23-Year-Old Briton Shot Dead At Countdown Party On Haad Rin Beach: Koh Phangan

[robsamui]

this may be the reference RIP. best to know the laws of the land

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries Amount # 1 South Africa: 31,918

# 2 Colombia: 21,898

# 3 Thailand: 20,032

# 4 United States: 9,369

# 5 Philippines: 7,708

# 6 Mexico: 2,606

# 7 Slovakia: 2,356

# 8 El Salvador: 1,441

# 9 Zimbabwe: 598

# 10 Peru: 442

Utterly misleading as this ranking is deaths per 100,000 people and not per country in total.

[Coca Cola]

Gun crimes everywhere. A friend of mine went into our local pub in the Uk and was talking about the amount of rodents he had breeding in his shed and gardens someone suggested shooting them, to which he stated a bit cruelly (IMHO) 'sounds like it could be a fun thing to do at the weekend' well anyway more drinking ensued and the request for .22 type pellet gun was put out.

Over the course of the following week nearly every time he visited the pub, there was a different shady character lurking about waiting to sell him something over than a (pee shooter) He said he was even offered a semi automatic weapon! to do the job, very telling of our times. Just goes to show you,

Jackanory.

[NeverSure]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

USA shootings to death = 32,000 (in 2011). Figures for Thailand indicate 550. (US Centre for Disease Control 2007)

Where did you get your figures from, or were you guessing?

R

ps - USA suicides by firearm = 50% higher than homicides.

pps OOPS! Shouvd have read ahead over the next 15 pages - looks like I'm not the only one in this direction!

No disrespect, but in a situation like this I wish people would use a believable link with every single claim. There are so many contrary claims made in this thread that it's hard to know what to believe. Also, the links often say whether it's per country or per capita and give other pertinent information such as shooting deaths vs stabbings, etc.

For instance, quoting the UK Guardian, there were about 8,600 gun murders in the US in 2011. That's a far cry from 32,000.

In fact, the US homicide rate is at a 50 year low, dropping by more than 50% in the last 20 years as guns and ammo sales soared and the number of gun owners soared along with it. Link That indicates that there may be no direct correlation between gun ownership numbers and gun murders.

I believe it must be something else, and I believe it is culture but no link, I can't prove that.

[robsamui]

When you're in someone else's country, it's best to keep a low profile and not argue with the locals. It's their country and as this incident shows, you really don't know who you're <deleted> with,

You have absolutely no idea of how or why he was shot!

A series of shots fired by a drunk Thai youth...............probably the Brits fault for walking into the bullet as happened in the Bangkok protests !

This is beginning to make me smile. Everyone's shouting 'check your facts' and then quoting from the UN or Wiki - but just hang on a moment . . .

This is Thailand.

Where does the UN (or any other body) collect its 'facts' from? (It's utterly impossible to find information on something as simple as the actual road deaths each year on Samui.)

The figures all come from 'official sources' ie the Thai government.

Firstly this is essentially a third-world country anyway, with no established way to collect information like this.

Secondly there is no concept of responsibility or accountability in Thailand.

Meaning that even if the government had access to accurate statistics, sure as hell they are not going to tell anyone the truth about this and will just make up a number they feel comfortable with.

R

[Beng]

In respect of law enforcement, Phangan is a decade behind Samui

[Arkady]

Gun crimes everywhere. A friend of mine went into our local pub in the Uk and was talking about the amount of rodents he had breeding in his shed and gardens someone suggested shooting them, to which he stated a bit cruelly (IMHO) 'sounds like it could be a fun thing to do at the weekend' well anyway more drinking ensued and the request for .22 type pellet gun was put out.

Over the course of the following week nearly every time he visited the pub, there was a different shady character lurking about waiting to sell him something over than a (pee shooter) He said he was even offered a semi automatic weapon! to do the job, very telling of our times. Just goes to show you,

Jackanory.

Interesting. On a recent visit to the UK I asked an old friend about the growing the incidence of illegal gun ownership and gun crime following the total ban on legal handgun ownership. He told me that you only need to ask around discretely in some of the more shady London pubs and you will be approached with offers of shooters for sale. I was a little sceptical about this at the time.

