Dual Pricing For Foreigners For Medical Care

[GuestHouse]

if you don't like dual pricing, complain.

There is the consumer protection agency, but there is also the ISO-standards organisation many businesses (and hospitals) like to show off. Dual pricing is probably against the ISO-standards and a complaint might lose them that certification. (But it is not the ISO that issue the certifications).

ISO standards (I presume you are referring to the quality management standards) will not help here - they simply require that if a policy or work process is in place that the organisation can demonstrate they follow and document their compliance to the work practices and procedures.

ISO might find that the hospital has a policy of charging foreigners extra, but failing to charge all foreigners extra.

[GuestHouse]

Isn't that why all embassies strongly recommend medical insurance for emergency & elective treatment. If you cannot afford medical insurance or do not have access to Thai Social Security, surely you should reconsider your long term stay in Thailand.

I recommend you commit this to memory, it might come in handy as helpful advice if ever you find you yourself are refused health insurance or treatment you need is not covered by the insurance you have.

Absolutely, that's why I also have reserved funds for medical treatment. I also have a Living Will, so that my financial assets to take care of my wife after my death, are not severely impacted by the practice of many hospitals to extend life purely for monetary reasons.

You presumably miss the point that where double charging exists the amount you save for your sick day needs to be that much more.

But I recognise your point for what it is - 'I'm all right Jack".

[simple1]

Isn't that why all embassies strongly recommend medical insurance for emergency & elective treatment. If you cannot afford medical insurance or do not have access to Thai Social Security, surely you should reconsider your long term stay in Thailand.

I recommend you commit this to memory, it might come in handy as helpful advice if ever you find you yourself are refused health insurance or treatment you need is not covered by the insurance you have.

Absolutely, that's why I also have reserved funds for medical treatment. I also have a Living Will, so that my financial assets to take care of my wife after my death, are not severely impacted by the practice of many hospitals to extend life purely for monetary reasons.

You presumably miss the point that where double charging exists the amount you save for your sick day needs to be that much more.

But I recognise your point for what it is - 'I'm all right Jack".

Again I do not understand why we are debating additional charging for foreigners accessing government funded hospitals when not complying to the same regulations as Thais.

However, I'm "all right jack" is only up to a point, I'm not wealthy - that's why the Living Will

Edited December 17, 2012 by simple1

[BigSkip]

Thanks for ALL the inputs............. Was not meant to start a sxxx storm, Thanks Again

[simple1]

You allowed to get Thai citizenship, if it bothers you.

If you want to remain as a tourist then the dual pricing is pretty fair IMHO.

Many farang do in fact pay more in taxes than millions of Thai (VAT). Even the cheapest farang still spends 2-3x what a minimum wage Thai worker will. Many of us are not tourists. Perhaps tens of thousands. Some even have Thai children.

This is just ignorant. In situations where govt resources are used, this may be warranted. In the private sector this is just an opportunity to gouge.

Could you imagine an export business trying to survive with this mentality?

Local prices is 100

Export price is 150

Exactly what I am talking about........ I went to Sattahip just to compare prices with the private hospitals, I am NOT a Cheap Charlie, just don't want to be ripped off, I do have insurance which covers 75%, I pay 25%. When the dam international rep. shows up and charges me 250,000b for a operation that is advertised on its website at 50,000b - 100,000b I get upset! This was not Sattahip

fair enough. Have you tried the "Red Cross" hospital in Sri Racha. Whilst it is a government hospital they do cater for foreigners and prices are reasonable

[BigSkip]

You allowed to get Thai citizenship, if it bothers you.

If you want to remain as a tourist then the dual pricing is pretty fair IMHO.

Many farang do in fact pay more in taxes than millions of Thai (VAT). Even the cheapest farang still spends 2-3x what a minimum wage Thai worker will. Many of us are not tourists. Perhaps tens of thousands. Some even have Thai children.

This is just ignorant. In situations where govt resources are used, this may be warranted. In the private sector this is just an opportunity to gouge.

Could you imagine an export business trying to survive with this mentality?

