Quality Of Bikes Made In China

[VocalNeal]

I am pretty sure the el cheapo 69 baht garden tap I installed at our digs in the village was white metal. 6 months use and it's buggered! In the village our only option was to buy the better 99 baht tap. Hopefully we will get 12 months or more out of it.

The cheap ones in our workshop are thin chromed steel. What amuses me is that one cannot by the little ceramic valves if one starts to drip. The whole thing has to be purchased new. So much for reducing consumption and saving the planet!

The "white metal: one above is/was probably a thin zinc alloy casting. For outdoor taps there are plastic ones.

Edited December 30, 2012 by VocalNeal

[AllanB]

This raises an interesting point, and shows why all this "saving the planet" is such bullshit, these cheapo bikes are not built to last..

The tap problem is with the design, the ones they sell here (made in China) are "rotary shoe" valves, the older type (when we weren't trying to save the planet) were of "plug and seat" type, the seat being a replaceable rubber washer. The rotating shoe being an integral part of the tap, with a limited lifespan..

The theory is if the tap wears out, leaks and cannot be fixed it it may as well be made out of crap materials too. In the UK you can buy old taps made from brass that are 100 years old and still work perfectly, requiring a 1 baht rubber washer every 10 years.

The Chinese don't want things to last, if they do they won't be able to sell a replacement.

[NoshowJones]

about the cheaper, low tech bikes that are "Made in China" or that are made from parts coming from china.

Firstly the motorbike has been around for over 100 years and the technology has been around almost as long so the bikes manufactured in China use more or less the same technology. You are maybe correct that in China it is cheaper to have 100 guys stood at lathes rather than one CNC machine so there maybe some differences between the components but that is manufacturing technology, not motorbike technology. The bike manufactured in China are not necessarily lower tech they are simply of lower quality, maybe. This is a direct result of the lack of interested or attention to quality by the manufacturer. If they really cared they would have one process for local consumption and one for export quality.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK back to your intention:

Of which particular models do you speak? I wasn't aware that there are sub forums about specific Chinese bikes or specific bikes in general. Maybe you could include the names of the Chinese bikes you would like to hear about from people that own them.

Sorry if this is off topic, what about cars made in China? ie DFM.

[YipYipYa123]

about the cheaper, low tech bikes that are "Made in China" or that are made from parts coming from china.

Firstly the motorbike has been around for over 100 years and the technology has been around almost as long so the bikes manufactured in China use more or less the same technology. You are maybe correct that in China it is cheaper to have 100 guys stood at lathes rather than one CNC machine so there maybe some differences between the components but that is manufacturing technology, not motorbike technology. The bike manufactured in China are not necessarily lower tech they are simply of lower quality, maybe. This is a direct result of the lack of interested or attention to quality by the manufacturer. If they really cared they would have one process for local consumption and one for export quality.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK back to your intention:

Of which particular models do you speak? I wasn't aware that there are sub forums about specific Chinese bikes or specific bikes in general. Maybe you could include the names of the Chinese bikes you would like to hear about from people that own them.

Sorry if this is off topic, what about cars made in China? ie DFM.

Almost everything has been faked in china /asia ,its quite worrying that fake airbags are being counterfitted and even fake medicines

have made their way into western hospitals ......disturbing to read

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=FAKE+AUTO+PARTS+FROM+CHINA&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[wantan]

Yep, there are a lot of fakes in the world. Not every fake comes from china. And the bikes coming from china can hardly be described as "fakes" as they are sold under their own brand names. Most of them are equipped with low tech engines, copied from Japan bikes. And this is what most customers like on these cheap bikes (e.g. Lifan and Keeway). The only real complain i have on these cheap bikes is that most of them are still sold at a high price in Thailand. At the moment the only (street legal) chinese bike that can be called a bargain, considering quality and price, is the Lifan Cross. This is why people buy it. The price of the Keeway RKV200 with 60k baht is too close to the CBR150, even if the "overall build quality" of the RKV may be better than the Cross. For chinese bikes its mostly the price that attracts the people at the moment. If the price would be better, more people would buy them.

But back to topic. I doubt that all these cheap rusting watertaps are produced in china. I guess they are also produced in Thailand. I will have a look at my next visit at the hardware store

[BSJ]

I am pretty sure the el cheapo 69 baht garden tap I installed at our digs in the village was white metal. 6 months use and it's buggered! In the village our only option was to buy the better 99 baht tap. Hopefully we will get 12 months or more out of it.

