwat, wasn't in a good mood as he told The Nation that officers were merely trying to maintain law and order under the ISA.

"Look and judge it for yourself," he said, traces of tear gas still in the air and on our faces, some 100 metres from the clash site. "Is this the democratic way? Is it right? Clearly they are thugs."

As he spoke, reinforcements of anti-riot police marched passed us towards the intersection, the air still somewhat filled with traces of tear gas. A police loudspeaker tried to boost their morale by playing police songs and told its officers that they would show protesters what they are capable of.

Prasert said that under the Internal Security Act, the entrances and exits to the protest site were restricted and police would defend their line to protect Government House, with force if necessary.

At dusk, Pitak Siam, which at its inception called for a military coup, abruptly called off the rally, which partly turned violent. I sensed that this would be just the beginning of an attempt to remove the Yingluck Shinawatra government through a coup, or through whatever means and at whatever cost to Thailand.

-- The Nation 2012-11-25

[nurofiend]

so, it took one whole day for this peaceful rally to turn violent.

[JurgenG]

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

[Bluespunk]

Hmm, all sounds a bit trite to me. Not saying this story is a lie, after all every other demo seems to involve attacking some one or other, but this version seems a bit too convenient for the police. On the other hand PS are a bunch of right wing nutters so anything is possible.

[rubl]

A bit of overkill the number of police versus protesters. Also the routing of protesters seems a bit strange. Doesn't crowd control recommend using the shortest routes to get people to/from a rally site ?

Anyway 'clearly these were thugs'. Probably correct. So now waiting for the 'but the majority of protesters was peaceful'

[Thailand]

It looks like the gov have at least one witness in Pravit Rojanaphruk who can identify the man and the woman on the truck who were inciting violence.Hopefully they will be banged up if found guilty.

As for the numbers of police.Organisers were expecting well over 100K protesters and I guess the police prepared accordingly.

[Credo]

A bit of overkill the number of police versus protesters. Also the routing of protesters seems a bit strange. Doesn't crowd control recommend using the shortest routes to get people to/from a rally site ?

Anyway 'clearly these were thugs'. Probably correct. So now waiting for the 'but the majority of protesters was peaceful'

The routing of protesters may have been designed to protect certain areas, rather than for the convenience of the protesters.

[ttelise]

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

He'll still say there is no proof and that this is a llie spread by Yingluck's cousin on Facebook. He will also say pictures are photoshopped and the peaceful protesters were simply throwing home made fireworks back to the Black shirt ninjas mixed in with the red scarf cops.

Oh, and then he'll just point out how the red shirts did this and did that back in 2010 and that Yingluck is Thaksin's puppet.

[Bluespunk]

Sure I've seen that picture before or at least one very similar, maybe the flags were a different colour but still………now when was that?

[ttelise]

A bit of overkill the number of police versus protesters. Also the routing of protesters seems a bit strange. Doesn't crowd control recommend using the shortest routes to get people to/from a rally site ?

Anyway 'clearly these were thugs'. Probably correct. So now waiting for the 'but the majority of protesters was peaceful'

Peaceful protesters would not be a part of an agenda predicated upon violence and removing Yingluck no matter what the costs or once they heard the kill Yingluck stuff they would have split if they had any integrity.

Saying the number of police is overkill is just more playing victim card bs again. Given the threats against the PM, the valid concerns of violence and the request for a coup they needed to be out in full force. National security was at stake and better to have too many than not enough. If they lost control of that situation, they might not have been able to regain control until it was too late. Criticizing number of cops as being too many given what was at stake is truly beyond comprehension.

Edited November 25, 2012 by ttelise

[Familyonthemove]

I'm not a supporter of either side and wish they would unite for the sake of the Country .... but this report is a huge distortion. I spent the day at the site taking photos and it was 99.9% peaceful with a tiny bit of staged trouble. There were several people at the site entrances with loud hailers trying to inject a bit of drama (near the two news camera teams I saw) ..... but really, if you saw the age of most the people there you'd know this was never going to become violent on anything but a tiny/isolated scale.

It would be great if the press focussed on the few people on all sides who are trying to create drama for thier own purposes, and reported on them as individuals and stopped trying to make false claims about the 'masses'. I was in the middle of the Red Shirts (my office is in Chidlom) and it was the same thing .... 99.9% peaceful, concerned citizens being misled by a few.

I see the same polarization on this site ..... and it makes no sense to me. We're mostly foreign visitors here - why should we take sides in an artificail battle created by a few rish people for their own purposes?