Local prices is 100

Export price is 150

Exactly what I am talking about........ I went to Sattahip just to compare prices with the private hospitals, I am NOT a Cheap Charlie, just don't want to be ripped off, I do have insurance which covers 75%, I pay 25%. When the dam international rep. shows up and charges me 250,000b for a operation that is advertised on its website at 50,000b - 100,000b I get upset! This was not Sattahip

fair enough. Have you tried the "Red Cross" hospital in Sri Racha. Whilst it is a government hospital they do cater for foreigners and prices are reasonable

wow, now thats a great reply.... thank you and I will go on thursday and report back, thanks again

[simple1]

Many farang do in fact pay more in taxes than millions of Thai (VAT). Even the cheapest farang still spends 2-3x what a minimum wage Thai worker will. Many of us are not tourists. Perhaps tens of thousands. Some even have Thai children.

This is just ignorant. In situations where govt resources are used, this may be warranted. In the private sector this is just an opportunity to gouge.

Could you imagine an export business trying to survive with this mentality?

Local prices is 100

Export price is 150

Exactly what I am talking about........ I went to Sattahip just to compare prices with the private hospitals, I am NOT a Cheap Charlie, just don't want to be ripped off, I do have insurance which covers 75%, I pay 25%. When the dam international rep. shows up and charges me 250,000b for a operation that is advertised on its website at 50,000b - 100,000b I get upset! This was not Sattahip

fair enough. Have you tried the "Red Cross" hospital in Sri Racha. Whilst it is a government hospital they do cater for foreigners and prices are reasonable

wow, now thats a great reply.... thank you and I will go on thursday and report back, thanks again

OK, recommend you get their early to register (7:30) as long waiting times; best if you take along a Thai. Doctors start seeing patients approx 9:00

[BigSkip]

ok...thanks again!

[Naam]

Isn't that why all embassies strongly recommend medical insurance for emergency & elective treatment. If you cannot afford medical insurance or do not have access to Thai Social Security, surely you should reconsider your long term stay in Thailand.

I recommend you commit this to memory, it might come in handy as helpful advice if ever you find you yourself are refused health insurance or treatment you need is not covered by the insurance you have.

if your insurance does not cover the treatment and you can't afford to pay from your pocket... that's tough luck but surely not a reason to blame local laws and regulations.

[Mario2008]

if you don't like dual pricing, complain.

There is the consumer protection agency, but there is also the ISO-standards organisation many businesses (and hospitals) like to show off. Dual pricing is probably against the ISO-standards and a complaint might lose them that certification. (But it is not the ISO that issue the certifications).

ISO standards (I presume you are referring to the quality management standards) will not help here - they simply require that if a policy or work process is in place that the organisation can demonstrate they follow and document their compliance to the work practices and procedures.

ISO might find that the hospital has a policy of charging foreigners extra, but failing to charge all foreigners extra.

ISO claims that

Standards also help support basic consumer protection (enshrined in the United Nations Guidelines for Consumer Protection) by helping to raise levels of quality, safety, reliability, efficiency and interchangeability.

http://www.iso.org/iso/home/about/iso-and-the-consumer.htm

[GuestHouse]

if your insurance does not cover the treatment and you can't afford to pay from your pocket... that's tough luck but surely not a reason to blame local laws and regulations.

Could you please give a reference to these Laws and Regulations relating to double charging for medical care, I'd like to read what yhey have to say.

[BigSkip]

Isn't that why all embassies strongly recommend medical insurance for emergency & elective treatment. If you cannot afford medical insurance or do not have access to Thai Social Security, surely you should reconsider your long term stay in Thailand.

I recommend you commit this to memory, it might come in handy as helpful advice if ever you find you yourself are refused health insurance or treatment you need is not covered by the insurance you have.

if your insurance does not cover the treatment and you can't afford to pay from your pocket... that's tough luck but surely not a reason to blame local laws and regulations.

Naam.. you need to get a life, I was looking for some help and info, didn't your mother ever teach you if you have nothing nice to say...say nothing

Edited December 18, 2012 by BigSkip

[Naam]

if your insurance does not cover the treatment and you can't afford to pay from your pocket... that's tough luck but surely not a reason to blame local laws and regulations.