What do you mean by "white metal" that is an alloy of tin and copper used for making bearings, typically engine main and big end bearings?

69 baht, what the hell do you expect, you Cheap Charlie

Something to last a few years, not 6 months. It's a simple ball valve. Probably aluminium. And 69 baht is a lot to pay for a simple tap made in China for 5 or 6 baht.

[edwinchester]

Bikes guys, ok? Bikes. Not taps....or front gates......bikes.

[wantan]

This raises an interesting point, and shows why all this "saving the planet" is such bullshit, these cheapo bikes are not built to last..

The tap problem is with the design, the ones they sell here (made in China) are "rotary shoe" valves, the older type (when we weren't trying to save the planet) were of "plug and seat" type, the seat being a replaceable rubber washer. The rotating shoe being an integral part of the tap, with a limited lifespan..

The theory is if the tap wears out, leaks and cannot be fixed it it may as well be made out of crap materials too. In the UK you can buy old taps made from brass that are 100 years old and still work perfectly, requiring a 1 baht rubber washer every 10 years.

The Chinese don't want things to last, if they do they won't be able to sell a replacement.

Most things are not build to last nowadays. Thats what keeps the economy running. Its not the chinese fault. Consumption is mainly pushed by western companies and shareholders.

I read an interesting text about how companies build in faults into their products so they brake down after a while. No company wants to sell products that last 25years any more. Has nothing to do with chinese, but with making money and with surviving on a "globalised market".

What about Apple? They build their phones without possibility to change the rechargeable battery. These phones are clearly "use 2years than throw away" products. And i doubt that in 20 years any service center will still have a diagnostic computer to service a fuel injected CBR150. So these bikes are made for throw away too.

[AllanB]

I am pretty sure the el cheapo 69 baht garden tap I installed at our digs in the village was white metal. 6 months use and it's buggered! In the village our only option was to buy the better 99 baht tap. Hopefully we will get 12 months or more out of it.

What do you mean by "white metal" that is an alloy of tin and copper used for making bearings, typically engine main and big end bearings?

69 baht, what the hell do you expect, you Cheap Charlie

Something to last a few years, not 6 months. It's a simple ball valve. Probably aluminium. And 69 baht is a lot to pay for a simple tap made in China for 5 or 6 baht.

Ball valves work in a similar manner to rotary shoe valves, they also have no replaceable seat.and I doubt if they are aluminium since lightness is not an issue, ally is not cheap material and is not good with water anyway. Brass or stainless is good but expensive.

There is quite a bit of steel in a tap, so 69 baht is not expensive made anywhere, with steel prices now high.

But getting back to the SM, I agree these cheapo bikes are not that cheap and when you can buy one of the worlds best bikes Honda CB150 for 83k, why would you not pay the little extra? You will eeeesily get it back when you sell.

It is just madness to think about anything else (road wise bike) in Thailand.

[taninthai]

This raises an interesting point, and shows why all this "saving the planet" is such bullshit, these cheapo bikes are not built to last..

The tap problem is with the design, the ones they sell here (made in China) are "rotary shoe" valves, the older type (when we weren't trying to save the planet) were of "plug and seat" type, the seat being a replaceable rubber washer. The rotating shoe being an integral part of the tap, with a limited lifespan..

The theory is if the tap wears out, leaks and cannot be fixed it it may as well be made out of crap materials too. In the UK you can buy old taps made from brass that are 100 years old and still work perfectly, requiring a 1 baht rubber washer every 10 years.

The Chinese don't want things to last, if they do they won't be able to sell a replacement.

Most things are not build to last nowadays. Thats what keeps the economy running. Its not the chinese fault. Consumption is mainly pushed by western companies and shareholders.

I read an interesting text about how companies build in faults into their products so they brake down after a while. No company wants to sell products that last 25years any more. Has nothing to do with chinese, but with making money and with surviving on a "globalised market".

What about Apple? They build their phones without possibility to change the rechargeable battery. These phones are clearly "use 2years than throw away" products. And i doubt that in 20 years any service center will still have a diagnostic computer to service a fuel injected CBR150. So these bikes are made for throw away too.