[Arkady]

It is true that the best explanation to suit the TAT and the government would be that he was accidentally killed while a Thai was trying to kill another Thai - almost like a traffic accident I suppose in their estimation. The prospect of being killed in crossfire between rival gangs cannot be considered a great incentive to tourism but it sounds better than farang tourists being hunted down and killed by Thai punks who just don't like farangs. Not a great choice but I believe that the police would go for that as the better of two evils if it is not very clear what happened and they think they can get away with it. On the other hand, if there are reliable witnesses the crossfire story may actually be true. Either way I don't think I will be visiting any of those night spots on Haad Rin.

Whether it is legal or not Thai police get away with stop and frisk tactics that would be the envy of most Western police forces and could easily arrest far more people carrying illegal guns than they do. However, the seem content to stand back and let gangs of armed thugs roam the country doing whatever they please.

[SteeleJoe]

It is true that the best explanation to suit the TAT and the government would be that he was accidentally killed while a Thai was trying to kill another Thai - almost like a traffic accident I suppose in their estimation. The prospect of being killed in crossfire between rival gangs cannot be considered a great incentive to tourism but it sounds better than farang tourists being hunted down and killed by Thai punks who just don't like farangs. Not a great choice but I believe that the police would go for that as the better of two evils if it is not very clear what happened and they think they can get away with it...

Seems like - despite a supposed witness on thsi thread and presumably a plethora elsewhere - you're working a bit hard to spin this (hunted down by Thais who don't like Farangs? really?) but I suppose it's possible. Then again, couldn't they come up with something better? Something that made it the Farang's fault?

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[Arkady]

It is true that the best explanation to suit the TAT and the government would be that he was accidentally killed while a Thai was trying to kill another Thai - almost like a traffic accident I suppose in their estimation. The prospect of being killed in crossfire between rival gangs cannot be considered a great incentive to tourism but it sounds better than farang tourists being hunted down and killed by Thai punks who just don't like farangs. Not a great choice but I believe that the police would go for that as the better of two evils if it is not very clear what happened and they think they can get away with it...

Seems like - despite a supposed witness on thsi thread and presumably a plethora elsewhere - you're working a bit hard to spin this (hunted down by Thais who don't like Farangs? really?) but I suppose it's possible. Then again, couldn't they come up with something better? Something that made it the Farang's fault?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Interesting that you cut out the last sentence of my paragraph to suit your point, "On the other hand, if there are reliable witnesses the crossfire story may actually be true."

Edited January 2, 2013 by Arkady

[MrBrightside]

advancebooking: "I would not be surprised if the English guy caused the initial problem against the Thai."

Absolutely amazing. An innocent young British guy gets shot dead while enjoying his new year party, but some of the lovely folk here on ThaiVisa still manage to find room for some good 'ol "Brit bashing".

I mean, you've seen a few fights started by "trouble making backpacker" types in the past, so it makes sense to blame any Westerner caught up in some trouble in the future, right? Your ability to infer future events from past ones is truly magical. Well done.

Perhaps the unfortunate English guy should have researched "Thai culture and what is offensive" before getting himself shot in the chest at a party. Yes, perhaps that would have saved him. Silly Brit.

[SteeleJoe]

Interesting that you cut out the last sentence of my paragraph to suit your point, "On the other hand, if there are reliable witnesses the crossfire story may actually be true."

I cut it off not to support a point but rather because it was extraneous to my point. I sincerely apologize if you think I was being less than honest or misrepresenting you and I fully acknowledge your tepid and grudging acknowledgment of the possibility that the story is true.

My post still stands exactly as it is

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[NanLaew]

The UK Daily Telegraph is reporting that he shooter has been arrested and will be charged with manslaughter. As far as I am aware, that classification doesn't exist in Thailand. Or maybe, because the shooter hit the wrong person who just happened to be a foreigner, then the charge isn't so serious?

Anyway, from the same tome comes this picture.

The bar on the right is where the English lad was fatally shot and the one on the left is where the Israeli got stabbed to death a few years back.

Edited January 2, 2013 by NanLaew

[Tropicalevo]

Always helps if you use the brain that god gave you and stay away from dangerous situations no matter where you go. I've been there 11 times and lived there for a few years and never was in a spot of trouble.

Certain places in Thailand have a reputation and if you visit them then you are going to be at risk. Where the Brit died is one such area.

I have lived here for many years now and have always kept out of trouble but tell me all you wannabe Thais who visit here and never ever have anything go wrong.

What happens ( as did to me) you are driving back from a nice afternoon on the beach when a yabaed up taxi driver overtakes you on a blind bend nearly wipes out abike swerves in front of me and nearly takes me off the road.