Could you please give a reference to these Laws and Regulations relating to double charging for medical care, I'd like to read what yhey have to say.

it is not mandatory that regulations are fixed in writing and published. any hospital, shop, service company, bar girl can sell it's products or provide services at prices they deem fit. that is standard practice in other countries too and not limited to Thailand. and nobody cares whether you like it or not.

[Naam]

Naam.. you need to get a life, I was looking for some help and info, didn't your mother ever teach you if you have nothing nice to say...say nothing

i have a life and i had something to say. unfortunately i couldn't be of any help. but you need to change your views of life and accept reality (as i do). i was taken by an ambulance because of an emergency to a hospital in the U.S. of A. being a foreigner i had to wait 20 minutes till my European credit card company approved a provisional downpayment of 8,000 Dollars. a U.S. citizen would have been treated without any delay and without presenting any credit card.

[Jayman]

Naam.. you need to get a life, I was looking for some help and info, didn't your mother ever teach you if you have nothing nice to say...say nothing

i have a life and i had something to say. unfortunately i couldn't be of any help. but you need to change your views of life and accept reality (as i do). i was taken by an ambulance because of an emergency to a hospital in the U.S. of A. being a foreigner i had to wait 20 minutes till my European credit card company approved a provisional downpayment of 8,000 Dollars. a U.S. citizen would have been treated without any delay and without presenting any credit card.

But Americans still have no free or social health care. So the Americans might not of had to pay a deposit buy they are still on the hook for the same prices you were charged. It's easier for the hospitals to collect debt from locals than from foreigner that might up and leave the country without paying.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Jayman

[NBD]

Just avoid the places that do this. I've never knowingly paid "farang prices" for any privately run tourist attraction and I'm not about to start. I don't read Thai fluently but it's not that hard to spot when there's something a bit fishy going on.

The National Parks are a bit different because they're paid for out of taxation so it's sort of understandable that they give a discount for the effective "owners." Even Greece was still doing this with the Parthenon last time I visited. I would have thought the EU would have put a stop to that, but who knows? I have a work permit so I usually get Thai prices, if I can't I don't bother. If I was here on a two week holiday and really wanted to see Doi Inthanon (or any other dual priced NP) then I'd pay it, otherwise I wouldn't bother.

Sad thing is that they keep having these stupid campaigns to clean up such and such a place and attract more wholesome, family tourists, then they encourage and allow this sort of behaviour, what sort of tourists do you expect <deleted>?

[Sheryl]

Please keep it civil, folks.

Two tier pricing is unfortunately common in private hospitals here. Some actually have a 3 tier system, one for locals, one for resident expats and one for tourists.

Government hospitals usually do not charge foreigners any differentkly than locals (exceopt of course locals usually don't have to pay out of pocket, wehereas you would -- but at the establisherd rate). I have heard that Queen Sirikit Naval Hosp recently introduced a two tier system though, probably because of the large number of foreigners going there. You are nto likely to encounter this at a giovernment hospital tyhat rarely sees foreigners.

[simple1]

Please keep it civil, folks.

Two tier pricing is unfortunately common in private hospitals here. Some actually have a 3 tier system, one for locals, one for resident expats and one for tourists.

Government hospitals usually do not charge foreigners any differentkly than locals (exceopt of course locals usually don't have to pay out of pocket, wehereas you would -- but at the establisherd rate). I have heard that Queen Sirikit Naval Hosp recently introduced a two tier system though, probably because of the large number of foreigners going there. You are nto likely to encounter this at a giovernment hospital tyhat rarely sees foreigners.

Sheryl, thanks for your input. We were debating the OP's location Pattaya, Chon Buri. Excepting Bunglamung Hospital, that I have only visited with Thais, I do know that the local government hospitals do charge a different rate for foreigners. Local Thais try to avoid Bunglamung Hospital & Chon Buri Hospital.

[JSixpack]

No I think a retired navy Guy does deserve a break, I went there because I am in the same status.

Laughable. You didn't retire from the Thai navy. You have no reason whatsoever for thinking you "deserve a break."