I don't want to lead thus thread even more of topic but what aload of rubbish I have changed batteries in iPhones and iPods without a problem 2 year throw away products my iPhone is three years old so how do you come to your conclusion wanton ,I was stupid enough to buy a iPhone copy once lasted 3 weeks ,which backs up mine and most other peoples views that stuff coming out of china is cheap crap that's a waste of money.

[AllanB]

This raises an interesting point, and shows why all this "saving the planet" is such bullshit, these cheapo bikes are not built to last..

The tap problem is with the design, the ones they sell here (made in China) are "rotary shoe" valves, the older type (when we weren't trying to save the planet) were of "plug and seat" type, the seat being a replaceable rubber washer. The rotating shoe being an integral part of the tap, with a limited lifespan..

The theory is if the tap wears out, leaks and cannot be fixed it it may as well be made out of crap materials too. In the UK you can buy old taps made from brass that are 100 years old and still work perfectly, requiring a 1 baht rubber washer every 10 years.

The Chinese don't want things to last, if they do they won't be able to sell a replacement.

Most things are not build to last nowadays. Thats what keeps the economy running. Its not the chinese fault. Consumption is mainly pushed by western companies and shareholders.

I read an interesting text about how companies build in faults into their products so they brake down after a while. No company wants to sell products that last 25years any more. Has nothing to do with chinese, but with making money and with surviving on a "globalised market".

What about Apple? They build their phones without possibility to change the rechargeable battery. These phones are clearly "use 2years than throw away" products. And i doubt that in 20 years any service center will still have a diagnostic computer to service a fuel injected CBR150. So these bikes are made for throw away too.

They have been building faults into products for years, which started in the USA and spread. It was based on the fact that the Yanks and now the rest of us, grow tired of things and just want to spend money.

Nowadays I think there is a growing conflict of interest between consumers and producers. I for one like old stuff and would give anything to get an old Triumph Bonneville, still one of the best bikes ever made. But I have to settle for old Phantom over here, since the bloody government won't let me import an old bike.

Maybe it is because I am old myself and like a tinker and hate the idea of spending 50,000 baht for something that may last ten minutes and consign it to the dustbin.

If governments were really concerned with green issues, forget recycling, make the dam_n things last longer, since manufacturing causes most of the pollution in the world.

I read somewhere that you could drive a normal family car for more than 250,000 miles and still do less damage to the environment than it does just building a Toyota Prius, let alone running one..

[dutchrdam]

I read somewhere that you could drive a normal family car for more than 250,000 miles and still do less damage to the environment than it does just building a Toyota Prius, let alone running one..

For more information, in the English language, look at this website from the BBC and the links to the Norwegian Univercity.

Also on the websites from Daimler Benz, BMW, BASF and Siemens are legio articles about more envirronmnal friendly producing.

Regards

[wantan]

Thaninthai

You are for sure a very special customer. Wish you much fun with your current iPhone in 5 years. But hey, maybe retro is in then, who knows

Edited December 31, 2012 by wantan

[LaoPo]

Mr.LoaPo, whether the Chinese learn fast or not is not the issue here. We are talking about today and today they are still at the infant school and I don't want to risk my life on a bike built by a 5 year old, when I can buy a used one made by an adult.

Than don't; your problem solved

[LaoPo]

Yes they have done a lot in 20 years, but they have in many sectors of industry, unfortunately neglected quality issues. That can feed through to bikes made in Thailand and other places which use Chinese parts.

I've heard that story many times, over and over again but they are mainly written by people who NEVER did any business themselves within China..

The problem of EXPORTED products with lower quality is a HUGE mistake created by the buyers themselves, NOT the Chinese manufacturer !

There are VERY sophisticated -western- quality checking agencies with own offices all around China, with specialists, checking every single product, whether it's a pair of jeans to computers.

But the western "cheapy" buyer refrains from good extensive quality control because they think it's too expensive and therefore they rely on "experience" and good relationship with the Chinese manufacturer.

I know for a fact that western buyers are screwing Chinese (but also other Asian manufacturers) manufacturers over and over again trying to bring the prices down and I could even name very famous brand names in the west, both American and European.

A Chinese manufacturer will not say NO very easily (culture) and tries to avoid lose of face but at the same time he wants the orders and thus tries to make or order a product which was not intended to make or part-of a product, resulting in lower than standard quality.

There are basically 2 kinds of western buyers in China:

* the ones who buy products, made by Chinese producers themselves, WITHOUT ordering/asking for quality control and hope for the best possible product; BIG MISTAKE!