Edited November 25, 2012 by Familyonthemove

[bendejo]

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

Looks like threatening bunch to me! Those shields and helmets the police have would be scant protection against the likes of them! That threatening guy up front with the glasses and khaki shirt is obviously the mastermind behind it all, glad I don't have to confront him!

The word is police riot, it means there was no riot until the police started it.

Looks like it's people with brains vs people without brains. Reminds of the recent elections in another country.

Edited November 25, 2012 by bendejo

[ttelise]

I'm not a supporter of either side and wish they would unite for the sake of the Country .... but this report is a huge distortion. I spent the day at the site taking photos and it was 99.9% peaceful with a tiny bit of staged trouble. There were several people at the site entrances with loud hailers trying to inject a bit of drama (near the two news camera teams I saw) ..... but really, if you saw the age of most the people there you'd know this was never going to become violent on anything but a tiny/isolated scale.

It would be great if the press focussed on the few people on all sides who are trying to create drama for thier own purposes, and reported on them as individuals and stopped trying to make false claims about the 'masses'. I was in the middle of the Red Shirts (my office is in Chidlom) and it was the same thing .... 99.9% peaceful, concerned citizens being misled by a few.

I see the same polarization on this site ..... and it makes no sense to me. We're mostly foreign visitors here - why should we take sides in an artificail battle created by a few rish people for their own purposes?

I am sure everyone reporting what it was like will gave different spin and agendas. The videos are probably about as objective as it gets and those show more than just a few people acting thuggish.

[Thai at Heart]

I'm not a supporter of either side and wish they would unite for the sake of the Country .... but this report is a huge distortion. I spent the day at the site taking photos and it was 99.9% peaceful with a tiny bit of staged trouble. There were several people at the site entrances with loud hailers trying to inject a bit of drama (near the two news camera teams I saw) ..... but really, if you saw the age of most the people there you'd know this was never going to become violent on anything but a tiny/isolated scale.

It would be great if the press focussed on the few people on all sides who are trying to create drama for thier own purposes, and reported on them as individuals and stopped trying to make false claims about the 'masses'. I was in the middle of the Red Shirts (my office is in Chidlom) and it was the same thing .... 99.9% peaceful, concerned citizens being misled by a few.

I see the same polarization on this site ..... and it makes no sense to me. We're mostly foreign visitors here - why should we take sides in an artificail battle created by a few rish people for their own purposes?

we shouldn't debate it, but you are free to attend the rally?

Rather bizarre hypocritical stance surely?

[asiawatcher]

Change the posts picture flags from yellow to red and it is the same all over again. Police fired first is the only difference. I watched some footage on police beating a man who retaliated by using (presumably) pepper spray - a very fair fight. Police brutality comes to mind. Moving on - what's next? Grand standing by the govt and Chalerm in the next 48 hours?

[culicine]

Opposition leaders take note - if you are in power, STOP the protesters from even letting them settle down; invoke ISA; reduce entry to the site to aggravate protesters; don't let in the children in so you can gas them hard and fast. They pack up and go home. Maybe a couple of years ago such a ploy would have worked. Obviously the current government didn't want a repeat of 2010 and dreaded a prolonged protest. I would say the protesters will regroup and see what they did wrong this time and will be back....there's never a dull moment in the Thai political scene.

[Moruya]

Change the posts picture flags from yellow to red and it is the same all over again. Police fired first is the only difference. I watched some footage on police beating a man who retaliated by using (presumably) pepper spray - a very fair fight. Police brutality comes to mind. Moving on - what's next? Grand standing by the govt and Chalerm in the next 48 hours?

The red shirts have started already with the 'we won' nonsense

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[sungod]

There should be no mob rule whatever the case/colour, that's for sure. There is hypocrisy and short memory on both sides.

However after witnessing the police force's total ineffectiveness in both 2009 and 2010 against the red shirts, yesterday I must say they were extremely effective and contained the crowd well. If they had actually done their job in 2009 and 2010 perhaps the army would not have had to be called on.

I think employing CS gas so early in the day yesterday was totally unnecessary, it was for sure a statement. They had the superior numbers, and were containing the situation very effectively without having to resort to it.

The police force are public servants, and as such work for all in the country. To see them as such an obvious political tool due to their selective policing is sad.

Edited November 25, 2012 by sungod

[Thai at Heart]

There should be no mob rule whatever the case/colour, that's for sure. There is hypocrisy and short memory on both sides.