I did what you naturally do in any civerlised country I instinctivly sounded my horn to stop him hitting my truck.

What did he do he pulled up in front of me jumped out pulled open my door and started punching me in the face.

Later that night I heard from friends he and 5 scum thugs were going around the local bars warning them if they saw me in there they would kill me and burn the bar down.

So tell me me what are you supposed to do?Tell the police thats a joke the taxi mafai rule the police.

Your average Thai male are immature children in an adult body who think and do get away with most things as they are bought up like little spoilt brats.

Best give them a wide berth and have nothing at all to do with them.

and you think that road rage does not exist anywhere else?

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate experience, but this is NOT a Thai thing.

I left the UK in 1993 to come to Thailand. I was threatened a few times in the UK - in similar cases to your self. I have not been threatened since I arrived in Thailand

In what sense is it "NOT a Thai thing"? It (allegedly) happened in Thailand and a Thai was the culprit. Do you mean this sort of unwarranted aggression or violent behavior is not Thai? Perhaps you could be more clear...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Sure - road rage is an EVERYWHERE thing. Not specific to Thailand. Most of the human race that sits behind a wheel of a car gets it at some stage. Luckily most contain the anger.

Getting into a fight after drinking too much beer beer or taking drugs is also not a Thai thing - lots of people do it in lots of countries.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Tropicalevo

[catmac]

Story now on front news page of BBC........http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20883483.

[SteeleJoe]

Story now on front news page of BBC........http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20883483.

Story now on front news page of BBC........http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20883483.

OK, thanks. So you meant to say it is not an exclusively Thai thing (which of course it is't) not that it wasn't something Thais do.

[evadgib]

From Sky News:

http://news.sky.com/story/1032373/thailand-killing-family-travel-to-identify-victim

[marstons]

Just my facts of 8 years living in Samui

2 Friends murdered 1 shot in the head street in Soi Reggae, his friend was shot 4 times in the chest but survived.

Witnessed with my own eyes A Thai shot in the head in Solo Bar

Was in Solo bar when a police security guy was shot dead

Thai on Thai murder in Fishermans village in front of all tourist.

Had a gun pointed at me and couple of friends by two drink immigration officers as we would not give them a drink after the bar was closed.

Was sat in a bar behind green mango (near GB) when a shoot out occured between 2 gangs and bullets hit the bar we were in.

Keep your head down as much as you like but it can be the wild west if you venture out down there.

[marstons]

The UK Daily Telegraph is reporting that he shooter has been arrested and will be charged with manslaughter. As far as I am aware, that classification doesn't exist in Thailand. Or maybe, because the shooter hit the wrong person who just happened to be a foreigner, then the charge isn't so serious?

Anyway, from the same tome comes this picture.

The bar on the right is where the English lad was fatally shot and the one on the left is where the Israeli got stabbed to death a few years back.

http://www.thestate.com/2013/01/01/2574823/british-man-killed-on-new-years.html#RSS=untracked USA newspaper report, Thai on Thai and Deceased caught in cross fire.

[webfact]

SURAT THANI

Thai man charged with murder of British holidaymaker

Photo : Ekkapun is escorted by police in Surat Thani Wednesday.//EPA

Full story:

[Nuna]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

It seems that many people are suffered from " I am better than others syndrome" need to read sth to get realized. I can't post the link but you can google "total crimes by country" for the full list. Here are the top 5 countries in committing crimes

1. USA 11,877,218

2. UK 6,523,706

3. Germany 6,507,394

4. France 3,771,850

5. Rissia 2,592,370

Oh..I forgot Thailand

20. Thailand 565,108

Edited January 2, 2013 by Nuna

[SteeleJoe]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

It seems that many people are suffered from " I am better than others syndrome" need to read sth to get realized. I can't post the link but you can google "total crimes by country" for the full list. Here are the top 5 countries in committing crimes

1. USA 11,877,218

2. UK 6,523,706

3. Germany 6,507,394

4. France 3,771,850

5. Rissia 2,592,370

Oh..I forgot Thailand

20. Thailand 565,108

1) Source?

2) "Crimes" is too broad to be useful, can you be more specific?

3) Have you taken into account relative population size?

[SteeleJoe]

Well, that wasn;t hard to find the source. Nationmaster AGAIN.

You can't post the link or you didn't want to because it's been arguably discredited several times?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

[marstons]

The year of Miracle Thailand.