* than you have the ones who order products, designed by the western buyers themselves complete with detailed quality descriptions. The latter can be divided in two groups:

A: the ones who have their own quality control inspectors (Chinese or Western) AT SITE controlling the products into every single detail day-in-day out. Result? QUALITY PRODUCTS!

B: the ones who do NOT have a quality control anymore but rely on their own design; WRONG

Maybe someone can remember the enormous scandal about toys, ordered by Mattel/USA which contained wrong substances in plastics and/or spareparts.

Mattel blamed the Chinese manufacturers but later it was admitted it was their own mistake by not putting quality control in place. That was even a greater scandal since Mattel had their own quality inspectors in China....not doing their jobs.

Edited December 31, 2012 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

There are still many poor people in China, but imo your assumption is false. All the countless chinese bike manufacturers are mainly producing for the local chinese market. They produce low tech, low quality for a very, very low price. And chinese people are their customers, because they can't afford something else. Now prosperity is rising, the middle class is growing. But most people are not rich. So they look for well priced cars and motorbikes. And the demand for quality is rising too

IMO you write many assumptions not based on any experience and I think you haven't even been to China but base your ideas on what you read or assume, not what you witnessed nor experienced.

I came to China for the first time more than 30 years ago and since we're talking "bikes" here (American for motorbikes I presume) I can tell you that I have seen few motorbikes during all my years in China since they're not there for several reasons I already explained. I've seen them in the countryside but not cities, only few.

I don't know where YOU have seen them (movies maybe?) but I have said already that motorbikes is a non-issue in China and I am talking about the scale "we" talk motorbikes in the western world.

I even don't know of any Chinese motorbike brand in Europe, nor the USA but they might be somewhere else but maybe you can name me a Chinese motorbike brand? To explain: I never owned a motorbike so I'm not a specialist in motorbike brands.

In the west: Electrical bicycles? yes, millions; Scooters, both motor and electrical ? yes, many thousands already and coming in at larger quantities in an improving quality and they will belong to the top in 5 years time.

IMO you may close the topic since there's nothing to talk about Chinese Motorbikes

Edited December 31, 2012 by LaoPo

[wantan]

IMO you may close the topic since there's nothing to talk about Chinese Motorbikes

OK, topic closed. I was wrong. There aren't any chinese motorbikes

Happy new year. For the chinese people too

[LaoPo]

IMO you may close the topic since there's nothing to talk about Chinese Motorbikes

OK, topic closed. I was wrong. There aren't any chinese motorbikes

Happy new year. For the chinese people too

Just for you: "I'm an easy rider" (don't pay any attention the the middle finger; it's Mr Johnny Cash's finger on the record ):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJVs2meMKIk

Edited January 2, 2013 by LaoPo

[Familyonthemove]

Couldn't we say the same things about bikes made in Thailand? Where the brand owner (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Triumph) has good quality control systems; the products are excellent. It's largely driven by brand values and the need to protect the global investment in the brand. (as LaoPo was saying)

The country of origin is less important than the efforts put in to maintain quality.

My SLR camera, my phone and my bike are all made in China - but I think their quality is a reflection of the brand and not the country. I've worked in China on quality/safety related areas and I've seen some poor processes and some really good ones. I think there's some trust and ethical issues in China (as in many other countries) but the country is clearly capable of producing quality goods (as well as some terrible ones).

[LaoPo]

Couldn't we say the same things about bikes made in Thailand? Where the brand owner (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Triumph) has good quality control systems; the products are excellent. It's largely driven by brand values and the need to protect the global investment in the brand. (as LaoPo was saying)

The country of origin is less important than the efforts put in to maintain quality.

My SLR camera, my phone and my bike are all made in China - but I think their quality is a reflection of the brand and not the country. I've worked in China on quality/safety related areas and I've seen some poor processes and some really good ones. I think there's some trust and ethical issues in China (as in many other countries) but the country is clearly capable of producing quality goods (as well as some terrible ones).

I agree.

The western press has been bashing upon China now for a long time. There IS a lot in China what deserve criticism, especially the "rulers" and sad/bad laws.

Apart from that we seem to forget that Asia was far far behind the western technology for many reasons but the aftermath of WWII and the Korean war made it happen that both South Korea and Japan could rise from their ashes, thanks to western capital and grew into super economical powers

Countries like China, Thailand, Indonesia had to do it mostly on their own. If one looks to other SE Asian countries like Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, Bangladesh it shows that some countries are still in the cradle of economy.