However after witnessing the police force's total ineffectiveness in both 2009 and 2010 against the red shirts, yesterday I must say they were extremely effective. If they had actually done their job in 2009 and 2010 perhaps the army would not have had to be called on.

I think employing CS gas so early in the day yesterday was totally unnecessary, it was for sure a statement. They had the superior numbers, and were containing the situation very effectively without having to resort to it.

The police force are public servants, and as such work for all in the country. To see them as such an obvious political tool is sad.

Would you prefer that the police had run in and cracked the protesters with batons instead of tear gas?

Pitak supporters cur the wire and got toe to toe with the police. Indeed, batons would have been so much calmer huh?

[Pimay1]

It looks like Super Chalerm and his BIB captured the would be kidnappers of Yingluck before they could act on their dastardly deed. What a guy.

[Credo]

It's always easy to second guess the police action, but if there is one thing we have seen with rallies in Thailand is that it is not a good idea to wait too long.

[bushwacker]

Maybe if they keep this up for a while then we will get a much better exchange rate on the baht!

[sungod]

There should be no mob rule whatever the case/colour, that's for sure. There is hypocrisy and short memory on both sides.

However after witnessing the police force's total ineffectiveness in both 2009 and 2010 against the red shirts, yesterday I must say they were extremely effective. If they had actually done their job in 2009 and 2010 perhaps the army would not have had to be called on.

I think employing CS gas so early in the day yesterday was totally unnecessary, it was for sure a statement. They had the superior numbers, and were containing the situation very effectively without having to resort to it.

The police force are public servants, and as such work for all in the country. To see them as such an obvious political tool is sad.

Would you prefer that the police had run in and cracked the protesters with batons instead of tear gas?

Pitak supporters cur the wire and got toe to toe with the police. Indeed, batons would have been so much calmer huh?

Engage brain before mouth please, suggest you take your red tinted glasses off and reread the post, it was about selective policing.

BTW I was actually there, the police had far superior numbers and could of held them back with minimal fuss. I did actually comment on how effective they were.

Edited November 25, 2012 by sungod

[catmac]

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

He'll still say there is no proof and that this is a llie spread by Yingluck's cousin on Facebook. He will also say pictures are photoshopped and the peaceful protesters were simply throwing home made fireworks back to the Black shirt ninjas mixed in with the red scarf cops.

Oh, and then he'll just point out how the red shirts did this and did that back in 2010 and that Yingluck is Thaksin's puppet.

Glorious, ttelise, couldn't have put it better myself!

I also loved that line in the OP, " But his plea fell on deaf ears; the same protest leader retorted that protesters were carrying out their duty as well, and ordered his men to march forward". What fantasy world are PS's leaders living in?

Thankfully, Pitak Siam and its totally deranged leadership have been utterly routed and humiliated yesterday., by a combination of firm crowd control - but not Suthep-style butchery, and skilful government planning. The attendance of, at best, some 30,000 would disgrace a second rate football team, and to continue that analogy, they sure had more than their fair share of thugs and hooligans motivated by the certain prospect of a violent punch-up. What happened to the other 470,000 supporters ,or (as General Looney once glibly predicted an attendance of over 1 million!) the other 970,000? Don't tell me that nearly 1 million fanatical PS lovers are stuck in a traffic jam en route from Isaan.

[hellodolly]

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

What a thoughtless statement.

It was the protesters fault had nothing to do with the fact that they were protesting against the government.

The big question for some who are slow is why did the police send so many anti riot police to the demonstration and try to box them in to a small area with barb wire, They came prepared to provoke it.

Have they ever used any where near these tactics on the red shirt demonstrators. Of course not they did not want to turn them into violent situations.

It dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. First the Government whips up fear of violence by claiming plans to kill there leader then they discover plans to kidnap Yingluck and others.

Some times I wonder if other countries have the same low standard of education as Thailand their posts would indicate it.

[Nickymaster]

Aah now we have strict law enforcement AND over the top police action. Over a hundred arrests within a few hours after the rally kicked of. If the rally would have prolonged for let's say 2 weeks, how many people would have been arrested 10,000? 20,000? All?

Nobody sees any double standards here?

[jonclark]

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

Aww come on Jurgen you know that unfair... they were probably the third hand your buddy Chalerm was on about and had absolutely nothing to do with the genuine protesters. I believe you normally call then 'fake reds' or in this instance fake yellows.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander and all that.