Twice as many gun murders per year than the US and a population a quarter of the size.

It seems that many people are suffered from " I am better than others syndrome" need to read sth to get realized. I can't post the link but you can google "total crimes by country" for the full list. Here are the top 5 countries in committing crimes

1. USA 11,877,218

2. UK 6,523,706

3. Germany 6,507,394

4. France 3,771,850

5. Rissia 2,592,370

Oh..I forgot Thailand

20. Thailand 565,108

Murdered with fire arms UK 14 murdered fire arms Thailand over 20,000. Almost 55% in UK aquitted. 2.8% assault crimjes. personally i would sawp a car beak in any time opposed to being shot dead. But as always figures can be used to prove almost anything, example being top 5 have the most effective police forces at catching crimminals.

http://www.nationmas...me-total-crimes based on what you posted this was top of google list

Edited January 2, 2013 by marstons

[edwardandtubs]

"Crimes" must refer to reported crimes but as most crimes are not reported in Thailand, or if they are they are ignored by the police, the above "total crimes" statistics are worthless.

[JetsetBkk]

RIP

Why the TV fans dont wait for more news about any incidente instead of automaticaly jumping the gun???

The victim was at the wrong place in the wrong moment.

Because when the "TV fans" post stuff like "don't argue with the locals" and "you really don't know who you're <deleted> with", they sound so clever.

But wrong.

[SteeleJoe]

Nuna: If you want to accept Nationmaster as a source then you will have to accept other'

s claims that Thailand has more murders by firearm than the US.

[zaZa9]

The amount of young people I met over the years who have had their rooms emptied while they FM partying is astounding.

However it seems as if its just the cash nowadays.

[starcandle]

British man shot dead at Thai New Year beach party

BANGKOK, Jan 1, 2013 (AFP) - A 22-year-old British tourist was shot dead as he danced at a New Year party on one of Thailand's most famous islands after a fight between rival Thai gangs erupted on the beach, police said on Tuesday.

The holidaymaker was killed when a Thai man opened fire at a bar on the island of Koh Phangan in southern Thailand in the early hours of the morning.

"He was shot in the side while he was dancing on the beach," local policeman Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Noorod told AFP, adding the area had been packed with revellers during the evening's New Year celebrations.

Police believe the gunman was aiming at members of a rival gang.

Phangan is a resort island in the Gulf of Thailand neighbouring Koh Samui and draws thousands of backpackers to its famous full moon parties.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-01-01

Thank goodness someone has pointed out the clear story....

now all you knowalls can stop your rubbish about how to behave in Thailand... if the place scares you that much buy a one way ticket and go live in a bomb shelter.

[wjthornton]

gr8fldanielle quotes a shocking and alarming study, but the numbers don't make sense to me. You gotta be careful with data and go back to the original sources because it is easy to misread numbers. The following link has screen shots of the original UN Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) reports that seem more realistic. They still show Thailand very high in murders per capita, but nowhere near the top in absolute numbers:

http://asiancorrespo...-the-2006-coup/

In this study, Thailand had 3,307 murders in 2011, which is actually down from 2010. The rate per capita in 2011 is 4.8/100,000, which is down from 5.3/100,000 in 2010 and similar to the rate per capita for the USA. According to the UN numbers, violence is declining slightly in Thailand, even while it is being reported better. The relatively high murder rate in Thailand may have something to do with better reporting than countries that show lower rates based on the published numbers.

The UN doesn't even have figures for many countries. For example, in 2008, Burma had 4,800 murders and a much higher rate of 10.2/100,000 but no figures for 2009-2011.Without a free press, it is not going to be called murder when a poor person is killed by someone with political connections. There are probably innumerable ways those deaths get reported to avoid embarassing investigations. China reported only 13,410 murders, while India tops the list at over 42,923, but perhaps the Chinese government is better at managing embarassing data than the Indian government is.

.

[JetsetBkk]

gr8fldanielle quotes a shocking and alarming study, but the numbers don't make sense to me.

<snip>

That's because the Nationmaster statistics are wrong. Also the United Nations Survey has been wrong in past years in the "total number of intentional murders with a firearm".

Whoever drew up these statistics can't read Thai, screwed up and the wrong figures for "total murders with a firearm" have been copied, used and quoted ever since.

If you want to have a go at translating the original data from 2005, download the attached .pdf file.

cy48_total.pdf