Now, comparing and bashing upon Asian countries is something frowned upon in those same countries since the people are very proud people and they have the right to be so!

We, westerners, always think WE know best, even for Asians.

Really?

In 20, 30 years Asian countries will laugh upon us because THEY hold the future with more than 60% of the World's population, not the west -anymore-

[BSJ]

As a foreigner buying from Chinese companies I would not neglect independent QC checks by 3rd parties I can trust. A 40 ft container of metal junk sitting at my warehouse in Australia would not make me happy.

[LaoPo]

As a foreigner buying from Chinese companies I would not neglect independent QC checks by 3rd parties I can trust. A 40 ft container of metal junk sitting at my warehouse in Australia would not make me happy.

Exactly!

BTW: Many consider China still as a third world country and that might be true for some distant places in the interior of China.

On the other hand not many realize that China is growing so fast that it is hard to cope with.

In 2013 China will overtake the European Car industry by producing more cars and light vehicles than Europe: 19,6 million vs 18,3 Million in Europe.

Another fact is that Europe, in 2001, produced 35% of worldwide cars versus 20% in 2013.

China, in 2000, produced a mere 3,5% of global car production; in 2013 it will be almost 24%

Everybody still bashing China will learn to keep quiet; your children and grandchildren will ask you, later in life: why were you so dumb NOT to invest in Asia...

If you can't beat them...better join them.

http://www.beijingne...-in-2013-Report

Edited January 2, 2013 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

Human Motorcycles...Body Painted Ladies

http://www.geekologi...nted-ladies.php

Edited January 2, 2013 by LaoPo

[wantan]

Found an interesting text in german language. Seems i am not the only one who thinks that chinese bikes will improve in near future (MOTORRAD is one of the biggest motorcycle magazines in Europe):

http://www.motorradonline.de/branche/blickpunkt-motorraeder-aus-china/379555

Some excerpts:

In year 2008 china produced 27,000,000 bikes (mostly small bikes up to 200cc). This was more than half of the yearly world production.

There are more than 130 chinese bike manufacturers.

Every year there are around 15,000,000 bikes sold in china.

Demand for quality bikes in china is rising as people there earn more money.

...

Seems i wasn't totally wrong with all my "assumptions not based on any experience". But we will have to wait and see what happens. Meanwhile i have to say that i also like the small low tech bikes coming from china. I wish the japs would still build such things: Simple and honest bikes for small budget

[poanoi]

The japs do build them, it is cheap to produce a scooter, then there is profit & taxes that quadruple the price

[AllanB]

As a foreigner buying from Chinese companies I would not neglect independent QC checks by 3rd parties I can trust. A 40 ft container of metal junk sitting at my warehouse in Australia would not make me happy.

Exactly!

BTW: Many consider China still as a third world country and that might be true for some distant places in the interior of China.

On the other hand not many realize that China is growing so fast that it is hard to cope with.

In 2013 China will overtake the European Car industry by producing more cars and light vehicles than Europe: 19,6 million vs 18,3 Million in Europe.

Another fact is that Europe, in 2001, produced 35% of worldwide cars versus 20% in 2013.

China, in 2000, produced a mere 3,5% of global car production; in 2013 it will be almost 24%

Everybody still bashing China will learn to keep quiet; your children and grandchildren will ask you, later in life: why were you so dumb NOT to invest in Asia...

If you can't beat them...better join them.

http://www.beijingne...-in-2013-Report

The issue here is that we are talking about today and a specific bike, which we no little about apart from what is visible.

It is true that we once slagged of Japanese and Taiwanese products and now we don't, that doesn't mean we were wrong to reject them, or that we feel stupid now that they produce good products, they just weren't ready then.

One day China may be known for quality products, on the other hand corruption may take over this huge country and their product quality remains patchy.

If you are in a desperate hurry to "join them", go ahead, but to me it makes no sense to risk my money and my life on a "pig-in-a-poke"

...and what do you have to gain in being the first to recognise an up and coming country, is China going to give you a medal? Are they going to refund your money, haver you not lived in Thailand long enough to realise the word "guarantee" does not appear in their vocabulary?