I went there because I thought it would be cheaper than Samitivej Sir Racha.

And it was, much.

Welcome to the real world.

[Jayman]

Please keep it civil, folks.

Two tier pricing is unfortunately common in private hospitals here. Some actually have a 3 tier system, one for locals, one for resident expats and one for tourists.

Government hospitals usually do not charge foreigners any differentkly than locals (exceopt of course locals usually don't have to pay out of pocket, wehereas you would -- but at the establisherd rate). I have heard that Queen Sirikit Naval Hosp recently introduced a two tier system though, probably because of the large number of foreigners going there. You are nto likely to encounter this at a giovernment hospital tyhat rarely sees foreigners.

Sheryl, thanks for your input. We were debating the OP's location Pattaya, Chon Buri. Excepting Bunglamung Hospital, that I have only visited with Thais, I do know that the local government hospitals do charge a different rate for foreigners. Local Thais try to avoid Bunglamung Hospital & Chon Buri Hospital.

So that they are always so busy must mean non locals are filling up the spaces?

[lemoncake]

if your insurance does not cover the treatment and you can't afford to pay from your pocket... that's tough luck but surely not a reason to blame local laws and regulations.

Could you please give a reference to these Laws and Regulations relating to double charging for medical care, I'd like to read what yhey have to say.

it is not mandatory that regulations are fixed in writing and published. any hospital, shop, service company, bar girl can sell it's products or provide services at prices they deem fit. that is standard practice in other countries too and not limited to Thailand. and nobody cares whether you like it or not.

Really? Because not so long ago a 7-11 type shop owner was fined $300 000 in Sydney, Australia for dual charging the customers. Tourists were charged double.

Dual pricing is also against fair practices act which exist in most countries including uk

[BigSkip]

No I think a retired navy Guy does deserve a break, I went there because I am in the same status.

Laughable. You didn't retire from the Thai navy. You have no reason whatsoever for thinking you "deserve a break."

I went there because I thought it would be cheaper than Samitivej Sir Racha.

And it was, much.

Welcome to the real world.

wrong again....On 2 counts, first I was informed by a prior patient that they did give the same rate for all retired military, second the tests I need to run, 8 different tests cost 21,400b at Samitivej Sir Racha, but after the 50% hike it came to 20,020b at Sattihip. Please now be correctly informed.

Edited December 18, 2012 by BigSkip

[BigSkip]

Please keep it civil, folks.

Two tier pricing is unfortunately common in private hospitals here. Some actually have a 3 tier system, one for locals, one for resident expats and one for tourists.

Government hospitals usually do not charge foreigners any differentkly than locals (exceopt of course locals usually don't have to pay out of pocket, wehereas you would -- but at the establisherd rate). I have heard that Queen Sirikit Naval Hosp recently introduced a two tier system though, probably because of the large number of foreigners going there. You are nto likely to encounter this at a giovernment hospital tyhat rarely sees foreigners.

Sheryl, thanks for your input. We were debating the OP's location Pattaya, Chon Buri. Excepting Bunglamung Hospital, that I have only visited with Thais, I do know that the local government hospitals do charge a different rate for foreigners. Local Thais try to avoid Bunglamung Hospital & Chon Buri Hospital.

Yes I live in Chonburi City, Thanks for all the inputs again....

[uhuh]

Please keep it civil, folks.

Two tier pricing is unfortunately common in private hospitals here. Some actually have a 3 tier system, one for locals, one for resident expats and one for tourists.

Government hospitals usually do not charge foreigners any differentkly than locals (exceopt of course locals usually don't have to pay out of pocket, wehereas you would -- but at the establisherd rate). I have heard that Queen Sirikit Naval Hosp recently introduced a two tier system though, probably because of the large number of foreigners going there. You are nto likely to encounter this at a giovernment hospital tyhat rarely sees foreigners.

Actually, private hospitals in tourist destinations may have 4 tiers of prices:

- for Thais

- for resident foreigners

- for tourists

- for tourists who have insurance

The price for tourists, especially with insurance, in the leading international hospitals is usually higher than prices in Western Europe (for some specialized procedures up to 20 times higher) but still much less than in the US.