My own view, just locals who wanted a scrap with the police cause they knew the police were up for it. Same in any major city in the world a small group will always go along just for a scrap and to kick of at the authorities at the slightest trigger.

[ttelise]

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

What a thoughtless statement.

It was the protesters fault had nothing to do with the fact that they were protesting against the government.

The big question for some who are slow is why did the police send so many anti riot police to the demonstration and try to box them in to a small area with barb wire, They came prepared to provoke it.

Have they ever used any where near these tactics on the red shirt demonstrators. Of course not they did not want to turn them into violent situations.

It dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. First the Government whips up fear of violence by claiming plans to kill there leader then they discover plans to kidnap Yingluck and others.

Some times I wonder if other countries have the same low standard of education as Thailand their posts would indicate it.

Haha, there he goes again with the barb wire made us do it excuse. Yep those protesters saw that barb wire and were driven to the brink of insanity causing them to get violent, cut the barb wire and charge the police. Yeah, I agree that if the cops did not bring the barb wire the protesters would have not felt the need to cut through it and charge the police.

Now the number of police present made the protesters act like thugs and try to incite violence. I agree that if there were only 10 cops there the protesters would have been in their best behaviour and would have never attempted to over run 10 cops.

So your lesson to the government is that you guys cannot have peaceful protests if there is barb wire present and a lot of cops there. You guys see barb wire and cops everywhere will lose it and act like thugs.

I am sure if they promise to act nice next time Yingluck will use paper machette barricades and assign the 10 hottest female traffic cops as the security.

Edited November 25, 2012 by ttelise

[15Peter20]

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

What a thoughtless statement.

It was the protesters fault had nothing to do with the fact that they were protesting against the government.

The big question for some who are slow is why did the police send so many anti riot police to the demonstration and try to box them in to a small area with barb wire, They came prepared to provoke it.

Have they ever used any where near these tactics on the red shirt demonstrators. Of course not they did not want to turn them into violent situations.

It dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. First the Government whips up fear of violence by claiming plans to kill there leader then they discover plans to kidnap Yingluck and others.

Some times I wonder if other countries have the same low standard of education as Thailand their posts would indicate it.

Haha, there he goes again with the barb wire made us do it excuse. Yep those protesters saw that barb wire and were driven to the brink of insanity causing them to get violent, cut the barb wire and charge the police. Yeah, I agree that if the cops did not bring the barb wire the protesters would have not felt the need to cut through it and charge the police.

Now the number of police present made the protesters act like thugs and try to incite violence. I agree that if there were only 10 cops there the protesters would have been in their best behaviour and would have never attempted to over run 10 cops.

So your lesson to the government is that you guys cannot have peaceful protests if there is barb wire present and a lot of cops there. You guys see barb wire and cops everywhere will lose it and act like thugs.

I am sure if they promise to act nice next time Yingluck will use paper machette barricades and assign the 10 hottest female traffic cops as the security.

Two days ago he was saying that any violence by yellow shirts was going to be red shirts in disguise. Now he's defending them. I'm confused.

[myfriendu]

What a nice picture for our friend Buscholtz who were asking yesterday if we had any proof that it was actually the protestors who were responsible for the violence during the demonstration.

What a thoughtless statement.

It was the protesters fault had nothing to do with the fact that they were protesting against the government.

The big question for some who are slow is why did the police send so many anti riot police to the demonstration and try to box them in to a small area with barb wire, They came prepared to provoke it.

Have they ever used any where near these tactics on the red shirt demonstrators. Of course not they did not want to turn them into violent situations.

It dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. First the Government whips up fear of violence by claiming plans to kill there leader then they discover plans to kidnap Yingluck and others.

Some times I wonder if other countries have the same low standard of education as Thailand their posts would indicate it.

Haha, there he goes again with the barb wire made us do it excuse. Yep those protesters saw that barb wire and were driven to the brink of insanity causing them to get violent, cut the barb wire and charge the police. Yeah, I agree that if the cops did not bring the barb wire the protesters would have not felt the need to cut through it and charge the police.

Now the number of police present made the protesters act like thugs and try to incite violence. I agree that if there were only 10 cops there the protesters would have been in their best behaviour and would have never attempted to over run 10 cops.

So your lesson to the government is that you guys cannot have peaceful protests if there is barb wire present and a lot of cops there. You guys see barb wire and cops everywhere will lose it and act like thugs.

I am sure if they promise to act nice next time Yingluck will use paper machette barricades and assign the 10 hottest female traffic cops as the security.

as always you miss the point,