As to the statistics, they are meaningless too, with regards to this discussion, since when was quantity a sign of quality?/ Macdonalds are the world biggest supplier of burgers and they are still shit.

"Meanwhile i have to say that i also like the small low tech bikes coming from china. I wish the japs would still build such things: Simple and honest bikes for small budget " I have to say I agree with this..

Edited January 3, 2013 by AllanB

[BSJ]

My first motor bike I actually paid for and owned, as opposed to borrowing one of dads many rides (AJS/Ariel/BSA/Norton), was one of these:

I wonder where my last ride will be made?

[Familyonthemove]

Found an interesting text in german language. Seems i am not the only one who thinks that chinese bikes will improve in near future (MOTORRAD is one of the biggest motorcycle magazines in Europe):

http://www.motorrado...us-china/379555

Some excerpts:

In year 2008 china produced 27,000,000 bikes (mostly small bikes up to 200cc). This was more than half of the yearly world production.

There are more than 130 chinese bike manufacturers.

Every year there are around 15,000,000 bikes sold in china.

Demand for quality bikes in china is rising as people there earn more money.

...

Seems i wasn't totally wrong with all my "assumptions not based on any experience". But we will have to wait and see what happens. Meanwhile i have to say that i also like the small low tech bikes coming from china. I wish the japs would still build such things: Simple and honest bikes for small budget

I agree about simple, small capacity bikes .... that's why I bought the (Chinese built for export) RKV 200 - and it's not fallen apart yet! But I think the Indians do the best simple singles these days.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Familyonthemove

[wantan]

Talking about chinese quality is always a generalisation. There are small manufacturers, big ones, brands that sell only on the local chinese market, and brands that sell world wide. One reason why i expect more from the bigger manufacturers like Lifan or Keeway is that they sell many bikes all around the world. They sure have some sort of quality control. But even with these manufacturers there is still the problem of assembling, as most (all?) of these bikes come to Thailand in parts. And a proper assembling is important of course. But if the bikes aren't assembled by the manufacturer then there is a real risk something can go wrong. Many bikes were assembled from people sitting on the ground with some wrenches and a screwdriver. There is a risk that the completely assembled bike doesn't get checked at the end before selling it. The sad thing is that like this we never will know the real quality level chinese manufacturers are able to produce. And this makes the japs bikes superior in LOS at the moment because they come from the factory ready to ride. Put a battery in the bike and you are ready.

I hope these problems get solved and we get a real and fair competition. Its stupid to bring the bikes to Thailand in parts. They should leave the factory in one piece with a proper quality check and someone who is responsible for it.

Edited January 3, 2013 by wantan

[Familyonthemove]

Talking about chinese quality is always a generalisation. There are small manufacturers, big ones, brands that sell only on the local chinese market, and brands that sell world wide. One reason why i expect more from the bigger manufacturers like Lifan or Keeway is that they sell many bikes all around the world. They sure have some sort of quality control. But even with these manufacturers there is still the problem of assembling, as most (all?) of these bikes come to Thailand in parts. And a proper assembling is important of course. But if the bikes aren't assembled by the manufacturer then there is a real risk something can go wrong. Many bikes were assembled from people sitting on the ground with some wrenches and a screwdriver. There is a risk that the completely assembled bike doesn't get checked at the end before selling it. The sad thing is that like this we never will know the real quality level chinese manufacturers are able to produce. And this makes the japs bikes superior in LOS at the moment because they come from the factory ready to ride. Put a battery in the bike and you are ready.

I hope these problems get solved and we get a real and fair competition. Its stupid to bring the bikes to Thailand in parts. They should leave the factory in one piece with a proper quality check and someone who is responsible for it.

Good point ... my Keeway RKV seems to be decent build quality (so far), but I gave it my own 'post delivery check' and found that the front wheel clamp was only finger tight. The pre-delivery instructions for the dealer were still attached to the bike - so I could see that the only thing the local dealer had to do was attach the front wheel.

But part of the brand (and customer) protection systems should really include training for the dealers.

I think part of the issue with Chinese products is that Chinese businesses do not seem to understand the value of a brand, so don't feel the need to protect it. When Chinese manufacturers are building for big global brands such as Apple, Audi, Sony, Panasonic etc, then the Quality Systems are imposed on them by the brand owners. Without this pressure the quality can drop .... and in the worst cases deliberate fraud and adulteration takes place (Melamine in milk for example).