(Off course, in Western Europe hardly anybody pays for medical care out of pocket.)

Things get complicated because

- staff usually will treat all foreigners as tourists and may assume they have insurance. And staff will usually not admit that there are multiple layers of prices so you have no way to insist on the price for residents.

- doctor fees are completely up to the doctor, he may charge whatever he deems fit. He may even not charge you anything at all.

- medication for outpatients usually has one price for all (50%-500%higher than a pharmacy, off course)

The price for Thais or resident foreigners can be surprisingly low and may hardly be more (often less than double) than in a military hospital or a university hospital (see the example above).

[cheeryble]

Isn't that why all embassies strongly recommend medical insurance for emergency & elective treatment. If you cannot afford medical insurance or do not have access to Thai Social Security, surely you should reconsider your long term stay in Thailand.

I recommend you commit this to memory, it might come in handy as helpful advice if ever you find you yourself are refused health insurance or treatment you need is not covered by the insurance you have.

Not so fast!

I for one have decided to avoid all the disadvantages of medical insurance and self insure.

I believe it is the better option for many.

Want to know the disadvantages?

ps: I can state categorically that CM Ram does not dual price (that comes from the highest possible source, my wife, who works there).

Edited December 19, 2012 by cheeryble

[NancyL]

I've heard that CM Ram does apply a surcharge to a bill, though, if you're going to ask them to file it with a foreign insurance company. Somehting about the paperwork is never right for the foreign insurance company and they always create more work for the hospital. Don't know for sure -- maybe the previous poster, Cheeryble can verify if that rumor is true.

[JSixpack]

wrong again....On 2 counts, first I was informed by a prior patient that they did give the same rate for all retired military

It's ridiculous to think that a Thai military hospital is going to give discounts for members of foreign militaries. They should do that on what moral, legal, for financial basis? And the hospital didn't tell you that. So you think you "deserve a break" because some "patient" said so.

, second the tests I need to run, 8 different tests cost 21,400b at Samitivej Sir Racha, but after the 50% hike it came to 20,020b at Sattihip. Please now be correctly informed.

Let's have a listing of all the tests so prices can be checked.

[bangkokburning]

Just avoid the places that do this. I've never knowingly paid "farang prices" for any privately run tourist attraction and I'm not about to start. I don't read Thai fluently but it's not that hard to spot when there's something a bit fishy going on.

The National Parks are a bit different because they're paid for out of taxation so it's sort of understandable that they give a discount for the effective "owners." Even Greece was still doing this with the Parthenon last time I visited. I would have thought the EU would have put a stop to that, but who knows? I have a work permit so I usually get Thai prices, if I can't I don't bother. If I was here on a two week holiday and really wanted to see Doi Inthanon (or any other dual priced NP) then I'd pay it, otherwise I wouldn't bother.

Sad thing is that they keep having these stupid campaigns to clean up such and such a place and attract more wholesome, family tourists, then they encourage and allow this sort of behaviour, what sort of tourists do you expect <deleted>?

Actually, NPs are largely self supporting. In fact, when times were good I am sure money was siphoned off. Farang pay more because like everything else, they can

[harrry]

No I think a retired navy Guy does deserve a break, I went there because I am in the same status.

Laughable. You didn't retire from the Thai navy. You have no reason whatsoever for thinking you "deserve a break."

I went there because I thought it would be cheaper than Samitivej Sir Racha.

And it was, much.

Welcome to the real world.

Maybe as the hospital at Satahip was built and paid for by the US to support US troops in Vietnam and then given to the Thai Navy he does have some point.

[JSixpack]

No I think a retired navy Guy does deserve a break, I went there because I am in the same status.

Laughable. You didn't retire from the Thai navy. You have no reason whatsoever for thinking you "deserve a break."

I went there because I thought it would be cheaper than Samitivej Sir Racha.

And it was, much.

Welcome to the real world.

Maybe as the hospital at Satahip was built and paid for by the US to support US troops in Vietnam and then given to the Thai Navy he does have some point.

War's long over, pal. Nor did the hospital offer any such discount.